Microsoft Unveils Windows Phone 7 Handsets

[Mattie Num Nums]

This is very true. This is why when buying a car to get a feature like a sunroof for example, you have to buy a whole package rather than just add in the add-ins you want. Car manufacturers have long realized that if you offer too many choices, it confuses people, makes them want to go home and think about it, and next thign you know, they thought too much about it and found something entirely different (and not your product) to buy. You want them to buy when they are hot to buy the product, not confuse them into wanting to think about it.

Sure, you'll get customers who will think about it and decide, but we're talking general masses who is generally the market most companies are looking for cause that is how they'll get the most sales.

No. Its because not enough people want just a sunroof to justify them spending millions of dollars adjusting an assembly line. They basically group things most people would buy with the roof.

 

[tigress666]

No. Its because not enough people want just a sunroof to justify them spending millions of dollars adjusting an assembly line. They basically group things most people would buy with the roof.

No, I'm pretty sure offering too many choices has a part in it. I mean, what has whether they put power locks in my car really make it any cheaper for them to either not put a sunroof or put a sunroof (my car you couldn't get a sunroof unless you also got the power locks package)? Anyways, that's the explanation I got from a friend (who I will take his word over random internet person, I know his credentials and he's quite a knowledgeable guy who would know what wouldl convince people to do something... he's a lawyer).

And even if that analogy doesn't work, check out these articles that all explain that too many choices turns off a consumer. My original point still stands, it's not a good idea to have too many choices when you want to sell something (and the guy I responded to's point also stands quite well).

http://blog.mindvalleylabs.com/stop-offering-your-customers-too-many-choices/218/

This article talks about the study that the other articles mention:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/27/your-money/27shortcuts.html

This article touches on it a little as well (it is arguign for offering choices but if you read it it does mention you don't want to offer too many cause it will turn the consumer off):
http://ezinearticles.com/?Offering-Choices---A-Good-Marketing-Practice&id=941419

This article has two paragraphs mentioning the fact that yes, you can have too many choices:
http://raventools.com/blog/take-advantage-of-the-secret-art-of-persuasion/

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

No, I'm pretty sure offering too many choices has a part in it. I mean, what has whether they put power locks in my car really make it any cheaper for them to either not put a sunroof or put a sunroof (my car you couldn't get a sunroof unless you also got the power locks package)? Anyways, that's the explanation I got from a friend (who I will take his word over random internet person, I know his credentials and he's quite a knowledgeable guy who would know what wouldl convince people to do something... he's a lawyer).

And even if that analogy doesn't work, check out these articles that all explain that too many choices turns off a consumer. My original point still stands, it's not a good idea to have too many choices when you want to sell something (and the guy I responded to's point also stands quite well).

http://blog.mindvalleylabs.com/stop-offering-your-customers-too-many-choices/218/

This article talks about the study that the other articles mention:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/27/your-money/27shortcuts.html

This article touches on it a little as well (it is arguign for offering choices but if you read it it does mention you don't want to offer too many cause it will turn the consumer off):
http://ezinearticles.com/?Offering-Choices---A-Good-Marketing-Practice&id=941419

This article has two paragraphs mentioning the fact that yes, you can have too many choices:
http://raventools.com/blog/take-advantage-of-the-secret-art-of-persuasion/

In mass production your sunroof makes a difference because your car is already built and sitting on a lot. Unless you buy a BMW or another company that does customizing but even when you do that you get a LONG list of options. Trust me I owned a BMW that was custom ordered.

 

[pr5owner]

People still use WinMo 6.5?

are you joking? have you ever worked in a large corporation?

name 1 other phone that has the following out of the box (most companies arent going to get 20 apps just to get a simple job done)

- full exchange support (not the sad garbage apple and google put out with only calendar, contacts and email sync, im talking those 3 with sharepoint integration, text messaging sync, notes, tasks, everything)
- full office document support (not even bb has this, you cannot open, create, or edit office docs on any phone other than WM6.5, this includes word, excel, and ppt)
- VPN Support
- 3G video calling/conference support
- a FREAKING FILE BROWSER (neither apple nor android have this out of the box)
- 802.1x wifi authentication (neither apple or android does this correctly, but a 3 year old mobile os does)
- OBEX Support (business card exchange is included in this)

not corporate related but
- A2DP
- AVRCP
- Serial over BT (for things like GPS, OBDII automotive link, remote control)

you think WM6.5 is dead? have you looked on XDA developers? the site has 2.8 million users, and most of the phone threads are WM6.5m, im pretty sure those cooks have made well over half a million WM6.5 custom roms, in the last month ive flashed 4 different WM6.5 roms made that same month from 4 different cooks and i have the Sony Xperia X1, its not even a popular phone, the HD2, Touch pro 2, etc are WAY more commonly used.

WM has hundreds of THOUSANDS of applications written for it and this was before even the first iphone was released. its just that the iphone has it all in one place to make it easy to download which makes people think the iphone has the most apps.

what about all the symbol scanners, they all to my knowledge run wm5 or wm6.5 (delivery guys for both UPS and FedEx in canada always have the same symbol scanner when they scan and drop stuff off)

but in the end, i dont even give a rats ass who makes what, i just want

a qwerty keyboard
large screen WVGA and above (dont even care about multi touch)
non crippled bluetooth so i can send a damn file over it
office support (open and edit for the 20+ spread sheets i have on my microsd)
MicroSD support for SDHC (my card is 8GB so it has to be SDHC)
exchange support (including text sync and task sync)

what phone supports my needs? these needs arent over the top in anyway, they are pretty basic IMO, so far no new phone to come out will do anything near what i need it to do, except windows mobile.

 

[Jamie0003]

Coming up: Norton antivirus mobile!

 

[Glideslope]

Sickly

Ballmer looks very unhealthy IMO.

 

[pr5owner]

Coming up: Norton antivirus mobile!

security through obscurity, dont you people know?

according to the genius's on this site nobody will write a virus for something that only has 1% of the market share, norton antivirus mobile will come out on the iphone long before it does WP7 (since it commands 30+% market share)

 

[LagunaSol]

Seriously, Microsoft would have done well to get someone other than Uncle Fester to headline this keynote. Anyone. The guy is just painful. It was even more painful to watch him in the interview with Matt Lauer. The guy just can't take negative criticism. At all. So squirm-worthy.

There is no pre-requisite that you must own nothing but Apple hardware, or that you can only say good things about Apple.

The legitimate gripe many of us have is not that some people here say bad things about Apple. Not at all. The legitimate gripe many of us have is that some people here say nothing but bad things about Apple. Then they gripe about pro-Apple bias and the dreaded "Apple fanboy." On a Mac-oriented site. Rational logic would define this as trolling. Unfortunately, these incessant instigators are allowed to wreak their havoc unimpeded. Challenge them too vociferously and you end up in the timeout corner.

It's gone far beyond annoying.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Rational logic would define this as trolling. Unfortunately, these incessant instigators are allowed to wreak their havoc unimpeded. Challenge them too vociferously and you end up in the timeout corner.

It's gone far beyond annoying.

It goes both ways chief.

 

[LagunaSol]

Don't be so quick to judge, I mean Microsoft did make the xbox 360 which is a major hit with no viruses.

Yeah, that 40% hardware failure rate was a real grand slam.

The notification system is about as archaic as you can get at this point and the hardware is completely bloated compared to these WP7 phones.

While the iOS notification system does truly suck, I would love for you to explain how iPhone hardware is "bloated" compared to WP7. Please.

The UI is simple yet deep, the applications are as flashy as you can get at this point.

I think "flashy" is a good word to describe the WP7 UI. All sizzle, no steak. The text spillover is gratuitous hipsterism at its worst, complete fashion over function. The amount of panning and scrolling required is insane. The endless animations and screen transitions will get annoying within days. Wait and see.

Ya'll should be excited for what WP7 brings to the mobile space and how the other OS's will build off of it.

I'm never excited to see Microsoft get into any space as they are known to compete only through replication of competitors' work and exclusive deals/payola to get their products traction (Bing Cashback anyone?).

Apple is going to be in trouble if WP7 content explodes quickly. Because at this point content is about all the iPhone has.

WP7 content is only going to "explode" as long as Microsoft is writing the incentive checks. And I bet they've written a boatload of them to get this thing ready for launch. (Apparently they forgot to mail the check to Rovio though. Oops.)

 

[Avalontor]

Yeah, that 40% hardware failure rate was a real grand slam.

yet they have sold 66 million of them..

I guess if people want a product bad enough they will buy it regardless of rrod or proximity sensor issues.

 

[kernkraft]

When there's something actually worthwhile beyond Apple I'll let you know.

Right now, the competition is hardly impressive, and most of them are trying desperately to out-Apple Apple.

Take Microstupid, for example. Apple has fraction of their employees and a fraction of their R&D budget, but look at what's happening. MS can barely get their core business right, never mind pushing out and pinching off a mobile platform people will actually care about. These are the same clowns that actually thought it was a good idea to bring the Kin to the market not even a year ago. You think you can trust them with anything else remotely to do with mobile over the long term?

Microsoft could have unveiled the perfect smartphone OS, that doesn't omit Cut-Copy-Paste or Multitasking or Tethering (when everyone else has them by now) and that is wholly original and doesn't infringe on others' IP, and they would still be nearly 4 years late to the game. It's superfluous to the market. They can try to force their way in with $500 million in marketing and, if successful, damage the other iPhone wannabes, but, like all of the other also-rans, they have not even come close to equalling iOS much less accomplished the tremendous feat of leapfrogging iOS, which is what Microsoft needed to do in order to make up for being so woefully late to the game.

With Android already full steam ahead and RIM still well in the game, being "just good enough" is far from enough. Being just another selection at this stage in the game while bringing nothing new, with a UI that begs and pleads to be considered "different" (OMG tiles!) just for the sake of being different, is a recipe for continued mediocrity.

These are the same people that are still spending money on Zune promotion. LOL!!

As long as Ballmer makes the decisions it'll be the same story month after mediocre month in Redmond.

You're actually comparing Apple to Sony?

The Apple of today makes Sony at their height look like a convenience store on the wrong side of town.

The kind of creativity and energy in Cupertino has proven to be far and away unapproachable by even the best in tech, never mind an old and tired company too big for its britches with vision too small for the market.

Call a spade a spade.

Microsoft is following the trajectory of IBM. Eventually they will get some creative individual to come up with some really creative things, but it will be too little too late, and they won't be able to overcome their stodgy public image. Or maybe they won't have a public image, since their visibility in all the key consumer markets is sinking.

The best thing Microsoft can do at this point is focus on their strengths in the enterprise, and shed the consumer market, for which they have no talent whatsoever (aside from their game console. . . . *yawn*)

Real competition for Apple will come, but not from Microsoft. It will come from companies that don't exist yet. Eventually someone other than Apple will come up with the kinds of ideas that reshape markets overnight (like Apple's), but we'll have to wait a bit.

This isn't the mobile blockbuster you're looking for.

Not entirely true.

Apple created the iPhone in the absence of any viable competition, and completely redefined the market overnight.

Apple created the iPad in the absence of competition, and created a new market overnight. And many have called it "just a big iPod Touch." Now look at what this big iPod Touch has done.

Apple brought to market the first successful GUI when everyone else was using DOS and the average user couldn't even conceive of anything else. What was driving Apple? LOL . . . IBM's failed vision and Apple's unmatched drive. Again, there was no competition in this area either.

Enter the iPod. What competition? The "competition" to the iPod at the time was absolutely pathetic. What drove Apple? Great ideas. Not someone else pushing them.

Apple *created* Android. Without the iPhone Eric T. Mole would still be busy playing with Gmail and commemorative Google logos at Christmas and Halloween. It's thanks to Apple that we have the level of smartphones on the market we see today. Does Google drive Apple? No more than anyone else. The "competition" needs to churn out all manner of hardware and OS versions to compete with Apple's ONE (or at most, two) phones, locked to a single carrier in the US. And Apple is *still* the one that sets the pace of change. No single phone from the competition is an actual "iPhone-Killer" because they simply don't have what it takes (it all comes down to philosophy about how people should interact with tech) to create a single "iPhone-Killer." Of course, the perennial excuse is "openness" and "choice."
And what's really going to change about the competition? Nothing much at a fundamental level. Apple's way of thinking about people and tech comes from a totally different place. Hence, their wild success in such a short span of time.

How come MS can't just make ONE great phone? Just do ONE right and that's it. ONE phone that sets the bar for all others.

For the moment (or rather, the better part of a decade now), their loyalty is very well-placed.

"Choice" (so-called) doesn't amount to much when it offers nothing really compelling. Choice in this case, becomes not only superfluous but potentially confusing.

Which smartphone are you using?

Bingo. This is the first rule of User Experience.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8B117)

Makes no difference what MS does at this point, an they've done nothing compelling. If it's isn't anything earth-shattering it'll just be more flotsam and jetsam in Apple and Google's wake.

The top five U.S. publicly-traded companies, based on full market values, are:
1. Exxon Mobil (XOM) - $328.47B
2. Apple (AAPL) - $269.98B
3. Microsoft (MSFT) - $212.49B
4. Berkshire-Hathaway (BRKA) - 205.04B
4. Wal-Mart (WMT) - $198.56B

Selected companies' current market values:
• IBM (IBM) - $176.18B
• Google (GOOG) - $171.71B
• Cisco (CSCO) - $127.70B
• Intel (INTC) - $108.94B
• Hewlett-Packard (HPQ) - $93.39B
• Amazon (AMZN) - $68.52B
• Disney (DIS) - $66.12B
• Nokia (NOK) - $40.65B
• Sony (SNE) - $32.37B
• Research In Motion (RIMM) - $25.43B
• Dell (DELL) - $26.74B
• Motorola (MOT) - $19.30B
• Yahoo! (YHOO) - $19.44B
• Adobe (ADBE) - $14.14B
• Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) - $4.87B
• RealNetworks (RNWK) - $440.67M

It takes Google around 59 or so, or rather, 43 currently.

http://www.androphones.com/2010-android-phones.php

Bloody mind-numbing.

How hard is it? ONE phone. One great phone done right that sets the bar consistently.

Well, in all fairness, the priorities are *much* different in Cupertino. Google tried a "signature" product with the Nexus One and figured out they can copy Apple, but they aren't *actually* Apple, and promptly gave up on the idea.

MS seems to be going down the "difference for difference's sake" path, which means they're pretty much out of ideas, having slept through the last 3+ years.

"We come at it (tech) from such a different place."
- Bertrand Serlet, senior vice president of software engineering, Apple

Aint that the truth.

You're on an Apple fansite. It's not a general tech site, like Neowin. No, Apple fans aren't trolling their own site by praising Apple, LOL. They're just fans that are obviously going to be quite loyal to their product of choice. That's the whole point. You start waving a Windows or Android flag around here, naturally you're going to get some heat. Sure, you can have intelligent discussion about tech at large, but it'll always be slanted toward Apple.

The only "trolls" here are those that are just rude for whatever reason, and those that come here complaining about why we don't give equal hugs and kisses to other tech. Simply put, IT'S AN APPLE FANSITE, any way you slice it. What did you expect?

No. But having a powerful, effective and successful mobile strategy is key for future growth and investor confidence. This isn't ten years ago. If MS fumbles this time (again), it'll mean trouble. Like others have said before . . . a slow, ponderous decline. Everyone's transitioning to mobile platforms of various kinds. MS doesn't have one at this point until these phones hit the shelves. The Zune failure doesn't count. Where would more delays, failures and false starts leave MS? Still milking the old operating-system-Wintel paradigm? The Windows on a beige box with a monitor game is going out of style. And you can tell. MS is scrambling to shove a full OS onto a mobile device, which is pure comedy. That leaves Office bloatware, the enterprise sector, and gaming. Losing in the mobile space this time around would be a huge blow.

Now I'm not sure how one would define "losing" in this sense, but not offering anything to firmly and with extreme prejudice leapfrog iOS and iPhone hardware is not a good first step.

Their long-term success in the consumer sector depends on mobile strategy. Unless they're alright with just making a game console and such.

Which is a lovely way of saying fansite.

You can sugarcoat it all you like. "Apple information and discussion portal." "Mac news and Apple products discourse area", etc. LOL

It's a fansite, just like AppleInsider and all the rest.

But by all means, continue to pretend and then complain.

This sums it up. Companies at the top of their game don't need to continually deal with embarrassment. MS has been beset by it for several years now, and what's worse, at the hands of a rival a fraction of their size with a fraction of their R&D (but now at nearly $60 billion more in value.)

It's gotta hurt when Ballmer walks into a press conference only to see a room full of Macs and Apple gear. Which is becoming par for the course.

It's gotta hurt that Win PCs have been locked out of the Premium end of the market. Those with $$ to spend are buying Macs. Windows PCs have been effectively relegated to bargain-bin status. Just look at the cheap netbook push. It's a sad state of affairs.

It's because they lack what Apple has in abundance. The intangibles that occur before a product is brought to market. Vision, philosophy, a clear idea about what the relationship should be between people and technology. Apple is dead-set on humanizing tech. Microsoft is dead-set on cramming "features" onto a box of circuits of whatever size and then playing the volume game with third party hardware manufacturers like Dell or Acer. What else is new.

I have a red card for personal insult (which I'm glad that I let out of my system), so I won't respond to these. I'll just let them speak for themselves.

 

[LagunaSol]

yet they have sold 66 million of them..

Most of them sold at a healthy loss. And which required production of 100 million units.

(Actually, probably more. I doubt there are many 360 owners who still have their original console. My brother is on his third. Some have gone through a half-dozen or more.)

The console war is one of the most bizarre business strategies ever. Microsoft will pay anything for "cool."

 

[KnightWRX]

No, I'm pretty sure offering too many choices has a part in it.

No, it really doesn't. Imagine the number of permutations you could create if every manufacturer option was individual. Now imagine keeping inventory of said permutations.

Like Mattie said, car manufacturer package up options to limit permutations of different models in order to make inventory manageable and in order to simplify assembly lines and dealer sales.

Notice how dealer installed options can be bought individually. That's because the dealers just find a car with the manufacturer options and then order parts and do the labor on site to modify it with the dealer installed parts.

It has nothing to do with choice. You people are easily confused if a Sunroof and power door locks can make you "think" and walk out. If you walk out, it's not the choice between the roof and locks, it's because you weren't sure in the first place.

 

[philosopherdog]

Steve is on the ground. Help him up. Ballmer is such a Stew.

 

[tigress666]

No, it really doesn't. Imagine the number of permutations you could create if every manufacturer option was individual. Now imagine keeping inventory of said permutations.

Like Mattie said, car manufacturer package up options to limit permutations of different models in order to make inventory manageable and in order to simplify assembly lines and dealer sales.

Notice how dealer installed options can be bought individually. That's because the dealers just find a car with the manufacturer options and then order parts and do the labor on site to modify it with the dealer installed parts.

It has nothing to do with choice. You people are easily confused if a Sunroof and power door locks can make you "think" and walk out. If you walk out, it's not the choice between the roof and locks, it's because you weren't sure in the first place.

Did you read any of the articles I also posted pointing out that it has shown that offering too many choices reduces the amount of sales you make?

As I said, even if my first analogy isn't quite right on why the car manufacturers don't offer things except in packages, the studies are still there that do show people don't buy as much if you offer them too many choices.

I notice you conveniently cut out all the links I found talking about the studies. Here they are again:

http://blog.mindvalleylabs.com/stop-offering-your-customers-too-many-choices/218/

This article talks about the study that the other articles mention:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/27/your-money/27shortcuts.html

This article touches on it a little as well (it is arguign for offering choices but if you read it it does mention you don't want to offer too many cause it will turn the consumer off):
http://ezinearticles.com/?Offering-Choices---A-Good-Marketing-Practice&id=941419

This article has two paragraphs mentioning the fact that yes, you can have too many choices:
http://raventools.com/blog/take-advantage-of-the-secret-art-of-persuasion/

 

[KnightWRX]

I notice you conveniently cut out all the links I found talking about the studies. Here they are again:

http://blog.mindvalleylabs.com/stop-offering-your-customers-too-many-choices/218/

I stopped reading at this one. Here's why, a troubling quote from the article :

I know Apple, I trust their name. I worship Steve Jobs.

I think that says it all about any credibility the author wished he had. Of course someone who worships Steve Jobs is against choice, Steve always talks in disdain about choice.

 

[John Dillinger]

Wow

Would you look at that UI.

(iPhone 4 vs WP7 video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gngr3RF_eBY&feature=channel

Looks VERY different from iPhone. Makes iPhone OS look cluttered and outdated.

When you add the familiar .NET platform for developers, sharepoint integration. this could really take off. And this is version 1.0.

Also xbox live for the younger crowd for gaming...Im assuming they are working on a phoneless "HTC iTouch Killer"

Google better hurry up with that UI refresh to really carve out their own, polished identity (though still ahead of iOS in some areas)

Very interesting times ahead.

edit: "Windows Phone" is pretty cack name though unfortunately

 

[Hastings101]

You completely missed his point and managed to prove his point at the same time. We all also know that PC Wifi is so much different than Apple Wifi

Yay, someone else caught the irony there too

 

[a cat *miaow*]

I stopped reading at this one. Here's why, a troubling quote from the article :


I think that says it all about any credibility the author wished he had. Of course someone who worships Steve Jobs is against choice, Steve always talks in disdain about choice.

A very troubling quote indeed –*and this article was put forward as a 'study'!?

 

[BJMRamage]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

I do like that they tried a different approach to icons. Don't care for the other mobile app icons.

 

[NT1440]

Steve always talks in disdain about choice.

Far over reaching comment right there Knight.

Watch this years D8 interview with Jobs and tell me that in all cases he is against choice.

 

[delta function]

It's because they lack what Apple has in abundance. The intangibles that occur before a product is brought to market. Vision, philosophy, a clear idea about what the relationship should be between people and technology. Apple is dead-set on humanizing tech. Microsoft is dead-set on cramming "features" onto a box of circuits of whatever size and then playing the volume game with third party hardware manufacturers like Dell or Acer. What else is new.

And what Apple fanboys lack, others have in abundance. The intangibles that occur before a product is purchased. Choice, free will, a clear idea about what product they want and the ability to decide form themselves. What else is new?

 

[KnightWRX]

Far over reaching comment right there Knight.

Watch this years D8 interview with Jobs and tell me that in all cases he is against choice.

On which subject ? The interview is over an hour long, spanning multiple subjects, not a lot of it being about choice (the Flash part is especially anti-choice...).

 

[powers74]

The Zune Phone has landed.

LOL, at long last?

They launched with 9 different handsets? How different could all those phones possibly be? Seems unnecessary .

My very first thought as well.

Sure Smartphone Wars.

It's like Apple is the U.S.
Google Android is like the U.S.S.R. - Google TV will be their Chernobyl.
And M$ is like the U.K. - They used to rule the world, but now they're just the small island that is slowly losing relevance.

This is a great quote, but we'll see about GTV though. That might be a little extreme.

Wow, I just went to Microsoft.com and not one mention of the phone there. I mean when apple launches a new product it's plastered all over the homepage.

I find this to highlight more than almost anything the key differences between Redmond and Cupertino. That is to say, not on top of it.

Yeah, that 40% hardware failure rate was a real grand slam.

I doubt there are many 360 owners who still have their original console. My brother is on his third. Some have gone through a half-dozen or more.)

I know a friend of mine has been through 4. Why even bother?