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MLB 2009 Season

Wow. Giants score three runs in the top of the 14th in Colorado, only to give up five runs in the bottom frame, thus dropping three out of four in the series and falling further behind in the wild card race.

This was the worst regular season loss I've seen by the Giants in a long, long time. This almost ranks up their with painful playoff losses. Poor managing, poor situational hitting, walks galore given up by the pitchers, yet another quality start (by Zito, yet again) squandered by the anemic bats and gutless bullpen.

Forget this season. The Giants have a pretty good core but absolutely need to clean house on the management side. Fire Bruce Bochy, Brian Sabean, Carney Lansford. Burn it all down. Tabula rasa. Let all the free agents go and fully commit to building with home-grown talent. It's the only way forward.
 
zioxide said:
He could be decent second lefty option out of the pen after Okajima. But this isn't going to happen. The Mets are going to want a decent prospect (I think I heard top 20) in order to trade Wagner. But the Red Sox won't give up that good of a prospect for a six week rental if they're not going to be able to at least offer him arbitration to get the draft pick compensation.
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Could be doesn't cut it at this point in the season..The last thing the Sox need is another NL pitcher coming off arm surgery. Especially if they're going to give up a solid prospect for a rent a setup guy.. And the Sox should send Contreras a gift basket for not ending that inning last night..


@ Silencio Does ownership have the guts to do all that? Good chance to test how committed they are to winning a championship.
 
furcalchick said:
johan santana may not pitch until 2011. the mets have nobody left, i think citi field is cursed, and i'm starting to feel sorry for them.

but this again proves that you can't buy a winning team, as the second highest payroll is in 4th and double digits under .500.
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Being a Phillies fan there no love lost down here:D After that unassisted triple play I think your right about the curse:D
 
Silencio said:
Wow. Giants score three runs in the top of the 14th in Colorado, only to give up five runs in the bottom frame, thus dropping three out of four in the series and falling further behind in the wild card race.

This was the worst regular season loss I've seen by the Giants in a long, long time. This almost ranks up their with painful playoff losses. Poor managing, poor situational hitting, walks galore given up by the pitchers, yet another quality start (by Zito, yet again) squandered by the anemic bats and gutless bullpen.
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Holy crap, I just about had a heart attack when Spilborghs hit that grand slam! I was sure the Rockies were dead when the Giants scored 3 runs in the top of the 14th.

As happy as I am about the win, it shouldn't have gotten to that point. The Rockies had several chances to win in regulation, but couldn't take advantage of the numerous walks & they left too many men on base in scoring position.
 
Silencio said:
Forget this season. The Giants have a pretty good core but absolutely need to clean house on the management side. Fire Bruce Bochy, Brian Sabean, Carney Lansford. Burn it all down. Tabula rasa. Let all the free agents go and fully commit to building with home-grown talent. It's the only way forward.
Click to expand...

I never understood why Bochy was so in demand. A lot of baseball people seem to like him, but he's not among that handful of managers that can make a team overachieve. I have nothing against the guy, but I've never understood why some guys get hired over and over without winning anything. Maybe they're good interviewers.

As for Sabean, I always thought he got too much credit for a handful of great trades, while people ignored all the moves that didn't work. I suppose that's true of any GM. My impression was that a few years ago they went all in on young pitching and old position players and haven't used excess pitching prospects to trade for bats.

The 2003 Dodgers are a warning to all teams that you can't win with pitching alone. That team led baseball in ERA by a country mile and had possibly the greatest bullpen of all time, but it wasn't nearly enough.
 
aloofman said:
The 2003 Dodgers are a warning to all teams that you can't win with pitching alone. That team led baseball in ERA by a country mile and had possibly the greatest bullpen of all time, but it wasn't nearly enough.
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add the braves that won all those divisions that usually had great pitching, but came out of it with one world series.
 
aloofman said:
I never understood why Bochy was so in demand. A lot of baseball people seem to like him, but he's not among that handful of managers that can make a team overachieve. I have nothing against the guy, but I've never understood why some guys get hired over and over without winning anything. Maybe they're good interviewers.
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I had a pretty positive impression of Bochy coming in to the job; I always thought of the Padres as overachievers under his tenure, but I probably didn't follow them closely enough. The Giants have had remarkable stability in the manager's office since the mid-80s (Bochy is only the fourth Giants manager over that timeframe), but the last truly great manager they had was Roger Craig.

As for Sabean, I always thought he got too much credit for a handful of great trades, while people ignored all the moves that didn't work. I suppose that's true of any GM. My impression was that a few years ago they went all in on young pitching and old position players and haven't used excess pitching prospects to trade for bats.
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You must not talk to enough Giants fans. There are loads of people who constantly bring up the great Joe Nathan giveaway to Minnesota and the various recent, overly-generous contracts given to veteran players like Edgar Renteria.

He has made his mistakes, but there are far worse GMs out there, and he did oversee the rapid and dramatic rebuilding of the farm system over the past few years. But I think the last straw for him were the in-season trades this year: he really overpaid for Ryan Garko and Freddie Sanchez, and Sanchez has not been healthy enough to be in the lineup often enough -- so for giving up one of our top pitching prospects, we get next to no return down the stretch this season. Now that there's a new managing partner running the team, there is a greater likelihood of a change being made.

The 2003 Dodgers are a warning to all teams that you can't win with pitching alone. That team led baseball in ERA by a country mile and had possibly the greatest bullpen of all time, but it wasn't nearly enough.
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I blame Sabean for letting the hitting and pitching fall so far out of balance. True, it's not easy to lure free agent power hitters to San Francisco, but all the best Giants' hitting prospects over the past 5 years have turned out to be AAAA players, at best, at least until Sandoval came along.

I have to talk myself off the edge of the balcony and remind myself that nobody expected the Giants to contend this season. But I stick to my convictions that the current staff and management are not up to the task of getting the team to the next level.
 
Wasn't Barry Bonds the biggest setback the Giants had. He was dead weight the last few years and hurt the Giants chances of getting younger.
 
The Red Sox have just sealed their fate and conceited the season by signing Billy blown saves.
 
MacNut said:
Thought you'd like that.:p

He will get lit up by the AL east thats for sure.:D
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I appreciate that.

If he's dominate, great for the Sox for picking him up. If he's not, he's just gonna further sink that ship. The AL East is really not a good place to be trusting 2 NL pitchers that are coming off some form of surgery.
 
Sabean is over-rated. Any cred he built up by pulling off the Jeff Kent trade was lost when he handed over Liriano, Nathan and Bonser for A.J. Pierzynski. Talk about a one-sided trade. Add to that the Renteria signing and you've got an over-rated GM. Oh and Zito...

Like him or not, Bonds kept the Giants in the hunt. Having Kent around made them both better too and they ALMOST won it all. I was pulling for them the year they lost to the Angels.

The Red Sox really didn't need Wagner and while I believe you can never have too much bullpen depth, I bet they claimed him simply to keep him off the Yankee's roster.
 
Not thrilled about this move at all..Talk about a "no vote of no confidence" in your current bullpen..If this blows up,ala Penny and Smoltz),Theo better get some heat. He can't keep leveraging 04 and 07 and get passes on bad signings..
 
As much as I feel the Yankees could use another arm in the pen, I don't/didn't see them going after Billy Blown Saves. He's 39 (if i'm not mistaken) coming off surgery.
 
Wagner is one of those players that doesn't know when to stop. His career is just about done.
 
This could really get good/ugly here,depending on your perspective:
Jon Heyman's (SI) Twitter:
billy wagner said he "loves boston.'' also said he doesn't expect to go. why? "inside intuition.'' hmmm. 2:12 PM Aug 23rd
reacting to papelbon's not warm quote about him, wagner said, "i dont have anything to say about somebody like that.''2:14 PM Aug 23rd
more wagner on papelbon: "when he walks in my shoes then i'll say something. let him be 38 and have tommy john surgery ..."2:16 PM Aug 23rd

This clubhouse is going to be fun to watch the rest of the season,lol..Wait til he gets lit up at Fenway..Going to be some good quotes then :p
 
^Billy said it himself... 38 and tommy john surgery. What an egotistical schmuck he is. Just hang them up Billy.

Enjoy getting demolished by the American League.
 
Don't blame Sabean for the Zito signing. That was all on Peter MacGowan. Zito's been pitching very well lately, but man - that contract is a millstone.

Actually, I blame MacGowan for the Giants' current troubles. He chose to stick with Bonds for too long, he gave Sabean the marching orders to build "win now" teams around Bonds, he chose to splash out on that ridiculous contract for Zito to be the new face of the franchise. I will forever appreciate him for leading the group that saved the Giants from St. Petersburg, for making the inexplicably bold of signing Bonds in 1993, and for getting the new ballpark built, but post-2002 he has made all the wrong moves.

@fotografica: both Sabean and Bochy are on the last years of their contracts, and the Giants have a new managing partner, Bill Neukom, running the show. So far I think his moves have appeared to be more astute than those made by MacGowan over the past several years, so I am thinking he'll do the right thing this offseason.

I have no idea who ideal the manager / GM replacements would be. Whether or not Sabean and Bochy are let go, there will be some significant changes this offseason: on the one hand, some fat contracts (Winn, Johnson, Molina) will expire this year. On the other hand, the free agent market doesn't look all that great. I'd bank the money saved and keep building with youth, unless a good trade can be made that involves taking on payroll for a real impact bat.
 
MacNut said:
The Red Sox have just sealed their fate and conceited the season by signing Billy blown saves.
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Better the Red Sox's then the Phils:) We're looking for a closer:D

Nut, what do you think? Yanks vs Phils;)
 
I think the Yankees will be better off in the end. NL East is still tight. Philly might have to fight off the fish first.
 
Joba keeps on proving why he is a better setup/future closer then a starter.......
 
quagmire said:
Joba keeps on proving why he is a better setup/future closer then a starter.......
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Disagree, that's what happens when upper management f**ks with your schedule. He had 3 consecutive dominate starts and then put the Joba rules crap on him. Let the kid pitch FFS.
 
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