MLB 2009 Season

[63dot]

Phillies pitching is not good the next few games so give the Yankees the edge, besides Lee who do they really have, Pedro was ok but Burnett was better. C.C. wasn't bad game 1 Lee was better. Roles could be reversed next time around. Hamels has been bad this post season, give the edge to Pettitte game 3.

This sounds about right. I hope you are wrong, though.

I am glad that CC didn't post a win, but he is one scary pitcher. It seems really hard to read him. I don't see this obvious wind up, and it looks like its a ball being pitched from Jabba the Hut using the force to fly, drop, and curve. I have seen nothing like CC in a pitcher I can't read outside of Nomo in his LA days. CC is so big it looks like he is pitching a golf ball. Way back when, Valenzuela from LA had a good way to hide his pitches.

The inability to read a pitcher is a great attribute, and I don't think it's likely people will hit off of him next time. Philly dodged a bullet with those home runs and some say it's because CC is not used to having a batter stand so close to the plate and it forced him to pitch to the fat part of the diamond.

 

[sysiphus]

1 and 2 are definite strikes and the 3rd is border.
You know that even if a pitch touches the corner it is a strike right? It doesn't have to be inside the zone.

Nice try. Look at the Pitch/FX chart above...see those red triangles up and away (to the left)? Two of those are the pitches in question. Even with a normalized (widened) strike zone, they're not even close. The MLB Gameday images use the thick-edged boxes on their diagrams to make "close" outside calls look better. If the pitch wasn't touching the box, it wasn't even close. The two pitches from Rivera clearly didn't. The only reason I threw in the Gameday images was to isolate the Rivera pitches to make the point--Pitch/FX is more accurate (actually tracks the pitches via a triangulated camera system) than the Gameday images, which are educated guesswork by comparison.

There's a reason the Umpires resisted Pitch FX being implemented--it shows their inaccuracy, and more importantly, when they favor pitchers.

 

[Fezwick]

Never happen, Why even bother with umps at that point.

Exactly. Seems like every post season the umps get more and more useless. There should be some sort of rule for when instant replay is used at least. Almost every other sport has it. Why not baseball?

 

[MacNut]

Exactly. Seems like every post season the umps get more and more useless. There should be some sort of rule for when instant replay is used at least. Almost every other sport has it. Why not baseball?

So what are we going to argue every ball and strike call because somebody doesn't like it, the game would take 10 hours to play.

 

[gfish31]

this sysiphus guy makes a great point. the outside pitch was getting called a LOT for the yanks. especially rivera. there were a bunch of ******** strikes when he pitched, many of em not even close.

 

[Fezwick]

So what are we going to argue every ball and strike call because somebody doesn't like it, the game would take 10 hours to play.

No, you set up a laser strike zone. That way no one can bitch about called strikes. If Fox, TBS and every other TV station can do it, I'm sure MLB can.

I remember watching the division on TBS and every game had the pitch tracker on the right hand side of the screen. Towards the end of the Angels Yankees series it vanished. I wonder if the umps complained because it showed how horrendous they were at calling balls and strikes.

 

[MacNut]

this sysiphus guy makes a great point. the outside pitch was getting called a LOT for the yanks. especially rivera. there were a bunch of ******** strikes when he pitched, many of em not even close.

There were also a lot of strike calls the Yankees pitching didn't get on Wednesday so what's your point.

You lost deal with it. At least Red Sox fans bitch about real problems not trivial crap.

 

[robo]

So what are we going to argue every ball and strike call because somebody doesn't like it, the game would take 10 hours to play.

Nut
Well put. We could always institute instant replay for balls and strikes. The freak'n games are long enough

Peace

 

[MacNut]

No, you set up a laser strike zone. That way no one can bitch about called strikes. If Fox, TBS and every other TV station can do it, I'm sure MLB can.

I remember watching the division on TBS and every game had the pitch tracker on the right hand side of the screen. Towards the end of the Angels Yankees series it vanished. I wonder if the umps complained because it showed how horrendous they were at calling balls and strikes.

If every strike call was by the book the game would get very boring, Baseball is a human sport and it has a pace. The umps make mistakes so do the players. We could nitpick every call and every play but then the game would get dull and drawn out and I would lose interest. We need some form of replay but we can't go over board. Umps don't call the high strike anymore, hitters already want the zone smaller. Do some umps call the zone differently. Yes, but that is part of the human element.

Why even have umps anymore, lets let the computer control the whole game.

 

[sysiphus]

There were also a lot of strike calls the Yankees pitching didn't get on Wednesday so what's your point.

You lost deal with it. At least Red Sox fans bitch about real problems not trivial crap.

What a well argued response. Have any evidence that the Yanks got particularly bad calls? I'm sure that you can find data to support your point...if you've got one. As for it being "trivial crap"--when a pitcher routinely gets calls such that he doesn't have to throw balls over the plate, and can just stay away...not exactly trivial.

 

[MacNut]

What a well argued response. Have any evidence that the Yanks got particularly bad calls? I'm sure that you can find data to support your point...if you've got one. As for it being "trivial crap"--when a pitcher routinely gets calls such that he doesn't have to throw balls over the plate, and can just stay away...not exactly trivial.

I was watching the same game you were, with the same computer. Hughes got Squeezed.

 

[sysiphus]

I was watching the same game you were, with the same computer. Hughes got Squeezed.

No, he didn't:
You can argue there was one borderline call, but even that is outweighed by the gift strike that he got. Face it, he just sucked. It's kind of hard to refute the results of advanced telemetry with an opinion Any other arguments?

 

[gfish31]

There were also a lot of strike calls the Yankees pitching didn't get on Wednesday so what's your point.

You lost deal with it. At least Red Sox fans bitch about real problems not trivial crap.

wednesday the strike zone was tight, but tight for both teams. the yanks got all the outside strike calls last night. it was such crap that we lost, if it wasnt for the umps we woulda won 10-3!!!!!!!!! how's that for dealing with it?

 

[Fezwick]

If every strike call was by the book the game would get very boring, Baseball is a human sport and it has a pace. The umps make mistakes so do the players. We could nitpick every call and every play but then the game would get dull and drawn out and I would lose interest. We need some form of replay but we can't go over board. Umps don't call the high strike anymore, hitters already want the zone smaller. Do some umps call the zone differently. Yes, but that is part of the human element.

Why even have umps anymore, lets let the computer control the whole game.

How would that make the game boring? By the rules, the strike zone is from the letters down to the knees with home plate being the inside/outside boundary. That is where a strike should be.

What makes the game frustrating is when you have umps calling the zone differently, like you said. The strike zone is clearly defined in the rules. There should be no way to call it differently.

I agree, yes we shouldn't nitpick every play, but something as simple as the strike zone should be constant. Yes, we need some sort of replay. Perhaps do the same thing football does where you can challenge a call a couple times every game. That way it doesn't slow down the game too much.

Setting up a electronic strike zone would just cut a lot of the stupid crap from baseball. No more arguing balls and strikes, no more favoring certain pitches over others, and most importantly, getting the calls right.

 

[MacNut]

wednesday the strike zone was tight, but tight for both teams. the yanks got all the outside strike calls last night. it was such crap that we lost, if it wasnt for the umps we woulda won 10-3!!!!!!!!! how's that for dealing with it?

10-3? seriously. Just deal with it you lost. Don't blame the umps or the Yankees, blame your team for not hitting. I bet you would not be complaining if you got strikes called as balls would you?

How would that make the game boring? By the rules, the strike zone is from the letters down to the knees with home plate being the inside/outside boundary. That is where a strike should be.

How many strikes do you see called at the letters? And when they are how many hitters throw a fit.

It is well known that the umps get leeway an inch or 2 left or right of the plate.

You will never ever see replay or challenge calls of the strike zone. It just won't happen so deal with it.

The one rule baseball needs to address is the check swing, what is intent and what counts as a swing. In theory once the bat leaves the shoulder there is intent to swing.

 

[aloofman]

How many strikes do you see called at the letters? And when they are how many hitters throw a fit.

I would just be happy to see the high strike called consistently. MLB claims that it's called more now, but I'm unconvinced. In most games I've watched in the last several years, pitches between the letters and the waist aren't always called as strikes.

The one rule baseball needs to address is the check swing, what is intent and what counts as a swing. In theory once the bat leaves the shoulder there is intent to swing.

Yeah, unfortunately the rule book doesn't specify how far around the swing has to go to be considered a swinging strike. A lot of fans seem to think if the bat goes more than halfway it's a strike, but there's nothing in the rules that says that.

I personally think that baseball's biggest problem is how long the games take to play. I like Bill James' suggestions on how to speed up the game: (1) only two unsuccessful pickup throws to a base per inning, after that it's a called ball on the batter; (2) batters can't step out of the batter's box unless they've sustained an injury of some kind; and (3) one visit to the mound by a manager or coach per inning. All of these would prevent players and coaches from delaying the game and move things along more quickly.

How would that make the game boring? By the rules, the strike zone is from the letters down to the knees with home plate being the inside/outside boundary. That is where a strike should be.

Actually the rules say the strike zone is from "a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap." That makes the upper limit of the strike zone around the letters on most players, but it varies depending on the batter's torso size and stance. Since the letters on the front of the uniform are several inches high, calling that the upper limit is still pretty vague.

 

[Fezwick]

10-3? seriously. Just deal with it you lost. Don't blame the umps or the Yankees, blame your team for not hitting. I bet you would not be complaining if you got strikes called as balls would you?
How many strikes do you see called at the letters? And when they are how many hitters throw a fit.

It is well known that the umps get leeway an inch or 2 left or right of the plate.

You will never ever see replay or challenge calls of the strike zone. It just won't happen so deal with it.

The one rule baseball needs to address is the check swing, what is intent and what counts as a swing. In theory once the bat leaves the shoulder there is intent to swing.

Hey don't complain to me. If the ump calls a high strike and it is even towards the bottom of the letters on a player, it's still a strike. This is just according to the rules of baseball. I agree that the strike zone rule should probably be clarified (as aloofman pointed out).

I think you misunderstood me about challenging calls of the strike zone. My idea is to completely cut the home plate ump out of calling balls and strikes and have it done electronically. He can still call check swings (which also needs to be addressed, I agree with you there), people out/safe at the plate and whatever else. This would be done to keep the strike zone constant as I stated in my last post. There would be no need to challenge balls and strikes as it would be the same for every player.

Will this ever happen? I doubt it. But as a baseball fan I hope it does someday. We have the technology so why not use it? I can't imagine being the home plate ump is easy. Especially nowadays when guys are throwing 100 MPH.

 

[Decrepit]

Looking forward to the games this weekend.

Go Phils.

 

[macfan881]

ok enough with the calls probally nothing is going to change anywhoo lol its kinda surprising after the yankees winning everyone is saying the Edge goes back to phils they did not show up yesterday at all and the fact to and the yankees played alot better, and they have probally the best Pitcher in the playoffs going against a guy who has been pretty much strugling so far despite his last start. I think this game may be decided by how long holmes can last.

 

[str1f3]

I would just be happy to see the high strike called consistently. MLB claims that it's called more now, but I'm unconvinced. In most games I've watched in the last several years, pitches between the letters and the waist aren't always called as strikes.




Yeah, unfortunately the rule book doesn't specify how far around the swing has to go to be considered a swinging strike. A lot of fans seem to think if the bat goes more than halfway it's a strike, but there's nothing in the rules that says that.

I personally think that baseball's biggest problem is how long the games take to play. I like Bill James' suggestions on how to speed up the game: (1) only two unsuccessful pickup throws to a base per inning, after that it's a called ball on the batter; (2) batters can't step out of the batter's box unless they've sustained an injury of some kind; and (3) one visit to the mound by a manager or coach per inning. All of these would prevent players and coaches from delaying the game and move things along more quickly.



Actually the rules say the strike zone is from "a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap." That makes the upper limit of the strike zone around the letters on most players, but it varies depending on the batter's torso size and stance. Since the letters on the front of the uniform are several inches high, calling that the upper limit is still pretty vague.

LOL, the high strike has pretty much left the game since at least the early 90s while the strike zone has gotten wider. It is the reason why more there has been more dominant pitchers without a fastball in the past twenty years. It also helped fuel these ridiculous numbers that we see even today and helped pitchers like Greg Maddux (who pitches east to west) become dominant. It's also forced fastball pitchers to throw low and right into a hitters wheelhouse.

The solution is not those silly Billy James rules but umps learning how to properly call a strike. The high strike should be the easiest to call because you don't have to look over the catchers' shoulder. It is just a fact that umpires have become lazy in this sport. Now even the best gets at least one play a game wrong.

As for fans complaining about Rivera, both teams were getting that "outside corner." Pedro was getting that pitch most of the game. That's just the way it is. Great pitchers tend to get that leeway and, as I've said, the strike zone has become shorter and wider. This is not including that every ump has his own strike zone. The only thing players ask for is that the umps' zone is consistent.

 

[sysiphus]

As for fans complaining about Rivera, both teams were getting that "outside corner." Pedro was getting that pitch most of the game. That's just the way it is. Great pitchers tend to get that leeway and, as I've said, the strike zone has become shorter and wider. This is not including that every ump has his own strike zone. The only thing players ask for is that the umps' zone is consistent.

First off, do you want great pitchers to get leeway, or do you want a consistent strike zone? Not really clear which one you're arguing for. Also, yes, Rivera does get special treatment, and has for years. The ump was calling a wide zone all night, but he went above and beyond for Rivera. Yes, Mo is a good pitcher...but he wouldn't look nearly as good as if he got the same calls as a no-name rookie did. The chart shows you all you need to know about the last game. Again, as with the previous argument, the chart says it all.

 

[str1f3]

First off, do you want great pitchers to get leeway, or do you want a consistent strike zone? Not really clear which one you're arguing for.

You should learn to read more carefully. I never expressed a preference for either one. I'm explaining to you what is reality.

Also, yes, Rivera does get special treatment, and has for years. The ump was calling a wide zone all night, but he went above and beyond for Rivera. Yes, Mo is a good pitcher...but he wouldn't look nearly as good as if he got the same calls as a no-name rookie did. The chart shows you all you need to know about the last game. Again, as with the previous argument, the chart says it all.

I don't know what world you're living in, or how long you've been watching sports, but in any sport all great players get the call. Michael Jordan will get the foul going to the paint and Peyton Manning will get the roughing the QB if you look at him wrong. You admit the ump was calling wide the whole night but somehow it's ridiculous for Rivera to get that call.

As for Rivera, he's not just a good pitcher...he's one of the all-time great pitchers. If you believe he would be just a slightly above average pitcher if he hot the same calls, you're a fool. No one in the sport or this forum agrees with you except that retard glfish. You get those strike zones through years of dominating just as Pedro was getting earlier in the game. LOL I don't know what chart you're pointing to with your last sentence, but if you're pointing to his stats, then you're proving my point.

 

[leomac08]

HAPPY HALLOWEEN EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hahaha

last day of october............

it's raining in philly........

 

[macfan881]

Wow i can see the philly fans are being classy tonight with the ur on steroids chants to andy stay classy philly fans

 

[jecapaga]

Wow i can see the philly fans are being classy tonight with the ur on steroids chants to andy stay classy philly fans

class and philly. Ain't happenin'. Ever.