Microsoft's Longhorn

[Phobophobia]

Think about it...

There are so many posts in this topic contemplating how M$ will get people to buy such expensive computers, and it doesn't like seem like anyone has figured it out, yet. However, the answer is right in front of you. (Think Janus...)

Anyone have it yet?

 

[smorr]

"That PC featured another concept that Microsoft said would soon become mainstream, the ability for computers to turn on and off nearly instantaneously"

hnmmm its called sleep function

I think computers have always be able to turn off and on instantaneously -- it is the loading of the OS that takes time.

 

[eyeluvmyimac]

You know your right.. but its kinda funny. people were saying the same thing when 1GB was a huge amount.

now i couldnt install all my software in under a gig.

same thing will happen with 1TB
seems huge now in 10 years it will be average or almost minimum , My bet

10 years yes...but they say 2005...which was, the last time i checked, next year. And considering we are already in May of 2004, 2005 is just around the corner...

 

[nmk]

Microsoft has always followed a business model where they have tried to get their operating system out to as many people as possible. I seriously doubt that they will break that trend with Longhorn. Most people view commputers as commodities. That essentially means they dont care one bit how fancy it is, they just want to be able to read their email, browse the web, work on some word or excel documents. Even those who use their computers as somewhat of a "Digital Hub" usually are just using software jukeboxes to burn and copy their music. All of these functions can be performed by entry level computers today.

If Microsoft were stupid enough to destroy the budget computer market, they would leave the door open for Linux. Linux is already light enough that it had been ported to an iPod. Once someone makes a viable desktop distribution of Linux (MANY people would say that the current crop is viable) it would replace MS as the budget OS of choice. This is a scenario that would have very negative reprecussions for MS. I think that MS must be banking on the fact that budget PC's will be able to run Longhorn by the time it's released.

As I said before, the PC is a commodity to most people which is why the resale values for PC's is so low. Microsoft can not destroy the commodity PC market. If they try to do that, they'll simply destroy themselves. Say what you want about Bill Gates, but he is certainly not stupid. PC's will get cheaper and Longhorn will have to run on those systems.

 

[idkew]

Umm actually I expect to see RAID become standard in the future. A failed HD is the biggest potential for data loss on a computer. I'm betting in the next 4 years you are going to see SATA RAID become mainstream with 3x 500GB hard drives RAIDed. Cheaper end computer will always stick with single drives for price but higher end system will probably start to incorporate poor mans RAID.

Not for the average PC user/business user. This is where MSFT makes its money.

 

[ingenious]

I've seen the latest internals. They have a new interface and skin called "glass", and, yes, it is very similar in look to OS X.

IMHO, it looks better than OS X.

thats y tiger is coming out. ne one have a release date for tiger? i really hope M$ doesn't leapfrog Apple. I mean, i will still stick w/ my mac, but still... o and with this 6 GHz things..... wonder how expensive they will be? & ppl say PPC is expensive!!!! (wait... what if it runs on PPC? )

Overall, though, Longhorn still had an Apple look to it. I suppose imitation is a form of flattery, after all. It'll be years before Longhorn launches, but it should be fun to watch it develop. Microsoft is giving out early copies of it at the end of WinHEC, so there'll be lots more written about it in the coming weeks

y isnt there any legal thing that apple can do about this? its not fair competition!

 

[a_iver]

And with the dark colors in Longhorn it looks like more people might be using Apple's interface for the blind (rumored in Tiger) then we thought.

 

[rdowns]

Here's a nice screenshot...

Personally, they made it even more confusing.
At first glance, I didn't even know what I was looking at

They still expect floppy drives to be in computers?

 

[rdowns]

Wow! Talk about a dismal world view. C'mon, do you really believe all that? I don't think that there is this massive conspiracy between MS and the hardware makers. In some ways, the PC world benefits from seperate OS and Hardware manufactures. It causes them to push each other, not secretly force people into buying the latest equipment.

Do you think Apple makes computers just to make people happy. No, they are a business as well. They want to *gasp* make money, they want *gasp* profit.

Don't you think that if Apple suddenly got huge marketshare they would get slammed for insisting that they control both the Hardware and Software ends of their equipment? Talk about a conspiracy, why don't you complain that Apple killed the clones. Or makes it illegal to install OS X on a non-Apple PPC machine.

Doesn't Apple want to control the Digital Lifestyle. Isn't that what iLife and iPods are all about?

Sometimes, I wonder if a lot of the people who buy Macs buy them just because the are not the dominate computer, not because they are simply better designed for what they want a PC to do.

I think we can all agree that Msft steals OS and UI elements from Apple. Where do they steal FUD from?

My guess, this thread.

 

[rdowns]

The problem is, they will have a Mac OS X UI of today...in six years Where will we be by then?

Predicting the new PB G5s next Tuesday?

Waiting for the 3GHz PMs?

Waiting for iPod mini supply to meet demand?

Complaining about the Motorola 167 MHz bus?

Give the FUD a rest people.

 

[nubero]

…But Windows has never really been about cool, it's been about productivity…

Well the productivity factor is even worse than the looks of Windows... in any version there has been (and probably will be)

--- --- --- --- ---
My free Desktop Pictures!
http://homepage.mac.com/nuber

 

[J-Squire]

Another thing

There seems to be a lot of discussion as to whether desktops will have these kind of specsin 3 years time or not. I think it is a big ask, but I don't think it's impossible.

HOWEVER.....what about LAPTOPS!!?? There is NO CHANCE we are going to see dual 4GHz laptops with 1TB storage by 2007. So how are they going to use Longhorn?

 

[mcdermd]

Maybe this is totally different but you know where he gets all excited over the movie playing thumbnail size? Well, doesn't OS X do that already in the Dock with a Quicktime (or whatever) playing? Or is this a whole other thing? You can correct me if I'm wrong about it.

Very true - and it's a trick I use to show off the "coolness" factor OS X to potential Switchers. Just think, in two years when people are showing you that great new feature in Longhorn, you can say "Yeah, big deal. Macs were doing that four years ago." :-D

I dunno, it's great that MS is working on a "hot" new OS, but it still looks like it has all the clunky stuff that I switched to mac to get away from. I bet from the standpoint of everyday user functionality, it'll still be very similar to the current Win model (just like, other than looks, XP isn't much different functionally than WinNT).

But, whatever. Let them have their day. Differn't strokes for differn't folks. I still prefer my OS X where everything is easy enough that my computer destroying friend can finally feel like he knows what he's doing and complex enough that I can pop into myself into a unix shell if I want :-D

 

[MorganX]

There seems to be a lot of discussion as to whether desktops will have these kind of specsin 3 years time or not. I think it is a big ask, but I don't think it's impossible.

HOWEVER.....what about LAPTOPS!!?? There is NO CHANCE we are going to see dual 4GHz laptops with 1TB storage by 2007. So how are they going to use Longhorn?

You may find THIS ARTICLE interesting.

 

[MorganX]

I think we can all agree that Msft steals OS and UI elements from Apple. Where do they steal FUD from?

My guess, this thread.

Aha... but they stole the Start button form Xerox PARC. I saw it with my owne eyes. Upper left-hand corner of the ... "desktop."

 

[JoeMacDaddy]

How is MicroSoft going to make one buy anything. Like you said many are still in NT. Why would they need to change? If NT works for what they do, then it is not a big deal. NT will still work for them in 2007 when Longhorn comes out.

Microsft has announced EOL on Win 95/98/ME & NT. No support, no patches = must move to newer OS. License by Microsoft is you want supported OS, then you pay price for Longhorn and use 2K or XP. You have to understand their current license scam/scheme. People who bought the big corporate license had to buy the XP license just to have their NT installation supported. That is how they got $40+ billion in the bank.

 

[Wonder Boy]

hmm, longhorn actually looks pretty decent.

maybe it's because it looks more like os x, but still, it's much improved.

 

[evilsprung]

Wow, there's nothing more refreshing than Mac elitism when reading a thread like this.

 

[Bhennies]

hmm, longhorn actually looks pretty decent.

maybe it's because it looks more like os x, but still, it's much improved.

Let's put it this way- it looks way better than XP. My Mom has a POS gateway and the interface is so disgusting, what was MS thinking? Longhorn looks much better, but seems to borrow heavily from Apple OS. Seems like history repeats itself.

 

[LaMerVipere]

Wow, there's nothing more refreshing than Mac elitism when reading a thread like this.

I second that.

 

[King Cobra]

Where can I get the full, unwatermarked, high-res, quality image of the blue desktop pic in some of the Longhorn screenshots? That's prob. my favorite part of them.

Now, let's say that the complete Longhorn package, with all the extra, takes up a small fraction of the 1TB that's been posted, say, 10GB (wild impliciation). (I'm pulling 10GB out of the 1TB to demonstrate a point, so Longhorn does not take up 10GB of Hard Drive space unless there's otherwise proof of it.) I see two immediate issues:

(1) You know how much debugging it would take Microsoft coders to fix a problem that they can't find so easily? They (eventually) find the problem, recompile the 10GB OS, and test it again. That takes a while. Not to mention, what's going to be in the 10GB? Code? Because if the percentage of the 2GB that took up Hard Drive space on PCs for XP is the same as that for PC Hard Drives for Longhorn, then it's going to take so much longer to write the code, debug, add features, retest the complex GUI, and make sure that with all the complexity involved in the 10GB of GUI code that Longhorn operates as expected.
- Programming issues

(2) Even IF the package was 10GB, how much "dinero" ($$$) is Microsoft going to ask for? Better yet, what is Longhorn Server going to cost? If Windows Server 2003 cost max. $4000 initially, what's Longhorn Server going to cost, with all its high-end props, 3D interface, and needlessly complex coding that is difficult to debug? $6000???? You might as well buy a mini-1TB server using that cash and today's technology.
- Cost


I'm still waiting to find out what the 3D interface is supposed to do actually. Like, for the 3D GUI for Longhorn, can Longhorn be managed easily, not require over-the-top specifications, and, most importantly, have its 3D engine overall outperform two-dimensional operations for things like file navigation, internet browsing, email, text, image/video editing, and the like? If Microsoft can pull that off, then that'll be amazing.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

thats y tiger is coming out. ne one have a release date for tiger? i really hope M$ doesn't leapfrog Apple. I mean, i will still stick w/ my mac, but still... o and with this 6 GHz things..... wonder how expensive they will be? & ppl say PPC is expensive!!!! (wait... what if it runs on PPC? )

y isnt there any legal thing that apple can do about this? its not fair competition!

What is not fair competition?

 

[~Shard~]

Kay, I’m not going to bother reading through the previous 270 posts, so I’m sure this has been said a million times already, but what the hell is up with those system requirements?!? 2 GB of RAM, a TB of disk space, 4-6 GHz processor? Does Microsoft even care anymore that they’re making bloatware which keeps getting bigger, slower, more cumbersome and more of a resource hog? (And as a result, more buggy?) I compare this to the system requirements of Panther and I shake my head – and I can guarantee you that 10.4 Tiger won’t have requirements much greater than Panther’s.

Thank God I use OSX, specifically Panther. New versions don’t require that I upgrade to a DP G5 to run it, and they actually make my system run FASTER and MORE EFFICIENT – wow, what a novel concept for an OS.

You know, it’s really hard not to bash Microsoft when they do things like this...

 

[soosy]

MS discovers transparency, Apple using less and less

I think the transparent Glass windows actually look pretty cool... though it's interesting that going to Panther, OS X has used less and less transparency. Perhaps once the initial coolness of transparency wears off, it is ultimately more usable not to have it. The Glass did look cool though and this makes me dislike Panther's metal interface even more. I wouldn't mind if Apple more drastically revamped Aqua for Tiger rather than an expected tweaking. It's time I checked out Shapeshifter and themes again.

The screens made me realize what I dislike about Windows so much... they pour all this contextual crap into sidebars and topbars. Someone else mentioned XP's left pane thingy in each folder view. It may be simpler for people who can't use a computer, but it just clutters everything up, and ultimately doesn't help people find where the commands are in the main menus. Restrict this crap to right-clicking actions.

I can't stand the My Computer window either.

 

[MorganX]

I'm still waiting to find out what the 3D interface is supposed to do actually. Like, for the 3D GUI for Longhorn, can Longhorn be managed easily, not require over-the-top specifications, and, most importantly, have its 3D engine overall outperform two-dimensional operations for things like file navigation, internet browsing, email, text, image/video editing, and the like? If Microsoft can pull that off, then that'll be amazing.

I believe the actual 3D will be 3D over a 2D UI. I don't think a 3D UI will ever be useful. Just as reading a book is most efficient in 1D, so will a computer UI IMO. There are some specialized applications, like medicine, VR, VR with motion capture etc. But for the desktop, can it ever be more efficient to scroll through a 3D screen? I don't think so, we need smarter faster search in that case, not a true 3D object browsing.

I think the 3D will be things like control panel will have 3D images of the different categories that rotate like a carousel as you scroll through them or similar things.