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In regards to an 11 tear old knowing how to change file extensions, good for him. I still ask why does he have to do it in the first place and how exactly is that user friendly or beneficial for the average soccer mom?

Okay, I can agree with you on the point that MS shouldn't have set a Metro app as the default picture and video viewer for the desktop. For everything else, you're just hammering the same point over and over again, ignoring anything that doesn't perfectly conform to your idea of the perfect tablet.

First off, changing file associations is super easy. If you install any program that can open certain things, a big black box pops up in the middle of the screen with a list of applications after you first run it asking if you want to make it the default for this type of file.

Yeah, this might be a little convoluted for a soccer mom, but guess what? If she's using RT, it won't even matter. The only application that uses the desktop on it is Office, which as I said was stupid. For everything else, she'll be spending 100% of her time in Metro, using it about the same as she would iOS.

Lastly, the Surface crashed on a Microsoft exec while he was demoing the Surface, but according to you these things just don't happen.

God forbid beta hardware running beta software still half a year away from release messes up on someone.

Similar things have happened to Steve Jobs and crew during his keynote presentations in the past. Like laughing about a program crashing, or him making everyone shut down their phones so he could get the brand new, never before seen iPhone because he was having trouble getting it pick up a wifi signal.

These things happen, and don't speak of the final quality of the product itself.
 
Again you keep missing points and I hate having to break out one syllable words for you to understand. On the bank app, you picked one bank that has an app on MS store but most regional banks and credit unions aren't on there. Not really an issue on iOS. How is this relevant you ask? The apps add to the convenience and usefulness of a product.

In regards to an 11 tear old knowing how to change file extensions, good for him. I still ask why does he have to do it in the first place and how exactly is that user friendly or beneficial for the average soccer mom?

Lastly, the Surface crashed on a Microsoft exec while he was demoing the Surface, but according to you these things just don't happen.

Linky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxfZ5ejxTzY

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEJTRJY8KEQ

Please note that there were no third party devices plugged in.

Hahahaha! Cool guy. He's wearing trainers! But ummmm he's trying to pretend it didn't crash.

That's sooooo shoddy! :eek:
 
Again you keep missing points and I hate having to break out one syllable words for you to understand. On the bank app, you picked one bank that has an app on MS store but most regional banks and credit unions aren't on there. Not really an issue on iOS. How is this relevant you ask? The apps add to the convenience and usefulness of a product.

In regards to an 11 tear old knowing how to change file extensions, good for him. I still ask why does he have to do it in the first place and how exactly is that user friendly or beneficial for the average soccer mom?

Lastly, the Surface crashed on a Microsoft exec while he was demoing the Surface, but according to you these things just don't happen.

Linky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxfZ5ejxTzY

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEJTRJY8KEQ

Please note that there were no third party devices plugged in.

I still am not missing the point, and I'd hate to have to call my 11 year old cousin to explain this to you, probably in one syllable words as you say. Your issue with bank apps was that they don't exist on Metro, I demonstrated that I had none of the issues you made up of being on a web browser and BofA had a bank app. By the way, as an aside you do NOT have the browser issues on a windows tablet checking your bank account because it's a standard windows computer with internet explorer or firefox for example, so it's fully supported out of the box, so that was an odd comment in relation to this. I have found all the bank apps I need, BofA, TDAmeritrade for investments, etc. You still have IE11 in Metro to log on to the websites, as I mentioned this isn't an issue on a fully supported browser like IE11 with all the standards, flash, java, security, http, whatever the website requires. With time you will see more banks and such have apps, you are comparing a one year old OS, with less than a year old touch hardware to the ipad which has been out for a number of years, iOS has been out for what 6+ years. Once again not my point, I don't dispute the ipad has more apps, I don't dispute people in the iOS ecosystem won't want to stay there, you understand I'm not disputing these points right? Of course the apps add convenience and usefulness, no argument there, and it was never my argument. Although personally I don't see much difference in the web app for BofA and the Metro app, or the iOS app or the android app, but that's just me. I find I can do more on the web site anyway so I prefer that, one of the downfalls of our conversion to "apps" since the ipad.

As for the whole file extensions thing, you got me, I am convinced you are playing stupid just to troll me, because I find it hard to believe that someone can truly be just that. At least on windows tablet I can right swipe and access settings for that program, as opposed to iOS where I have to exit everything and go into a settings page for every single setting. If I want to change Safari settings I have to drill all the way down to those. But is it a big deal in iOS? No not really, same as in windows tablets. Your point is a complete NON point because you also have settings you have to mess with in iOS. If anything I'm very thankful that I can change file associations, I don't have that luxury in iOS. Want to use a browser besides Safari to open web pages automatically? Sorry you can't do that, that's a great example of exactly why the ability to easily change file associations is nice. But I was never arguing why that would be good for some and others might not care, I was only arguing about how hard it was to change them, which you exaggerated and made it seem like it was hard but in reality you were exaggerating, it's quite simple to change it.
 
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100% agree.

Also.

Always on, with no boot up time. Makes a big difference.

I think for those in the Apple sphere whom are at the cross roads of iPad and laptop can choose iPad/Air. So the decision is not difficult. It may fall either way but always falls the way of Apple.

If you're buying a Surface RT or PRO the decision is muddled. Truly muddled.

I think the Surface RT is set up the same way. It's always on all the time as well. Though the iPad does have a fairly slow boot up time when you actually turn it on. I've only done it three or four times since I got it, but it takes a good 30 seconds to go from the Apple logo to the springboard.

One thing I won't agree with you on is the Pro being muddled. For soccer moms, yeah. It's way overly complicated. But it's not a machine designed for them. It's a higher end tablet for people who want to use Photoshop, Manga Studio, full Office with all the trimmings and fixings, and whatever other higher end application they feel like using. There are advantages to using some of these programs on a tablet, specially the art and photo programs, where the stylus and direct screen interaction makes for a much smoother experience.

The art guy from Penny Arcade was practically drooling over his experiences with it.

Could it be better? Hell yeah, it could. If it had a much longer battery life, and an interface designed solely around touch like the iPad, it'd be a flat out awesome machine. I'd probably consider ditching my iPad for it. But as it, it's good for people who want a little more power out of their tablets. It does have plenty of kinks, but it's great for what it is.

The RT? It's a cluster****. A good idea marred by bad execution. If MS wants to take on the iPad, they have to pay attention to every little detail to make it as perfect and easy to use as possible. They've got the easy to use part right. Metro is pretty easy to use, and doesn't take long at all to get used to. But the low quality in house apps, them jamming the desktop in there just so they could say "OLOL OFFICE ON TABLET"...it's kinda half assed. It's not necessarily so screwed up it'll never be good, but MS didn't make a good first impression with it.
 
Okay, I can agree with you on the point that MS shouldn't have set a Metro app as the default picture and video viewer for the desktop. For everything else, you're just hammering the same point over and over again, ignoring anything that doesn't perfectly conform to your idea of the perfect tablet.

First off, changing file associations is super easy. If you install any program that can open certain things, a big black box pops up in the middle of the screen with a list of applications after you first run it asking if you want to make it the default for this type of file.

Yeah, this might be a little convoluted for a soccer mom, but guess what? If she's using RT, it won't even matter. The only application that uses the desktop on it is Office, which as I said was stupid. For everything else, she'll be spending 100% of her time in Metro, using it about the same as she would iOS.



God forbid beta hardware running beta software still half a year away from release messes up on someone.

Similar things have happened to Steve Jobs and crew during his keynote presentations in the past. Like laughing about a program crashing, or him making everyone shut down their phones so he could get the brand new, never before seen iPhone because he was having trouble getting it pick up a wifi signal.

These things happen, and don't speak of the final quality of the product itself.

The ipads are notorious for crashing when low on memory, just do a google search. I'm sure the ipad 4 is better, I haven't used one yet, but my ipad 3 and before crashed often. I wouldn't get a BSOD, usually the program would just force quit, especially Safari with more than 5 or 6 tabs. Once in a blue moon the entire ipad would freeze up though and would necessitate a forced reboot.

Honestly the worst culprit was web browsing. Besides the entire flash/java debate which I would rather avoid, web browsing on an ipad was quite painful. You would see checkerboarding on websites as you scrolled down, websites with graphics would load text first and several seconds later would load graphics, if you switched to another tab then switched back that tab would have to reload, etc. These aren't things that happened rarely, but things that were reproducible every time. And that's with the final quality of a publicly released product. That was just unacceptable to me. I prefer my windows tablet, I can have a good dozen tabs open, then open another window with several more tabs there, minimize that open up office, open up something else, etc etc, and go back and maximize IE11 and all the tabs are there and instantly switch to each with no reloading. Now THAT is web browsing.

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100% agree.

Also.

Always on, with no boot up time. Makes a big difference.

I think for those in the Apple sphere whom are at the cross roads of iPad and laptop can choose iPad/Air. So the decision is not difficult. It may fall either way but always falls the way of Apple.

If you're buying a Surface RT or PRO the decision is muddled. Truly muddled.

Windows tablets are instant on from sleep, same as the ipad. The cold boot times are also similar to an ipads cold boot.

I used an ipad/Air combo for a couple of years, I loved it because it was the only thing available at the time. But for me my windows tablet EASILY replaced that combo. I know you said you are entrenched in the Apple ecosystem, totally understandable why you wouldn't want to switch. But for me the option of carrying around 2 devices, and having a 3rd device as a desktop was too limiting versus ditching them all and having a single device.

As for surface RT and Pro, yah I can only agree, the decision is very much muddled, I think addled might be a better word lol, man MS really screwed that up.
 
I still am not missing the point, and I'd hate to have to call my 11 year old cousin to explain this to you, probably in one syllable words as you say. Your issue with bank apps was that they don't exist on Metro, I demonstrated that I had none of the issues you made up of being on a web browser and BofA had a bank app. By the way, as an aside you do NOT have the browser issues on a windows tablet checking your bank account because it's a standard windows computer with internet explorer or firefox for example, so it's fully supported out of the box, so that was an odd comment in relation to this. I have found all the bank apps I need, BofA, TDAmeritrade for investments, etc. You still have IE11 in Metro to log on to the websites, as I mentioned this isn't an issue on a fully supported browser like IE11 with all the standards, flash, java, security, http, whatever the website requires. With time you will see more banks and such have apps, you are comparing a one year old OS, with less than a year old touch hardware to the ipad which has been out for a number of years. Once again not my point, I don't dispute the ipad has more apps, I don't dispute people in the iOS ecosystem won't want to stay there, you understand I'm not disputing these points right? Of course the apps add convenience and usefulness, no argument there, and it was never my argument. Although personally I don't see much difference in the web app for BofA and the Metro app, or the iOS app or the android app, but that's just me. I find I can do more on the web site anyway so I prefer that, one of the downfalls of our conversion to "apps" since the ipad.

As for the whole file extensions thing, you got me, I am convinced you are playing stupid just to troll me, because I find it hard to believe that someone can truly be just that. At least on windows tablet I can right swipe and access settings for that program, as opposed to iOS where I have to exit everything and go into a settings page for every single setting. If I want to change Safari settings I have to drill all the way down to those. But is it a big deal in iOS? No not really, same as in windows tablets. Your point is a complete NON point because you also have settings you have to mess with in iOS. If anything I'm very thankful that I can change file associations, I don't have that luxury in iOS. Want to use a browser besides Safari to open web pages automatically? Sorry you can't do that, that's a great example of exactly why the ability to easily change file associations is nice. But I was never arguing why that would be good for some and others might not care, I was only arguing about how hard it was to change them, which you exaggerated and made it seem like it was hard but in reality you were exaggerating, it's quite simple to change it.

On file extensions, even your boy Renz conceded on that point, but you are finding it difficult to understand? In iOS, I can install numerous photo managements tools, camera tools, and all will open the photos. Yes, I have to grant access but not one app will hijack the files for themselves. Simple, user friendly, efficient, and convenient.


On bank apps, basically I was saying that since the Surface will not have many bank apps in the store, they will require you going through the web browser. IMO, the app is the easier of the two most of the time because I just want to get in and get info or make a transfer. Couple of taps and I'm off and running.
 
The ipads are notorious for crashing when low on memory, just do a google search. I'm sure the ipad 4 is better, I haven't used one yet, but my ipad 3 and before crashed often. I wouldn't get a BSOD, usually the program would just force quit, especially Safari with more than 5 or 6 tabs. Once in a blue moon the entire ipad would freeze up though and would necessitate a forced reboot.

Honestly the worst culprit was web browsing. Besides the entire flash/java debate which I would rather avoid, web browsing on an ipad was quite painful. You would see checkerboarding on websites as you scrolled down, websites with graphics would load text first and several seconds later would load graphics, if you switched to another tab then switched back that tab would have to reload, etc. These aren't things that happened rarely, but things that were reproducible every time. And that's with the final quality of a publicly released product.

I've never had my iPad flat out crash on me. I have seen it freeze up for a good 20 seconds though, and have had tons upon tons of apps crap out and bounce me back to the springboard for no apparent reason.

I love it when people talk about their iOS experience being perfect and blemish free, hence why they prefer it over Android. It's nice, sure. It's usually pretty smooth and easy to work with. But it can get unpredictably goofy on you sometimes.

Like scrolling through a webpage, only to suddenly start flinging my finger against the screen in vain because it won't move down. Or hitting the search bar in Safari, and...nothing. So I hit it again. Nothing. So I start jabbing my finger at it and...AH! THERE WE GO! Or typing in iMessages and getting cursor lag for some odd reason. Or placing a picture into my document in Pages only to suddenly figure out I ain't in pages no mo.

I'm not gonna say it's crap, because it's not. But it's also not 100% perfect 100% of the time.

Though I haven't ever run out of memory. That might be because I always close my apps when I'm done with them, though.
 
On file extensions, even your boy Renz conceded on that point, but you are finding it difficult to understand? In iOS, I can install numerous photo managements tools, camera tools, and all will open the photos. Yes, I have to grant access but not one app will hijack the files for themselves. Simple, user friendly, efficient, and convenient.


On bank apps, basically I was saying that since the Surface will not have many bank apps in the store, they will require you going through the web browser. IMO, the app is the easier of the two most of the time because I just want to get in and get info or make a transfer. Couple of taps and I'm off and running.

File associations are "simple, user friendly, efficient, and convenient" on a windows tablet as well.

As for web apps, well we can disagree on that because the web app is more powerful and allows me to better handle my banking, but that's ok nothing wrong with you preferring the app and me preferring the website, that's why I never understood what the big deal was or what you were defending.
 
On file extensions, even your boy Renz conceded on that point, but you are finding it difficult to understand? In iOS, I can install numerous photo managements tools, camera tools, and all will open the photos. Yes, I have to grant access but not one app will hijack the files for themselves. Simple, user friendly, efficient, and convenient.

A new photo viewer won't hijack an app extension either. It'll ask if you want to use it as the default, and if you hit "continue using...blar", it won't.

Also, your point only stands when comparing the Pro to the iPad, which is full and proper Windows. RT routes everything through Photo Viewer same as iOS uses Photos.
 
A new photo viewer won't hijack an app extension either. It'll ask if you want to use it as the default, and if you hit "continue using...blar", it won't.

Also, your point only stands when comparing the Pro to the iPad, which is full and proper Windows. RT routes everything through Photo Viewer same as iOS uses Photos.

It's almost that time for me to go back in lurk mode.

I am in no way saying that the iPad or iOS are the perfect products. I'm only saying they are the best products in their class IMHO.
 
Apparently this would be too difficult for some...

Oh and you mentioned IE11, isn't that only on Windows 8.1 beta right now? Did you cheat when you posted screenshots of the Alabama Tide? Makes one wonder. :)

Take care. See you on the next Microsoft thread at the same time and on the same bat channel!
 
Oh and you mentioned IE11, isn't that only on Windows 8.1 beta right now? Did you cheat when you posted screenshots of the Alabama Tide? Makes one wonder. :)

Take care. See you on the next Microsoft thread at the same time and on the same bat channel!

Screenshot was from my tablet on 8.1, but I made sure and checked on my desktop that is on 8.0 and the function is exactly the same in windows 8.0. :D:D It's all good, maybe when 8.1 becomes official you will give a windows tablet another shot.
 
Wait, I was agreeing with you, iOS is NOT a toy OS. Like I said, when can we throw away all the Windows and OSx laptops and desktops in the world and replace them ALL with iOS?

I'll stick to my troll and idiot "accusations". In general I like sarcasm a lot, it just fails miserably when you're clutching at straws.

Yours,
Fish.
 
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[/COLOR]

Windows tablets are instant on from sleep, same as the ipad. The cold boot times are also similar to an ipads cold boot.

I used an ipad/Air combo for a couple of years, I loved it because it was the only thing available at the time. But for me my windows tablet EASILY replaced that combo. I know you said you are entrenched in the Apple ecosystem, totally understandable why you wouldn't want to switch. But for me the option of carrying around 2 devices, and having a 3rd device as a desktop was too limiting versus ditching them all and having a single device.

As for surface RT and Pro, yah I can only agree, the decision is very much muddled, I think addled might be a better word lol, man MS really screwed that up.

Exactly.

This is not Coke vs. Pepsi whereby the a selection to the other has no loss to the customer.

Switching platforms either way is a lot of hurt in migration.

The ship has sailed on the number one tablet platform.

MS need to dream up something new if they want to take charge otherwise they'll be a bit player in the market.

:apple:
 
I'll stick to my troll and idiot "accusations". In general I like sarcasm a lot, it just fails miserably when you're clutching at straws.

Yours,
Fish.

Kind of sad that an interesting discussion degrades into you calling someone an idiot for their opinion. I'll resist bringing myself down to your level of immaturity and lack of class.

As for your lack of humor and sense of sarcasm, yeah I was being sarcastic. But in my sarcasm was my point, if iOS is a real OS then why don't we replace the OS' that we use on desktops and laptops with iOS?

Keep it classy as usual...

----------

Exactly.

This is not Coke vs. Pepsi whereby the a selection to the other has no loss to the customer.

Switching platforms either way is a lot of hurt in migration.

The ship has sailed on the number one tablet platform.

MS need to dream up something new if they want to take charge otherwise they'll be a bit player in the market.

:apple:

No arguments there, MS has an extremely uphill battle now that Apple is so entrenched. But we said the same about Google just a few short years ago. The market can always be surprising and no one ever truly knows what the near future holds, especially in technology.
 
The only thing I see that killed the surface was the pricing. It just wasn't worth what they were charging. It was young, as was their app store, and they haven't yet proven if they will provide a good OS upgrade path like Apple did or let it stagnate like most Android tablets.

Having an RT device, in my opinion, was a good idea, but the execution was sub-par.

Try again with the Surface RT 2, lower the price and market the hell out of your growing app store and you MIGHT redeem yourself, MS.
 
The only thing I see that killed the surface was the pricing. It just wasn't worth what they were charging. It was young, as was their app store, and they haven't yet proven if they will provide a good OS upgrade path like Apple did or let it stagnate like most Android tablets.

Having an RT device, in my opinion, was a good idea, but the execution was sub-par.

Try again with the Surface RT 2, lower the price and market the hell out of your growing app store and you MIGHT redeem yourself, MS.

The problem is more than pricing. The OS eats up too much of the memory. The device turning off is a pain. The updates take too long. The camera on the rear is terrible. There are no apps. I had both the ASUS RT tab and the Surface and returned both for the iPad.
 
...if iOS is a real OS then why don't we replace the OS' that we use on desktops and laptops with iOS?

One thing that Steve nailed is that you use a desktop and a tablet very differently, even if you're performing a similar function.

It's why tablets never went anywhere before the iPad came along.

And don't even get me started on desktops with a touchscreen. :rolleyes:
 
One thing that Steve nailed is that you use a desktop and a tablet very differently, even if you're performing a similar function.

It's why tablets never went anywhere before the iPad came along.

And don't even get me started on desktops with a touchscreen. :rolleyes:

Finally. I wondered why nobody bothered to remember that.

Microsoft has been in the tablet-business waaay longer than Apple, and never got anywhere, eventually dismissing it as something that the public has no interest in.

They got that right. The public has no interest in MS tablets. :cool:

Steve Jobs acknowledged Apple had prototypes of touch-screen iMacs with adjustable angles et al. They dismissed that as being impractical.

Perhaps that is the one area where W8 could finally shine. I would love to have a full-size multi-touch display coupled to a Xeon workstation. This assuming that my apps will be recoded to take full advantage of multi-touch.
 
Finally. I wondered why nobody bothered to remember that.

Microsoft has been in the tablet-business waaay longer than Apple, and never got anywhere, eventually dismissing it as something that the public has no interest in.

They got that right. The public has no interest in MS tablets. :cool:

Steve Jobs acknowledged Apple had prototypes of touch-screen iMacs with adjustable angles et al. They dismissed that as being impractical.

Perhaps that is the one area where W8 could finally shine. I would love to have a full-size multi-touch display coupled to a Xeon workstation. This assuming that my apps will be recoded to take full advantage of multi-touch.

Before iphone there was Safari-Pad which was the prototype for both iPhone and iPad.

Windows tablets prior were bad. Low battery life, terrible input systems. How or why they chose to follow that same path is mystifying.

Jobs made SafariPad into the iPhone. He could see that inertia scrolling allowed the user to read an immense amount of data and detail on a small screen. That way key. Presenting a large desktop on a smaller screen was solved.

PocketPC anyone? :rolleyes:
 
Apparently this would be too difficult for some...

Also, the only Windows program that has consistently crashed my Atom-based Windows Tablet is iTunes for Windows. Crashes every time I try to play a movie to Apple TV. If I was into conspiracy theories I might wonder about that one. :)

Now I just need to figure out how to get my PS3 to play my movies from this tablet and I can uninstall iTunes altogether. :)

Cheers,
 
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