Microsoft's Longhorn

[jeffbistrong]

MICRSOFT WINDOWS . . . .. . . more complexity

WITH WINDOWS . . . . IT IS SIMPLE . . . THE MORE COMPLEX THE SOFTWARE IS, THE MORE PROBLEMS YOU ARE GOING TO ENCOUNTER, THAT MEANS NEW SECURITY HOLE TO DEAL WITH, NEW UPDATES, MORE WINDOWS VIRUSES THAT ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS . . . . that is how simple it is . . .. WINDOWS NEEDS TO REDESIGN ITS OPERATING SYSTEM FROM THE GROUND UP WITH A UNIX CORE . . . then we can talk about progress . . . becuase microsoft does not make progress . . they make problems

 

[SiliconAddict]

Guys we need to stop referencing Paul Thurrott's site. Its going to curse Macrumors. The guy is the such a Microsoft Brown noser that he's been occasionally mistaken for a flap of toilet paper hanging from Gate's pants.

One of the most irritating quotes I've read from the freak:

There was no way this build was going to be anything less than excellent. It would kick the pony out of the recently released Mac OS X "Panther" and quiet the doubters. Longhorn build 4051 was The Promised Land (tm) and it would not just meet, but exceed, my expectations.

Again toss some OS X CD's over your shoulder for good luck or you may very well jinks macrumors

 

[icon4x]

TIGER

It will be interesting to see what Steve Jobs shows when he releases TIGER at the WWDC in June. I wonder if Apple is revving up Tiger to blow the doors off Bighorn.... er Longgone... er Leghorn....

or maybe Apple just doesn't give a crap what MS is doing, since MS hasn't had an original idea since, uh, ever.

 

[multifinder]

This thread made me realize how dilusional some Mac fans are. Kind of sad to see. The reason I'm switching to a Mac next month is because I think they currently have the best OS, the best working environment, and the best creative-type software available. If Microsoft can provide a better computing experience when I need a new computer after this Powerbook runs its course, I'll gladly drop Apple.

Yeah, but my guess is most of the people on this board would still be saying Apple was superior even if the only OS Apple had right now was Mac OS 9.2. I agree with your point--although I hate Microsoft with an admittedly irrational passion so in my case if Linux got to the point I felt it was better and as easy to use as OS X I'd make my next computer a Linux box.

I think Longhorn has a good chance of sinking under its own weight before it makes it to general release--I think Apple had the right idea and the best way to make a modern OS is to start over, with a Classic mode-like system for legacy compatibility. My experience with XP at work has been it's less stable than Windows 2000, so I can't even imagine how bad Longhorn will be.

 

[whafrog]

I highly doubt those are the system requirements for longhorn. Just remember, the dev team is running it unoptimized and in debug mode... so their computers would have to be much faster than the "system requirements."

Oh please. Unoptimized or not, the real question is: what possible features could Longhorn have that would require that kind of horsepower? Heck, Linux can still run on a 386. I can't think of a single thing the OS should be doing that requires a lot of processing.

 

[nagromme]

"If they have a mac like GUI, not just in function but in form also"

Windows has always, intentionally, been Mac-LIKE. Not good enough.

 

[ipoddin]

I don't see the average computer having a 1tb HD in 2 years...

Maybe it will...400gb hard drive is available now for about $400:

http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.html?i=22025

 

[MorganX]

As posted HERE these bloated requirements are bogus.

 

[MorganX]

It WILL NOT. The feature will come disabled by default. Microsoft has stated this time and again because they don't want to scare the crap out of people.

I don't think it would scare people at all since security is the buzzword. Additionally, everyone is going to have Rights Management. Everyone. Not just iTunes but everyone.

FWIW, Palladium has been dropped for the most part. It will not be in Longhorn, the will use the NX bit in AMD processors and soon Intel processors instead. This is probably the big feature cut that will allow the beta in 2k5 and RTM in early 2k6.

 

[jcshas]

"4-6 GHz 2 gigs of ram and a terabyte of memory" Glad I made the switch! I doubt "Tiger" the next version of OS X will even come close to requiring that much horsepower.

 

[dopefiend]

I just had to register to help this thread die...

As MorganX has said, These specs are fake.

 

[Dippo]

This thread made me realize how dilusional some Mac fans are. Kind of sad to see. The reason I'm switching to a Mac next month is because I think they currently have the best OS, the best working environment, and the best creative-type software available. If Microsoft can provide a better computing experience when I need a new computer after this Powerbook runs its course, I'll gladly drop Apple.

Even you admit that the Mac has the best OS, so how does that make us all delusional?

Microsoft has a deep fundamental problem about how they view software and the world. Unless they plan on doing a complete 180, their next OS won't be any better than their current OS. Sure it will have lots of "new features" and plenty of eye candy, but it will just be the same old stuff just in different wrapping.

 

[armchainmstenw]

Watch silicon based computers suddenly become obsolete right before Longhorn comes out.

 

[negrito]

deceived about this longhorn release

i just looked at some screenshots from the winhec longhorn release and i'm very deceived.

http://www.winbeta.org/winbeta/forums/index.php?showtopic=4324

in fact i was using all windows versions (from 95 to xp) until i switched to mac os x 1 year ago. i'm still interested in how microsoft develops its os and i thought longhorn would be all about user interaction but it's only about silly graphics. i think they forgot that gui includes not only graphics but also user!

i hoped this would be a revolution in how all programm menus are build (which entries where?) up and how you navigate between windows or how you organize you documents. but sadly there is nothing those personalized folder for music, pictures etc are nice but in fact they are overfeatured to be a simple folder and underfeatured to be an application (like iphoto) so what are they for?!

what about a general system preference pane where ALL my system preferences are displayed in ONE window! no they are still clutter over a dozen of windows that don't even show up in my taskbar! http://www.winbeta.org/longhorn/4074/wb-display.properties.gif in addition most preferences are almost 'hidden' somewhere in a window of a button of a tab of tab of a window of a button of a tab.

and how silly is it to put the 'quit' menu entry in the file menu?! or the preference entry in the extras menu?! this menustructure now exists since windows 95 and they didn't even thought about to completely overthink it! to me this longhorn version is like quark xpress 6 where they just added one feature to the other without to think about how to rearrange everything so that is is more efficient and suddendly they were overroled by someone who did it (in this example indesign).

i'm sad because i hoped this os would bring some big advantages to all my friends that are using windows and to me who has to fix it well i hope they will make it better in 2015 with buffalo

 

[SiliconAddict]

WITH WINDOWS . . . . IT IS SIMPLE . . . THE MORE COMPLEX THE SOFTWARE IS, THE MORE PROBLEMS YOU ARE GOING TO ENCOUNTER, THAT MEANS NEW SECURITY HOLE TO DEAL WITH, NEW UPDATES, MORE WINDOWS VIRUSES THAT ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS . . . . that is how simple it is . . .. WINDOWS NEEDS TO REDESIGN ITS OPERATING SYSTEM FROM THE GROUND UP WITH A UNIX CORE . . . then we can talk about progress . . . becuase microsoft does not make progress . . they make problems

First off your caps lock key is apparently stuck either that or, STOP SHOUTING!

Beyond that Unix isn't inherently better then any other OS. Windows HAS the ability to be secure if they didn't recycle code and if they would rewrite the OS from the ground up and that is exactly what they are doing with Longhorn. They are rewriting from the ground up. Do you have any idea how many years longhorn has already been in development? I think they started in Fall of 2002. That is aprox 5 years this OS will be in development. A 5 year development timeframe tells me Microsoft IS taking development seriously. If they weren't serious they could simply pump out an OS next year. (In fact they are coming out with an interim XP release called Windows XP Reloaded.) Like it or not Microsoft has gotten the stability issue resolved with the NT core. Now they need to focus on security. If they can get that right (And from the looks of Windows XP SP2 they may be.) they could have a solid product.

 

[JoeMacDaddy]

Longhorn in 2007

Microsoft is going to make everyone buy all brand new equipment when Longhorn comes out just to run the OS. This will cost companies millions. Since everyone will need to forklift their desktops and servers, they might as well consider alternatives. Applications will have to be rewritten and tested. This could take years. This is a good thing for Apple. If you have to make a radical change to your infrastructure, you might as well evaluate your alternatives.

Since almost half of the MS installed base is running Win95/98 and enterprises are still primarily still Win NT. Everything is up for change.

 

[MorganX]

in fact i was using all windows versions (from 95 to xp) until i switched to mac os x 1 year ago. i'm still interested in how microsoft develops its os and i thought longhorn would be all about user interaction but it's only about silly graphics. i think they forgot that gui includes not only graphics but also user!

i hoped this would be a revolution in how all programm menus are build (which entries where?) up and how you navigate between windows or how you organize you documents. but sadly there is nothing those personalized folder for music, pictures etc are nice but in fact they are overfeatured to be a simple folder and underfeatured to be an application (like iphoto) so what are they for?!

Actually, the eye candy is turned off. You can turn on some of it in the latest beta but not the actual Aero UI. So what's being shown off is everything but graphics.

The GUI doesn't need to be reinvented just continuously refined. And IMO, they have most of what they need. Apple still needs to pervasively and consistently implement context-sensitive menus, yes they're there but not in the consistent pervasive manner they are in Windows. This takes years, and it helps to standardize on a two-button mouse.

Both OS X and XP/Longhorn are more complex than the graphics. I personally feel that the Windows UI lends itself to less obtrusive eye candy, by it's design. In fact, after turning on the effects (not the Aero Shell which has still not been seen) I don't know that I need more. I like the clean industrial look. I would love to see this build of Longhorn with the modest effects turned on running on a 20" iMac. That is computing nirvana. The first one to put them both together will win. MS is trying to push slicker hardware design, and OS X becomes more Windows-like with every patch release (er version).

Please, that's JMO, express yours, don't attack mine.

 

[MorganX]

Microsoft is going to make everyone buy all brand new equipment when Longhorn comes out just to run the OS. This will cost companies millions. Since everyone will need to forklift their desktops and servers, they might as well consider alternatives. Applications will have to be rewritten and tested. This could take years. This is a good thing for Apple. If you have to make a radical change to your infrastructure, you might as well evaluate your alternatives.

Since almost half of the MS installed base is running Win95/98 and enterprises are still primarily still Win NT. Everything is up for change.

This will be my last reply to misinformation but FWIW, Longhorn will scale the user experience to work relatively smoothly on hardware that does not meet the recommended requirements. The screens popping up are actually from the one that will display with no, or underpowered 3D hardware. Wouldn't it be nice if OS X did that?

Basically anyone running 2K or XP will be able to run Longhorn. A DirectX 9, 64MB, AGP 4x (not 8x, not PCI Express) 3D accelerator is all that's needed for the full Aeoro UI experience. They will have word on UMA (cheap Intel unified memory motherboards) soon.

 

[SiliconAddict]

It will be interesting to see what Steve Jobs shows when he releases TIGER at the WWDC in June. I wonder if Apple is revving up Tiger to blow the doors off Bighorn.... er Longgone... er Leghorn....

or maybe Apple just doesn't give a crap what MS is doing, since MS hasn't had an original idea since, uh, ever.

Since went did having an original idea make you the sales leader? As long as someone can come along and copy you your originality will never matter. Marketing on the other hand is king. What do you think got MS to the position it currently is? Sure as heck wasn't the Billy Boys boyish good looks.


I really can't see tiger being that much more of a step above Panther. For the love of god the OS hasn't even been out a year. Assuming that they release it this fall how much can Apple do in a year's timeframe? Build a new 3D GUI in a year? I highly doubt it. Actually, don't hurt me, I'm hoping that Jobs anounces tiger will be out Fall of 2005. Lets see something other this incremental jumping that has been occurring from rev to rev.
Expose was innovative but it and the others features of Panther were just a drop in the bucket difference from Jaguar to Panther. Love or hate Longhorn or what MS is doing with the OS at least MS is going balls to the wall with the OS. Lets see the same with 10.4 Tiger take another 6-8 months and put out something that will blow away and shut up the Thurrotts of the world.

 

[Jonathan Amend]

Let me clear up some confusion:

Longhorn will not take up 1 TB of hard drive space. Those of you who interpreted the article in that way should re-evaluate your reading skills. The article merely said that the average computer at the time of Longhorn's release will have a 1 TB hard drive which is very plausible considering Hitachi just brought out a 400 GB hard drive. Those who are still going on about how Windows is bloatware because Windows 95 took up 150 MB of a 1 GB hard drive, you need to accept that things have changed. The average hard drive size now is about 80 GB and Windows XP takes up about 1.5 to 2 GB including the page/hibernate file. I think it's also worth a mention that a full install of Mac OS X Panther takes up more room than a full install of Windows XP, and that Mac OS X generally has a larger footprint in ram than Windows.

It's true that Mac OS X already has a hardware-accelerated user interface, but how is Microsoft's inclusion of one in Longhorn "copying"? I'd say it's on par with Macs adopting PCI slots or Macs adopting a driver-based system architecture, neither of which I consider "copying" but instead just inevitable technological advancements. The new hardware-accelerated interface renderer (not the new interface itself) is already present in the new 4074 build and enabling it is simple, as this news post explains: http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?id=19692&category=main.

Moore's law also won't be broken any time soon. It might not be Intel itself who is churning out the processors to keep it going but AMD and IBM are doing a pretty good job at it. As for Quake not running on the HP demo PC, I think it was a fluke as they claimed. I was able to play Far Cry just fine in Longhorn build 4053 on my second PC, which is a Duron 1.8 GHz with 512 MB ram and a Geforce FX 5200.

As for Longhorn being designed for high resolutions, it doesn't mean that screens will be huge or that everything will become tiny. Microsoft is anticipating that screens will have a much higher DPI than they do now and Longhorn will take advantage of this by dynamically scaling depending on the screen's size and resolution.

Once again, I'd just like to say that the hardware specs mentioned in the article are only what the speculated average will be at the time of Longhorn's release. They are not the minimum requirements and Longhorn is being to designed with different "modes" so that it can run on older systems less the eye candy among other things. Right now, Mac OS X's minimum requirements lock out a lot more or hardware than those of Windows XP, and I've used XP on a P233 with 64 MB (for which Windows has a special undocumented mode where it will be extremely memory conservative and only take up about 50 MB).

 

[dieselg4]

As long as Adobe, Autodesk, Bentley, Oracle, (insert software compnay name here) make thier newest releases compatible with Win 2k & XP, there will be no compelling reason for companies to make an investment in Longhorn, at least not untill Microsoft pulls the plug on security updates for older OS's. I would wager that companies geta lto more revenue from the software they run over the OS rather than the OS itself.

(word to Apple - convince Autodesk & Bentley to write their major products to OS X)

 

[pjkelnhofer]

As posted HERE these bloated requirements are bogus.

What does that prove is bogus? Those are the graphical requirements for Aero Glass. That is the same thing stated in the original article.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

Microsoft is going to make everyone buy all brand new equipment when Longhorn comes out just to run the OS. This will cost companies millions. Since everyone will need to forklift their desktops and servers, they might as well consider alternatives. Applications will have to be rewritten and tested. This could take years. This is a good thing for Apple. If you have to make a radical change to your infrastructure, you might as well evaluate your alternatives.

Since almost half of the MS installed base is running Win95/98 and enterprises are still primarily still Win NT. Everything is up for change.

How is MicroSoft going to make one buy anything. Like you said many are still in NT. Why would they need to change? If NT works for what they do, then it is not a big deal. NT will still work for them in 2007 when Longhorn comes out.

 

[jessefoxperry]

anyone have any screen shots of Longhorn? im not surprised to hear it looks like osx but i just want to see how bad they copied it. anyone?

 

[gauriemma]

I spoke to soon..

I found these from our friend Paul Thurrott

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/longhorn_4074_01.asp

Geez...That's ugly, even for Windows. And what's with the HUUUUGE clock in the lower right hand corner? Is that so you can accurately count down the seconds until the next OS crash?