More Evidence of Apple's Massive Marketshare Growth in Higher Education

[polaris20]

I keep hearing about how the virus issue on Windows is overblown (or marketing FUD from Apple ) while at the same time I keep hearing people I know complain about their PCs being wrecked recently by viruses.

Your friends are hardly an accurate and balanced study of the Windows user base. Kinda anecdotal, don't you think?

Actually, finding info about what hardware works for building a Hackintosh is hardly a chore today. It can be done in a weekend or so, less time than it would probably take for the average user to decide which Mac to buy.

Of course, it helps a great deal if you have some experience in assembling a PC and if you're really good at it, amazing things do happen. When it comes to portables though it's a lot harder since you can rarely pick what hardware it should have. There are several ok models to choose from, from what I've seen, but then they preferably have to have a reseller in your country or you might as well buy a real Mac.

The Hackintosh I previously owned was the greatest computer I've ever had. Unfortunately it wasn't as easily portable.

Sorry, I didn't realize we were discussing a hackintosh build. In which case I would just go with this anyway, as they tell you in clear terms what to buy, and you do not have to rely upon a community to update software.

Thats complete techno babble to an average user.

Chances are if you're already researching parts, you're fine with building a PC. If not, there's always Dell on the PC side or of course Apple.

 

[windywoo]

Of course they are. They use Windows.

Why are they still using Windows if they have a friend like you who can tell them the joys of OSX? Could it be anything to do with price?

 

[Eidorian]

Of course they are. They use Windows.

Not sure if serious...

Or the same user.

 

[LagunaSol]

Your friends are hardly an accurate and balanced study of the Windows user base. Kinda anecdotal, don't you think?

If the typical Windows user doesn't feel the pain of viruses, then Apple's ads are irrelevant and ineffective and they would have stopped running them long ago. I find the accusations that Apple is lying about the Windows virus threat to be hilarious (and the very apex of fanboyism, to use a term so popular in these forums), as there are headlines almost every day about Windows viruses wreaking havoc on the computing world. And not just to Joe P. Idiot, as the Winbots would have you to believe, but to large businesses and government agencies as well.

Here's the deal with these ads: the Apple ads are good because Windows users relate to them.

The Microsoft ads, on the other hand, either:

1) tell a lie that almost all potential customers recognize as a blatant lie ("It costs $30,000 to fill your iPod with music!")

or

2) tell people what they already knew anyway ("PCs are cheaper than Macs.")

 

[LagunaSol]

Could it be anything to do with price?

Of course.

 

[Burning Radio]

Add one more mac sold for higher education!

 

[LagunaSol]

Not really. It took me five minutes to find something suitable with a Phenom II quad, memory, case, drives, etc. for about $600. That's with a 9800GT and 2TB of space.

Please tell me you spend 5 minutes when you research the components for your PC. Seriously.

Back when I was building PCs, I was reading hardware reviews and shootouts (Tom's Hardware, Anandtech, etc.), creating spreadsheets comparing prices between various vendors, looking at user reviews ("This power supply is WAY TOO LOUD!"), trying to figure out which processor worked with what mobo, etc. Perhaps I was overly diligent about the process. But I hardly believe that you guys simply hit a couple of Buy Now buttons, wait for the packages to arrive, and then throw everything together during commercial breaks while watching Survivor. Maybe if you're assembling clones for friends based on kits you've already used, but not when you're building your own personal machines.

Great, building your own PC is cheap and the options are limitless, but can we at least be honest about the amount of time it takes to actually do this?

5 minutes. Good grief.

 

[Eidorian]

But I hardly believe that you guys simply hit a couple of Buy Now buttons, wait for the packages to arrive, and then throw everything together during commercial breaks while watching Survivor. Maybe if you're assembling clones for friends based on kits you've already used, but not when you're building your own personal machines.

Great, building your own PC is cheap and the options are limitless, but can we at least be honest about the amount of time it takes to actually do this?

5 minutes. Good grief.

That's pretty much what I do for my own personal machines. The only limitation I've found is the speed of my internet connection.

Maybe it helps that I have quite a few price lists memorized and I don't have to do any research with RSS feeds bring it all to me.

Add one more mac sold for higher education!

Please tell me you took advantage of Back to School promotion or compared it against a refurbished machine first.

 

[supmango]

You obviously don't push or use your mac much. I have crashed OS X routinely since 10.5 came out. I am not complaining because I agree that it is very stable but please don't exaggerate by saying that OS X doesn't crash.

I have had Safari (Apple's own browser) blow out and take the entire system down to an automatic power-off. This has happened on several Apples, a 2007 MacPro, a 2008 macbook pro, a 2009 macbook.

Using USB peripherals can also cause lock ups with OS X. I find Windows 2000 and now Windows 7 the equal to OS X in terms of stability. But OS X 10.5 is one of the worst versions of OS X, 10.0 & 10.1 being the worst.

I am hoping that one of the "FEATURES" of Snow Leopard will be improved stability by rewriting finder. Finder in my opinion sucks, has sucked, and is long over due for a re-write.

I push my mac very hard and never have crashes. I am curious what circumstances you have that cause yours to crash.

 

[celtikmind]

Am I the only one thinking we're all moving in a circle?

If the aim is come to any consensus, could we establish some conditions i.e. what userbase we're talking about. There isn't going to be much love around here while y'all are poking each other with cheap sticks? Every tool has it's use so of course you'll find both bad and good points with each.

I push my mac very hard and never have crashes. I am curious what circumstances you have that cause yours to crash.

Oh, come on. Then you obviously haven't had enough fun with it!

 

[-hh]

I hate to bust a lot of people's bubbles...but you do realize that this "survey" is of only 1 college/university in the entire USA...Univ. of Virginia.

While that particular university surely has Mac growth, 1 university certainly does not reflect an entire country's college community.

True, but it is nevertheless *a* datapoint.

Plus, if you hadn't noticed, there's been two other schools with similar trends also mentioned in this discussion...

...and sure, while we can say that N=3 still isn't statistically significant, there must be some point where we will be finally motivated to say, "Gosh...I wonder if these are indicators of a larger trend?".

FYI, at least once, the USA has undertaken programs to change/improve military equipment based upon N=2 soldier deaths in Iraq. This is merely an illustration that contextual factors also matter in trending decisions.

Statistics like this article really have no value. Show me some national statistics or worldwide stats.

Yes, 'more data' would be nice, but there's only so much that we can expect to be given to us for free. As the saying goes, "beggars can't be choosy".


-hh

 

[polaris20]

Please tell me you spend 5 minutes when you research the components for your PC. Seriously.

Back when I was building PCs, I was reading hardware reviews and shootouts (Tom's Hardware, Anandtech, etc.), creating spreadsheets comparing prices between various vendors, looking at user reviews ("This power supply is WAY TOO LOUD!"), trying to figure out which processor worked with what mobo, etc. Perhaps I was overly diligent about the process. But I hardly believe that you guys simply hit a couple of Buy Now buttons, wait for the packages to arrive, and then throw everything together during commercial breaks while watching Survivor. Maybe if you're assembling clones for friends based on kits you've already used, but not when you're building your own personal machines.

Great, building your own PC is cheap and the options are limitless, but can we at least be honest about the amount of time it takes to actually do this?

5 minutes. Good grief.

Yup, about 5 minutes or so to fill a cart at Newegg.com. A couple things here: I've been building PC's (anything from low end desktops to 8-way rackmount servers) for over 10 years now. I have my favorite brands. I know what works well. I only order from Newegg.com or MWave.com, because while I can hunt to save $10 or so, I get good service from these sites, so I don't fix what ain't broken.

I always buy Antec cases. I love the cases, and I really like their power supplies. Haven't been burned yet. I always buy Crucial RAM. Anytime I've strayed, I've gotten burned (Kingston, Edge). I always buy nVidia cards. They work well in Linux, and since I usually build machines that can dual boot, this is important. I always buy Gigabyte boards. Again, I've never gotten burned.

See a theme here? It takes very little to assemble a machine that's going to run for years and years. My wife's Athlon 2200+ is still chugging along, and I built that in 2002. The only problem is the internal NIC took a dump, so I threw a $10 Netgear in one of the slots. An old Thunderbird-based Athlon I built for a friend is still running as a Samba file/print server. My sister's 1Ghz Intel PIII system is her DVR. Built that one in 2000.

 

[-hh]

... have my favorite brands. I know what works well. I only order from Newegg.com or MWave.com, because while I can hunt to save $10 or so, I get good service from these sites, so I don't fix what ain't broken.

I always buy Antec cases. I love the cases, and I really like their power supplies. Haven't been burned yet. I always buy Crucial RAM. Anytime I've strayed, I've gotten burned (Kingston, Edge). I always buy nVidia cards. They work well in Linux, and since I usually build machines that can dual boot, this is important. I always buy Gigabyte boards. Again, I've never gotten burned.

See a theme here?

Yes: you're willing to pay more for specific brands which have proven themselves to you.


Sooooo.....

How is what you're doing any different than how some people simply choose that 'worth paying more for' brand to be Apple?


-hh

 

[polaris20]

Yes: you're willing to pay more for specific brands which have proven themselves to you.


Sooooo.....

How is what you're doing any different than how some people simply choose that 'worth paying more for' brand to be Apple?


-hh

It's not different, nor did I claim it was. And I own a Mac. Two, actually. So I'm not sure what you're getting at. I was just saying it really doesn't take an eternity for some people to put together a quality machine.

My continuing point on this board is that there's a time and place for all 3 major OSes, something fanboys/apologists on all sides of the fence seem to deny.

 

[-hh]

It's not different, nor did I claim it was. And I own a Mac. Two, actually. So I'm not sure what you're getting at. I was just saying it really doesn't take an eternity for some people to put together a quality machine.

Fair enough.

FWIW, I agree that it doesn't take an eternity, but it isn't immediate gratification either. And I'm sure that you'll agree that it took you more than 5 minutes to learn what parts vendors could be trusted (and not trusted), plus after all the components arrive, that it then also takes some non-finite amount of time to assemble, install OS, install Apps, etc, which ultimately adds up to far more than just 5 minutes.

The problem is generic in that there's far too may DIY'ers who ignore all of these time factors which ultimately add up to X hours of their sweat equity, who then later claim that paying anything extra to buy an assembled product is a rip off.

And my stock response to these individuals is that since they place zero value on their free time, I have plenty of back-breaking yardwork that they need to come over to my house to do for me for free this weekend. Doesn't matter if its 5 minutes or 5 hours...I'll work them like a dog

My continuing point on this board is that there's a time and place for all 3 major OSes, something fanboys/apologists on all sides of the fence seem to deny.

Certainly. They're just different tools in the toolbox. And similarly, some have features which are worth paying a bit extra for.


-hh

 

[SansSociety]

At my school, our computer store doesn't even sell PC boxes, other than 1 netbook from Samsung. This certainly contributes to the increase in Macs being used here.

I don't think this will necessarily translate to the type of brand loyalty people anticipate. Many here pick up a Mac just because they're pretty pieces of hardware, caring little about what actually runs the thing. Once they're out and mommy and daddy aren't picking up the tab anymore I don't anticipate this trend continuing into adulthood.

I think the biggest inhibitor is having to compute and work in a PC world - many people don't want to hunt down the Mac substitutes when certain types of software have become an institution in the work place. For instance, students in my business stats class are having a really difficult time because they can't do regressions on Excel. Forget boot camp or parallels for many of these people.

I kinda like the way things are at this point. I want Apple to remain profitable but I certainly like that hackers target pc boxes due to their size.

 

[polaris20]

Fair enough.

FWIW, I agree that it doesn't take an eternity, but it isn't immediate gratification either. And I'm sure that you'll agree that it took you more than 5 minutes to learn what parts vendors could be trusted (and not trusted), plus after all the components arrive, that it then also takes some non-finite amount of time to assemble, install OS, install Apps, etc, which ultimately adds up to far more than just 5 minutes.

The problem is generic in that there's far too may DIY'ers who ignore all of these time factors which ultimately add up to X hours of their sweat equity, who then later claim that paying anything extra to buy an assembled product is a rip off.

And my stock response to these individuals is that since they place zero value on their free time, I have plenty of back-breaking yardwork that they need to come over to my house to do for me for free this weekend. Doesn't matter if its 5 minutes or 5 hours...I'll work them like a dog

The point I was refuting was that it takes hours just to research components, creating spreadsheets, etc. For an experienced DIY'er, it does not require that time spent. Of course building a machine takes time. Probably an hour to build. The OS is highly dependent on what you're using. Ubuntu, for instance, is ready to go in under an hour, while XP takes considerably more time due to the boatload of patches and drivers that need to be loaded.

You're also ignoring the fact that many people enjoy this whole process, and derive considerable gratification from building their own machine. It's a hobby itself. Yard work is a bad comparison, because I've yet to find a sick individual that enjoys mowing the yard, pulling weeds, or planting bushes. Perhaps they're out there though.

Certainly. They're just different tools in the toolbox. And similarly, some have features which are worth paying a bit extra for.

-hh

Yes, which is why I use top quality components for PC's I build, insist upon Lenovo Thinkpads for my Windows and Linux laptops instead of the drivel peddled by Dell and HP these days, and of course why I insisted upon a MacBook Pro for my main laptop.

 

[-hh]

The point I was refuting was that it takes hours just to research components, creating spreadsheets, etc. For an experienced DIY'er, it does not require that time spent.

It depends on how one counts. For example, did it not take you many hours to become an experienced DIY'er? At some level, these hours are an investment that also must eventually show up on the proverbial 'balance sheet', because experience isn't a commodity that comes along for free.

You're also ignoring the fact that many people enjoy this whole process, and derive considerable gratification from building their own machine. It's a hobby itself.

The hobby dimension has been discussed before - - its just not been mentioned here until now.

I used to DIY a lot ...and I used to enjoy it... and while I still DIY occasionally, I no longer personally find it to be something that's "Fun" (hobby) - - its simply a chore that I choose to do in order to save some money, time, or convenience versus farming out the work to a service.

The bottom line is that if it is a hobby, then in these sorts of discussions, this factor should be clearly mentioned upfront, before any discussion of there also being a cost savings.

Yard work is a bad comparison, because I've yet to find a sick individual that enjoys mowing the yard, pulling weeds, or planting bushes. Perhaps they're out there though.

It may actually be a closer parallel than you realize, since it similarly calls for working with your hands and after X hours, there's a similar reward of a physically tangible 'product'. As such, there's a percentage of people who enjoy it (hobby) and a percentage who don't (chore).

And FWIW, the same also applies to car maintenance & repair: some enjoy doing it, some don't...and there are some opportunities to save money. For example, when was the last time you did your own oil change? No matter how much of a hardcore DIY'er one might be, an oil change isn't much "fun" to do when its a freezing windy day in the middle of December and your shadetree location is an icy driveway.


-hh

 

[polaris20]

It depends on how one counts. For example, did it not take you many hours to become an experienced DIY'er? At some level, these hours are an investment that also must eventually show up on the proverbial 'balance sheet', because experience isn't a commodity that comes along for free.

Let me clarify myself; I was refuting the broad generalization made that it takes a long time to spec a system. Of course it took time to become experienced, however the broad generalization that it takes a long time to spec a system is inaccurate, because it's not 100% the case. It is only the case for beginners and some intermediate DIY'ers.

So for the forum member to respond with "come on, be honest. It take you longer than 5 minutes to spec a machine" is unwarranted, even offensive, because he has no idea how much experience I have, and no idea how good I am at it. He effectively called me a liar, because he was sticking to his broad generalization. Could he be right? Sure. Could he be wrong? Absolutely.

A better thing to say would be "well maybe you can do it that quick, but I bet there are a lot people that take a lot more time, and therefore it's not worth the trouble".

The hobby dimension has been discussed before - - its just not been mentioned here until now.

I used to DIY a lot ...and I used to enjoy it... and while I still DIY occasionally, I no longer personally find it to be something that's "Fun" (hobby) - - its simply a chore that I choose to do in order to save some money, time, or convenience versus farming out the work to a service.

All subjective.

The bottom line is that if it is a hobby, then in these sorts of discussions, this factor should be clearly mentioned upfront, before any discussion of there also being a cost savings.

I wasn't discussing cost savings. In fact I don't think you'll really find much these days in that regard, unless you use bargain bottom of the barrel components.

 

[skwirl341]

This thread reminds me of one of my favorite photos:

So much for "thinking different"

 

[-hh]

Let me clarify myself; I was refuting the broad generalization made that it takes a long time to spec a system. Of course it took time to become experienced, however the broad generalization that it takes a long time to spec a system is inaccurate, because it's not 100% the case. It is only the case for beginners and some intermediate DIY'ers.

Generalizations don't need to be pedantically 100% true. Whoever told you that?

Realistically, the only way that one becomes as productive as you claim is either:

a) when the learning curve is gone because it is a highly repetitive task.

b) one isn't objectively accounting for the time spent in researching.

So for the forum member to respond with "come on, be honest. It take you longer than 5 minutes to spec a machine" is unwarranted, even offensive, because he has no idea how much experience I have, and no idea how good I am at it. He effectively called me a liar, because he was sticking to his broad generalization. Could he be right? Sure. Could he be wrong? Absolutely.

Yet even you admitted: "Of course it took time to become experienced..."

Plus, there's objectively even more time spent to remain up-to-date.

The simple bottom line is that it takes time every week to stay on top of the new products in this industry, which isn't free: its overhead.

A better thing to say would be "well maybe you can do it that quick, but I bet there are a lot people that take a lot more time, and therefore it's not worth the trouble".

My remark, restated in that form is:

"Yes, I can put together a NewEgg order in 5 minutes too...but that doesn't include my time to check out the new/changed products and all the other research work, since some product somewhere will have always changed since the last time."

All subjective.

The "enjoyment" aspect is what's subjective, sure.

However, what remains ironclad objective is that it always takes some finite amount of time to DIY assemble a system, and there are many other alternative things that one could be doing with this time.

I wasn't discussing cost savings...

Except where you were?

"It took me five minutes to find something suitable with a Phenom II quad, memory, case, drives, etc. for about $600. That's with a 9800GT and 2TB of space."​

As I alluded to...a lower cost is invariably an element in these DIY discussions. And since you've already agreed that it takes a couple of hours to assemble that "5 minute NewEgg buy" hardware and install software, what's the real world total bill?

For example, is it $600, plus 4 hours of your free time?

My point is that it is a YMMV as to how much one wants to value their free time. For hobbyists who love doing this kind of stuff, its fine to say that, but it still needs to be clearly said...because not all of us similarly enjoy doing this kind of stuff: its not a labor of love, so there very well may be other things that we would much rather be doing with our time.

As such, if the hypothetical ($600 + 4hrs) PC is the alternative to a $750 PC, then its pretty easy to say that the 4 hrs = ($750-$600) = $150 and then decide if we're willing to effectively pay someone $150 in order to free up 4 hours to go do something that's personally more enjoyable (eg, golf, etc).

Objectively, one's time is always worth something. Personally, I've had occasions where I've even paid ~$50/hour just to catch some very much needed sleep.


-hh

 

[polaris20]

Let's revisit the initial exchange, shall we, hh? Pay attention to the bolded part.

This goes back to my "researching the parts to build your own PC takes time and lots of it" point earlier...

Not really. It took me five minutes to find something suitable with a Phenom II quad, memory, case, drives, etc. for about $600. That's with a 9800GT and 2TB of space.

Please tell me you spend 5 minutes when you research the components for your PC. Seriously.

Back when I was building PCs, I was reading hardware reviews and shootouts (Tom's Hardware, Anandtech, etc.), creating spreadsheets comparing prices between various vendors, looking at user reviews ("This power supply is WAY TOO LOUD!"), trying to figure out which processor worked with what mobo, etc. Perhaps I was overly diligent about the process. But I hardly believe that you guys simply hit a couple of Buy Now buttons, wait for the packages to arrive, and then throw everything together during commercial breaks while watching Survivor.

hh, I do not spend the time endlessly researching components as Mr. Sol does. I'm not a gamer, and therefore do not care what's absolutely bleeding edge. I spend more time in the john than I do researching components. Assuming I have normal bowel movements, that's not a lot of time researching components.

The "enjoyment" aspect is what's subjective, sure.

However, what remains ironclad objective is that it always takes some finite amount of time to DIY assemble a system, and there are many other alternative things that one could be doing with this time.

I don't think I said it takes 5 minutes to build a machine, did I? If you took it that way, I apologize.

Except where you were?

"It took me five minutes to find something suitable with a Phenom II quad, memory, case, drives, etc. for about $600. That's with a 9800GT and 2TB of space."​

As I alluded to...a lower cost is invariably an element in these DIY discussions. And since you've already agreed that it takes a couple of hours to assemble that "5 minute NewEgg buy" hardware and install software, what's the real world total bill?

For example, is it $600, plus 4 hours of your free time?

My point is that it is a YMMV as to how much one wants to value their free time. For hobbyists who love doing this kind of stuff, its fine to say that, but it still needs to be clearly said...because not all of us similarly enjoy doing this kind of stuff: its not a labor of love, so there very well may be other things that we would much rather be doing with our time.

As such, if the hypothetical ($600 + 4hrs) PC is the alternative to a $750 PC, then its pretty easy to say that the 4 hrs = ($750-$600) = $150 and then decide if we're willing to effectively pay someone $150 in order to free up 4 hours to go do something that's personally more enjoyable (eg, golf, etc).

Objectively, one's time is always worth something. Personally, I've had occasions where I've even paid ~$50/hour just to catch some very much needed sleep.


-hh

Hmmm....I don't see where I said "it's cheaper to go DIY". I see me saying this machine for $600. It's not cheaper to DIY, even when you do NOT factor in time spent building the machine and installing the OS.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...s&cs=19&kc=productdetails~desktop-studio-mini

$750, and that includes a monitor, which my spec did not. Now the machine I spec'd had an extra drive, but when you factor in the warranty and the monitor of the Dell, plus the ease of just pulling the Dell out of the box, I'd say it's a wash.

DIY is not for saving money. It's for either the enjoyment of building a system, or for getting precisely what you want. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[-hh]

hh, I do not spend the time endlessly researching components as Mr. Sol does.

Yet you've already admitted that you've spent some finite amount of time gaining your personal expertise.

Since one can't realistically order PC parts without knowing what you're going to buy, from a holistic perspective, this prior knowledge/experience counts as "Research".

I don't think I said it takes 5 minutes to build a machine, did I? If you took it that way, I apologize.

The problem here is twofold. First, it doesn't really matter if you're the most above average DIY'er in Lake Wobegon (see Lake Wobegon Effect), unless you're offering your phenomenal talents to everyone for free. Second, the classical DIY comparison fallacy is the failure to fully account for the costs, and in particular the time budgets by simply neglecting to include entire tasks. So by 'cherrypicking' just one single task of the larger whole, you followed ... nearly indistinguishably ... the classical fallacy that has seen many times before. True, it was wrong to preempt, but more times than not, where there's smoke there's fire.

Hmmm....I don't see where I said "it's cheaper to go DIY". I see me saying this machine for $600.

Even if it wasn't your explicit intent, you should at least by now realized that by mentioning a price ($600), you're invoking a cost/value debate.

DIY is not for saving money. It's for either the enjoyment of building a system, or for getting precisely what you want. Nothing more, nothing less.

While I generally agree, my observation is that your sentiment is quite rare.

Because it isn't the general case, it needs to be said more clearly upfront. The preponderance of popular opinion is that DIY is for 'saving money' ... which invariably includes false economies because they fail to account for many cost factors, often most notably the value of their time invested.


-hh

 

[polaris20]

Yet you've already admitted that you've spent some finite amount of time gaining your personal expertise.

Since one can't realistically order PC parts without knowing what you're going to buy, from a holistic perspective, this prior knowledge/experience counts as "Research".



The problem here is twofold. First, it doesn't really matter if you're the most above average DIY'er in Lake Wobegon (see Lake Wobegon Effect), unless you're offering your phenomenal talents to everyone for free. Second, the classical DIY comparison fallacy is the failure to fully account for the costs, and in particular the time budgets by simply neglecting to include entire tasks. So by 'cherrypicking' just one single task of the larger whole, you followed ... nearly indistinguishably ... the classical fallacy that has seen many times before. True, it was wrong to preempt, but more times than not, where there's smoke there's fire.

Wow, you really put a lot of thought into the psychology of DIY. Yet you're still missing my point.

Even if it wasn't your explicit intent, you should at least by now realized that by mentioning a price ($600), you're invoking a cost/value debate.

If that's how you like to interpret my meaning, that's fine, but you're interpretting incorrectly.

While I generally agree, my observation is that your sentiment is quite rare.

Because it isn't the general case, it needs to be said more clearly upfront. The preponderance of popular opinion is that DIY is for 'saving money' ... which invariably includes false economies because they fail to account for many cost factors, often most notably the value of their time invested.


-hh

Do you have a concrete study of this, or anything to back it up besides your observations? Because I know a lot of DIY'ers, and none of them think it's for a cost savings measure. Yours and mine are both anecdotal evidence.

I'm done here. You're clearly making things far more complicated and argumentative about a subject that doesn't need to be.

 

[-hh]

Wow, you really put a lot of thought into the psychology of DIY. Yet you're still missing my point.

Your point is that you're an impressive human who can do stuff.
Unfortunately, that says utterly nothing about what is typical.

Do you have a concrete study of this, or anything to back it up besides your observations? Because I know a lot of DIY'ers, and none of them think it's for a cost savings measure. Yours and mine are both anecdotal evidence.

Google now has over 1 million instances on "hackintosh". And if we specify cheap (hackintosh cheap), there's over 60,000 hits ... add to narrow it down to include a specific price point of $1000 (hacintosh cheap $1000), we still get over 10,000 hits.

Sure, our anecdotal experiences are different. That's the point.

I'm done here. You're clearly making things far more complicated and argumentative about a subject that doesn't need to be.

BTW, want to watch me go place an Amazon order? I bet that I can do it in ... only 4! ... minutes.

Of course, just like you, I already know exactly what I'm going to order.

And I'm also not going to count the time that it will take to install it.

If you want to narrow your blinders to look at just one discrete datapoint ... and one that's insignificant relevant to the overall intended task... that's fine, so long as we maintain the appropriate context and perspective that we're only talking about one small part of the whole. Otherwise, we're trying to let the tail wag the dog.


-hh