Microsoft's Windows 8 to Include an App Store Too

[thejadedmonkey]

Apple needs to sue Microsoft for the app store and the mobile platform that mac osx lion has
/snip

I'm assuming you've never used Linux, which has a built in repository of apps. The only real difference is that you've probably never used linux and don't know about it.

KnightWRX et al., thank god there's a voice of reason. The utter mention of Windows 8 + App Store seems to have brought out every single Apple fanatic.

 

[divinox]

MacOS has always had the Applications folder. Windows has always had the Programs Files folder. MacOS has .app files for executables. Windows has .exe files. Apple called the programs on iOS "apps" from day 1. I never heard Windows software called anything but 'software' or 'programs'. I don't really care, but let's not act like the term 'app' was the typical name for software until Apple started using it.

Let's say that Linux stormed into the mainstream over the last 10 years instead of Apple. They start a store and call it the Bin Store because they historically called their executables 'binaries' and put them in /bin. Now everyone starts a 'Binary Store'. Does Linux own the word 'binary'? No. Does it really make since for Windows to start using 'binary' because of its new popularity? No.

Its listed as "Application(s)" in the "file explorer" (or whatever its called). Has been that way for at least a couple of years. Screenshots posted in this very thread showing this fact. Not sure when they started with this practice.

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You know that I'm continuously amused and amazed just how many “Windows fanboys” are signed up on an APPLE site.

We are not fanboys; we like technology. Sometimes that technology happens to run Windows, sometimes OSX. Sometimes its made by Samsung, sometimes its made by Apple. To us, the technology itself is more important than the brand name on the box. Can you look yourself in the mirror and say the same? Really?

 

[Flitzy]

If it's anything like that hideous Windows 8 UI, I don't think Apple has anything to worry about.

Seriously, does Microsoft have ANY good UI designers? That is.. absolutely atrocious.

 

[divinox]

If it's anything like that hideous Windows 8 UI, I don't think Apple has anything to worry about.

Seriously, does Microsoft have ANY good UI designers? That is.. absolutely atrocious.

At least they are doing something. Grid of icons is a bit... yeah, 80's? Time to at least try and move beyond the desktop metaphor, shall we?

Looks great on the Xbox, will look great on the pad, just as nice on the TV. You see, MSFTs designers think beyond "one device", they want "one experience to rule them all". This far, its look like they are getting close. I guess that is what scares you. Why else would you feel the need to post useless rants.

 

[Stevamundo]

That was what I was thinking. This is actually an interesting topic, both in terms of how to design the integration with the rest of the OS and the policies around actually running the store compared to Apple's approach. Instead the discussion is about the bloody name! Again! ...And it's not even like the thread degenerated into mud slinging. It never was anything else.

Every time Microsoft, Google, Adobe, HTC, Nokia, or Samsung is mentioned in an article some Pavlovian reflex goes off and the thread is almost nothing but tiny variations over the theme "<insert competiter's name here> suck!".

A topic summary so far:

* Apple invented App Stores. Microsoft suck!
* Apple invented Applications. Microsoft suck!
* If you don't find my love for Apple completely rational and appropriate, you should go to a different site. This forum is for Mac users, and Real Mac Users agree that everything Microsoft does will suck!
* The (as of yet, unreleased) Windows 8 touch GUI sucks, although I haven't tried it.
* Windows 7 sucks, BTW.

The lowest common denominator on MacRumors is really low.

THAT'S MY POINT! Thank you macsmurf.

 

[Stevamundo]

So you're saying we should never go above this level of dumb discussion you're portraying by bringing up facts about the competition's product ?

No seriously, do you even have a point ?

As a Mac user, and iOS owner, a big-iron Unix systems administrator with some work experience with Microsoft enterprise solutions in the past, a Linux junky of over a decade, I am not allowed to correct mistakes made or assumptions by other people looking to bash Apple's product because I'm on a site about discussing rumors for Apple products ?

Is that what you're saying ? I shouldn't even be here because I'm not 100% Apple ?



I think you don't need to look farther than your nose to find who is lowering the level of discussion around these parts.

There should be a rule against questioning why others are on this site because they either don't agree with something Apple does or post something positive about Apple's competition. It should be a bannable offense. Seriously, at least the people who I correct are just ignorant of the real nature of what they are bashing. People like you who simply tell others that they don't belong here are quite on another level of offensive. It's almost akin to racism.

Really? Can't people friggin read anymore?

I CHALLENGE ANYONE to read my post then accuse me of favoritism to exclude of ANYONE in here.

I swear that sometimes when I read this crap I get dumber.

Your comments above are beyond stupid.

 

[twoodcc]

of course they are. they must copy apple, right?

 

[divinox]

of course they are. they must copy apple, right?

except for the fact that MSFT included a digital store before Apple did, and that the idea itself has been implemented in Linux for like a decade, yeah - they really must copy Apple. Apple invented everything after all, so it's impossible not to.

 

[Stevamundo]

except for the fact that MSFT included a digital store before Apple did, and that the idea itself has been implemented in Linux for like a decade, yeah - they really must copy Apple. Apple invented everything after all, so it's impossible not to.

Of course Apple invented everything.

If idiots on here didn't totally misunderstood my post. I said it it just amuses me why Windows fanboys sign up on here. Well it's because I know that it's going to lead to this STUPID ARGUING.

I also said that all comes down to matter of preference. That's it! Both PC with Windows and the Mac with OS X let you do some incredible things.

 

[adder7712]

of course they are. they must copy apple, right?

Linux distros say otherwise.

I've used Windows 98/ME/XP/7, Mac OS X 10.5/10.6/10.7 and a plethora of Linux distros through VMs and a dedicated desktop running Ubuntu.

 

[divinox]

Of course Apple invented everything.

If idiots on here didn't totally misunderstood my post. I said it it just amuses me why Windows fanboys sign up on here. Well it's because I know that it's going to lead to this STUPID ARGUING.

I also said that all comes down to matter of preference. That's it! Both PC with Windows and the Mac with OS X let you do some incredible things.

And we (sorry for speaking for others) are still, as stated, not Windows fanboys. "We're just sane (tm)". :- )

 

[KnightWRX]

I CHALLENGE ANYONE to read my post then accuse me of favoritism to exclude of ANYONE in here.

Seems to me you're trying to discredit anyone that posted anything to counter the anti-microsoft propaganda filled with lies with what I quoted. Here, let me refresh your memory :

You know that I'm continuously amused and amazed just how many “Windows fanboys” are signed up on an APPLE site

Which Windows fanboys are you talking about then ? I've seen a few Apple users (myself included) correct factual errors that some less knowledgeable folk made in their haste to bash Microsoft.

I signed up here because I'm an Apple user. Are you amused by me because think I'm a MS fanboy because I know about MSIs ? Because I realise that the concept of the App Store is not some kind of Apple exclusive ?

Your post was incendiary and hinting that anyone coming in here with facts were Windows fanboys and that we signed up here to cause trouble. Your gross generalization drew the ire you got, not some kind of reading deficiency on our part.

 

[kdarling]

Its listed as "Application(s)" in the "file explorer" (or whatever its called). Has been that way for at least a couple of years.

At least since Windows 2000 over ten years ago. Applications and of course DLLs were "application extensions".

I don't really care, but let's not act like the term 'app' was the typical name for software until Apple started using it.

"App" has been used by developers going back at least to 1960.

My resume from 1980 says that I was an "embedded app" programmer.

 

[AppleScruff1]

At least since Windows 2000 over ten years ago. Applications and of course DLLs were "application extensions".

View attachment 299807



"App" has been used by developers going back at least to 1960.

My resume from 1980 says that I was an "embedded app" programmer.

But Steve thought of it before 1960.

 

[Dbrown]

Windows had an app store long before apple did. It's called steam

 

[Savor]

Apple and Microsoft are both a GUI "Xerox copy" anyway.

XEROX and the GUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0nAX8g2FOw

Fanboys, can't we all just get along?

SMH

I like Bill Gates more than Steve Jobs. More charitable and kind. (1997 MacWorld in Boston)

I like Apple products more than Microsoft products.

In the end, I really could care less who is better in what. Microsoft may always get ridiculed for stealing Apple's ideas, but at least the WP7/Windows 8 UI tries to be different unlike Google who is acting like Microsoft from the 1980's towards Apple in this century. Friends but was making another OS behind Apple's back. History can tend to repeat itself.

 

[Stevamundo]

And we (sorry for speaking for others) are still, as stated, not Windows fanboys. "We're just sane (tm)". :- )

Let's hear it for the sane people. Mac and PC people alike.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Let's hear it for the sane people. Mac and PC people alike.

Any idea where to find them?

 

[Stevamundo]

Seems to me you're trying to discredit anyone that posted anything to counter the anti-microsoft propaganda filled with lies with what I quoted. Here, let me refresh your memory :



Which Windows fanboys are you talking about then ? I've seen a few Apple users (myself included) correct factual errors that some less knowledgeable folk made in their haste to bash Microsoft.

I signed up here because I'm an Apple user. Are you amused by me because think I'm a MS fanboy because I know about MSIs ? Because I realise that the concept of the App Store is not some kind of Apple exclusive ?

Your post was incendiary and hinting that anyone coming in here with facts were Windows fanboys and that we signed up here to cause trouble. Your gross generalization drew the ire you got, not some kind of reading deficiency on our part.

Oh really? When I say "I also said that all comes down to matter of preference. That's it! Both PC with Windows and the Mac with OS X let you do some incredible things." How is that criticizing anyone?

The simple fact is, there are Mac/OS X fanboys and Microsoft/PC fanboys. Just like they're fans in sports for certain teams.

Oh I know! I should have called them “fanpeople” instead of “fanboys.” SORRY LADIES, I didn't mean to forget you.

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Any idea where to find them?

AMEN to that AppleScruff1!

 

[o'glory]

Windows 8 is getting me so pissed. The preview video of the new OS that they released a couple of months ago is nearly exactly like Lion besides a few new cool things. They're start screen looks a lot like a Dashboard, and their gestures are near identical.

However, it is pretty fluid and nice to look at.

Still, not original.

ALL THE WAY.

 

[vrDrew]

Apple and Microsoft are both a GUI "Xerox copy" anyway..

I don't think anyone - and least of all Steve Jobs and the people at Apple - deny the fact that the Graphical User Interface was first invented at Xerox.

But that's really missing the point. What existed at Zerox PARC wasn't a product. Xerox top executives and the researchers who created the GUI simply weren't able to put the ideas together in such a form that they could be made, sold, and used. As Jobs himself pointed out in the video clip, there were a lot of things wrong with the GUI that Xerox showed them. These were things that it was left to Apple's team to correct, just as it was left to Apple's engineers to find the right combination of components and programming to create a GUI computer that could actually be sold for a reasonable price.

It was left to Apple to show this product to the world. To have the confidence to invest millions of dollars in a machine that would be bought by actual consumers. Apple, and Steve Jobs, had the vision and courage, the determination and the skills to make all that happen. That doesn't take anything away from the Xerox PARC researchers who created the GUI. But it DOES take away from Xerox' management, and corporate reputation, that they were unable to execute.

Its the same thing today with Tablets. Nobody denies Microsoft showed off a tablet device. But it wasn't the right device. It was too expensive, to cumbersome, too limited. It was left to Apple - once again - to have the vision to recognize the convergence of technologies (ie. touchscreen LCD panels, superfast mobile phone processors, widespread Wi-Fi availability, and a robust mobile phone ecosystem) and create the iPad.

Think about the idea of convergence: Even if you'd had the processors and the touchscreens back in 1995 - an iPad released back then would have failed. For the very simple reason that you need WiFi (or 3G cellular signals) to get data in and out of it. (Can you imagine how ridiculous an iPad hooked up semi-permanently to a CAT cable would look. Or with a floppy disk drive in it?)

 

[Renzatic]

I really don't want to discuss who invented which feature because I know there is no innocent in this story. Good ideas are simply copied from Apple, Microsoft, Nokia, HP/Palm, GPL projects and so on.

Yup. This is true. Everyone has copied everyone else at some point. Apple has had some good original ideas, of course. Saying otherwise would be stupid. But if ask me, Apple's strength is more in implementation and ergonomics than anything.

Apple regularly takes someone else's good idea, puts their spin on it, complements it with some other good idea, and polishes it until it's snazzy and easy to use. In turn, some other company will take their ideas, and do the same. Repeat ad infinitum, and there you go. It's how the modern computer industry rolls. Hell, it's just about how every industry rolls.

And you know what? I welcome it. Because in the end, all these big tech companies copying, swapping, and tweaking each others basic ideas benefits all of us here.

But that's really missing the point. What existed at Zerox PARC wasn't a product. Xerox top executives and the researchers who created the GUI simply weren't able to put the ideas together in such a form that they could be made, sold, and used.

I don't think that's totally true. They were in regular use around the Xerox and Parc, and a few schools here and there back in '78 or so. It was a complete and total product, and the only reason it never saw a commercial release was because Xerox was incredibly dense, and didn't see it as having a future.

Apple just took what they did, cleaned it up, and made it affordable. Affordable, by the way, being about $2600 in '80's money. If you account for inflation, cost of living, ect, then that means it'd be about...4...5...6 million dollars in todays money if my math is correct (and it ain't).

edit: thanks to Wikipedia, it turns out that a Parc OS based machine, the Xerox Star, did indeed see commercial release in '81. It was the first GUI driven computer, and beat the Lisa and original Mac to the punch by a good 2-3 years. Shame it cost $75,000 though.

 

[KnightWRX]

Oh I know! I should have called them “fanpeople” instead of “fanboys.” SORRY LADIES, I didn't mean to forget you.

No, you should not have called them fan-anything. There was no Microsoft fanboyism in this thread, only us Apple users correcting factual errors made by posters who don't know about the Windows eco-system.

In fact, I'm a Microsoft-hater. Have been for quite a while. The difference is I know how their stuff works and thus I can point out error-filled bashing.

Again : Your gross generalization drew you ire. Next time, don't generalize.

 

[divinox]

Windows 8 is getting me so pissed. The preview video of the new OS that they released a couple of months ago is nearly exactly like Lion besides a few new cool things. They're start screen looks a lot like a Dashboard, and their gestures are near identical.

However, it is pretty fluid and nice to look at.

Still, not original.

ALL THE WAY.

Say what? Safe to say, its not like i looked into Lions DB, but from a quick googling it just looks like widgets - something MSFT has had since when? Vista?

W8's take is more than just "a space to add widgets". Its their new cross-platform UI-concept.

next up are apparently media center and office.. cant wait. Finally a fresh breeze.

 

[divinox]

I don't think anyone - and least of all Steve Jobs and the people at Apple - deny the fact that the Graphical User Interface was first invented at Xerox.

Anyone sane, perhaps. In here i'd say there are still quite a few who believe otherwise.

But that's really missing the point. What existed at Zerox PARC wasn't a product. Xerox top executives and the researchers who created the GUI simply weren't able to put the ideas together in such a form that they could be made, sold, and used.

Sure they could, its just that the exec's never were able to see what the researchers saw.

As Jobs himself pointed out in the video clip, there were a lot of things wrong with the GUI that Xerox showed them. These were things that it was left to Apple's team to correct, just as it was left to Apple's engineers to find the right combination of components and programming to create a GUI computer that could actually be sold for a reasonable price.

Many researchers would argue that there still are many things wrong. In fact, the usefulness of the whole paradigm itself is oft-questioned. Did Jobs et al. make useful contributions? Of course, no denying that.

Oh and yeah, as for "sold for a reasonable price" the Lisa hardly qualifies for that :- ) ...but yeah, Jobs got it right eventually. I do, however, have no doubt that the researchers at parc could've done at least an equally good job at that though. We're talking about researchers who to this day still are considered to be among the greatest of all time. Sure, they were oft-times a couple decades ahead of their time, but then again, they were there to explore and discover the future after all.

It was left to Apple to show this product to the world. To have the confidence to invest millions of dollars in a machine that would be bought by actual consumers. Apple, and Steve Jobs, had the vision and courage, the determination and the skills to make all that happen. That doesn't take anything away from the Xerox PARC researchers who created the GUI. But it DOES take away from Xerox' management, and corporate reputation, that they were unable to execute.

Common to see these things unfortunately. Companies easily get so vested around their core (for Xerox, printers), that they are unable to make horizontal leaps (in this case, go in to computing).

Luckily for us people like Jobs and Gates, whatever one thinks of them (i, for example, am not very big on Jobs) were more than mere geeks with a vision, they also had the drive to turn their visions into reality.

Its the same thing today with Tablets. Nobody denies Microsoft showed off a tablet device. But it wasn't the right device.

Right device for what? Second, many of us doubt that we are even there yet* (the tablet btw, also has parc-blood running in its veins).

It was too expensive, to cumbersome, too limited.

Many of us would say the ipad still ticks at least two of these boxes.

It was left to Apple - once again - to have the vision to recognize the convergence of technologies (ie. touchscreen LCD panels, superfast mobile phone processors, widespread Wi-Fi availability, and a robust mobile phone ecosystem) and create the iPad.

Think about the idea of convergence: Even if you'd had the processors and the touchscreens back in 1995 - an iPad released back then would have failed. For the very simple reason that you need WiFi (or 3G cellular signals) to get data in and out of it. (Can you imagine how ridiculous an iPad hooked up semi-permanently to a CAT cable would look. Or with a floppy disk drive in it?)

Yup. Its all about the timing. No matter how great your vision might be, sometimes you are just too much ahead of your time. Luckily for us, as time passes the visions of old get closer to reality.