Microsoft's Longhorn

[MorganX]

One Note

Just curious, have any Mac users used Office One Note at all? If so, what do you think of it?

 

[jeffbistrong]

Actually MS patches faster than open source and any other OS vendor according to security studies. Most other OS' ARE benefiting from obscuirty. Remember hackers want publicity and fame. You don't get that hacking 2% of the market.

After a vulerability is discovered, that's when hackers write for it. And it's not until tools to allow non-programmers to create exploits does it become a severe problem. Therefore the fastest to patch once a vulnerability is announced is scored highly when determining it's security. That is why Windows has been ranked more secure than Linux, Unix, OSS recently.

Thats becuase MS is good at making upfates and fixes becuase Windows has the most problems . . . .as they say "practice makes perfect" . . . . microsoft has had a lot of practicing of making updates and patches once a security hole is discovered, becuase the a lot of the time, the hole has been exploited and then Microsoft can quickly patch up the system. When was the last apple only virus, that created a big problem. I think it was 2001, am I wrong? I'd say that Microsoft has a problem what every 4-6 months. This can cause a major problem for big companies with a few hundred computers.

 

[jeffbistrong]

i thougt

Just curious, have any Mac users used Office One Note at all? If so, what do you think of it?

i thougth that it is not out yet for mac. . . . isn't it supposed to be released later this month

 

[MorganX]

>>When was the last apple only virus, that created a big problem.<<

As I said, who wants to write an Apple only virus? It would bbe impossible for an Apple-only virus to cause a big problem because it would only have the potential to affect 2% of computers.

>>I think it was 2001, am I wrong? I'd say that Microsoft has a problem what every 4-6 months.<<

If you're going to be this passionate about it you really should check up on your facts about OS vulnerabbilities.

 

[drayab]

The system requirements are ludacris. Intel just scrapped their high speed Pentium 4 / Xeon replacements and I do not think they will be going back any time soon. They have broken the instruction pipeline down into so many sections that it has simply become to complicated to break down any further without losing performance (with bubbles etc) and cranking up the power is making way too much heat. It looks like we're going dual core, good luck getting high yields off of waffers that still have high occurances of imperfections. 2-5 chips per waffer is going to make for some expensive computers. Moore's Law is about to die hard. The future is a new nano manufacturing process and clockless asyncro chips.

 

[Jonathan Amend]

The system requirements are ludacris. Intel just scrapped their high speed Pentium 4 / Xeon replacements and I do not think they will be going back any time soon. They have broken the instruction pipeline down into so many sections that it has simply become to complicated to break down any further without losing performance (with bubbles etc) and cranking up the power is making way too much heat. It looks like we're going dual core, good luck getting high yields off of waffers that still have high occurances of imperfections. 2-5 chips per waffer is going to make for some expensive computers. Moore's Law is about to die hard. The future is a new nano manufacturing process and clockless asyncro chips.

Intel scrapped the P4 plans in favour of extending what is their older P3-M for laptops (Centrino) to desktops. They just got a bit carried away with getting extreme clock speeds but now they're falling back in line with AMD and IBM who are having no troubles making fast chips with lots of transistors and lower clock speeds. I don't think Moore's Law is going anywhere any time soon either, considering that Nvivia's new GPU has 220 million transistors with a 130nm process and AMD, Intel, and IBM all have plans for 65 and 45 nm processes.

 

[sonyrules]

Is there any doubt that Longhorn "bears a resemblance to Mac OS X"? MS is the best at copying.

Would be funny if it started up with an apple logo, wouldnt that bite billy boy in the ***

 

[~Shard~]

Would be funny if it started up with an apple logo, wouldnt that bite billy boy in the ***

Microsoft has always been good at copying Apple, and Longhorn will be no exception. As I said way back when Windows 95 was released: "Microsoft has successfully copied what Mac was doing 10 years ago!"

 

[jeffbistrong]

As they say . . . . .
Macs are for productivity
Palms are for mobility
Linux is for coding
Windows is for solitaire

 

[MacCoaster]

No problems?!

...AMD and IBM who are having no troubles making fast chips with lots of transistors and lower clock speeds. I don't think Moore's Law is going anywhere any time soon either, considering that Nvivia's new GPU has 220 million transistors with a 130nm process and AMD, Intel, and IBM all have plans for 65 and 45 nm processes.

They have no troubles? Then why aren't there new Power Macs already with faster G5s? I mean, 2 GHz for almost one year, and Stevie promised us 3 GHz in one year. AMD, Intel, and IBM are all having the 90nm blues. 65nm and 45nm, HAH! At this rate, that's far, far away.

 

[thatwendigo]

They have no troubles? Then why aren't there new Power Macs already with faster G5s? I mean, 2 GHz for almost one year, and Stevie promised us 3 GHz in one year. AMD, Intel, and IBM are all having the 90nm blues. 65nm and 45nm, HAH! At this rate, that's far, far away.

While I won't deny that everyone and their uncles are having issues at 90nm, it seems that IBM has ironed the process out enough on the G5 that they're delivering 2.0ghz in quantity for the xServes. I still maintain that there are at least two entirely good explanations that don't have to do with issues of 90nm fabrication problems, though. One is that the target slipped because of the faults in the process, and that Apple and IBM jointly decided to hold the supply of ramped processors to ensure instant delivery when the new machines are announecd at WWDC. The other, and the one that I'm even more hopeful (though less serious in my belief) over, is that the 975s are ready, fabbed, and building stock as we speak. Power5 servers are set to ship in June, before the conference, and if the 975/980 successor to the original 970 is ready to roll, Apple may be in the middle of redesigning motherboards to allow the new chips to be demoed and possibly sold the day of the Keynote.

 

[crapple33]

Keep this in mind...

People have been saying, "well, by 2007 we'll obviously have 1-2 terabyte HDs," but they're forgetting a crucial thing. OS X is 1-2 gigabytes, right? And what's the average HD size now? 60-100 gigabytes or so? So OS X takes up about 1-2% of total HD space. Using that value, by the time Longhorn comes around, average HD space will have to be about 60-100 TERAbytes! That's a 500% increase over the next three years! Good luck...

 

[jeffbistrong]

They have no troubles? Then why aren't there new Power Macs already with faster G5s? I mean, 2 GHz for almost one year, and Stevie promised us 3 GHz in one year. AMD, Intel, and IBM are all having the 90nm blues. 65nm and 45nm, HAH! At this rate, that's far, far away.

It has not been a year yet . . . . I mean the G5s were announced in i think June of last years and then went on the shelves and started shipping august or sepetember right?

 

[jeffbistrong]

tera byte

People have been saying, "well, by 2007 we'll obviously have 1-2 terabyte HDs," but they're forgetting a crucial thing. OS X is 1-2 gigabytes, right? And what's the average HD size now? 60-100 gigabytes or so? So OS X takes up about 1-2% of total HD space. Using that value, by the time Longhorn comes around, average HD space will have to be about 60-100 TERAbytes! That's a 500% increase over the next three years! Good luck...

LaCie (www.lacie.com) in the recent months announced the release of their 1 terabyte external HD pricing around $1200 and L Computers is now selling computers with 1 Terabyte of storage. Certain models in their Mach line of computers come with 1 Terabyte of storage. This company could definately be the future of PC manufacturing, they make a flat screen that is 9 feet wide [only some one who does flight emulation or maybe some major graphics or composting would buy this]. If i were to every buy a PC, i would buy this PC.

 

[nubero]

You said the theme and functionality, etc. all would change before release. If all of that will change then what is the purpose of demonstrating it? You know why they are demonstrating it? Because they are going to go five years between OS releases and they want to let the public and their stockholders know that they are still working on something. That is a huge amount of time between updates.

If Apple took that long to update their OS everyone would say they were going out of business. Windows users are so hypocritical about stuff like that.

Frank

Hey man you are so right about this... so right!

By now you would think the always-show-of-and-make-believe strategy of MS should be obvious to anyone...

--- --- --- --- ---
My free Desktop Pictures!
http://homepage.mac.com/nuber

 

[~Shard~]

While I won't deny that everyone and their uncles are having issues at 90nm, it seems that IBM has ironed the process out enough on the G5 that they're delivering 2.0ghz in quantity for the xServes. I still maintain that there are at least two entirely good explanations that don't have to do with issues of 90nm fabrication problems, though. One is that the target slipped because of the faults in the process, and that Apple and IBM jointly decided to hold the supply of ramped processors to ensure instant delivery when the new machines are announecd at WWDC. The other, and the one that I'm even more hopeful (though less serious in my belief) over, is that the 975s are ready, fabbed, and building stock as we speak. Power5 servers are set to ship in June, before the conference, and if the 975/980 successor to the original 970 is ready to roll, Apple may be in the middle of redesigning motherboards to allow the new chips to be demoed and possibly sold the day of the Keynote.

I think that this is quite plausible as well. I don't think it would go over well if Jobs, during his WWDC keynote, proclaims, "I know you've been waiting an entire year, but ehre, finally, are the new PowerMacs! ... Shipping will start in September... Oh, and we have a large order in from Virginia Tech which might push that back even further..." To do it right, Steve should (hopefully) have the new PowerMacs done and ready to ship even that day. It would be beneficial and mroe impressive if he had one of the new beast there at his keynote to demo for everyone as well.

As for the fabrication processes, rededigns, etc., I agree again that there have no doubt been many issues, and Apple + IBM are taking their time in ironing things out and making sure everything is right. I am being patient and understanding with the delay in the PowerMac updates for these reasons, and I know the public won't be disappointed when the updates are announced, whether it be at WWDC or earlier. Well, okay, some people will be, but those are the whiners that are never satisfied...

Hmm, just realized this thread's topic is Longhorn - how'd this get so off-topic? Kay, "Longhorn is a bloated, inefficient, failed attempt to copy OS X". There. Back on topic.

 

[~Shard~]

It has not been a year yet . . . . I mean the G5s were announced in i think June of last years and then went on the shelves and started shipping august or sepetember right?

Wrong actually. The G5s were announced in June of last year, however there are many Mac users, (many of whom are on these forums), who will jump at the chance to correct you that their G5s did NOT ship anywhere near August or September. Did you forget about the whole VT order? People were not receiving their PowerMacs until much later, and for BTO orders, some did not receive their systems until November!

All I can say is it would be a very wise move for Jobs to have the next batch of PowerMacs ready to ship when they are announced. Waiting an entire year for updates to a prodouct line is stretching it enough for many people. But then to announce, at that 1-year mark, that we finally have new updates but they aren't shipping for a few more months on top of that, well, there will be many upset people.

 

[jeffbistrong]

sorry

Wrong actually. The G5s were announced in June of last year, however there are many Mac users, (many of whom are on these forums), who will jump at the chance to correct you that their G5s did NOT ship anywhere near August or September. Did you forget about the whole VT order? People were not receiving their PowerMacs until much later, and for BTO orders, some did not receive their systems until November!

All I can say is it would be a very wise move for Jobs to have the next batch of PowerMacs ready to ship when they are announced. Waiting an entire year for updates to a prodouct line is stretching it enough for many people. But then to announce, at that 1-year mark, that we finally have new updates but they aren't shipping for a few more months on top of that, well, there will be many upset people.

Sorry I am sorta new to the mac world. I just got my first Mac in Feb after waiting many years, so I was not on top of things as I am now, i didnt pay much attention because of my jealousy, i felt i was goin to go crazy. I had 2 stay away from it or else it would interfere with my work. Now that I have my Powerbook G4 that I worked so hard for, I pay more attention to the events in the Mac world. BTW Why is macworld having their expo in Boston . . . they should come back to NY.

 

[MorganX]

WinHEC Longhorn "Not All That"

Making this a quick post but the WinHEC Longhorn is leaving me underwhelmed to say the least. I'll keep this short as I have to run but:

This is pre-pre-Alpha

*Install 24mins (2.4G, 512MB, used 4GB hd space), no user interaction after CDKey and destination.

*UI is pre-pre-pre Alpha. Clearly just a hint o what's to come but it's terribly rough and way to busy. Not for consumers. The beta will probably not resemble the current UI experience. It's too much, too "tech preview". Cannot possibly be close to the real thing.

*Common dialogs are an ugly, cluttered, useless, incomplete mess. This can't be anything close to what even the bbeta will look and feel like. Very unintuitive and inefficient.

*Icon design has take and major step backwards if they keep what's in this build.

*With GPUs tuned specifically for DirectX, Avalon performs effortlessly. Clearly graphic performance will not be an issue. If Quartz is a panther, Avalon is a rocket.

*You can see some good ideas but this stuff is too ugly and confusing for a consumer UI. This is geek stuff right now. Don't count on Aero looking like what you're seeing now. Some of the 3D concepts hinted at show MS is not going to overuse it and use it only where it makes sense, that's good because it doesn't make sense in a whole lot of places. A 3D rolodex for folders containing images and movies would be nice.

*Hard Disk performance is pre-alpha and the only area that worries me, it's not good but drivers don't appear to be optimized and I doubt there's much IO caching going on.

*The most useful PowerToys will become standard, nice.

*The side dock is obtrusive extending into the taskbar. on a Widescreen it's fine except for that. I pray the release does not portrude into the taskbar. You can get the full taskbar but that removes the side dock. This is terrible design. I hope they shorten it up, I won't use it the way it is.

I've used every Alpha I've gotten over the years on a daily basis, except for the nightmare called WindowsME. This one is simply too Alpha.

This is a tease, a red herring, and concept release. The underlying stuff is useful but for UI, MS isn't showing a thing. Maybe after WWDC.

 

[jeffbistrong]

I've used every Alpha I've gotten over the years on a daily basis, except for the nightmare called WindowsME. This one is simply too Alpha.

This is a tease, a red herring, and concept release. The underlying stuff is useful but for UI, MS isn't showing a thing. Maybe after WWDC.

How do you become a Beta Tester?

 

[dopefiend]

How do you become a Beta Tester?

Subscribe to MSDN or just download the suckers.

 

[kotovasii]

This is THE reply!

I think i've posted this before, but i thought that I would again, just because it has some relevance in this thread. Sun has produced a 3d OS called project "looking glass", and it really looks quite amazing. They show the demo on their website, and the begining is quite boring and dull, but once they get into the meat of the presentation (when they actually show the OS) it's amazing. Here's the link to their looking glass demo: Eat this Microsoft

If you actually listen to what they say - it is clearly aimed at UNIX-like environment, and open community. Mac OS X has very close connections and integration with Java, and I shall not be surprised if Mac OS XI will be done using this ( "looking glass" ) technology...
As far as M$ is concerned -- I am personally very much for a new operation system - the more competition there is to Mac OS X the better it is for Mac community - they (Apple) will have to move faster and come out again with something great. I am actually a Linux/Win user, but now switching to a Mac because I am tired of dual boot ;-)
regards!

 

[thatwendigo]

LaCie (www.lacie.com) in the recent months announced the release of their 1 terabyte external HD pricing around $1200 and L Computers is now selling computers with 1 Terabyte of storage. Certain models in their Mach line of computers come with 1 Terabyte of storage.

The Big Disk unit is a hardware RAID array, using four 250GB disks and performace striping to link them. There doesn't appear to be any obvious link to a "Mach line of computers" on the LaCie site, though.

This company could definately be the future of PC manufacturing, they make a flat screen that is 9 feet wide [only some one who does flight emulation or maybe some major graphics or composting would buy this].

There also doesn't seem to be any nine foot LCD screen on the site. Could I have a link to it, if you possess such a thing?

I think that this is quite plausible as well. I don't think it would go over well if Jobs, during his WWDC keynote, proclaims, "I know you've been waiting an entire year, but ehre, finally, are the new PowerMacs! ... Shipping will start in September... Oh, and we have a large order in from Virginia Tech which might push that back even further..." To do it right, Steve should (hopefully) have the new PowerMacs done and ready to ship even that day. It would be beneficial and mroe impressive if he had one of the new beast there at his keynote to demo for everyone as well.

If the machines exist, even as engineering samples, Steve will have one at the Keynote. I think that he knows better than to let even the perception of a full year slip by with only inaction as the commentary, because most of us love Apple, but a lot of people are making a living on the platform. The trust and faith in the man can only go so far, and while I believe myself to be more forgiving than most, it doesn't change that people other than me will jump if the hardware doesn't stay current - especially now that we've hit a point we're competitive at.

As for the fabrication processes, rededigns, etc., I agree again that there have no doubt been many issues, and Apple + IBM are taking their time in ironing things out and making sure everything is right. I am being patient and understanding with the delay in the PowerMac updates for these reasons, and I know the public won't be disappointed when the updates are announced, whether it be at WWDC or earlier. Well, okay, some people will be, but those are the whiners that are never satisfied...

Indeed.

I'd rather IBM and Apple had everything in working order, built up quantity, and then released. Everyone whines about how Apple doesn't care about consumers, how it's their way or no way, and that there's no follow through. Yet, if they actually do something positive and pursue a course of action that very well could be ending in a well-stocked and ready-to-roll product line, people complain. I'd be amazed if anyone who's doing the loudest grousing has any experience with manufacturing in high-tech, especially in short run fields.

Hmm, just realized this thread's topic is Longhorn - how'd this get so off-topic? Kay, "Longhorn is a bloated, inefficient, failed attempt to copy OS X". There. Back on topic.

You forgot ugly.

 

[u3b54]

Longhorn vs Looking Glass

That's what people who think Longhorn looks good are doing obviously, it's the usual lackluster ho-hum M$'s "engineers" make... yawn, please people, get an aesthetic clue.

Now the 3D Sun video, THAT'S amazing! That gives OS X a run for it's money, but Longhorn, if that's attractive then people need glasses, it comes in a distant third behind OS X and Sun's potential new OS.

Let's be clear - LookingGlass is NOT a new OS... It's effectively a new GUI that sits on top of an existing OS. Many users inside Sun have been running it on top of Sun's JDS - Java Desktop System, otherwise known as Linux - for quite a while.

It is, as the videos suggest and many people have said, "way cool".

btw. has anyone spotted the similarity between the naming of Aero Glass and Looking Glass ? What's that all about then?

 

[jeffbistrong]

The Big Disk unit is a hardware RAID array, using four 250GB disks and performace striping to link them. There doesn't appear to be any obvious link to a "Mach line of computers" on the LaCie site, though.

I am sorry . . . the 1 Tb in the Mach computer does not have anything to do with LaCie i was just making a point that some of the newer more innovative companies are putting larger hard drive into their computer

There also doesn't seem to be any nine foot LCD screen on the site. Could I have a link to it, if you possess such a thing?

Sorry I forgot to mention L computers' website. It is www.go-l.com The 9 foot LCD is here http://www.go-l.com/monitors/grand_canyon/features/index.htm. If my calculations are correct [they might not be . . i did the conversion in my head] then 92 inches is like 9 feet or maybe 8. . . . . . . . Ok I am sorry . . I did the conversion wrong it is like 7.6 feet. hey but that is still pretty big and costs a nice amount of money. I wish i had a 92" screen. dont you?

The Big Disk unit is a hardware RAID array, using four 250GB disks and performace striping to link them. There doesn't appear to be any obvious link to a "Mach line of computers" on the LaCie site, though.

I was not talking about the Big Disk unit. I was talking about the Bigger Disk unit located at http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10118