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I'm a gadget person and I buy a hell of a lot of portables. I was really interested in the Surface from a physical hardware point of view. I think it is shaped nice and it looks good.

But then we get to Windows 8 and it just falls flat, even with that built in kickstand. I would have purchased one if it ran iOS.
 
With the current price the only thing holding the Surface back is the OS. Once Windows 9 comes out and fixes the necessary flaws in Windows 8 it will be a stellar tablet.

Exactly what's been said about Windows itself since Vista. Wait till 7. Wait till 8. Now it's, wait till 9. If Microsoft didn't have Office. They'd be in a world of hurt worse than they already are.
 
I must have missed the news where Microsoft lost their 90% desktop OS dominance...

The issue is:

A) Ballmer had next to nothing to do with that 90% desktop OS dominance - it was in place long before he ran the company, and is still only in place because people aren't buying new computers (that much has been evident by sales from the last couple of years). So a large number of that 90% is businesses (using proprietary, old software or MS Office), and another large part is people on old machines, only using them for basic home stuff.

B) Since Ballmer took over, their market share has not increased in anything other than the Console Gaming market. Since he took over their mobile market has all but vanished, and they have had so many failed/flawed projects its not even funny any more.

C) Given we're now seeing a huge move to tablets as a main device, in 10 years time there is no way in hell MS will have any significant part of the tablet market if they keep going like this. The Desktop market really won't matter anymore. Sure, it will always exist as we all need a desktop computer at some point, but having a 90% dominance on a market with little growth or income means nothing if the entire market is shrinking.
 
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Exactly what's been said about Windows itself since Vista. Wait till 7. Wait till 8. Now it's, wait till 9. If Microsoft didn't have Office. They'd be in a world of hurt worse than they already are.

Windows 7 actually did fix most of the flaws of Vista and then went back to fix some of the decade-old problems of XP and earlier. I was impressed at what Microsoft did even though it was still not nearly as good as Mac OS X was at the time. I was also surprised that Microsoft's OS business didn't die during Vista, but I guess it revealed that a big chunk of their user base doesn't care and is fine still running XP.
 
Here is the problem.

IT IS WINDOWS.

Every single person I know has at least one major horror story using a windows computer. Why would they ever want to spend that much on a tablet version of it?


Pretty much that. The only reason you'd want Windows on a tablet is native MS office. And there's no metro version of it.


And they wonder why it tanked?

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Exactly what's been said about Windows itself since Vista. Wait till 7. Wait till 8. Now it's, wait till 9. If Microsoft didn't have Office. They'd be in a world of hurt worse than they already are.

That's been going on in general with Windows since v1.0

They did a tablet version of XP. It was crap too.

MS should just cut their losses and port office to iOS. That's what most people actually want WINDOWS for, not because it's windows so much. And office has always been the cash cow.

Also: they should work with Apple to enable Active Directory join of iPads to the corporate domain, along with some better MDM tools. That's the other thing corps want from a tablet that Windows could offer (which they REMOVED in the RT version)...
 
In the tablet market share, it's Android that is winning.

It's winning the world market share, but it's still possible to have a monopoly over certain groups and not have the biggest worldwide market share. Besides, it's hard to compare Android to Windows and iOS when a lot of the Android tablets are in a different class. If a company is happily making the most money even with not the most market share because of a totally dominant market share among certain groups and certain device types, it could stop trying as hard.
 
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That's been going on in general with Windows since v1.0

They did a tablet version of XP. It was crap too.

MS should just cut their losses and port office to iOS. That's what most people actually want WINDOWS for, not because it's windows so much. And office has always been the cash cow.

I was thinking that Microsoft could make a tablet with an OS that's a real mobile OS, not Windows, that has a minimalistic UX but can run virtually every Windows program. Dump Flash Player, Java, the whole kitchen sink in there. Give it all the hardware features like USB (which they already did). Make it work well with high-graphics games. Give up on all the social features and ecosystem stuff other than the Windows application compatibility. It doesn't even need side-by-side multitasking that badly. That seems like what would give them their best chance at taking Android's position because of the overwhelmingly large number of Windows programs.

Sure I wouldn't like it, but a lot of people would. It would be a pretty clunky tablet overall that can do anything you want it to if you really want it to. Get it running Age of Empires II or some other popular game well, and a lot of younger people would feel the urge to buy.
 
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Controversial but I think Microsoft need to rebrand. They've done so much harm to their brand with poor products over the years and with more and more people landing at Apple and Samsung's door and yet another poor product release.

Rebrand, think different :rolleyes: and approach things from a new angle. They obviously don't know what they want to achieve and that (apart from crap products) is the worst thing to affect a brand. If Microsoft don't know who they are, how can a consumer trust them and their products?

Apple did this with the Think Different campaign and many other companies have rebranded to great effect over the years. The time is now MS, if not its just going to be a long painful death. The only positive assets they seem to have are the XBox and Office (even though I think Office is terrible but its engrained in the industry unfortunately - once that comes loose they are in a lot of trouble).

Sony need to do the same, they seem to be clinging on to the Playstation.
 
People are saying the Surface is a good product, but it's still Windows!

After several years in Mac and Linux land, I have to say that this is actually a good thing. NOTHING beats Windows on the client side. No other platform offers that amount of applications and solutions. It doesn't matter what you want to do, there will be a software for that - especially when it comes to business needs, but this is also true for the most exotic niches. Neither the Mac nor Linux can say that for themselves.

On the server (including mainframes!), in embedded systems , appliances or custom-made systems, Linux absolutely rules. (FreeBSD would be the next best thing, but Linux has better hardware support.) Since Android is just another Linux distribution, Linux also is the dominant platform on mobile devices. The beauty of Linux lies in its extreme versatility and flexibility - and the fact that it is totally free and does not have any restrictions whatsoever.

Apple products occupy a consumer-oriented niche and are basically focused on entertainment content and nice visual appearance. OS X makes a decent Internet/web client, but it neither has the abundance of software that Windows has nor is it as versatile as Linux - it is too restricted and limited to be able to compete with Linux and its too expensive and does not have enough market share to attract all those niche developers that do not write web design or multimedia software. You know, there is a huge world beyond Facebook and iTunes. It's just that OS X plays absolutely no role there.

Where I live and work, the Surface Pro and other gadgets that run the Intel-version of Windows 8 are the only tablets or tablet-hybrids that could actually be useful - BECAUSE they run Windows and not some castrated tablet OS that can only run Angry Birds or some other consumer software.

Also, Windows 8 actually is a pleasure to use on the Surface Pro. You should try it sometime. Unlike the iPad or Android tablets, the Surface Pro is a BUSINESS device, designed to help people to get actual work done (and still let them consume their entertainment content). The device was created to highlight the strengths of Windows 8; on hardware like this, the new user interface of Windows 8 makes a lot of sense.

Rebrand, think different and approach things from a new angle. They obviously don't know what they want to achieve and that (apart from crap products) is the worst thing to affect a brand. If Microsoft don't know who they are, how can a consumer trust them and their products?

I think they are fully aware of the market shifts and they know exactly what they want and will eventually get there. Not one Microsoft product ever had an easy start, but if Microsoft is known for one thing, then it is their persistence. They don't give up easily, and the company has always worked the best when there was some serious competition.

Microsoft know that the times of the traditional client-server computing are over. The client has gone mobile and services are moving to "the cloud". Now what are they doing? They are turning their powerful backoffice/business products into cloud-based services and they are evolving their client into a product that converges the desktop, smartphones and tablets. And let's be clear here: They are the FIRST company that actually ships a product that uses the same user interface on a game console, a smartphone, a tablet, a notebook and a desktop. Canonical is the only other company that is also working on such a product - Ubuntu Touch - but Microsoft shipped first. Just like every 1.0 release, nothing is final and there still is a lot of work to be done. But they will get there eventually.

The goal of Ubuntu Touch and its reference hardware implementation, the Ubuntu Edge, is even more radical: The smartphone is also your desktop computer. Just plug it into a docking station and the OS will scale to the new form factor. THIS is where the journey is headed, and I find it amazing that only a small company seems to have really grasped this. Microsoft is close to this realization, but not there yet. And Apple is still stuck in the multiple device category world.
 
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Controversial but I think Microsoft need to rebrand. They've done so much harm to their brand with poor products over the years and with more and more people landing at Apple and Samsung's door and yet another poor product release.

All that Microsoft has is a lot of programs that run on Windows only, a lot of users who just want to stick with the same thing, and some fans. After a rebrand, some of those things might go down the drain. Without any prior reputation and control, Windows could have easily fallen to some Linux-based desktop OS with enough leadership, but that won't happen of course because basically nothing consumer-side is made for Linux.
 
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A product with both the hardware and software having an identity crisis... who is actually surprised that it failed
 
All that Microsoft has is a lot of programs that run on Windows only, a lot of users who just want to stick with the same thing, and some fans. After a rebrand, some of those things might go down the drain.

It's all already going down the drain. What they can do is move certain aspects under another brand, build it up successfully and then bring the older bits of software that were 'ok' under the newer more successful brand and consolidate everything. I think this is another flaw of Microsoft is that the corporation seems quite disjointed. I know I've just said to split things up a little but its kind of taking a step back to take two forward.
 
I'm a gadget person and I buy a hell of a lot of portables. I was really interested in the Surface from a physical hardware point of view. I think it is shaped nice and it looks good.

But then we get to Windows 8 and it just falls flat, even with that built in kickstand. I would have purchased one if it ran iOS.

I think the Surface Pro looks good, too. Nice technology. However, the biggest problem for me is that it is a 16:9 ratio and this limits the device's usability.

As a 16:9 display the height (and width when in Portrait orientation) is just too small and narrow. I want to view a lot of technical PDF books (Cisco, Microsoft, and VMware) and for that the Retina iPad is gob-smackingly perfect.

I think the Surface Pro is a little thick, and square at the edge. The Type Cover is also not good enough for serious typing. And, when you view Windows 8 desktop mode things are way too small - plus, 16:9 on a 10.6" display makes for a cramped experience. A useful display height can only really be achieved on a 16:9 device with a 13.3" size. Even then the ratio still puts a dampener on things. A 16:10 13.3" display would be much better I think. 13.3", the same weight and much slimmer than the 10.6" Surface Pro = much, much better.

Lets face it, what Microsoft needed was an Iconic product and the Surface just didn't hit that target.
 
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It's all already going down the drain. What they can do is move certain aspects under another brand, build it up successfully and then bring the older bits of software that were 'ok' under the newer more successful brand and consolidate everything. I think this is another flaw of Microsoft is that the corporation seems quite disjointed. I know I've just said to split things up a little but its kind of taking a step back to take two forward.

I don't know, their desktop OS market share is holding strong. I have to use Windows pretty often and always hate having to deal with it, but apparently, others are fine with it or don't see any other choice. The only problem for Microsoft is that PC sales are supposedly going to collapse, so they need to figure out how to keep selling to those 90% who have been using Windows.
 
I don't know, their desktop OS market share is holding strong. I have to use Windows pretty often and always hate having to deal with it, but apparently, others are fine with it. The only problem for Microsoft is that PC sales are supposedly going to collapse.

I know many staunch Windows people who moved over to Mac when Windows 8 came out. We would have tongue in cheek arguments about the merits of both systems :D but now they have all moved to Mac the office is a bit quieter with less banter hehe. I think that says a lot. Of course many will be happy with Windows and Microsofts work but they would be even happier with better products, don't you think?
 
Double-down on stupid.

Ballmer has absolutely no idea why the 1st-gen Surface isn't selling, so making a 2nd-gen is just plain stupid. It's a dart thrown at a dartboard by a blindfolded drunk -- he'll be lucky to hit the wall, let alone the board.

You don't know what he's planning for the second one. Giving up on tablets now would surely hurt Microsoft long-term because of a missed market and short-term because the investors are screaming about PCs dying. I think I know how they can be successful next time, not that I think they deserve it for all the nonsense they've pulled in the past.
 
I know many staunch Windows people who moved over to Mac when Windows 8 came out. We would have tongue in cheek arguments about the merits of both systems :D but now they have all moved to Mac the office is a bit quieter with less banter hehe. I think that says a lot. Of course many will be happy with Windows and Microsofts work but they would be even happier with better products, don't you think?

Depends, what are they using their office computers for? Anyone relying on Windows-only software, cheap computers, or surefire compatibility with other Windows computers is going to stay put with Windows... also anyone who doesn't feel like switching. Most people I know use Mac and have all switched from Windows, but sure enough, the Windows market share is holding steady above 90%.

More people use XP than do use 8, and Windows 7 has a pretty small lead over XP. Way more people use XP than do use OS X.
 
It does not look like a piece of garbage as do other tablets and my guess is that if it were marketed properly and seriously in a manner that reflected the quality of the hardware then it would probably have laid an OK platform for the next gen. It is the ludicrous and frivolous adverts that did them in, and it will be hard to recover from what was obviously a complete marketing cock up.
 
I've encountered two people with a Surface Pro. They said it was indeed expensive, but that their battery lasts long, the built-in stand is handy, the cover-keyboard is also nifty and they always use it as a dock and it works without too many hiccups.

Of course the RT version must be pure bs.
 
That's a shame. Whilst it's not something I'd get, a friend has one and it's quite incredible. I love that the keyboard is built into the cover and running native Windows apps on a tablet is great.
 
This is not a surprise but it's disappointing for one reason. Competition is good in this market it drives Apple and Google to produce better products. If surface was more successful it would actually benefit ios users.
 
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