Microsoft Unveils Windows Phone 7 Handsets

[Mr. MacPhisto]

There's potential here, but refinement is going to be needed. I'd like to see WP7 get better because it will allow me to integrate my Zune usage.

But MS started taking steps in the right direction with the Zune HD. I think it is a far superior music player than the iPod Touch or any other iPod with software that looks better and is not as bloated as iTunes has become. I've just been frustrated that MS hasn't done enough to push this product or tried to get other manufacturers on board to build Zune devices to launch an attack on the iPod and iTunes. As a Zune Pass user, I must say that I can't envision ever going back to the non-subscription model.

But it's an uphill climb for any of these devices. And problem #1 for MS is that Verizon is lukewarm. They need to get Verizon's input and work with them much like they worked with manufacturers when developing Windows 7. Win7 has been an unmitigated success.

I do like MS' data centric approach to things and the integration is impressive, but it's not enough. However, I think MS' upcoming advertising blitz will help them grow market share once more, impacting RIM, Apple, and Android.

In the end I think Android will end up with the largest piece of the pie. It seems to be where most of the innovation will come from. Apple's system is too closed to really take control of a market. They're good at locking down a steady group of people and that's great for profits, but people who favor independence will shy away from Apple's controlling nature.

 

[sasebastian]

1 out of every 4200 is a PC. What are the numbers of Macs to PCs in the world? 1 for every 10,00-15,000? If so those are great numbers.

I can see your point but my number are Best buy computers only. Thats all geek squad works on. And at Best buy the number of apple laptops is actually greater than the number of PCs sold in some areas. We repair every computer from Minnesota to the east coast that was sold at a Best buy. I don't know how many macbooks vs pcs are sold down to the digit but I do know that the numbers are no longer far apart. In the whole world, obviously there are way more PCs than macs, but the failure rate is still there. If the fail rate of a mac is .05 percent of all sold and PC's are 25 percent of all sold then it's still unacceptable. But thanks for pointing that out to about numbers world wide. You are right. When you've pulled you hair out for years trying to deal with the many issues on a PC and then switch to mac and have yet to have an issue, you'll understand my view on the subject.

 

[50548]

MS makes money from the XBox?

Didn't think so.

Exactly my words...

And worry not, LTD: you're not alone in this fight...people can't even remember what the smartphone scene was like before the iPhone. Now THIS is called innovation: to be a leader, not follower.

 

[swagi]

I went through 3 360's within the original warranty period, before I bought a ps3 and have not had a problem yet. Replacing something with a refurbished device that will give me the same problem is not helping a customer out at all. I eventually bought the new HDMI xbox without the heating issue and it red ringed within 3 months. Replacing something doesn't keep the device from continually failing. I work at Geek Squad City and know a ton of people who have went through several 360's within a 2 year period. And while we're on the subject of failure, where I work I fix laptop computers. 1 out of every 4,200 computers with a software issue is an apple computer, the rest are windows PC's.

Emphasis on the tricky part of your post. And basically this just proves the point, that many Apple users are just too dull and brainwashed to realize software issues.

Oh...Safari doesn't memory leak - it's just crappy Flash

Honestly the BlueScreen argument is getting so old - especially when we have our own fine Beachball of Death. You haven't gotten one? Oh boy, you should see Leopard on a PPC machine. Or see OS X choke on a DICOM database (Osirix is a fine viewer btw). Or basically stop flame-baiting.

With all due respect:
Proud owner of 5 Intel iMacs (2 with fried board, 3 with vertical stripe displays), iPhone 3GS (with very limited battery capability), several iPods (all dead HDD) and Powerbook G4 (the last of its kind - a solid, working, durable Apple machine with no problems for 5 years!).

 

[sasebastian]

Sources please?

And please don't start us on the it just works...

My source was about engaget, and was on this site about 3 months ago. I don't expect you to take my word for it so I will search for it.

As far as "it just works" goes, sorry but it just does. Never had a single computer issue for the last 7 years after dumping my main PC for a mac. The windows 7 laptop I'm typing on is the only source of my headaches now.
Not looking for a big drawn out argument, I'm just stating my opinion from personal experience. Don't get so upset. Get an iphone and be happy dude.

 

[Avalontor]

Exactly my words...

And worry not, LTD: you're not alone in this fight...people can't even remember what the smartphone scene was like before the iPhone. Now THIS is called innovation: to be a leader, not follower.

Apple purchased Fingerworks, the innovation behind the iPhone.

"Now THIS is called innovation: to be a buyer, not follower."

 

[wirelessmacuser]

And that will be the litmus test for the win7 phones. I think the market is too crowded and I think MS has an up hill battle to regain market share. I hate the UI and I think that might hold it back. iOS has a beautiful UI, its fast elegant and intuitive. Android has a great interface as well. I hate BlackBerry's with there icons looking like line art and this also fails to blow up my skirt.

Very true.

Microsoft has quite a hill to climb. Peoples perception of the company has suffered under Ballmer's watch, as witnessed by some of the comments in this forum. Most people have no clue just how vast Microsoft is at this point, and how relatively unimportant WP7 is, if it fails.

As far as the UI... I to find it rather hideous and lacks a compelling "look and feel".

This is why I enjoy using _Both iOS, and Android, as they are each unique in their own ways, and serve two rather different purposes for me.

The more I use Android, the better I like it. And it's not that I didn't like it to start, it's just that like anything else new it takes time to learn. I found the learning curve quite intuitive and short, with most of my time being spent learning Android in depth, in order to optimize my device to my liking. No different than one who is new to iPhone for example.

It will be interesting to see just how the public accepts WP7 and at what rate.

Cheers...

 

[samcraig]

And while we're on the subject of failure, where I work I fix laptop computers. 1 out of every 4,200 computers with a software issue is an apple computer, the rest are windows PC's.

I am sure that's a bit of hyperbole - but even so - that's like saying there's a lot more crime in NYC than in somewhere in the middle of ohio.

Fact is - the stat alone is meaningless. In the above example - the per capita rate could be lower or higher. Yes - NYC has a "high" crime rate - but per capita it's not all that different than other cities or counties we FAR less people.

With your example - it is NO surprise that a majority of the issues you experienced as a Tech were with PCs The market share for PCs vs Mac is signification. And if you worked for Best Buy, for example - they aren't KNOWN for fixing Macs like the Apple Store is or a speciality shop.

No machine is infallible.

 

[iWonderwhy]

I love how Microsoft news gets the most comments/feedback on a site dedicated to Apple news. People care!

 

[sasebastian]

Emphasis on the tricky part of your post. And basically this just proves the point, that many Apple users are just too dull and brainwashed to realize software issues.

Oh...Safari doesn't memory leak - it's just crappy Flash

Honestly the BlueScreen argument is getting so old - especially when we have our own fine Beachball of Death. You haven't gotten one? Oh boy, you should see Leopard on a PPC machine. Or see OS X choke on a DICOM database (Osirix is a fine viewer btw). Or basically stop flame-baiting.

With all due respect:
Proud owner of 5 Intel iMacs (2 with fried board, 3 with vertical stripe displays), iPhone 3GS (with very limited battery capability), several iPods (all dead HDD) and Powerbook G4 (the last of its kind - a solid, working, durable Apple machine with no problems for 5 years!).

sounds like you've had really bad luck.

My 2007 imac has 4GB of ram and has beach balls for maybe a second on final cut studio 3 but that's it. don't even know what a DICOM database is. Leopard was not written for PPC, it is just backwards compatible. With that said, My imac g5 has leopard running of it and I use Aperture 2 on it and have not had a beach ball of death. I do see your point with Safari but have never had any problems that I could note. It uses too much RAM but has not been leaking RAM on my system. I still use my Original ipod every day and aside from it being as big as a brick it has never went bad. My 3gs got better battery life than my iphone 4 does and the only part I've ever replaced in a mac in the last 7 years what a power supply in my g5 that went bad after a lighting storm. But even that didn't fry the logic board so you need to go back to PC cause apple don't like you.

 

[samcraig]

Originally Posted by BRLawyer
Exactly my words...

And worry not, LTD: you're not alone in this fight...people can't even remember what the smartphone scene was like before the iPhone. Now THIS is called innovation: to be a leader, not follower.



I guess some people have better memories than others. Because I remember several smart phones before the iPhone was introduced. I also remember how limited the iPhone was before the app store when basically - there wasn't all that much to DO with this brand new "smart phone."

I love the rewriting of history going on here..

 

[HLdan]

I guess some people have better memories than others. Because I remember several smart phones before the iPhone was introduced. I also remember how limited the iPhone was before the app store when basically - there wasn't all that much to DO with this brand new "smart phone."

I love the rewriting of history going on here..

Yep, especially your version of it.

 

[sasebastian]

I am sure that's a bit of hyperbole - but even so - that's like saying there's a lot more crime in NYC than in somewhere in the middle of ohio.

Fact is - the stat alone is meaningless. In the above example - the per capita rate could be lower or higher. Yes - NYC has a "high" crime rate - but per capita it's not all that different than other cities or counties we FAR less people.

With your example - it is NO surprise that a majority of the issues you experienced as a Tech were with PCs The market share for PCs vs Mac is signification. And if you worked for Best Buy, for example - they aren't KNOWN for fixing Macs like the Apple Store is or a speciality shop.

No machine is infallible.

You are right, no machine is infallible. But some machines are far more fallible than others. People base their opinions mostly on personal experience and that is what I have done. In my life, working as a computer tech for the last 9 years I know there are a lot more fatal issues with PCs than with Macs. When I say fatal I mean that require new hardware or a reinstall of the OS. I took a break from Geek squad for a year when I got a job at the local apple store and worked for the Genius Bar. I didn't had conflicts with the manager there and went back to Geek Squad. But in a place that sells nothing but macs, we very rarely got one in for repair that was not a problem with the user. In fact the most common problem on a mac is the power supply and is almost always caused by power surge. That is the customers fault for now using a surge protector just like you should with a PC. Like I've said, from my personal experience ( which is a decent amount) I have had nothing but problems from Microsoft products as well as the manufacture of the PC such as HP, Gateway, and most often Dell.

I do respect your opinion though

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

You are right, no machine is infallible. But some machines are far more fallible than others. People base their opinions mostly on personal experience and that is what I have done. In my life, working as a computer tech for the last 9 years I know there are a lot more fatal issues with PCs than with Macs. When I say fatal I mean that require new hardware or a reinstall of the OS. I took a break from Geek squad for a year when I got a job at the local apple store and worked for the Genius Bar. I didn't had conflicts with the manager there and went back to Geek Squad. But in a place that sells nothing but macs, we very rarely got one in for repair that was not a problem with the user. In fact the most common problem on a mac is the power supply and is almost always caused by power surge. That is the customers fault for now using a surge protector just like you should with a PC. Like I've said, from my personal experience ( which is a decent amount) I have had nothing but problems from Microsoft products as well as the manufacture of the PC such as HP, Gateway, and most often Dell.

I do respect your opinion though

I'm calling BS. Being behind that Genius Bar for 3+ years we had so many machines in at times that they were stacked on the floors. Especially 20" iMac non ALS with bulging capacitors, Emac REP's, Powerbook G4 1.6/1.5 bad ram slots, Macbook heat sink issues, iMac Intel Screen Lines, etc etc etc.

 

[samcraig]

But in a place that sells nothing but macs, we very rarely got one in for repair that was not a problem with the user.

I do respect your opinion though

But I thought Macs just worked? I'm teasing.. and I respect your perspective as well.

 

[OllyW]

Yep, especially your version of it.

He's got a point though, the first iPhone was very basic at launch. The user interface was great but it was really lacking in features and the omission of 3G was unforgivable.

Of course it soon got a lot better with the iPhone 3G and OS2 and has never looked back since.

 

[dgree03]

Originally Posted by BRLawyer
Exactly my words...

And worry not, LTD: you're not alone in this fight...people can't even remember what the smartphone scene was like before the iPhone. Now THIS is called innovation: to be a leader, not follower.



I guess some people have better memories than others. Because I remember several smart phones before the iPhone was introduced. I also remember how limited the iPhone was before the app store when basically - there wasn't all that much to DO with this brand new "smart phone."

I love the rewriting of history going on here..

I know, it happens here a little too much for comfort. The rewriting of history needs to stop. The fact that people think apple just created a cell phone out of thin air without ANY INFLUENCE OR IDEAS FROM CURRENT(2007) AND PAST PHONES.

Look Blackberry, Windows, Nokia, Samung, and Sony have been around a LONG LONG time with VERY INNOVATIVE phones.

N95, N90, N92, N93
K800, K810, P800, P900, P910,W series
Any blackberry
Prada
Treo

Windows Mobile had the largest App fooprint LONG BEFORE App store. Blackberry still has a decent footprint, the only difference between those apps and iOS apps is apple decided to corner all apps into ONE area. Where as back in the day I can go almost ANYWHERE and buy apps for windows or BB.

I dont care is this is a apple centric site or not, people cannot be this ignorant and blind to other tech or past tech.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

I know, it happens here a little too much for comfort. The rewriting of history needs to stop. The fact that people think apple just created a cell phone out of thin air without ANY INFLUENCE OR IDEAS FROM CURRENT(2007) AND PAST PHONES.

Look Blackberry, Windows, Nokia, Samung, and Sony have been around a LONG LONG time with VERY INNOVATIVE phones.

N95, N90, N92, N93
K800, K810, P800, P900, P910,W series
Any blackberry
Prada
Treo

Windows Mobile had the largest App fooprint LONG BEFORE App store. Blackberry still has a decent footprint, the only difference between those apps and iOS apps is apple decided to corner all apps into ONE area. Where as back in the day I can go almost ANYWHERE and buy apps for windows or BB.

I dont care is this is a apple centric site or not, people cannot be this ignorant and blind to other tech or past tech.

Welcome to MR.

 

[OllyW]

I dont care is this is a apple centric site or not, people cannot be this ignorant and blind to other tech or past tech.

Sorry, I'm afraid they can.

 

[wirelessmacuser]

I own an iPhone and an iPad, but you people really, really make me hate owning any Apple products and being generally associated with your kind. You notice how all other communities dismiss you as mindless fanboys? You ever figure that maybe they're not just trolling, that maybe you guys really are that annoying?

I kept this inside for all this time but the endless dumb replies in this thread pushed me over the edge.

I've been an avid Apple enthusiast (_not_ fanboy) for a decade. Buying new PowerBooks, then iPods, then MacBook Pros etc. My current crop of "newer" gear consists of an iPhone 4, mid 2010 15" MBP, 2010 MacPro w/27" LED Cinema Display etc. So the only point being to illustrate that I'm a serious mac user.

In recent times (say the last 4 years) when I meet someone new, and they ask me what computer I use and I say Mac, often I'm met with an odd look like the person is silently thinking "oh you're one of those".

Then there's the annoyance of sifting through the juvenile "cool story bro" posts with the stupid adolescent graphic, to get to the posts made by intelligent fellow enthusiasts.

While I don't let it upset me, I can see why it upsets others for that matter. In my case I have a wry sense of humor, I really could care less about the everyday dimwits we encounter and actually find these idiot comments rather amusing if not repetitive.

That said at the end of the day I don't let it influence my purchases. I also happen to think the CEO who was once a bright and innovative guy, let the money go to his head and now is a narcissistic dolt. A dolt that has turned into the best deceptive marketing wiz in this country. No wonder he milks a cash cow.

 

[wikd1]

One thing I hate is popping my Macbook Pro out somewhere and having an Apple geek start spewing anti everything else crap at me. Its tough being associated by default to such a "cult".

Sheesh. My neighbor does that. God forbid I get stuck in the driveway with them. I get an hour of babble about the superiority of Windoze followed by another hour of excruciating detail about what it took to set up a Windoze Wi-fi network or something in their house.

 

[mrochester]

Exactly my words...

And worry not, LTD: you're not alone in this fight...people can't even remember what the smartphone scene was like before the iPhone. Now THIS is called innovation: to be a leader, not follower.

I think you must just be suffering from 'selective memory' syndrome. Do you remember the Nokia N80? That was the first widespread mobile phone with wifi. What a revelation it was to be able to browse the internet on a pocketable device! And that was 2005/2006, more than a year before we even knew what an iPhone was.

 

[dgree03]

Sorry, I'm afraid they can.

I know! Its just unbelievable and frustrating. It hard know that I can associate with people unable to take off thier homer hat for a minute and actually give credit where credit is due.

I never see this amount of blind worship from any other fansite I visit. Even BMW forums are a lot more "openminded"

 

[mrochester]

Which is a lovely way of saying fansite.

You can sugarcoat it all you like. "Apple information and discussion portal." "Mac news and Apple products discourse area", etc. LOL

It's a fansite, just like AppleInsider and all the rest.

But by all means, continue to pretend and then complain.

Not really. An Apple fansite would be a hardcore Apple community filled with people who are incredibly narrow minded, arrogant and unable to see beyond their own borders... oh wait, maybe you are right about this being an Apple Fansite.

In all seriousness though, this is a forum to discuss news and topics about Apple, both good and bad. There is no pre-requisite that you must own nothing but Apple hardware, or that you can only say good things about Apple.

 

[Mike225]

One thing I hate is popping my Macbook Pro out somewhere and having an Apple geek start spewing anti everything else crap at me. Its tough being associated by default to such a "cult".

Sheesh. My neighbor does that. God forbid I get stuck in the driveway with them. I get an hour of babble about the superiority of Windoze followed by another hour of excruciating detail about what it took to set up a Windoze Wi-fi network or something in their house.

You completely missed his point and managed to prove his point at the same time. We all also know that PC Wifi is so much different than Apple Wifi