Microsoft Takes on Apple's Entry-Level iPad With 10-inch 'Surface Go' Starting at $399

[Val-kyrie]

Windows S is going to hamstring this, given that you can only run apps from the windows app store. I see the word pentium in the description and I can't help but think in 2018, that means running really slow. I could be wrong, but I think the advantages of the iPad far outweigh what this offers

The advantage here for MS is hardware continuity. The key here is the underlying x86 architecture. The S mode is for the edu market while regular users can opt for the full Win 10 Home experience (without additional cost). Both have access to the same software, even if the hardware might restrict performance (but hardware affects performance on all platforms so the point is moot). This is clearly aimed at the edu market; the Surface Pro at users who need more processing power.

By contrast, the Apple's hardware runs on two different hardware platforms and does not run the same software. This will change somewhat with Mojave but there is more discontinuity in Apple's current lineup.

I realize, MS had advertised, but I do wonder how many consumers who aren't aware of this will stick with S because they think its more secure, and in some ways it is. The downside is you can't run all the apps out there.

I agree, but at least MS offers the option to turn off S mode and run all of the programs available on Windows.

.... MS was supposed to be doing away with the Windows S SKU. Now there’s just an S mode, which is kinda similar to MacOS’s gatekeeper mode, which denies non-registered applications from running or installing. You can still get around it with a few clicks.

This really is a harbinger of the death of the S SKU, but at least MS was able to discard (for now) the limitations of the S SKU while offering the benefits of the S mode for those who want it.

This is the RT disaster all over again.

This is totally different from the RT disaster. RT ran on ARM and was incompatible with regular Windows software. The Surface Go runs on x86 and is compatible with standard Windows software.

I find it interesting that MS is solidifying its product line around the x86 architecture after its failure with its ARM experiment while Apple is moving to ARM despite its success on x86. I just don't see this ending well for Apple (i.e. Macs) despite my preference for macOS.

 

[ragingfighter1]

Microsoft yesterday unveiled the 10-inch Surface Go, the company's smallest and lightest tablet computer to date. Priced at $399, the device is aimed at the same $500-and-under market as Apple's 9.7-inch iPad, which starts at $329.

Looks-wise, the Go is basically a smaller version of the $799 Surface Pro, including the integrated kickstand and a front-facing camera above the 1800 x 1200 resolution IPS touchscreen display.

On the right side of the Go is a magnetic Surface Connector port for charging and connecting to a desktop dock, one USB-C port, and a headphone jack, with a microSD card slot located underneath the hinge.

Inside, the Go features a fanless Kaby Lake dual-core Intel Pentium Gold processor, 4GB or 8GB RAM, and 64GB or 128GB solid-state storage. Microsoft claims the Go has up to 9 hours of battery life.

Weighing in at 1.15lbs, the Go is slightly heavier than Apple's iPad. Like the Surface Pro, the Go supports the $99 Surface Pen (Apple added Apple Pencil support to its $329 iPad in March.) and optional keyboard cover, which starts at $99 in black, with four color options costing $129. The optional Surface Mobile Mouse costs $35.

Off the shelf, Surface Go devices will run Windows 10 in "S mode", a streamlined version of Microsoft's desktop OS that only runs verified apps downloaded from the Windows Store, although customers can switch to the regular version of Windows 10 at no additional cost. For business customers, Microsoft is also offering a Surface Go with Windows 10 Pro installed for $449.

The $399 Surface Go ships August 2 in the U.S. and two dozen other markets, with Wi-Fi versions available initially and LTE versions to come later in the year.

Article Link: Microsoft Takes on Apple's Entry-Level iPad With 10-inch 'Surface Go' Starting at $399

[doublepost=1531232184][/doublepost]Once you factor in ram upgrades and accessories it’s no bargain. Then it’s packaged with windows s. Wouldn’t be a problem but their App Store isn’t up to par in my opinion. Doing and upgrade to windows pro kills the idea of competitive price point. Then not to mention that windows pro is will kill storage space. Not too impressed.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

The advantage here for MS is hardware continuity. The key here is the underlying x86 architecture. The S mode is for the edu market while regular users can opt for the full Win 10 Home experience (without additional cost). Both have access to the same software, even if the hardware might restrict performance (but hardware affects performance on all platforms so the point is moot). This is clearly aimed at the edu market; the Surface Pro at users who need more processing power.

By contrast, the Apple's hardware runs on two different hardware platforms and does not run the same software. This will change somewhat with Mojave but there is more discontinuity in Apple's current lineup.




I agree, but at least MS offers the option to turn off S mode and run all of the programs available on Windows.




This really is a harbinger of the death of the S SKU, but at least MS was able to discard (for now) the limitations of the S SKU while offering the benefits of the S mode for those who want it.




This is totally different from the RT disaster. RT ran on ARM and was incompatible with regular Windows software. The Surface Go runs on x86 and is compatible with standard Windows software.

I find it interesting that MS is solidifying its product line around the x86 architecture after its failure with its ARM experiment while Apple is moving to ARM despite its success on x86. I just don't see this ending well for Apple (i.e. Macs) despite my preference for macOS.

Where do you get that Apple is heading to ARM? The project to easily migrate iOS apps to Mac? That isn't the same thing as what MS tried with ARM at all. No, they are still Mac Apps.

The problem is that this thing has a Pentium. People will enable desktop apps and then complain they run terribly.

 

[ragingfighter1]

Microsoft yesterday unveiled the 10-inch Surface Go, the company's smallest and lightest tablet computer to date. Priced at $399, the device is aimed at the same $500-and-under market as Apple's 9.7-inch iPad, which starts at $329.

Looks-wise, the Go is basically a smaller version of the $799 Surface Pro, including the integrated kickstand and a front-facing camera above the 1800 x 1200 resolution IPS touchscreen display.

On the right side of the Go is a magnetic Surface Connector port for charging and connecting to a desktop dock, one USB-C port, and a headphone jack, with a microSD card slot located underneath the hinge.

Inside, the Go features a fanless Kaby Lake dual-core Intel Pentium Gold processor, 4GB or 8GB RAM, and 64GB or 128GB solid-state storage. Microsoft claims the Go has up to 9 hours of battery life.

Weighing in at 1.15lbs, the Go is slightly heavier than Apple's iPad. Like the Surface Pro, the Go supports the $99 Surface Pen (Apple added Apple Pencil support to its $329 iPad in March.) and optional keyboard cover, which starts at $99 in black, with four color options costing $129. The optional Surface Mobile Mouse costs $35.

Off the shelf, Surface Go devices will run Windows 10 in "S mode", a streamlined version of Microsoft's desktop OS that only runs verified apps downloaded from the Windows Store, although customers can switch to the regular version of Windows 10 at no additional cost. For business customers, Microsoft is also offering a Surface Go with Windows 10 Pro installed for $449.

The $399 Surface Go ships August 2 in the U.S. and two dozen other markets, with Wi-Fi versions available initially and LTE versions to come later in the year.

Article Link: Microsoft Takes on Apple's Entry-Level iPad With 10-inch 'Surface Go' Starting at $399

An iPad is a companion/ handoff device. You can do the small things on an iPad bills purchases etc. free up space on resource on your main rig. Hell you can edit 4K on an iPad. Though not with advanced programs still it can be done. Wonder what the Geekbench scores are for this device.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Apple keeps doing nothing great, but then Microsoft says, "you think you can stagnate better than us? Hold my beer!"

 

[bluespark]

I'm a big fan of the direction Microsoft has been taking, but I don't see any real advantage of this over iPad, unless someone needs a desktop operating system in their small tablet (which, admittedly, some might). The iPad to me seems like a cleaner, more polished, and more focused tablet, and it's still cheaper with keyboard.

 

[Rafterman]

Why do LTE versions of MS stuff always come later? If they want to fully compete with iPad, they need to offer an LTE version.

Also, they need to simplify how the Window versions are. Commercial Gos get Pro, and can be downgraded to S, but consumer versions get S, with the option to upgrade to Home. But not Pro? Why make it so limited and complicated?

MS always does this - takes a good idea and overcomplicates it.

PCMag had a first look review, and they said it performed pretty decently.

 

[genovelle]

So an iPad can do everything a MacBook running OS X can do and just as fast?

I understand there are people on here who use iPads as their primary computing device, but iPads are still an alternative to Mac’s, not a direct replacement.

Microsoft is finally trying to develop a class of devices that offer an alternative to a full-blown Windows PC instead of marketing these things as replacements.

To say that one of these devices should be able to do everything a Windows PC with an Intel Core i5 or Core i7 processor can do is simply an unfair comparison.

Microsoft has gain tremendous applause from techies and thier media for everything they have done...Zune and all, but they have yet to successfully sell any hardware devices in any real quantities. Each sells less in a year than the competing Apple device sell in its first week on the market. Apple had a spectacular fail like this with the Mac Cube. Interestingly if you listen to the tone of this site you would swear everything they make is over shadowed by their competitors and aren’t selling, but in reality they sell everything they schedule to produce.

 

[Rafterman]

I'm a big fan of the direction Microsoft has been taking, but I don't see any real advantage of this over iPad, unless someone needs a desktop operating system in their small tablet (which, admittedly, some might). The iPad to me seems like a cleaner, more polished, and more focused tablet, and it's still cheaper with keyboard.

True, but I never found a keyboard implementation for the iPad I truly liked. The Surface keyboards are awesome. Thin, light, backlit and feel like a decent keyboard.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

True, but I never found a keyboard implementation for the iPad I truly liked. The Surface keyboards are awesome. Thin, light, backlit and feel like a decent keyboard.

Man, I love my Logitech Create. I have written over 39K words on Scrivener for iOS on mine.
[doublepost=1531233369][/doublepost]

Personally, I refuse to buy anything Windows for home use. My employer uses Windows, but I would insist on at least a 13" screen (ideally bigger) for a work computer.

However, this is a neat little product. I'm interested to play around with it at a store, or to see if I can get a loaner through work. I know quite a few people that aren't "Apple people" but are looking for a new little and low-cost computer like this. On paper, it looks good enough to recommend, but I would have to see if it's good irl too.

I would try out that Pentium processor before I start recommending it to others. The Pentium has improved, but so have all the other chips.

 

[Abazigal]

Microsoft has gain tremendous applause from techies and thier media for everything they have done...Zune and all, but they have yet to successfully sell any hardware devices in any real quantities. Each sells less in a year than the competing Apple device sell in its first week on the market. Apple had a spectacular fail like this with the Mac Cube. Interestingly if you listen to the tone of this site you would swear everything they make is over shadowed by their competitors and aren’t selling, but in reality they sell everything they schedule to produce.

It’s almost as though techies are a minority whose opinions aren’t necessarily reflective of the tastes and preferences of the average consumer.

 

[bluespark]

True, but I never found a keyboard implementation for the iPad I truly liked. The Surface keyboards are awesome. Thin, light, backlit and feel like a decent keyboard.

Fair point. My all-time favorite iPad keyboard was the Belkin Qode Ultimate Pro for the iPad Air 2 (which was expensive and totally worth it), but they've never updated that line for the current iPads.

Interestingly, I'm about to buy a Lenovo ThinkPad for my first non-Mac laptop in more than a decade, and I made that decision because of the poor keyboards on the MacBook/MacBook Pro. Apple may have a real keyboard problem (but I still wouldn't choose this device over the comparably-priced iPad).

 

[Constable Odo]

They're saying this Surface Go will target the iPad but I would think Microsoft is really going after those low-cost Chromebooks which are capturing all of the educational markets. The iPad doesn't even come close to dominating schools like the Chromebooks are doing. I wonder how powerful this Surface Go is and will it meet the needs of users. The iPad doesn't run a desktop OS and A-series processors are quite powerful. I don't know much about Windows S but if they're allowing people to upgrade to Windows 10 for free, will the Surface Go have a problem running it on such a low-powered device. I'm surprised Microsoft is still interested in selling this type of hardware when it seems to be doing so well with its cloud and software subscription businesses.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Microsoft has gain tremendous applause from techies and thier media for everything they have done...Zune and all, but they have yet to successfully sell any hardware devices in any real quantities. Each sells less in a year than the competing Apple device sell in its first week on the market. Apple had a spectacular fail like this with the Mac Cube. Interestingly if you listen to the tone of this site you would swear everything they make is over shadowed by their competitors and aren’t selling, but in reality they sell everything they schedule to produce.

It is not Microsoft's goal to compete with Apple (or any of their OEM's) with hardware. On the contrary, that would just hurt them. The Surface line is just a halo product to get rid of the 'cheapo' Windows PC image from yesteryear and to show possible design possibilities to their OEM's. MS does not mind when there hardware is copied by OEM's, they encourage it.
Microsoft is not a hardware company. They make their money with selling software on other's hardware including Apple.
If you want to compare the Windows hardware sales to Apple, you have to compare the sales of all Windows PC's (including all the OEM's) to Apple. Doing otherwise is comparing apples to oranges.

 

[profets]

OS/Materials/Build Quality aside - I find it interesting that at the low end for PCs/Tablets it seems you end up with relatively poorly spec'd components. Lower speed SSD, slower Pentium CPU, etc.

Really interesting what Apple can do by controlling more and more of the hardware going into their products. The $329 iPad with A10 for example. Or just how much they can really tailor the OS & software features around the A series SoC.

 

[artfossil]

True, but I never found a keyboard implementation for the iPad I truly liked. The Surface keyboards are awesome. Thin, light, backlit and feel like a decent keyboard.

Have you tried the Logitech Easy-Switch keyboard? Thin, light, backlit, feels like a decent keyboard.

https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/illuminated-keyboard-for-mac-ipad-iphone?crid=1762

 

[mmomega]

no thanks. i'll wait until Microsoft figures out how to do Windows Updates properly.

ETA on that ?

 

[PBG4 Dude]

I'll never understand the hang up with LTE.
Not only should it be available day and date, there shouldn't even be different skus.
Just put a LTE chip in all devices. It's just another hardware antenna, right?
I'm guessing when Apple opened the door to charging $130 more for a $3 piece of hardware it made everyone take notice.

It's not the hardware that costs money, it's the licensing required to hook up to LTE. You have to pay Qualcomm, Nokia, and others for usage of their wireless communication patents.

 

[Constable Odo]

If it performs well, this could be a winner. Hopefully this lights a fire under Apple to up their game.

I doubt Apple lets any other company influence their product line-up. Apple likely sets a product road map and doesn't change it unless something really unusual take place. Why else would Apple take so long in updating its desktop products? Most computer companies can easily update their products internal hardware every year. Only Apple has a problem with that. Apparently, Apple desktop internal hardware must be quite different from other companies' designs. Apple is always trying to squeeze everything into a small of a package as possible and that must cause a lot of problems when using off-the-shelf-components. Maybe that's why every desktop computer update takes so long to do.

 

[convergent]

ETA on that ?

I've had a Surface Pro for a year and don't even notice the upgrades happening, so ETA was some time in the past.

 

[kylelerner]

You guys forgot to mention that its “SSD storage” is of the eMMC variety. Much, much worse than your traditional SATA SSD.

I think the specs are garbage. 4GB of RAM in 2018? Some Pentium CPU I’ve never heard of? eMMC storage? Small screen? No thanks - I could find better refurbs on Amazon...that come with a keyboard.

 

[chipb]

Guessing they sell at least 242 of these

 

[mmomega]

There's stuff wrong with Microsoft's system, certainly, but I find they require considerably less downtime than MacOS updates do for me.

And for myself, it is the opposite.
I only have around 60 machines to take care of and the Windows machines consistently require more attention.

Computers in general are the best and worst things ever.

 

[dwright1974]

I realize, MS had advertised, but I do wonder how many consumers who aren't aware of this will stick with S because they think its more secure, and in some ways it is. The downside is you can't run all the apps out there.

The first time you try and run a non-Windows Store installer it prompts you that you can upgrade to Home or Pro.

I think this may go down a storm in Education but for others I guess it depends on your use case.


For me, iPad is primarily for content consumption so I’m more than happy with it.

I’ve never used my iPad in anger for productivity so can’t comment if it truly is computer-like.

I do wonder how much effort Microsoft will now put in to their iOS apps now.

- D

PS - replying as I go so Paola if someone else has pointed out the 10 S -> Home / Pro upgrade option

EDIT: Correction to Windows 10 SKU options

 

[mi7chy]

I can’t believe they even own an iPad. It’s well known that this poster finds Apple products lacking.

No need to be petty. I've owned Apple products since the 80s so probably before you were born. Just because I've liked some products doesn't mean I have to shill for all of them.

And, to answer the other shill I tend to avoid selling it privately because I don't have time for flakes. It's easier to take care of disposing of the old item and getting the new item in one trip. Same reason Apple have trade-ins.