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Microsoft's xCloud and Xbox Game Pass Not Coming to iOS Due to Apple's Restrictions [Updated]

techfreak23

macrumors 6502
Sep 8, 2013
328
387
I specifically asked the person you're responding to why the app review policy shouldn't apply to Microsoft in this instance and they never replied. I'll ask you: why do you believe Microsoft shouldn't have to follow the app review policy?
You’re asking the wrong questions and again, you’re missing the point here. The issue is not whether the rules should apply specifically to Microsoft. IT’S THE RULES THEMSELVES. I feel like a crazy person here responding to you now so have a great day, and continue your argument from the completely wrong angle.
 
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techfreak23

macrumors 6502
Sep 8, 2013
328
387
Is xCloud inner working available to anyone anywhere I’m not sure this is the case even if it is game developers can do a lot with controls (not just controllers) in fact any developer can...
I’m not sure your point here. That’s not how development on a console works. Unless Microsoft was planning to allow for custom touch controls for non-standard actions, I could see that being an issue, but that’s not the case. Developers can only work with the inputs designed by Microsoft, unless they design their own peripheral and go through an approval process. Even then, those are usually just custom hardware mapped to the standard inputs already offered by Microsoft’s APIs.
 
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pankajdoharey

macrumors 6502
Feb 19, 2014
374
276
Oz town, Jade City. Mars
This is not about Monopoly, Apple doesn't want large game publishers like Microsoft streaming heavily discounted/subsidised games to be competing with Indie to Medium size developers on iOS, and you can call it anti competitive but it makes sense. The playing field should be levelled for all.
 
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Anox

macrumors member
Aug 6, 2020
88
21
I’m not sure your point here. That’s not how development on a console works. Unless Microsoft was planning to allow for custom touch controls for non-standard actions, I could see that being an issue, but that’s not the case. Developers can only work with the inputs designed by Microsoft, unless they design their own peripheral and go through an approval process. Even then, those are usually just custom hardware mapped to the standard inputs already offered by Microsoft’s APIs.
I don’t know all the details but the mere fact that I keep hearing well maybe if they did that or maybe this shows that it may very well hold more then it seems
I do know that computer have become so important, people forget how complicated they are, how dangerous they can be ...
As for input for what I could find they are using and developing unique touch controls, also there’s a lot of data broadcasting potentially as they do implement some interesting systems (I believe the situation is more complicated than UP,UP,DOWN,RIGHT) but hey this does not mean that Apple absolutely must recognize this whole Spiel as a disaster
While the policies are solid in my opinion they need to allow both developers and customers to show them what needs to change
 
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Anox

macrumors member
Aug 6, 2020
88
21
This is not about Monopoly, Apple doesn't want large game publishers like Microsoft streaming heavily discounted/subsidised games to be competing with Indie to Medium size developers on iOS, and you can call it anti competitive but it makes sense. The playing field should be levelled for all.
Interesting take actually never thought about that as generally speaking most iOS games are indeed considered indie
 
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Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
22,080
27,656
This is not about Monopoly, Apple doesn't want large game publishers like Microsoft streaming heavily discounted/subsidised games to be competing with Indie to Medium size developers on iOS, and you can call it anti competitive but it makes sense. The playing field should be levelled for all.
How does Apple Arcade fit into that equation?
 
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Reksy

macrumors member
Jun 3, 2013
67
44
Welp, that Pixel 5 is looking even better.

Not trying to say that as a hot take. But these restrictions are completely out of control. Especially as someone who loves game pass. I mean I was even thinking about getting an iPad pro. But **** it, I'll just get a Samsung tablet. Idk man, I can't understand how people continue to constantly defend Apple with this.

Android tablets are pretty garbage, cause Android tablet app quality is awful, but my next phone upgrade I might have to reconsider unless Apple gets slapped around by regulators.
 
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Wildkraut

macrumors 6502a
Nov 8, 2015
915
1,110
It's been like this for over a decade (years before the App Store was announced), but no one complained until Apple joined the game.
That’s true, because people are blind, they just notice when it’s already too late.
Humans are herd animals... we love to blindly follow others or uphyped trends.. thats why the civilization is based on having leaders.
 
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jimbobb24

macrumors 65816
Jun 6, 2005
1,371
1,816
Hopefully all streaming services allowed soon. This is definitely coming and I want to play Playstation Now on my Apple TV.
 
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mrkite77

macrumors member
May 8, 2019
88
93
Interesting take actually never thought about that as generally speaking most iOS games are indeed considered indie

Not the ones that make money. Look at the top grossing iOS games and you've got King, Tencent, Supercell... these aren't indie studios.
 
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ian87w

macrumors 68000
Feb 22, 2020
1,718
1,819
Indonesia
I never understood the pre-installation argument being anti-consumer. Especially when the installed application is easily deletable. I can understand the argument when the company is not allowing you to delete the app off of your device, or worse, forces you to actually use it... but free app pre-installed and deletable is not exactly something that will make me consider the company anti-consumer. That doesn't exactly line up with the definition in my pro-consumer, yet capitalist eyes.
It’s because most consumers won’t use anything other than the default.
This is also why Google force OEMs to preinstall Google apps on certified Android handsets.
 
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marty1980

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2011
555
387
This is not about Monopoly, Apple doesn't want large game publishers like Microsoft streaming heavily discounted/subsidised games to be competing with Indie to Medium size developers on iOS, and you can call it anti competitive but it makes sense. The playing field should be levelled for all.

Game Pass has plenty of indie titles on the same level as those iOS indie’s. And Game Pass games are only inside the Game Pass app, not sitting next to those titles on the App Store. Indie titles can exist on console and Pc side by side with big budget AAA titles without a problem.
 
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Anox

macrumors member
Aug 6, 2020
88
21
How does Apple Arcade fit into that equation?
If I’m not mistaken you don’t really have what is referred to as AAA game franchise on that service
Not the ones that make money. Look at the top grossing iOS games and you've got King, Tencent, Supercell... these aren't indie studios.
Not everything is about the top sellers yes of course these are the ones up top but there are still many other smaller studios out there.
Not to mention that the fact these names are not Nintendo, PlayStation, Xbox says a lot don’t you see
Game Pass has plenty of indie titles on the same level as those iOS indie’s. And Game Pass games are only inside the Game Pass app, not sitting next to those titles on the App Store. Indie titles can exist on console and Pc side by side with big budget AAA titles without a problem.
I don’t think your getting the point though
It’s not if they can survive or exist but rather how does it shift the experience of it
Granted Ubisoft does do apps and so other big names that are there

so in the end I really believe it just a matter of Microsoft showing Apple that they can and need a new section in the guidelines for cloud based apps
But hey those are my options
 
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PickUrPoison

macrumors G3
Sep 12, 2017
8,011
10,397
Sunnyvale, CA
Nobody here here is known to work for Apple, so speculation. Anyone who really does work for Apple probably won't say.
I wasn’t asking if anyone had any inside information, I was just wondering if anyone understood the “why” of Apple’s position.

For example, one of Apple’s rules is that games in a game subscription be owned or licensed by the developer. Microsoft doesn’t meet that requirement, so how could their game sub app ever expect to be approved?
 
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BritishApple

macrumors 6502
Oct 18, 2016
269
334
This is not about Monopoly, Apple doesn't want large game publishers like Microsoft streaming heavily discounted/subsidised games to be competing with Indie to Medium size developers on iOS, and you can call it anti competitive but it makes sense. The playing field should be levelled for all.

Apple Arcade and the App Store in general aren’t the same demographic, the iOS ecosystem had a shot of supporting premium gaming and cheap mobile gamers wanting free apps (“I’ll wait for the sale” was the war cry on Touch Arcade) ruined it and took mobile gaming down the path to where it is now.

XCloud allows you to a) stream from Microsoft’s Xbox One X and soon Series X powered server blades or b) use YOUR own home Xbox as a server and stream locally.

Why can I stream my PS4 to my iPad but not my Xbox? I pay for Game Pass Ultimate, I want to take my games wherever I go, I believe in Phil Spencer’s vision of being able to play what you want, when you want, on whatever you want.

Apple are being dicks. Anyone who defends their stance on this is a fanboy; period.
 
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BritishApple

macrumors 6502
Oct 18, 2016
269
334
Being a fanboy doesn’t preclude them from being right. Just saying.

They aren’t right though, Apple are arrogant enough to put Apple Arcade on a par with XCloud.

Two entirely demographics in the gaming world. As I said in the post above, the App Store had its shot at premium gaming at the start when console ports were ten a penny (and I bought them, and many are long gone with the move to 64 bit ... remember Bioshock?) Mobile gamers want free or low cost, they don’t want to pay premium and that shows in the games. They’re niche, they’re not targeting the people who play on Xbox or PS4.

I used to defend Apple to the hilt, their every decision I would find a reason to justify.

Then I took the blinkers off. Cook is at it, the buck stops with him. But as I also said previously, they’ve just reported a record quarter with sales up in every category of device; Xbox gamers going to Samsung won’t even be an itch to Apple.
 
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Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
13,520
11,942
Singapore
They aren’t right though, Apple are arrogant enough to put Apple Arcade on a par with XCloud.

Two entirely demographics in the gaming world. As I said in the post above, the App Store had its shot at premium gaming at the start when console ports were ten a penny (and I bought them, and many are long gone with the move to 64 bit ... remember Bioshock?) Mobile gamers want free or low cost, they don’t want to pay premium and that shows in the games. They’re niche, they’re not targeting the people who play on Xbox or PS4.

I used to defend Apple to the hilt, their every decision I would find a reason to justify.

Then I took the blinkers off. Cook is at it, the buck stops with him. But as I also said previously, they’ve just reported a record quarter with sales up in every category of device; Xbox gamers going to Samsung won’t even be an itch to Apple.

I find it pretty interesting how the narrative surrounding Apple has apparently done a complete 360.

Just a few years ago, the oft-parroted refrain about Apple was how it constantly seemed one flop away from doom.

Today, the focus is on how powerful Apple has apparently become, how it is apparently making too much money and has too much power over its platform, as if that were somehow a bad thing.

I mean, look at the criticism levelled at Apple these few weeks. Apple tries to enforce App Store rules (they have never allowed game streaming apps on iOS) and gets accused of being greedy and predatory. Alternatively, Apple ignores App Store rules and gets accused of shady or predatory rule enforcement.

The competition hates the power that Apple now has by betting correctly on hardware, software and services, and they are now trying to decouple Apple from its own platform, and of course Apple is not going to give in without a fight. If I were running Apple, I wouldn’t either.
 
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Anox

macrumors member
Aug 6, 2020
88
21
They aren’t right though, Apple are arrogant enough to put Apple Arcade on a par with XCloud.

Two entirely demographics in the gaming world. As I said in the post above, the App Store had its shot at premium gaming at the start when console ports were ten a penny (and I bought them, and many are long gone with the move to 64 bit ... remember Bioshock?) Mobile gamers want free or low cost, they don’t want to pay premium and that shows in the games. They’re niche, they’re not targeting the people who play on Xbox or PS4.

I used to defend Apple to the hilt, their every decision I would find a reason to justify.

Then I took the blinkers off. Cook is at it, the buck stops with him. But as I also said previously, they’ve just reported a record quarter with sales up in every category of device; Xbox gamers going to Samsung won’t even be an itch to Apple.

Before I even start reading Apple did not compare xCloud to Apple Arcade,
they have a System and it’s working just like Microsoft has a vision and it’s working both of those things seem to clash

but Apple knows that arcade and xCloud are different things what they have said to all cloud gaming is that a centralized app is not acceptable because of the rules Valve,Sony or Microsoft is no exception to the rules
What they also said is that the rules can change

[edit]
let me tell you they do a lot of things I don’t like that they do but the fact of the matter is there’s a lot I do like one of those is the App Store and the locked down nature of their machines is another Apple is just one approach if you prioritize xCloud so much get a Samsung and there’s nothing bad about it
believe me they will notice if people switch
 
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Tagbert

macrumors regular
Jun 22, 2011
106
45
Seattle
Not sure why people are even bothering with this comparison. Movies and TV shows aren't apps. Games are apps.
Did you miss that these are streaming games? The game runs on a server and streams the UI to the iOS device. The concern about security is just a smoke screen. This is really about Apple not wanting someone offering games where they don’t get a cut of the action.

This should play well in the congressional investigation into Apple’s abuse of App Store policies. /s
 
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jdawgnoonan

macrumors 6502
Apr 22, 2007
405
304
Clive, Iowa
This is not about Monopoly, Apple doesn't want large game publishers like Microsoft streaming heavily discounted/subsidised games to be competing with Indie to Medium size developers on iOS, and you can call it anti competitive but it makes sense. The playing field should be levelled for all.
Apple is hurting themselves with this decision. This would actually make my iPad Pro a much more compelling device. This decision makes me contemplate leaving iOS altogether.
 
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DanielEAndersson

macrumors newbie
Nov 11, 2015
26
24
Just curious. If say Microsoft provided those xbox games as streaming games, but as individual games. For example, there would be a Halo app on the App Store, but when you play the game. It is actually streaming the game from Microsofts server. Any in-game micro transactions is run through apples in-game purchase system. There could even be a number of games like this. Each an individual app that streams the game instead of running it on the device. They could be put in a bundle with a subscription. So if you pay for the subscription you get all the games in the bundle. Would this model of doing streaming games be ok from apple or is it also a no-go because of App Store rules?
 
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hans1972

macrumors 6502a
Apr 5, 2010
566
382
Most of the defenders here are not only wrong but also inconsistent in their views. WeChat has store of downloadable applets called Mini-Programs, and Apple turns a blind eye to it because China. This isn’t even streamed code, it’s displayed as an app grid and downloaded and locally executed through the app. The intention is you never have to leave WeChat to do anything else.

What WeChat does is probably not against the App Store rules as long as WeChat owns or has an exclusive license to these mini programs.
 
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