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I implied that a user must rave about the greatness of Apple to have a valid opinion???

I think you've been reading too many legal briefs... :p

It is not my intent to further "devolve" this thread over semantics.

I merely wanted to post that I enjoy reading the information that Aiden has shared with this forum over the years and that I do not consider him a Microsoft troll.
 
Aiden Shaw is a long time member of this forum and has contributed a significant number of informative and sometimes provocative posts.
True, mostly in the form of self-serving, pompous, demonstrative verbosity, embedded with tones of desperation driven by a perpetual obsession of seeking esteem, through a mundane attention to minutiae.
 
True, mostly in the form of self-serving, pompous, demonstrative verbosity, embedded with tones of desperation driven by a perpetual obsession of seeking esteem, through a mundane attention to minutiae.

And... I'm a confused girl when it comes to operating systems so expect me to change my mind.

Im open-minded but at the same time Im closed-minded.

I love Windows because it's a Gaming OS for me
I love Macintosh because it's an Artist OS for me
I love Linux because it's a Web hosting OS for me

I mainly buy Apple hardware because i can run those 3 OS on a single machine but at the same time, it hurts to see my Macs running Windows... It feels "wrong". I have a phobia of computer viruses.

And that's where i start to get negative on that operating system.
 
True, mostly in the form of self-serving, pompous, demonstrative verbosity, embedded with tones of desperation driven by a perpetual obsession of seeking esteem, through a mundane attention to minutiae.

Cuz, YOU'RE not verbose, self-serving, pompous, or seeking of esteem at ALL :cool:.
 
And... I'm a confused girl when it comes to operating systems so expect me to change my mind.

Im open-minded but at the same time Im closed-minded.

I love Windows because it's a Gaming OS for me
I love Macintosh because it's an Artist OS for me
I love Linux because it's a Web hosting OS for me

I mainly buy Apple hardware because i can run those 3 OS on a single machine but at the same time, it hurts to see my Macs running Windows... It feels "wrong". I have a phobia on computer viruses.

And that's where i start to get negative on that operating system.

All valid points! Which games do you prefer most? If they happen to be of the caliber of Halo, Doom, Wolfenstein, Prince of Persia, Quake 4, Spore Origins, Nanosaur, World of Warcraft, etc., they all run perfectly fine in OS X. Without question, Windows is a superior gaming OS, however, there are over 400 decent, high quality games currently available to the OS X platform. I do agree with you in that whenever I run XP, Vista or W7 beta on a Mac, It feels "cheap" and dirty by comparison to OS X, but this would only be our personal opinions, mind you;). Linux is great for web hosting, and Ubuntu has some really awesome GUI features. Overall, it is truly an advantage that Macs can run all three OSs, without hassle, but not without concern for viruses, malware, etc. - I do agree with you.
 
If they happen to be of the caliber of Halo, Doom, Wolfenstein, Prince of Persia, Quake 4, Spore Origins, Nanosaur, World of Warcraft, etc., they all run perfectly fine in OS X.

LOL -- Does it run Pong, too? I was really looking for a kickin' Pong machine ;).
 
I use OS X, Linux, and Windows every day. But I didn't marry any of them. I feel absolutely no guilt or sense of wrong from this OS Ménage à trois, and I readily admit to "using" any and all of them purely for personal or professional gain. OSs are tools -- not sentient beings! :)
 
It goes back to my bullet proof vest analogy (though perhaps I should have chosen something less violent): Vista is technically more secure but is attacked more directly (guy with the vest directly getting shot at).

I'd still rather be the dude out of sight without the vest, not even getting shot at.

SL really looks to be fixing this, since it'll supposedly be running full implementations of NX and ASLR, and will be running a 64-bit kernel.

It'll be the dude out of site, not getting shot at, wearing the bullet proof vest. And a helmet. :D

Then wouldn't that make Vista the better dancer? ;)

You forgot value, responsiveness, scent, innovation, appearance, security, earth-awareness, flavor, civic responsibility, performance, stability, chewiness, and sheen.

Sadly, I rather have that if I must, as opposed to Apple's supreme deafness. No headless Medium-Mac, no options for the mouse curve except theirs, disregard of security because it doesn't matter... and so on. It's all been said a million times while Apple continues to ignore what users want as opposed to what Apple wants. All of it are my gripes with Apple, not Microsoft.

Eidorian, do you think Windows 7 could very well be the death of Apple's Operating Systems ?

Is all this gloomy, death-wishing of your rival characteristic for MR? I have only been here a few months so... :p

Snow Leopard doesn't look all the enticing of an upgrade either.

My main worry about Snow as well.

And if each thread didn't have to devolve into an anti-troll defensive maneuver, we (i.e. those of us who use Apple stuff, choose to use Apple stuff, and enjoy using Apple stuff) could have some real, substantive debate about what Apple is doing wrong and what they're doing right.

Then what's wrong with you doing that? Did Apple send you as a sparring representative in their defense? Let us bitch and moan about our gripes with Apple. I would actually much rather hear yours than having you trying to dispell mine.

That way, when reading all the other Mac users opinions, I learn a lot more whether the thing I bitch about is reasonable or not and might be something Apple could improve upon. I don't bitch because I want to see Apple dead, I want them to fix it. Well, sometimes it might be a little fun in it, occasionally. ;)

I use OS X, Linux, and Windows every day. But I didn't marry any of them. I feel absolutely no guilt or sense of wrong from this OS Ménage à trois, and I readily admit to "using" any and all of them purely for personal or professional gain. OSs are tools -- not sentient beings! :)

I agree.
 
Seriously! I don't troll the Windows fanboy forums...I don't even know any of them really, except for maybe Winsupersite.

At my technical school this year there were literally HORDES of immature teenage MS fanboys. I was MINDING MY OWN BUSINESS...not saying anything to anyone and they notice I had my computer's wallpaper set to the default Mac OS X "Aurora" background. For the rest of the year it was, "Mac kid," "Mac ******", "Apple fanboy" along with asinine comments like, "People buy Macs just to look cool", "Mac sucks dick, get a real computer you sheep," "I bet Mac Kid wants Steve Jobs to **** him in the ass", etc. :rolleyes:

ballmerwtf2.png


They love fixing things and fiddling with things. Future IT people in an MS environment.

Which is fine, because MS needs them. As long as Windows exists there will be very busy IT staff everywhere.

I'm not sure what "real" computer means. Apparently some are unaware that there is another reality where everything usually works as intended, looks good, remains fast and stable, and where tech is actually fun.

Remember: misery loves company. How dare you *not* use Windows? What makes you think you don't have to suffer with the masses? ;)
 
Sadly, I rather have that if I must, as opposed to Apple's supreme deafness. No headless Medium-Mac, no options for the mouse curve except theirs, disregard of security because it doesn't matter... and so on. It's all been said a million times while Apple continues to ignore what users want as opposed to what Apple wants. All of it are my gripes with Apple, not Microsoft.

Actually, Apple is one of the the few that delivers what users want, or rather, what users never knew they wanted! Otherwise, their Mac business would be contracting far more than it is now. In fact, Apple hits the Premium end of the market and milks it. And they do beautifully by it. They sell on margin, not volume. And it's working very well.

Headless Mac? No demand for it. The demand seems to be among the forum-posting tech crowd. You might feel ignored, but the solutions for "Pro" users are the MBP 17-inch and the Mac Pro, and the Pro markets seem to be just fine with that - publishing houses, creative sectors, etc., from large to small to freelance.

You seem to be nit-picking about personal things. Yes, the mouse curve issue has always been a niggle for me, but in light of what I get with the whole Mac/OS X package, it's not a big deal, really. And there are third-party solutions for that, I believe.

Security? Apple seems to be on top of *most* things. When's the last time your Mac was infected with a virus? Are there any out there now? You really have no cause to complain in this area. Your complainint about an issue that doesn't really exist yet. In fact, we've got it good. REALLY good. Apple seems to be a bit slower to implement certain things on the security side. On the bright side, there's no tide of malware to really worry about. And Snow Leopard will improve things nicely. Just practice sensible security on your Mac (as far as OS X will allow) and you'll be just fine. Like the rest of us. And Unix security aint nothin' to sneeze at, by the way. Don't treat Unix like Windows. They're completely different. I'd rather be ona Unix box any day than an NT+patches box. I'd rather be on a system that is not a target, for which no real malware exists, which has been improved and hardened over the course of 30 years, and for which Apple can (ideally) develop security solutions ahead of time, before anything hits, if it ever does. And look on the bright side, with all the hyping up of Windows 7 on these forums, and the belief that it will be . . . insanely great (LOL), OS X will once again be a very uninteresting target. ;)

We on Macrumors, AI, MacNN, etc., reperesent only a small segment of Apple's wider market. I've never heard of demand for a headless-Mac oustide of these tech forums (at all.) If Apple wasn't giving consumers what they want, we'd see a much larger contraction in their Mac business in this economy. It just isn't happening. The contraction Apple is experiencing is the lowest in the entire industry. In fact, they'll lower their prices a bit way before they'd ever consider offering a headles Mac. Especially in light of the popularity of Notebooks. There is simply no demand for a desktop solution. Desktops are doing horribly these days. And we already have all-in-ones such as the iMac line, which itself is fading out of popularity in the shadow of Apple's notebook lineup. The paradigm shift occuring with the iPod Touch, iPhone, and the possiblities opened up by a netbook that doesn't suck (Tablet excitement) suggests that another desktop solution is the last thing on Apple's agenda. Desktops as we know them today are dying a slow death. Portability and miniaturization is the name of the game. And if you've got a notebook, Apple encourages you to add a larger display to that, if you decided not to get an iMac. Your healess Mac is the Mac Pro. Or, your headless Mac is the Mini. One day, with miniaturization pogressing in leaps and bounds, Apple will be able to stuff much more power into that Mini. But by that time, I think we'll all be part of a different computing paradigm.

------------------------------------

About your iTunes issue:

I had hoped that log would tell me more. It usually does. We'll leave that for now. Next thing to look at: what's in your startup items? have you got any kind of security-related app (third party) that might be interfering with iTunes? Have you changed your router settings recently (assuming you have a wired connection)?

If you don't mind, please post the link to the other thread you started about this.
 
The way I see it is, if you spend equal amount of money on hardware/software, the stability and overall usability is about the same.

Those who spent like $500 and expecting a same experience out of $3000 mac machines are out of your mind. If you spent $3000 on the top quality hardware, then you would have less issues with performances, crashes, and etc.

I own first general Mac Pro, and I tested both Windows Vista, Windows 7, and of course, OSX Leopard.

To be honest, I have no problem using any of these OS on this machine. I had several system crash with Leopard with this machine as much, if not more, than Windows vista or 7.

If I am to buy another desktop, it's probably going to be a PC desktop. Equally spent, PC offers more versatility, compatibility, and performance in all aspects.

I am not MS or Apple fanboy. Whatever works for you is what you should use. In all honesty though, those who are comparing the lesser PC against two or three times more expensive Mac needs to check their equation first.
 
I own first general Mac Pro, and I tested both Windows Vista, Windows 7, and of course, OSX Leopard.

To be honest, I have no problem using any of these OS on this machine. I had several system crash with Leopard with this machine as much, if not more, than Windows vista or 7.

You've had several "system crashes" ("as much, if not more, than Windows vista or 7") with Leopard, an OS that is specifically designed and tested to run on that hardware. That's next to impossible. Most users will see a "system crash" - I assume you mean that OS X BSOD-type error - maybe ONCE in their entire experience of using OS X, if that. A closed-system, in which the OS is locked to the hardware, in which the OS and hardware are designed specifically for each other, will always, in principle, on paper, and in practice, always, always, always, be more stable than an OS like Windows. There are exceptions, but that's not by design. And those exceptions are very few and far between. OS X's stability is unparalleled.

Something is very, very, wrong with your Mac Pro, or you've been trying to modify hardware, etc.

OS X simply does not crash. And not only that, it will not crash anywhere near, not even in the same galaxy of proximity (LOL) to any Windows version, past or present.

Either your memory isn't what it should be, or there's something else going on with your Mac Pro. You seem to be the exception to the rule, for some reason.
 
Overall, it is truly an advantage that Macs can run all three OSs, without hassle, but not without concern for viruses, malware, etc. - I do agree with you.

Just remember that advantage comes from Microsoft and Linux more generous licensing laws. ;) Who would ever think that the word generous and Microsoft could be used in the same sentence but there it is.

You are being overly paranoid about viruses. If you use Firefox, have a router and even a free antivirus you are pretty safe on Windows. I haven't had virus trouble on any of the 3 PCs in my house despite them being used by "ignorant" parents.
 
Also, sorry to say Windows 7 is a modified Vista. That's not a bad thing entirely, backwards compatibility is something Microsoft have to conform to at some basic level to maintain their dominance. You can't blame them for that. But on the other hand, don't be naive and believe that Windows 7 isn't just Vista with bells and whistles 'cos guess what kiddies?

Highly inaccurate and uninformed. 7 is much more than Vista with "bells and whistles". Perhaps you should try it before making comments?

*yawns*

Still 98 with a fancy theme if you ask me.

It's 2009 and yet there is still no equivalent to 'cp -u' in Windows.. the most basic of computing tasks. This fact alone boggles my mind, let alone everything else it lacks compared to modern Linux / OS X operating systems.

I don't see what all the fuss is about myself.

It will be no more than a gaming OS to me, if I want to get any real work done, I'll use Linux or OS X.

No cp -u command, yet networks around the world continue to run fine without it. How about how Linux/OS X lack in comparison to Windows operating systems?

Mail servers. Centralized authentication. Application serving. I'd even say databases, but that's debatable.

I hate to sound like the MS advocate since I love OS X and Linux for that matter, but seriously, there's a right tool for the right job, and MS does many things very well. Bagging on MS in the way that you have is unwarranted and uninformed.
 
I just went to the Windows 7 homepage. It looks like Microsoft is trying to copy OSX. LOL, and it still looks like a pathetic design. Just like Dell's attempt to replicate the iMac (I don't remember what it was called). My friend has one that she threw in the trash yesterday. For those of you thinking about going back to Windows with version 7, it will be like someone selling you on a Ferrari and getting home only to realize it's actually Hyundai with pretty packaging. I think it is hilarious that Microsoft has fallen so far that they feel the need to replicate Apple's design. Nothing original from Microsoft anymore. :apple:
 
True, mostly in the form of self-serving, pompous, demonstrative verbosity, embedded with tones of desperation driven by a perpetual obsession of seeking esteem, through a mundane attention to minutiae.

Indeed. John Dvorak-like verbosity and wikipedia-driven Windows knowledge are Aiden's main contributions to this forum.

He knows little about OS X and writes a near-zero number of positive comments about Apple, Macs or OS X, even when technical facts and customer satisfaction more than confirm Apple's superiority in a non-negligible number of areas.

In other words, he is a master Windows troll in a Mac-driven forum.
 
Highly inaccurate and uninformed. 7 is much more than Vista with "bells and whistles". Perhaps you should try it before making comments?



No cp -u command, yet networks around the world continue to run fine without it. How about how Linux/OS X lack in comparison to Windows operating systems?

Mail servers. Centralized authentication. Application serving. I'd even say databases, but that's debatable.

I hate to sound like the MS advocate since I love OS X and Linux for that matter, but seriously, there's a right tool for the right job, and MS does many things very well. Bagging on MS in the way that you have is unwarranted and uninformed.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/

+

http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/

+

http://www.apple.com/xserve/

All you'll ever need, right across the board.
 
Indeed. John Dvorak-like verbosity and wikipedia-driven Windows knowledge are Aiden's main contributions to this forum.

He knows little about OS X and writes a near-zero number of positive comments about Apple, Macs or OS X, even when technical facts and customer satisfaction more than confirm Apple's superiority in a non-negligible number of areas.

In other words, he is a master Windows troll in a Mac-driven forum.
Tell me more about John C. Dvorak. I brought it up years ago that he's just in for the sensationalist commentary to drive up page views. Not to mention he uses OS X.

Sadly I have our XServe doing OS X services only. FileMaker being the largest one.
 
Forgot this:

http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/snowleopard/

Looks pretty good.


Indeed. John Dvorak-like verbosity and wikipedia-driven Windows knowledge are Aiden's main contributions to this forum.

He knows little about OS X and writes a near-zero number of positive comments about Apple, Macs or OS X, even when technical facts and customer satisfaction more than confirm Apple's superiority in a non-negligible number of areas.

In other words, he is a master Windows troll in a Mac-driven forum.

It's alright, BR. We can't be happy and smug all the time, now can we. ;)

We shouldn't seem too satisfied. we wouldn't want Mac market share to be too high. ;)
 
What if you don't use any of those applications and features?

It's nice an all to say 300 NEW FEATURES but what if you don't use them?

It's alright, BR. We can't be happy and smug all the time, now can we. ;)

We shouldn't seem too satisfied. we wouldn't want Mac market share to be too high. ;)
You're giving Apple too much credit on "market share". It's nice to throw around to rally the users and the stock to show off at keynotes but in truth it's all about the money. Am I missing something?
 

No, unfortunately it's not all I'll ever need. As nice as OS X Server is, it really pales in comparison to what MS offers in the server realm. Some of it has to do with lack of 3rd party apps (not Apple's fault of course) but also lack of features in the OS itself.

Just as an example, their central authentication and mail servers don't even come close to the level of Active Directory or Exchange.

As far as I know, there isn't any Citrix XenApp/Terminal Services style app serving.

The lack of OS X Server running on a bare metal hypervisor also is an increasing disadvantage as virtualization grows more popular. This is more the fault of VMWare/Citrix/etc not supporting XServe as a bare metal platform, but it's a problem nevertheless.

This isn't a "fact" or "truth" as other board members like to call them, but opinions based upon what I've seen working in IT over the past few years. But I think it's a view more than a few hundred IT folks would agree with, regardless of if they love or hate OS X.

Can we stop ignoring that all 3 major OSes do somethings well and not everything perfect? Can we admit to ourselves that there's a right tool for the right job?
 
You've had several "system crashes" ("as much, if not more, than Windows vista or 7") with Leopard, an OS that is specifically designed and tested to run on that hardware. That's next to impossible. Most users will see a "system crash" - I assume you mean that OS X BSOD-type error - maybe ONCE in their entire experience of using OS X, if that. A closed-system, in which the OS is locked to the hardware, in which the OS and hardware are designed specifically for each other, will always, in principle, on paper, and in practice, always, always, always, be more stable than an OS like Windows. There are exceptions, but that's not by design. And those exceptions are very few and far between. OS X's stability is unparalleled.

Something is very, very, wrong with your Mac Pro, or you've been trying to modify hardware, etc.

OS X simply does not crash. And not only that, it will not crash anywhere near, not even in the same galaxy of proximity (LOL) to any Windows version, past or present.

Either your memory isn't what it should be, or there's something else going on with your Mac Pro. You seem to be the exception to the rule, for some reason.

You obviously don't push or use your mac much. I have crashed OS X routinely since 10.5 came out. I am not complaining because I agree that it is very stable but please don't exaggerate by saying that OS X doesn't crash.

I have had Safari (Apple's own browser) blow out and take the entire system down to an automatic power-off. This has happened on several Apples, a 2007 MacPro, a 2008 macbook pro, a 2009 macbook.

Using USB peripherals can also cause lock ups with OS X. I find Windows 2000 and now Windows 7 the equal to OS X in terms of stability. But OS X 10.5 is one of the worst versions of OS X, 10.0 & 10.1 being the worst.

I am hoping that one of the "FEATURES" of Snow Leopard will be improved stability by rewriting finder. Finder in my opinion sucks, has sucked, and is long over due for a re-write.
 
I am hoping that one of the "FEATURES" of Snow Leopard will be improved stability by rewriting finder. Finder in my opinion sucks, has sucked, and is long over due for a re-write.

AFAIK, SL will have a re-written 64-bit Finder. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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