Microsoft's Shifting Strategy in Response to Apple

[mdriftmeyer]

Wake me up when Balmer grasps Cocoa/OSX

and the fundamental design concepts behind NeXT/Apple's approach to OS Design.

Until that End of Days arrives he'll continue to see Apple growing in Marketshare and installed base.

 

[ErikCLDR]

Like usual I think Microsoft has missed the boat again.

 

[MattInOz]

Competitive pressures are not the engine of Apple's quality.....

Competition is relevant for all those companies' missions of delivering "better." But competition is irrelevant to Apple's mission of delivering the BEST. If they were the only computer company on earth with a 100% monopoly, I believe they/Steve would still be constantly improving their products in trying to deliver the best. That is what drives them.

Well True on one level, Apple will continue to be Apple regardless of what the competition is doing.
Although Apple still works in a market, competition pushes the market, Apple and select others push the market to provide good things. Dell and others push the market to provide cheap things including those good things.

As stuff gets cheaper Apple uses the cream to do something new.
The more competitive the market place the more cream Apple have to use and maintain price point.

Although If ConfCall Comments are anything to go by Apple want to bring their Laptop price points down, and still improve specs.

 

[Syrus28]

Like usual I think Microsoft has missed the boat again.

Why?

 

[Hooka]

welcome to the party....

 

[gnasher729]

And the decision to buy Next was made by one Apple's worst CEO's, Gil Amelio. What if Next was actually more successful than it was? Next might never have been up for acquisition. Etc...

I think you severely underestimate Gil Amelio. He came to Apple when Apple was in big, big trouble. He and Ellen Hancock are responsible for Apple _not_ going down the toilet. Amelio was responsible for Steve Jobs returning to Apple, and he was responsible for there being something to return to. And he set himself up to be thrown out, leaving in what was the best possible way for Apple - not for him.

 

[137489]

Great and I'm not forced to use Windows because I can dual boot Ubuntu. As for Parallels, did that copy of Windows come free with your Mac? I don't think so - you bought it because the OS on the Mac didn't run them. So, and here's the irony, you bought a Mac and were forced to use Windows anyway!

Now please provide a rebuttal to the points I raised earlier or stop pathetically piggybacking on other people's posts when you don't understand the issues, k?

Umm actually Windows and parallels was free (after rebates). so . I only chose to get it because of specialized software for my employment (which requires me to lean .net and MS-SQL server. Otherwise I would not have it.


and yes I will put you on my ignore list because you are arrogant and fail to see anyone elses views but your own. Go buy a PC and leave this forum. Bye. It's obvious you only joined to rip apple users.

And What do I hate about office 2007:

1. They took away the option to scan directly to a document.
2. The ribbon is so hard to work with.
3. 90% of people are still using a lower version, so i either have to specially save my document or they are forced to get a download to see mine.
4. Creating charts in Excel are harder than they user to be.
5. copy/paste from word to outlook does not work 1/2 the time.
6. I had to bring a word document into iwork's pages to get it to format properly.
7. every document opens in a view mode, which I have to close to edit the document.

I have ditched most of my personal MS software. It was too expensive as compared to the mac version.

Omnigraffle combines the functionality I had in viso+ smartdraw. I would rather use 1 product then have to keep importing and exporting between 2.

OneNote chews diskspace due to the auto backups and the cache file, Circus Ponies does 95% of the same thing with even more features and cost less.

Need I go on? For my job I spend 75% of my day in in some type of office product. Office 2007 makes my job harder. Most of the time I either go to pages or 2003.

Plus I am in a home based office (in other word, I work out of my house) - so I have my mac next to me, do what I need and then save it in an office format for the rest of the company.

and as for BSOD - MS Windows BSOD for just about anything. Here at work the us Robotics modem driver causes Windows to puke. USR - the #1 modem maker in the world. A lot of people still rely on modems where broadband is not avaialable, or a company wants total security and does not want to stick there machine on the internet. Also, I work with a proprietary OS most of the time.

Any one care to give a show of hands on how many times Windows BSOD on them for little to no reason?

 

[gnasher729]

Exactly.. Its ridiculous

Want a small screen? $1100+ MacBook
Want a dedicated GPU? $2000+ MacBook Pro
Want a light laptop? $1800+ MacBook Air
Want a all-in-one? $1200+ iMac
Want a real desktop? $2800+ Mac

What happens when I want a light laptop with screen <15 inches and dedicated GPU? What about a 15 inch with a integrated GPU? What If I want a desktop, but would like to use my own screen, but don't want to pay $3000?

In the first case, you buy a MacBook Air and everyone will be looking when you use it in public and I am sure you won't miss the dedicated GPU at all. In the second case, you buy a MacBook Pro and you will be happy how fast the graphics is for games. In the third case, you buy a MacPro, and instead of worrying about the money you spent you can be happy how fast that machine runs.

It doesn't matter to Apple what you want. What matters is that you buy their product, they make money, and you end up being happy with what you bought.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

I think you severely underestimate Gil Amelio. He came to Apple when Apple was in big, big trouble. He and Ellen Hancock are responsible for Apple _not_ going down the toilet. Amelio was responsible for Steve Jobs returning to Apple, and he was responsible for there being something to return to. And he set himself up to be thrown out, leaving in what was the best possible way for Apple - not for him.

Seeing as I lived it, I can attest that us at NeXT were in the midst of an IPO that was scrapped for the Apple Merger. Instead of Java being supplanted everywhere, NeXT being the leader then in largescale Enterprise Web Services would have expanded WOF and much more instead of turning it into a niche relic.

The merger would definitely not have been possible without Ellen Hancock's advice to Gil and Gil being astute enough, after a few private demonstrations of unreleased versions of Openstep and much more, to realize that if he cared two cents about Apple as their CEO he'd better merge with NeXT and buy all that IP.

He wanted Steve at his discretion which Fred Anderson and others saw as not possible. Gil wanted OS X with Rhapsody [which was inevitable but he was willing to drop OS 8/9 without much of a transition and that was his greatest mistake] yet didn't know how to drive it.

Ellen Hancock was a very cordial, warm woman who really didn't grasp that her place was going to be supplanted by Avie once Fred Anderson and the board convinced Steve to come back as interim CEO. She took it deeply personal to being less in charge. She should have expected it as she knew nothing of NeXT Technologies other than she knew it was far more advanced than anything at Apple.

 

[sushi]

zPhone, that is just funny to say.

Sounds best if said with a French accent!

I think you severely underestimate Gil Amelio. He came to Apple when Apple was in big, big trouble. He and Ellen Hancock are responsible for Apple _not_ going down the toilet. Amelio was responsible for Steve Jobs returning to Apple, and he was responsible for there being something to return to. And he set himself up to be thrown out, leaving in what was the best possible way for Apple - not for him.

Gil bringing back SJ was the best thing he did.

He realized that Apple has a unique corporate structure, and he was not cut out for it. Thankfully.

At that time, Gil was going in way to many directions with too many products. SJ killed one of my favorites, the Newton, but it was needed to focus Apple's efforts on a core set of offerings, both consumer and professional.

Now Apple is expanding their offerings but doing it with a purpose and plan. This is much unlike when SJ was not part of Apple. During those times, the shotgun approach seemed to be in vogue.

Microsoft needs to get focused on their core efforts such as Windows 7. Vista has not been good for them.

 

[rdrr]

and as for BSOD - MS Windows BSOD for just about anything. Here at work the us Robotics modem driver causes Windows to puke. USR - the #1 modem maker in the world. A lot of people still rely on modems where broadband is not avaialable, or a company wants total security and does not want to stick there machine on the internet. Also, I work with a proprietary OS most of the time.

What is a Modem?

 

[Syrus28]

In the first case, you buy a MacBook Air and everyone will be looking when you use it in public and I am sure you won't miss the dedicated GPU at all. In the second case, you buy a MacBook Pro and you will be happy how fast the graphics is for games. In the third case, you buy a MacPro, and instead of worrying about the money you spent you can be happy how fast that machine runs.

So basically, be happy with what they give me? I'm afraid that's not good enough for the mainstream.

It doesn't matter to Apple what you want. What matters is that you buy their product, they make money, and you end up being happy with what you bought.

This logic is flawed. How can I be happy if I purchase a Mac knowing its not what I want? I'm not saying Apple should offer endless customization options, I'm saying that this "model" will not be sustainable if Apple truly wants to grab a significant market share.

 

[clevin]

If they would just focus on creating an entirely new and RELIABLE OS they may just keep Apple under wraps.

reliable? under the wrap? how does windows unreliable? and how is 95% v 4% not "under the wrap"?

In the first case, you buy a MacBook Air and everyone will be looking when you use it in public and I am sure you won't miss the dedicated GPU at all. In the second case, you buy a MacBook Pro and you will be happy how fast the graphics is for games. In the third case, you buy a MacPro, and instead of worrying about the money you spent you can be happy how fast that machine runs.

It doesn't matter to Apple what you want. What matters is that you buy their product, they make money, and you end up being happy with what you bought.

I guess when you are rich, there isn't much to complain......

 

[Eraserhead]

a. And?

As it isn't making money that is a problem.

c. And you know this how?

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/ne...-requires-large-investment-wont-pay-off-soon/ EDIT: Also if it was making a profit they'd mention it in their earnings statement (linked below).

d. And that has to do with the Zune how?

Because the Zune is competing with the iPod Touch.

Microsoft attributes the profits to the Xbox 360

Microsoft said the main reason for profit came the Xbox Division, so we don't need to speculate on whether it did or didn't.

No, Xbox drove Revenue, not profit:

Revenue growth was driven primarily by ... increased Xbox 360 platform sales,

(source)

Halo, as you know, is part of the Xbox properties, so why are we separating it?

Just because one game series makes a profit doesn't mean the console is successful overall. Especially when it has been roundly trashed by the Wii, and is currently not selling as well as the PS3 (and this has been true all year, although by a small margin).

And they care about market share too.

Only because selling more machines makes more money. But if they really cared about market share they'd be selling far more Macs under $1000.

 

[MacFly123]

oh yeah, take his words, he also said windows dominant mac 30-1.

So your saying that Microsoft HAS provided the user experience people desire, even when their very own C.E.O. is admitting that they have not??? Ok then

Yes, multi-touch is just oh-so complex for a company who has demonstrated the capibility (Surface)...

Ya surface is just a wonderful implementation that everyone is bound to replace their coffee tables with lol. The fact is, implementing Multi-Touch hardware and user-experience standards is not going to be an easy task accross the industry. Hence the reason that there are already organizations seeking to monitor and establish standards in that arena.

We are talking about an entirely new way to interact with a computer and all of the software on it, native and 3rd party. There is a lot more to it then just popping in a touch screen.

On a large scale (PC), no, there's not. On the phone side, there definitely is, but I doubt its going to arise because they just despise Microsoft so much, considering they aren't anywhere near the top of the chain there.

Is it so hard to admit that people and companies might seek other alternatives because they are not satisfied with what Microsoft is offering? Gee, why did Google make ANDROID? I just don't get it because there is no room for it since Windows Mobile is such a stellar product. Wow!

 

[gnasher729]

You argument is fundamentally flawed. Business management 101 will tell you that the purpose of a business is to make profit, not necessarily to be the best. Apple is a business like any other and that is their biggest purpose.

I know a guy who wrote his dissertation about the goals of businesses, or more precisely, the goals of their leaders. What he found was that making profits was nowhere near the top of the list. Two of the greatest motivations were (a) having power to f*** people and (b) having power to help people (obviously these two don't apply to the same people). Making your mark on the world was important. Putting money in your own pocket was important for some. Making profits for the shareholders was definitely not top priority. Even for businesses run by their owner where company profit equals money in the pocket, making profit was _not_ the biggest motivation. Now that wasn't Business Management 101; it was the more advanced version. He didn't write how businesses should be run, but how they _were_ run.

Apple does most definitely not run its business with the intention to make profit or to please its shareholders. The fact that Apple makes profits comes from the lucky coincidence that many people actually _want_ the best computer in the world, and that Macs are not cheap, but easy within the range of many people. But the actual motivation behind everything is the will to make the best products possible.

 

[Eraserhead]

And What do I hate about office 2007

People hated the iPod too when it first came out, even on this forum.

and as for BSOD - MS Windows BSOD for just about anything.

You must run really awful PC's because it really doesn't in my experience at all.

Apple does most definitely not run its business with the intention to make profit or to please its shareholders

Whatever their motivation they have been one of (if not the) most successful tech company of doing that this century.

Go buy a PC and leave this forum. Bye. It's obvious you only joined to rip apple users.

Except that he doesn't just rip Apple users, he's actually fairly neutral.

 

[137489]

You must run really awful PC's because it really doesn't.

Most of my problems have been with DELL (need I say More) or AMD.... oh and a couple of Gateways I had to help people with. IBM (before lenovo) was pretty solid.

 

[thecartoonguy]

Why?

If I had to guess, I would say MS is just now fighting back instead of when the first Apple ad rolled out. In my honest thought, MS thinks nothing will or could ever touch them. Ten years ago, they would be correct. Since IBM made the ever regrettable deal to include DOS on each computer they missed a chance to be in every home. Yes they tried with their own OS system but again, too little too late. If Ms can't release a solid OS, which is their main source of income, what makes them think they can release a ...giggle...zune phone. The zune itself appears to be O.K at best. Nothing more than an attempt at the iPod with the typical MS thinking within it. I'm not anti MS, I am just so weary of the same old nonsense from a company who can release an OS with so many problems.

 

[thecartoonguy]

Most of my problems have been with DELL (need I say More) or AMD.... oh and a couple of Gateways I had to help people with. IBM (before lenovo) was pretty solid.

Do you happen to remember the Packard Bell computers? Shutter......

 

[IJ Reilly]

Has anybody else actually sat down and read Ballmer's entire memo to his employees? What an exercise in corporate-speak. He uses the word "incredible" six times. Perhaps he feels the need to use it so often because Microsoft has a credibility problem.

You also have to like the way he is planning on addressing the "lingering doubts" about Vista -- with a massive advertising campaign. It's bad enough that he's got to acknowledge that his customers have doubts about the company's most important product. But his solution is pure Microsoft -- instead of removing those "lingering doubts" by actually make the product better, he hoping people won't notice if they market the thing ever harder.

 

[thecartoonguy]

Umm actually Windows and parallels was free (after rebates). so . I only chose to get it because of specialized software for my employment (which requires me to lean .net and MS-SQL server. Otherwise I would not have it.


and yes I will put you on my ignore list because you are arrogant and fail to see anyone elses views but your own. Go buy a PC and leave this forum. Bye. It's obvious you only joined to rip apple users.

And What do I hate about office 2007:

1. They took away the option to scan directly to a document.
2. The ribbon is so hard to work with.
3. 90% of people are still using a lower version, so i either have to specially save my document or they are forced to get a download to see mine.
4. Creating charts in Excel are harder than they user to be.
5. copy/paste from word to outlook does not work 1/2 the time.
6. I had to bring a word document into iwork's pages to get it to format properly.
7. every document opens in a view mode, which I have to close to edit the document.

I have ditched most of my personal MS software. It was too expensive as compared to the mac version.

Omnigraffle combines the functionality I had in viso+ smartdraw. I would rather use 1 product then have to keep importing and exporting between 2.

OneNote chews diskspace due to the auto backups and the cache file, Circus Ponies does 95% of the same thing with even more features and cost less.

Need I go on? For my job I spend 75% of my day in in some type of office product. Office 2007 makes my job harder. Most of the time I either go to pages or 2003.

Plus I am in a home based office (in other word, I work out of my house) - so I have my mac next to me, do what I need and then save it in an office format for the rest of the company.

and as for BSOD - MS Windows BSOD for just about anything. Here at work the us Robotics modem driver causes Windows to puke. USR - the #1 modem maker in the world. A lot of people still rely on modems where broadband is not avaialable, or a company wants total security and does not want to stick there machine on the internet. Also, I work with a proprietary OS most of the time.

Any one care to give a show of hands on how many times Windows BSOD on them for little to no reason?

You have just helped me with a mystery. I could not remember Circus Ponies to save my life. Many thanks as my brain was about to fry..

 

[rdowns]

Dear Mr. Ballmer

Forget the Zune, you have no brand here. A Zune phone would be a failure. You need to call your phone the Xbox phone, it would sell.

Please remit payment for this marketing consultation to me through this forum.

 

[queshy]

People hated the iPod too when it first came out, even on this forum.

Heh, good thing Apple didn't listen to those whiners! Nice post BTW.

 

[chas0001]

What it does prove is that Apple can be just a ***** as Microsoft. Just look as the past 2 weeks. Apple have shown themselves to be just as incompetent with new hardware and software releases.