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Low said:
wow, actually im quite excited to use longhorn. of course those requirements are bogus...kind of nice to see the future of what MS has...im all for it. :)

The problem is that none of the features they have mentioned are ground breaking today. So, in three years they will be old news.

Frank
 
e-coli said:
I've seen the latest internals. They have a new interface and skin called "glass", and, yes, it is very similar in look to OS X.

IMHO, it looks better than OS X.

:(

That doesn't matter when the product isn't going to be released for another 3 years. Hell, Apple is going to introduce a new version of OS X this summer and probably release it within six months of that. They have released a new version every fall for the past three years. If they continue suit then we will probably be three versions past where we are now when Longhorn is actually released.

Frank
 
I think many of you MISS THE POINT

OF COURSE the hardware requirements for Longhorn are going to be HUGE.

OF COURSE it will be vulnerable to hacks and require constant service pack maintenance and a good anti-virus program.

The reason is simply this: too many livelihoods are at stake, besides the obvious ones (Billy-boy and M$).

COMPUTER MAKERS: Computer makers have to "herd" customers into buying new computers, keeping that 2-3 year turnover happening. That's difficult to do these days, seeing that personal computers are already incredibly powerful. My Pismo, circa 2000, can run Panther flawlessly, surf the net just fine (wirelessly), do any word processing/database/spreadsheet work I need it to, host 1.6 GB of iTunes music, and play DVDs. For most users, that's more than enough--and the only way you can get such people to upgrade is by coercing them into it. Make things they do now require new software to remain compatable, then drag them into buying new hardware.

SERVICE & SUPPORT: These people need to eat as well. A stable, mature operating system is less likely to break down or create problems than a new, buggy one. Why do so many people still use 98? It works. Get a newer Windows system running on a client's machine, and the phone to your service center never stops ringing--nor does the cash register.

SOFTWARE DESIGNERS: Nothing empties more pockets than software upgrades that require a new machine or at least a new OS to run properly, or at all. The promise of greater productivity is all the "carrot" you need when being beaten by that "stick." And can you imagine the absolute BOON to virus protection software companies when this thing comes out?

There is an entire dysfunctional, codependent infrastructure that has to be maintained here. The LAST thing service centers and virus software designers want is a STABLE and/or SECURE Longhorn. The buggier and looser, the better.

Mac fans don't always appreciate this, having well-built systems that get replaced every 5 years instead of every 2, never needing tech support of any kind, and not even owning one shred of viral protection software for OSX systems. We don't really endure the same parasitic relationships. We boil it down to just one--the user and Apple. And while Apple is not flawless, the system works for me.

My last virus infection? The "Scores" virus, affecting my 512KE floppies. 1989. My last HD crash? Overloading the 40MB drive on my LC, 1994. This is what Mac support people have to deal with--they get less work per installed user than the Maytag Man.

I won't even begin to tell you the constant stream of problems associated with the HP Pavillions and the Compaq Presario laptops from my previous employment. Yikes.
 
icon4x said:
Sun is rock solid, too, but obsessed with Java. Sun's OSes have typically been real borring, requiring very low system requirements, and teh user having an above average knowledge of Unix. Sun builds some of the most reliable, efficient systems ever built. I've seen Sun boxes run for 5 years in a production environment without any downtime. Sun has never been that user friendly, designed more for use and support by technical professionals (a very limited market), but they are probably some of the most reliable systems ever created.

I wrote this on an Ultra 10.

Java is a great programming language. I'm glad that Sun continually invests the time and effort needed to keep improving it.

Frank
 
SiliconAddict said:
Since went did having an original idea make you the sales leader? As long as someone can come along and copy you your originality will never matter. Marketing on the other hand is king. What do you think got MS to the position it currently is? Sure as heck wasn't the Billy Boys boyish good looks.


I really can't see tiger being that much more of a step above Panther. For the love of god the OS hasn't even been out a year. Assuming that they release it this fall how much can Apple do in a year's timeframe? Build a new 3D GUI in a year? I highly doubt it. Actually, don't hurt me, I'm hoping that Jobs anounces tiger will be out Fall of 2005. Lets see something other this incremental jumping that has been occurring from rev to rev.
Expose was innovative but it and the others features of Panther were just a drop in the bucket difference from Jaguar to Panther. Love or hate Longhorn or what MS is doing with the OS at least MS is going balls to the wall with the OS. Lets see the same with 10.4 Tiger take another 6-8 months and put out something that will blow away and shut up the Thurrotts of the world.


Who's talking about marketing? I was talking about innovation. But since you mentioned it, I hope Apple is learning how to market - ala iPod. However, Apple has never tried to market to the low-end user. They go for the high-end market share.

Ah, but then there's the iPod marketing dream.. teh product that markets itself...
iPod is something that people will buy. A 40GB MP3 player (we know it is more than just an MP3 player) that is compatible with Windows and Mac. It's something people can measure against anything else on the market and see that it crushes anything else out there. How do you crush a 3.4 GHz processor with a 1.6GHz processor, and justify the $1600 price difference (and not even get a new monitor out of the deal)? Most people don't understand the technicals, they want something that will run their windows apps, and allow their kids to write up school reports. If the system lasts 3 years, they are happy. Insecurity? Who cares, they turn it off when they aren't using it, anyway. Why would anyone spend that much money on something that will be obsolete in 6 months, when a $300 computer will do the trick??? Apple doesn't make computers for the $400 computer buyer... mmmmaybe if you count the $799 eMac, but that's stretching the wallet.

Apple doesn't need to go balls to teh wall with Tiger, because they already did with OS X. OS X really is the most advanced OS in the world, but I think they can push harder on the marketing of OS X instead of iMacs, and the new G5. Apple's hardware is awesome, but OS X is by far the core that makes the Apple sweeter.
 
frankly said:
Java is a great programming language. I'm glad that Sun continually invests the time and effort needed to keep improving it.

Frank


I agree, but I don't think Java alone is enough to keep Sun in business.
 
SiliconAddict said:
Since went did having an original idea make you the sales leader? As long as someone can come along and copy you your originality will never matter. Marketing on the other hand is king. What do you think got MS to the position it currently is? Sure as heck wasn't the Billy Boys boyish good looks.


I really can't see tiger being that much more of a step above Panther. For the love of god the OS hasn't even been out a year. Assuming that they release it this fall how much can Apple do in a year's timeframe? Build a new 3D GUI in a year? I highly doubt it. Actually, don't hurt me, I'm hoping that Jobs anounces tiger will be out Fall of 2005. Lets see something other this incremental jumping that has been occurring from rev to rev.
Expose was innovative but it and the others features of Panther were just a drop in the bucket difference from Jaguar to Panther. Love or hate Longhorn or what MS is doing with the OS at least MS is going balls to the wall with the OS. Lets see the same with 10.4 Tiger take another 6-8 months and put out something that will blow away and shut up the Thurrotts of the world.

I'm sure Apple is planning on a 3D OS. There's still 3 (at the least) more releases of Mac OS before Longhorn even comes out... Who's to compare the CURRENT Mac OS to the FUTURE Longhorn
 
Les Kern said:
Is it me or is MS suffering from a bit of Hubris?

Are you referring to the install directly into the recycle bin? If so, while I think that is hilarious, how is it hubris?

Frank
 
I also read that during the presentation, they were doing a comparison between XP and Longhorn on two different computers, and the guy tried to open Quake on the Longhorn PC, and the whole computer froze up. Doesn't surprise me at all.
 
pjkelnhofer said:
Sometimes, I wonder if a lot of the people who buy Macs buy them just because the are not the dominate computer, not because they are simply better designed for what they want a PC to do.

I'd say those are one and the same. Apple is better because they have to be to sell computers with 3% market share. Microsoft doesn't even need to bully and abuse it's market share to keep people on the platform. Windows machines are cheaper, because there are more of them. People are going to buy them by default, because that is what they see. If they don't go buy default, and think about their purchase, realize there ARE other options...they're still likely to stick PC, because if they aren't too tech savvy, it's a hell of a lot easier being on a computer where you can ask anybody a question about it, and they'll answer, than a mac, where most PC users are bewildered. If you use your computer more actively than that, PCs have a lot more going on with them, a lot more people making software, a lot more companies searching for a niche, a lot more compatibility. Not to mention, maybe there's enough with apple, but it as far as what WILL be, nobody can quite say.

That is why apple is so much better than PC's. They have to be, if they want anybody to buy them. There's a hell of a lot of incentive for people to buy winblows boxes, so apple has to provide equal incentive for people to buy macs, just to maintain their market share. Since they can't do this by widnows techniques of dominating the market, they have to make good computers and software.

If apple had 95% market share, and windows had 3%, apple would act like windows, and widnows like apple. Correction: apple would BE windows, and widnows would BE apple.
 
1macker1 said:
Telecommunications work. I've yet to see software for the Mac for DSLAMs, DAX's, VoiceGateWays, Bulk Call testers. These programs work just dandy on 98 - XP, but no Mac support at all.

That isn't what you said originally. Here you are pointing out programs that are only available for Windows. In your original statement you said that Windows was about productivity.

Just because the app is available does not equal productivity.

Take the same type of software on both platforms and see which one is easier to use. That is the question. Most people notice two things:

1) Windows has a tendency to get in your way.
2) Apps written for windows DO NOT follow any standard UI guidelines.

Frank
 
1macker1 said:
With apple aqua interface and XP's bright colors, i think it's time to move on. And the brushed metal concept isn't cutting it.

I prefer brushed metal apps. I absolutely positively LOVE being able to grab the window from any brushed metal part and move it around. That is convenience.

Frank
 
well i can't wait to see how you guys twist everything around when whatever this OS gets called finally comes out and it runs great on a 2.5ghz P4 with a radeon 9800, 1 GB of RAM and has an install size of 2 DVDs and a 15GB hard drive footprint.

I hope someone goes back to this thread and brings it back to life when the official system specs are announced, and we've all seen that the IU is clean and small and functional and fluid and fast and in general just revolutionary, and the WinFS system is actually what it's supposed to be.

You all seem to really, honestly believe that MS's talent isn't as "talented" as apple's...

i wonder why it's so hard for some of you to think rationally and realistically...
 
1macker1 said:
Maybe i'm a new tech junkie, but it looks way cool to me.

The point of an OS is not to "look cool" but to be intuitive. Sorry, but I don't think it is intuitive to have separate locations for every type of storage device. Why should I have to potentially hit the drop down arrow for all of those types of devices? Wouldn't it be easier to simply see the devices that are mounted?

That is the problem with Windows. You see a CD even if there isn't a CD loaded. You see a floppy icon even if a floppy isn't loaded. What a waste. And it makes the OS non-intuitive.

Frank
 
Mac|caM said:
I also read that during the presentation, they were doing a comparison between XP and Longhorn on two different computers, and the guy tried to open Quake on the Longhorn PC, and the whole computer froze up. Doesn't surprise me at all.

Ya and we won't discuss how many times OS X probably froze while it was in Alpha release :rolleyes: Brains. Its not just for rocket scientists anymore. Try this. The entire graphics engine of Longhorn is still in freaking ALPHA! And you are trying to run a game that probably runs right on top of that graphics engine. :rolleyes:
 
zcar86 said:
Man, havn't seen so much windows bashing ever...

That's ok, you should've seen us bashing OSx over on the windows community

Funny how you were wrong though, isn't it?

Funny how all the Windows users I know are jealous of my OS X machines and wish they could run OS X on their machines.
 
mgargan1 said:
I think i've posted this before, but i thought that I would again, just because it has some relevance in this thread. Sun has produced a 3d OS called project "looking glass", and it really looks quite amazing. They show the demo on their website, and the begining is quite boring and dull, but once they get into the meat of the presentation (when they actually show the OS) it's amazing. Here's the link to their looking glass demo: Eat this Microsoft

a bit off topic, but if you check out the video, pay attention to the real media movie on point 00:04:26... it features a very familiar laptop :)
 
It's a hoax. Microsoft isn't that stupid. But did you hear about what kind of video card you need for the interface alone? Much higher than Quartz.
 
i'm not gonna bother reading the comments in this thread. once you've read one OMFG microsuck windowze threads, you've read them all.
 
That's ok, you should've seen us bashing OSx over on the windows community

Wow. That is truly hilarious, especially considering...

wait a sec...

what are you doing on a mac site anyways. I suppose their isn't to much going on in those MS rumor sites huh, that is besides looking at screenshots.

Let me remind all of you that pretty interfaces are nice but making a theme for XP isn't the same as getting a new OS.

EDIT: And now that I read my post I realize that my signiture is more relevant than ever
 
benpatient said:
well i can't wait to see how you guys twist everything around when whatever this OS gets called finally comes out and it runs great on a 2.5ghz P4 with a radeon 9800, 1 GB of RAM and has an install size of 2 DVDs and a 15GB hard drive footprint.

I hope someone goes back to this thread and brings it back to life when the official system specs are announced, and we've all seen that the IU is clean and small and functional and fluid and fast and in general just revolutionary, and the WinFS system is actually what it's supposed to be.

You all seem to really, honestly believe that MS's talent isn't as "talented" as apple's...

i wonder why it's so hard for some of you to think rationally and realistically...

As a clear, rational, and realistic thinker, I can affirmatively say with no uncertainty that Microsoft's talent is not as talented as Apple's.

If you don't believe that, you are living in a dream world. Just look at what OS Window's users are using, and what OS Mac users are using.
 
pjkelnhofer said:
It is just occured to me, a lot of people are making fun of the name Longhorn, but isn't that just the MS codename for it. Wasn't Windows95 called Chicago during are it's alpha/beta days? XP was codename:Whistler. The point is we have no idea what the final release name will be.

Yeah, they're waiting for Apple to come up with a good name, like OS X, so that they can call theirs XP.

So, if Apple's on Lynx when they release it, then they'll probably call it Windows LXs. They'll think that's cool, because it's pronounced 'Windows Licks', and they'll say that Windows no longer sucks. But they'll be wrong.
 
Well then... Longhorn,..and an interface called Glass, very original indeed.... seing is believing I guess, in 2005....when we are running Tiger, or god knows what other furry cat...... My guess is that our feline will have a longhorn for breakfast....
 
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