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MLB 2009 Season

robo said:
Maybe you call the umpire's union and complain and maybe they will listen my "Fair Weather" friend:p
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The last game of the World Series should not be decided on crap calls.

Oh noes the crappy Phillies pen.:p
 
str1f3 said:
First off you're bringing up teams from over ten years ago. Are they any good now? No. That's why they are not considered. They are not playing with the Angels, Yankees, Red Sox and Devil Rays of 2009. Those were different teams of a different era. They have no purpose in this conversation. The reason why I brought up those three teams is that they are good today and have been for awhile now. That is, unless, if I'm mistaken and the D' Rays managed to beat those teams to get to the WS.


As for that '01 team you go on for a whole paragraph about Ichiro. Yes he is a great player and I forgot to mention him. It's only because that '01 Mariners team was so forgettable. You can cite the career years of those marginally average pitchers whom no one know and probably aren't even in the sport anymore. You can't name me one of their pitchers who went to go on to have any semblance of an HOF career. They were an average team who had a great regular season. Compare that team to that Cubs team and the '98 Yanks and it is laughable. Those two teams had a slew of HOF and were undisputed great teams. The fact that they won 116 games and aren't even favored by Vegas to win the ALCS should tell you about how 'great' they were.


I'm wondering how in the heck you consider that Mid 90s Mariners team with Griffey, Martinez, Buhner, Randy Johnson, Mike Blowers, and Jeff Nelson a Cinderella team is beyond me. That team had an incredible amount of talent with the best player in the game and the second best pitcher. That is insanity.

BTW if you think that it's somehow a weak strategy to win on the back of one excellent pitcher then you should watching the Phillies tonight and see why that's not true.
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First off, considering what teams were consistently good in the past ten years, (That would be 2000-2009 by my count...), I'm missing how the 2000-2003 Mariners wouldn't count. Their worst season left them with "only" 91 wins, and their best tied the major league record at 116. Not a bad 4-year span. Let's look at it another way--in 2001, they were so good that the Athletics won over 100 games and still only got the wild card. If I'm not mistaken, you can count on one hand the number of times that's happened in the past decade. Obviously the Mariners of 09 are not in the same picture as the Angels/NYY/Sox of 09. Never said they were. But in the scope of good teams in the past decade, you've got to have one heck of a selective memory to ignore those four years of Seattle baseball.

Next, let's examine your list of forgettable players: Bret Boone hits .331/37HR/141RBI. Ichiro with the aforementioned stats. John Olerud and Edgar Martinez both hit over .300 Darn. Carlos Guillen was our shortstop--he hasn't exactly had a worthless short career, last I checked. You want a memorable pitcher? Try Jamie Moyer, who went 20-6. Yup, we all forgot about him when he won a World Series ring last year. Freddy Garcia went 18-6 with a 3.05 ERA--he wasn't exactly a nobody either. Chicago was awfully glad to get him later...Kaz Sasaki got 45 saves. How forgettable. Nope, nobody worth remembering on that team. If you're worried about future HOF members, if ANY DH ever gets in, it'll be Edgar, Ichiro should make it (unless he blows up...and given that he's been one of the most consistent players in the game, I wouldn't take that bet), and Moyer certainly should have a shot, too.

Next, let's examine your theory that the '95 team was far and away better. Here's the '95 lineup (A-Rod not listed because he was a non-factor who barely played in '95. 1996 was his breakout year when he should have won the MVP)
avg slg rbi hr
# C Dan Wilson, 119 games, .278, .336, 51, 9
# 1st Tino Martinez, 141 games, .293, .369, 111, 31
# 2nd Joey Cora, 120 games, .297, .359, 39, 3
# 3rd Mike Blowers, 134 games, .257, .335, 96, 23
# SS Luis Sojo, 102 games, .289, .335, 39, 7
# LF Rich Amaral, 90 games, .282, .342, 19, 2
# CF Ken Griffey Jr., 72 games, .258, .379, 42, 17
# RF Jay Buhner, 126 games, .262, .343, 121, 40
# DH Edgar Martinez, 145 games, .356, .479, 113, 29

So, who stands out: Edgar, for sure. He was unreal all year, and almost single-handedly saved the Mariners in the playoffs. He was responsible for 7 RBIs in Game 4 alone, and of course hit "the double" which scored Jr from first to send Seattle to the ALCS. After that: Griffey was great, but he was also gone for half the season because he ran into a wall and broke his wrist. So while he was great when playing, you've got to remember that his value was cut in half. After that you've got a solid bunch of guys, but nobody really stands out, except Buhner with his 40HR. Sure, the team was really good, but not as fantastic as you make it sound. Remember, these guys only make the playoffs because the Angels went into a MASSIVE slide. As far as pitching was concerned, again, it pretty much consisted of Johnson and, well, Johnson.

Here's the line on the '01 Mariners:
Games Hits Avg HR RBI
C Dan Wilson 123 100 .265 10 42
1B John Olerud 159 173 .302 21 95
2B Bret Boone 158 206 .331 37 141
3B David Bell 135 470 .260 15 64
SS Carlos Guillén 140 118 .259 5 53
LF Al Martin 100 283 .240 7 42
CF Mike Cameron 150 144 .267 25 110
RF Ichiro Suzuki 157 242 .350 8 69
DH Edgar Martinez 132 144 .306 23 116

Their starting rotation was remarkably good, too
Player ↓ GP ↓ GS ↓ IP ↓ W ↓ L ↓ ERA ↓ SO ↓
Freddy Garcia 34 34 238.2 18 6 3.05 163
Aaron Sele 34 33 215.0 15 5 3.60 114
Jamie Moyer 33 33 209.2 20 6 3.43 119
Paul Abbott 28 27 163.0 17 4 4.25 118
John Halama 31 17 110.1 10 7 4.73 50

Halama was nothing special, sure, but the team was best in the league in runs allowed for a reason. Most runs scored, too.

Finally: Yes, you can win on the back of one pitcher...but eventually it's going to catch up to you. The '95 Mariners were exhausted by the time they got to Cleveland. The Phillies are going to be amazingly lucky if they can pull through on Lee alone.
 
Has Fox Showed any good Yankee highlights in these series in there segments? I love how the yanks just had a big Rally and all fox showed were the mistakes the Yankees done Stay Classy Fox:rolleyes:
 
Charlie Manuel made one mistake by replacing Victorino with Francisco instead of Ibanez (which probably cost the Phillies 2 runs)....

At least he isn't compounding that mistake by putting Lidge in....
 
Phillies still alive....

Valiant effort by the Yanks...but not enough....

Off to Game 6.....
 
MacNut said:
And then die a horrible death.
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Maybe, but they won't go down easily. It was scary to see the Yankees rally late in the game and I have a feeling they will be swinging their bats early in New York on Wednesday.

I think the momentum is with the Yankees with their late rally, even though it fell short. But the Yankees had a huge deficit to make up for. And now with the game going to New York, it will take a miracle for the Phillies to win on Wednesday. If the Phillies win, it may be just enough to get an edge on the Yankees.

But when the announcers talk about the Phillies being Lee and Utley, that's no consolation going against all the big names with the Yankees.

This is the ultimate David vs. Goliath match. I can't wait.:D
 
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