Ming-Chi Kuo Predicts iPhone 8 Will Omit Touch ID Entirely, Come in Limited Color Options

[DCIFRTHS]

What's the point making hyperbolic statements like that? Do you think Apple is listening?

I have no idea if Apple trolls internet forums to get a gauge on what their fans want. I'm guessing that you don't either. In fact, I'd bet on it.

For the record, I will not purchase a new device if Touch ID is not present, so take your condescension, and move to the next post. I don't care about your opinion. If you don't like mine, skip it, and move along.
Better yet, maybe ask me if my words were serious, or hyperbolic before you make an erroneous assumption.

Oh, and to answer your original post: I posted what I did because I wanted to express my opinion. I believe this is the place to do it. If you can prove me wrong, please do so.

EDIT: Clarification that I will buy a new device if it has Touch ID. I would be perfectly happy with an iPhone 7s, or if necessary, I will purchase an iPhone 7 before they vanish.

 

[menithings]

Face detection can be superior to fingerprint scanning. Here's how...

Front facing 3D cameras (that work in the dark) securely detect your face at multiple distances and wide angles. No need to adjust the phone distance. If you can see the screen, iPhone sees your face. That coupled with smart motion detection and AI means iPhone knows it's you the moment you pick up the device.

The result is a 'magical' user experience:

- Lift your phone and it instantly unlocks.

- At retail terminals iPhone detects NFC and lights up an Apple Pay branded virtual home button. The experience is identical to TouchID, but clearer.

- Apple Pay online/App Store is even simpler. Just buy your item. The phone already knows it's you.

That's it. Easier and faster than TouchID.

Old timers would have the option of a 'traditional' screen unlock where they rest a finger on the home button. The rest would use the new instant unlock method.

So all this negativity about iPhone 8 losing TouchID may sound silly in a couple months.

If anyone can pull this off it's Apple.

 

[mib1800]

Face detection can be superior to fingerprint scanning. Here's how...

Front facing 3D cameras (that work in the dark) securely detect your face at multiple distances and wide angles. No need to adjust the phone distance. If you can see the screen, iPhone sees your face. That coupled with smart motion detection and AI means iPhone knows it's you the moment you pick up the device.

The result is a 'magical' user experience:

- Lift your phone and it instantly unlocks.

- At retail terminals iPhone detects NFC signal lights up an Apple Pay branded virtual home button. The experience is identical to TouchID, but clearer.

- Apple Pay online/App Store is even simpler. Just by your item. The phone already knows it's you.

That's it. Easier and faster than TouchID.

Old timers would have the option of a 'traditional' screen unlock where they rest a finger on the home button. The rest would use the new instant unlock method.

So all this negativity about iPhone 8 losing TouchID may sound silly in a couple months.

If anyone can pull this off it's Apple.

Face detection does not work in the dark. I have the S8+. Infra red Iris scanner does.

Face detection works extremely well on S8+. You don't have to hold phone upright. But the phone must be somewhat aligned with your face. Unfortunately there are many situations it will not work.

 

[DCIFRTHS]

Face detection can be superior to fingerprint scanning. Here's how...

Front facing 3D cameras (that work in the dark) securely detect your face at multiple distances and wide angles. No need to adjust the phone distance. If you can see the screen, iPhone sees your face. That coupled with smart motion detection and AI means iPhone knows it's you the moment you pick up the device.

The result is a 'magical' user experience:

- Lift your phone and it instantly unlocks.

- At retail terminals iPhone detects NFC and lights up an Apple Pay branded virtual home button. The experience is identical to TouchID, but clearer.

- Apple Pay online/App Store is even simpler. Just buy your item. The phone already knows it's you.

That's it. Easier and faster than TouchID.

Old timers would have the option of a 'traditional' screen unlock where they rest a finger on the home button. The rest would use the new instant unlock method.

So all this negativity about iPhone 8 losing TouchID may sound silly in a couple months.

If anyone can pull this off it's Apple.

I hope you are correct in your predictions.

 

[recoil80]

Face detection can be superior to fingerprint scanning. Here's how...

Front facing 3D cameras (that work in the dark) securely detect your face at multiple distances and wide angles. No need to adjust the phone distance. If you can see the screen, iPhone sees your face. That coupled with smart motion detection and AI means iPhone knows it's you the moment you pick up the device.

The result is a 'magical' user experience:

- Lift your phone and it instantly unlocks.

- At retail terminals iPhone detects NFC and lights up an Apple Pay branded virtual home button. The experience is identical to TouchID, but clearer.

- Apple Pay online/App Store is even simpler. Just buy your item. The phone already knows it's you.

That's it. Easier and faster than TouchID.

Old timers would have the option of a 'traditional' screen unlock where they rest a finger on the home button. The rest would use the new instant unlock method.

So all this negativity about iPhone 8 losing TouchID may sound silly in a couple months.

If anyone can pull this off it's Apple.

I'm skeptical about Apple pay. NFC works only when you are very close to the terminal, so the iPhone cannot detect it unless you're putting it on the reader. But you're not looking directly to your iPhone that way, not always (it depends where the terminal is).

It may work like Apple Watch does, you know you're going to pay so you open Apple pay and authorise the payment, then put your iPhone close to the terminal.

 

[rctlr]

I'm usually a generation behind, Im using an SE, so I've never used 3D Touch. As for Apple Pay, I use that a lot. If TouchID is lost because of the screen, I'd be concerned.

 

[kdarling]

Do you know how hard Apple has been working to secure deals with all these banks and credit unions based on the fingerprint implementation? They wouldn't sacrifice the deals given how far they've progressed / how much of a gamble they took on TouchID.

The banks aren't signing up because of TouchId per se.

They're signing up in the hope that its convenience will make us spend more. So another authentication system would work, too.

Face detection does not work in the dark. I have the S8+. Infra red Iris scanner does.

That's only because it was a throwaway addon feature on the S8, unlike the iris system.

Many other facial recog systems do work in the dark, and if Apple depends on one, it will for sure.

 

[sudo1996]

You know what's really surprising? The leak photos are actually good quality for once!

 

[DakotaGuy]

By omitting the fingerprint sensor just like they did the headphone jack it will cut down on build cost of the phone which will help maximize Apple's profit. When you consider some sources are saying this could be Apple's most expensive phone ever coming in at around $1000 if they can price it like that while making it cheaper to build it would do wonders for corporate profit.

Samsung decided to throw everything into the S8. Although it's nice to have all the features it also makes the thing darn expensive to build. Never underestimate how much the bean counters matter. If they can use an already included feature like the front camera to do the same it's saves on cost. They know people will buy it anyway so maximizing profit in this case is a smart move from a business perspective.

 

[daveak]

Indeed, I have never used Apple Pay unfortunatly, cuz my country isn’t compatible yet. This particular case could be solved somehow I think (f.e., verifying your identity by scanning your iris before connecting with the terminal.

Anyways, this is not the point I’m trying to make. What I’m talking about is that having 2 safetysystems with the same grade of securety is unnecessary.
For instance, why would they introduce an irisscanner if the Touch ID-sensor would stay?

Verifying with the iris scanner prior to connecting to the terminal opens you up to theft as anyone passing by can then easily then take money from you.

An eye scanner could be useful in circumstances where your hands are full / dirty, cooking for example and unlocking with a glance to show a cook book app.

 

[JPack]

By omitting the fingerprint sensor just like they did the headphone jack it will cut down on build cost of the phone which will help maximize Apple's profit. When you consider some sources are saying this could be Apple's most expensive phone ever coming in at around $1000 if they can price it like that while making it cheaper to build it would do wonders for corporate profit.

Fingerprint sensor is mature technology and doesn't cost that much.

The entire sensor package on the iPhone 7 including fingerprint, compass, proximity, NFC, audio costs $14. Similarly, the Galaxy S8 sensor package with GPS costs $13 according to IHS.

On the other hand, 3D sensing infrared cameras are new and LG Innotek built a new plant to supply Apple.

 

[menithings]

I'm skeptical about Apple pay. NFC works only when you are very close to the terminal, so the iPhone cannot detect it unless you're putting it on the reader. But you're not looking directly to your iPhone that way, not always (it depends where the terminal is).

It may work like Apple Watch does, you know you're going to pay so you open Apple pay and authorise the payment, then put your iPhone close to the terminal.

Again, if you can see the iPhone screen, it can see your face. So face authentication works exactly the same as TouchID when using Apple Pay:

- Hold your phone near the NFC reader.
- Rest your finger on the virtual home button.

The facial recognition system would have authticated your identity well before you even started the paying process.

Easier, faster, and more secure than TouchID.

 

[sulpfiction]

Unforynatly for me and likes of me wet is a problem all the time.
I have the misforune of having sweaty hands... and more often than not the present tecnology of touch id does not work for me.

Wow, really? Never thought of that. Your hands are wet all the time?? That would be horrible.
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Again, if you can see the iPhone screen, it can see your face. So face authentication works exactly the same as TouchID when using Apple Pay:

- Hold your phone near the NFC reader.
- Rest your finger on the virtual home button.

The facial recognition system would have authticated your identity well before you even started the paying process.

Easier, faster, and more secure than TouchID.

Exactly. While I would think removing Touch ID completely would be a bad idea, I also think Apple is smarter then this. Whatever they have coming is going to revolutionize biometric authentication in the same way touch ID did. Before touch ID fingerprint scanners were marginal at best. Touch ID (especially 2nd gen) blew everything out of the water. Facial recognition as we know it, for the most part, BLOWS. Im very excited to see what they have up their sleeves. If anyone thinks Apple is gonna step backward because they had a problem embedding touch id under the display you are going to pleasantly surprised. Whatever it is it's gonna be better, faster, and just as easy as touch ID was. This is a no joke release for Apple. And they won't disappoint. (i pray) lol

 

[kdarling]

Verifying with the iris scanner prior to connecting to the terminal opens you up to theft as anyone passing by can then easily then take money from you.

Please explain how.

(Not that anyone would be liable for it, anyway.)

 

[wigby]

Maybe it means no Touch ID anywhere on the "SCREEN" but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be on the back or power button.

The quote didn't mention the word "screen". It clearly stated "OLED model" which includes the entire phone. We only have the quote to go on so if you're going to play with words to create the narrative you want, have at it.

 

[daveak]

Please explain how.

(Not that anyone would be liable for it, anyway.)

Because Apple Pay is just contactless payment. If someone walked by with a payment terminal, which may be the size of a usb stick for instance, and you have authorised payment with an iris scan just prior to tapping the actual payment terminal, then that person would also be authorised. This is a problem that exists with contactless credit/debit cards already, someone brushing past you can potential take money (e.g. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...tch-out-for-digital-pickpockets-a6879796.html). As for liability, the card issuers would most likely disagree on that front. It is for this reason normal contactless has a cap on how much can be spent. A cap which Apple Pay removes as it requires confirmation of the payment via TouchId.

 

[kyykesko]

Edit: In re-reading what KGI has posted, it does appear that they are stating that there will be no fingerprint sensor whatsoever on the phone. I still find that highly unlikely. Apple can't take a step backward simply for the sake of shrinking bezels.

You forget how far Apple is ready to go to make their phones just a little bit thinner. They sacrifice the battery life, the buttons that actually feel like buttons, the 3,5mm headphone port and whatever else. I wouldn't be surprised if they ditched Touch ID, too, if it meant they could shave one tenth of a millmeter of the thickness of the device. :/ That obviously doesn't include the camera bump. So maybe they'll add another wart on the back for the touch id! Yay!

 

[QquegChristian]

Face detection does not work in the dark. I have the S8+. Infra red Iris scanner does.

Face detection works extremely well on S8+. You don't have to hold phone upright. But the phone must be somewhat aligned with your face. Unfortunately there are many situations it will not work.

If anything it works BETTER in the dark, with less light pollution. My Surface Pro 4 can see me in pitch black. Don't know Samsung's implementation, but on Microsoft devices you need no light and "it just works".

To say it didn't work would be like saying TV remotes don't work in the dark. The camera sends out infrared light (like a TV remote) that blankets the room, illuminating everything for the camera, which is tuned to see this spectrum. I'm pretty sure the camera can even detect how long the IR light takes to bounce back to the camera, effectively giving the camera a 3D map of everything in front of it. I think it's a no-brainer that this will be on the next iPhone for AR purposes alone. 3D mapping of the room is kind of the most important thing for good AR.

 

[alpha076]

Apple should not take the decision based on maturity of technology available now for scanning fingerprints thru oled panels but how it sees future of authenticating. Once the feature is removed, it can not put it back next year when technology improves.

 

[Menel]

Wow, really? Never thought of that. Your hands are wet all the time?? That would be horrible.
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Exactly. While I would think removing Touch ID completely would be a bad idea, I also think Apple is smarter then this. Whatever they have coming is going to revolutionize biometric authentication in the same way touch ID did. Before touch ID fingerprint scanners were marginal at best. Touch ID (especially 2nd gen) blew everything out of the water. Facial recognition as we know it, for the most part, BLOWS. Im very excited to see what they have up their sleeves. If anyone thinks Apple is gonna step backward because they had a problem embedding touch id under the display you are going to pleasantly surprised. Whatever it is it's gonna be better, faster, and just as easy as touch ID was. This is a no joke release for Apple. And they won't disappoint. (i pray) lol

Hyperhidrosis.
https://www.aad.org/public/diseases/dry-sweaty-skin/hyperhidrosis

It is pretty horrible for them, especially children in school/bullies etc., embarrassing and frustrating.

 

[zkadda]

TouchID has only been around for 4 years - ain't nobody gonna believe they're gonna scrap it ALREADY, especially since the latest TB MacBooks and the current iPads have it. If you think this is legit, you are certifiable. This ain't some fly-by-night "feature" that is launched and then dropped as fast as it arrived, like the crap from Android vendors, this is APPLE - they think long, slowly and VERY cautiously about technologies they integrate into their products - this is key to the Apple ecosystem at the present time, and to DROP it for no logical reason? You are INSANE if you give even passing, superficial credence to this nonsense - to even consider it MAY be happening, you are clearly out of touch with how Apple operates.

Another day, another pointless, baseless rumour (that's what rumours ARE, after all.)
[doublepost=1499213490][/doublepost]

The banks aren't signing up because of TouchId per se.

They're signing up in the hope that its convenience will make us spend more. So another authentication system would work, too.



That's only because it was a throwaway addon feature on the S8, unlike the iris system.

Many other facial recog systems do work in the dark, and if Apple depends on one, it will for sure.

Know what else works in the dark? TouchID.

 

[mib1800]

If anything it works BETTER in the dark, with less light pollution. My Surface Pro 4 can see me in pitch black. Don't know Samsung's implementation, but on Microsoft devices you need no light and "it just works".

To say it didn't work would be like saying TV remotes don't work in the dark. The camera sends out infrared light (like a TV remote) that blankets the room, illuminating everything for the camera, which is tuned to see this spectrum. I'm pretty sure the camera can even detect how long the IR light takes to bounce back to the camera, effectively giving the camera a 3D map of everything in front of it. I think it's a no-brainer that this will be on the next iPhone for AR purposes alone. 3D mapping of the room is kind of the most important thing for good AR.

Then you need a higher power IR emitter where the beam spreads wider in order to capture enough of the face even from a distance in the dark. Not sure whether this is good for the eyes for prolonged use. Compared to the iris scanner which probably emits lower energy beam since you need to position your eyes at the right spot. Even this some have reported the S8 iris scanner caused irritation to the eyes.

 

[aidler]

If this discussion is any indication at all Apple would be in big trouble if they drop Touch ID.

 

[Howl's Castle]

I have a hard time believing this may be true.

 

[MrX8503]

I almost would rather have the bezels if it meant Touch ID on the front.