More Evidence of Apple's Massive Marketshare Growth in Higher Education

[IWantItThatWay]

MacBook is $999 and you only get 2GHz, 2GB RAM and a 120GB hard drive and integrated graphics.

 

[Pika]

If people like using windows or prefer it to the MacOS/Linux then so what? Why should it matter so badly to you to ram down our throats how macs are better and how Apple is killing Microsoft. I honestly have no problem with Mac users, except for people like you. The users who retain this aura of dickery that they have to cause this repeated arguement every time there's a Windows thread, they have to ram down our throats that we're wrong for preferring Windows and Macs are always how we should all switch.

Yes, so what that malicious coders view the mac too worthless an effort for having such a small share of the computer market to be worth making malware for it. Yes, I'm fully aware that there were viruses. But the reason there aren't actually that many is pure and simply there's more users running windows, so therefore it's the best target to have. People don't write viruses for macs because they know the bloody stupid thickos who click blatantly obvious links to virus sites use windows. What's the point in writing viruses for a underused system (I will admit it, the macs are underused compared to what they could be, and I hate macs ;D), when they can get millions of people afflicted by the same virus over on windows. Our dear friend conflicker showed us that one.

360 has a fair share in the console market. Wii only dominates due to the casual gamers, remember that. "Hardcore" gamers buy the 360 normally. PS3 if they want a paperweight for when they don't wanna play MGS4 or watch a Blueray movie. 360 HAS made it, just because it's not the leader of this console generation doesn't mean, even after all the red rings, that MS aren't getting a profit.

Wow, talk about "fanboyism." Casual gamers?
So your saying Professor whats his name Brain Training and all games that are of a majority on the wii aren't casual games? And before you say fanboyism, I play on the family wii, granted, on the games that aren't **** *shrug*

Paperweight???

It is for the most part, there are only two games I can think of that are worth playing for the wii

What the heck is a "hardcore gamer" and who cares anyway?

The people who don't play "Brain Training", "Cooking Mama", "Wii Sports", "Wii Play", "Wii Fit" and play the other games such as (For the Wii, 'cus this is the closest you'll get to "Hardcore/Core" gamers) "Super Mario Galaxy", "Twilight Princess", "Super Smash Bros Brawl". Though obviously on other consoles you have "mass Effect", "Metal Gear Solid 4", "Gears of War", "etc.". And the people who care? Sony/Microsoft. Nintendo just clutch them by the balls and twist.

Nintendo sells far more consoles (and a profitable price point since Day One) and more games than MS, despite the lack of hi-def graphics, digital surround sound, and legitimate online play. That must drive James Allard (oh wait, it's "J" now, you know, for hipness) crazy.

Like I said, Nintendo aimed at the casual market. The people who will just pick up a game like, lets say, Animal Crossing, or Wii Fit, once a day, when they've got nout else to do.

Xbox has been a money pit since the beginning. Selling at a loss for much of its life, an epic hardware failure rate (30%+?), and now its only claim to fame is its popularity among this mystical "hardcore gamer" group everyone refers too. Sadly for Microsoft, they're not "hardcore buyers." There aren't enough "hardcore gamers" on this planet to deliver Microsoft its white whale. Now they're working on their own "waggle" system to remain competitive. Following the real innovator - it's the Microsoft way.

Yes, and Sony tried to do it before MS just after Ninty announced it *shrug*. And in honesty. 360 has the same problem as the GC the previous cycle. GC was the cheapest console towards the end and was less than it's manufacturing price. By a fair bit. That's just console markets, the rise and fall of.

If Microsoft wasn't so desperate to become one of the "cool kids at school," they would have killed Xbox and Zune long ago. Both are complete flops using any business definition (unless your business definition of success is "losing money indefinitely"). Maybe their new hipster t-shirt business can give them the street cred they crave?

In fairness, MS don't exactly have not enough money to throw round, they were just ventures into the market.

Windows 7 is unreleased. It is not on the shelves.

There's no point in making any claims about what it will do for MS until it's been out 6-10 months.

MS doesn't exist in a vacuum, either. The competition will also be releasing a new version of its OS to run on its contunally-coveted hardware, and the most dangerous thing about the competition is, that they play it very close to the vest. We won't really know about any potentially "surprise" or "killer" features for sure until the reveal. And the competition, compared to MS, has had quite an impressive track record with respect to release cycles and quality of releases.

Windows 7 retail as yet doesn't exist. Until Average Joe plays with it, there's no point in making claims. And until we see sales figures and share numbers 6-10 months after its release, there's no point in making any claims about what it'll do for MS. We've already seen that baloney with Vista after 5 years of development.

And MS isn't dead. It's not even dying. Cheap and plentiful will always sell. The bottom end of the market pyramid is always wider, and that's where MS is firmly entrenched. Yes, its market share will take a hit as it has and its browser share will continue to decline, as it loses more and more of the coveted "premium end" of the market, but there will always be a big market for Windows running on whatever random generic PC. Plenty of people just don't care or don't know any better.

Ah, so you DO aknowedge MS isn't dieing. Because your previous posts have constantly given the impression "Windows 7 will show to be the biggest flop in MS history and Macs will become more popular". And the Average joe never actually complained ironically. Only people who use PC's for more than just Word/Internet have actually complained, hence why I said "Most this thread/IT Technicians" (Though I do know a few IT Techs that sing Vista's praises). Browser shares aren't genuinely important. They're free. Whether or not people switch to or from IE is not as important as the actual OS. Sure Apple see that the same way with Safari?

 

[*LTD*]

Ah, so you DO aknowedge MS isn't dieing. Because your previous posts have constantly given the impression "Windows 7 will show to be the biggest flop in MS history and Macs will become more popular". And the Average joe never actually complained ironically. Only people who use PC's for more than just Word/Internet have actually complained, hence why I said "Most this thread/IT Technicians" (Though I do know a few IT Techs that sing Vista's praises). Browser shares aren't genuinely important. They're free. Whether or not people switch to or from IE is not as important as the actual OS. Sure Apple see that the same way with Safari?

That last quote of yours was by me, not LagunaSol.

And I did nothing more than say that we should wait for Windows 7 to go to full retail, then wait a bit to make any deteminations. No one here said Windows 7 will be a flop, but merely that predictions about it being The Second Coming need to be tempered a bit in light of MS' track record. Apparently Microsoft beta testers either can't be trusted or they all had a massive brain fart during the Vista betas.

Seems you got the wrong impression, anyway.

 

[BongoBanger]

As a gamer of coming up for thirty years can I clear a few things up here?

1) Marathon isn't as good as Halo. Sorry, but it's not. Halo 2? Yes. Halo 3? Maybe. But Halo? Nah. No way. The best FPS is still the original Half Life especially if you include Opposing Force.

2) The Xbox 360 is pointless. I had one for about three months (mainly for Halo 3) then sold it as all the decent games available for it were on the PC anyway.

3) The Wii is different because it's a family/group entertainment device. It's the biggest paradigm shift since the PlayStation marketed itself as a games and music device - thus destroying Nintendo's stupid cartridge based format overnight - and a welcome one.

4) The best games platform is still the PC by a country mile. People keep waffling on about its demise but since there are millions more PC gamers than concole gamers it's a moot point.

 

[*LTD*]

As a gamer of coming up for thirty years can I clear a few things up here?

1) Marathon isn't as good as Halo. Sorry, but it's not. Halo 2? Yes. Halo 3? Maybe. But Halo? Nah. No way. The best FPS is still the original Half Life especially if you include Opposing Force.

2) The Xbox 360 is pointless. I had one for about three months (mainly for Halo 3) then sold it as all the decent games available for it were on the PC anyway.

3) The Wii is different because it's a family/group entertainment device. It's the biggest paradigm shift since the PlayStation marketed itself as a games and music device - thus destroying Nintendo's stupid cartridge based format overnight - and a welcome one.

4) The best games platform is still the PC by a country mile. People keep waffling on about its demise but since there are millions more PC gamers than concole gamers it's a moot point.

Marathon was released in late 1994 or so, and the last part of the series in '96 or '97 (Infinity.) I picked up Marathon in the summer of '95, and the rest as soon as they were released, all Mac versions. Marathon had an unbeatable story, really, that was beautifully integrated into the game itself. It was a pioneering effort back in the day and I've yet to come across an FPS that captures the imagination so well.

Not to say that Half Life wasn't amazing in its own right.

It seems that the current crop of shooters, however, have lost something the older ones had in abundance, either way.

 

[4D4M]

Now, here’s a question. With Windows 7 just around the corner, could Microsoft start to claw back lost market from Apple?

Here's an answer: No.

 

[Pika]

Here's an answer: No.

I wanna see if it floats or flops.

 

[4D4M]

I wanna see if it floats or flops.

Me too, me too. Interesting times. I suppose as far as public perception goes, it can't do any worse than Vista. And Redmond's legions of astroturfers are doing a fine job bigging it up around the forums.

 

[philips]

I guess people aren't as dumb as Microsoft thinks.

Many m-softies commented that MS hasn't yet completely assimilated the idea that there is a competition in the marketplace now.

And in fact, MS isn't scared of Apple: the two can easily compete on the same leveled play field. MS is scared of Linux eco-system much more, as it is impossible to compete against it. (And even Mac OS X includes (and depends on) some best fruits the Linux gave birth to.)

Honestly I think it might get ugly if MS decides to compete against Apple in full force. They already have H/W design expertise, acquiring some second tier OEM might change competitive landscape cardinally.

 

[Eidorian]

I wanna see if it floats or flops.

Float considering you can use it today.

This isn't the Vista Beta/RC. Maybe it's the hardware or improved OS this time around. Dual/quad cores are plentiful and 8 GB of DDR2 RAM is a joke to come by.

 

[Westside guy]

I wonder what UVA's computer lab division is now, if they even still have them. When I went to school there, I think only the Education school had a Macintosh lab, but it was open to all students (as were all the undergraduate computer labs). The College of Arts and Sciences and the Engineering school had IBM PC-compatible labs. Back then, most students did not own personal computers (which were still very expensive) and only a few universities were requiring their students to have one.

Now I see from the chart (following the link) that nearly everyone enters university with a computer and some people with two. I was surprised how few Other OSes were represented (< 20 in most entering classes). I would have expected Linux to be gaining share.

At a lot of universities - certainly in the department where I work - there is a lot of debate over whether it makes sense to keep funding computer labs. In our case, being an electrical engineering department, we'll probably continue - and probably continue to be Dell+Windows based. The software packages the kids need (based on what's used in industry) is very expensive, and frankly there's no way we could afford individual licenses so every student could install it all on their own computer. Seriously, we're talking about several thousand dollars cumulative for each student, if we went that way.

I also have some concerns regarding the effect of eliminating computer labs on lower-income students - so hopefully the schools that do that will at least buy or lease computer for the kids that really need it.

As an aside - even with our department being so Windows-centric, a very large percentage of the laptops students and faculty buy themselves are now Macs. I suspect that eventually it'll get through even my boss' head that the Mac users seem to need far less support. We have a pair of full-time Windows guys, and I only support the Macs "on the side" - we officially don't support Mac, until a faculty member comes in and my boss sends them to me, but it's not part of my job description or anything like that. Anyway generally speaking these new Mac users sometimes need some hand-holding at first, then maybe a few odd questions down the road, but almost no on-going support.

 

[xerenthar]

UVA has insane entrance requirements now. In most college guides, the average high school GPA for UVA is given as 4.0. Virginia is an affluent state. Its proximity to Washington, D.C., and entering class of about 50% Virginians means that it recruits the very best and brightest from a very influential part of the U.S.A. Don't underestimate the importance of this one poll on college students. It might as well have been a poll on the whole Ivy League.

OUTRAGEOUS UVa trolling.

Am I the only one thinking open laptops in any class but a computer one are more a distraction from studies / lectures than otherwise? It's been a few years since college, but I've seen the glazed look of teenagers (and young adults) behind an illuminated apple logo.

Laptops are required in law school to take exams, and almost everyone uses them to "take notes." I'm in that pic somewhere, probably GChatting.

 

[AidenShaw]

Maybe it's the hardware or improved OS this time around. Dual/quad cores are plentiful and 8 GB of DDR2 RAM is a joke to come by.

Hardware is big - Vista is fine on a dual-core with 2 GiB or more, and a 128 MiB graphics card or better.

When Vista arrived in the fall of 2006, only the newest higher end systems could really run it well. Today, the weekly special at $599 is 2.3 GHz quad core, 8 GiB RAM, 256 MiB Radeon, and 750 GB hard drive. (At Apple, unfortunately, the same $599 gets you a 2.0 GHz laptop dual core, 1 GiB RAM, a 120 GB laptop hard drive and integrated graphics.)

Windows 7 is a big step in usability and performance, but we've also had a couple of years of hardware advances.

 

[Eidorian]

Hardware is big - Vista is fine on a dual-core with 2 GiB or more, and a 128 MiB graphics card or better.

When Vista arrived in the fall of 2006, only the newest higher end systems could really run it well. Today, the weekly special at $599 is 2.3 GHz quad core, 8 GiB RAM, 256 MiB Radeon, and 750 GB hard drive. (At Apple, unfortunately, the same $599 gets you a 2.0 GHz laptop dual core, 1 GiB RAM, a 120 GB laptop hard drive and integrated graphics.)

Windows 7 is a big step in usability and performance, but we've also had a couple of years of hardware advances.

That's the Radeon 3200 a.k.a. 780G. It's a delightful 55nm RV610 IGP on the chipset and sharing system RAM.

 

[0098386]

As a gamer of coming up for thirty years can I clear a few things up here?

1) Marathon isn't as good as Halo. Sorry, but it's not. Halo 2? Yes. Halo 3? Maybe. But Halo? Nah. No way. The best FPS is still the original Half Life especially if you include Opposing Force.

2) The Xbox 360 is pointless. I had one for about three months (mainly for Halo 3) then sold it as all the decent games available for it were on the PC anyway.

3) The Wii is different because it's a family/group entertainment device. It's the biggest paradigm shift since the PlayStation marketed itself as a games and music device - thus destroying Nintendo's stupid cartridge based format overnight - and a welcome one.

4) The best games platform is still the PC by a country mile. People keep waffling on about its demise but since there are millions more PC gamers than concole gamers it's a moot point.

Heh, that's pretty much my view too. Although I disagree on point 2. I just bought a 360 after keeping a fair distance for years. But it's really worth it now, granted I'm not playing much as I prefer FPS games the way they're meant to be played (keyboard/mouse) but Fable 2, Skate, and all them 10 a penny RPGs are actually quite good. And until I get a powerful enought PC I'll be playing many of the multiplatform games on my 360.

As gaming stands now you need all systems for a complete experience.

 

[DELLsFan]

LOL at many of these posts.

I'm starting to love Dell - makes you really appreciate Apple....

Aww ... that's so sweet. I love you too. I really appreciate Apple as well.

... Laptops are required in law school to take exams, and almost everyone uses them to "take notes." I'm in that pic somewhere, probably GChatting.

Forgive me for presuming the worst. Thanks to you and your use of quotation marks, everything I need to know and suspected about lawyers and college today can be found on a World of Warcraft server near you!

 

[AidenShaw]

That's the Radeon 3200 a.k.a. 780G. It's a delightful 55nm RV610 IGP on the chipset and sharing system RAM.

HP says 256 MiB dedicated VRAM, plus shared.

Graphics card ATI Radeon HD 3200 Graphics with 256MB dedicated graphics memory. Up to 3323MB Total Available Graphics Memory as allocated by Windows Vista​

Vista lets most graphics cards use system RAM if they run out of dedicated RAM. See what my Quadro says below (Vista x64).

Anyway, the HP has a PCIe x16 slot free if you want real graphics - the $599 Apple, no way.

 

[Eidorian]

HP says 256 MiB dedicated VRAM, plus shared.

Graphics card ATI Radeon HD 3200 Graphics with 256MB dedicated graphics memory. Up to 3323MB Total Available Graphics Memory as allocated by Windows Vista​

Vista lets most graphics cards use system RAM if they run out of dedicated RAM. See what my Quadro says below (Vista x64).

Anyway, the HP has a PCIe x16 slot free if you want real graphics - the $599 Apple, no way.

They must have opted for sideport memory then.

That HP is going to have at least one PCI-Express x16 2.0 slot in it.

 

[50548]

Well said, we heard the same crap before they released Vista.

Not to mention that MS spin doctors and fanboys on this forum will, of course, praise Windows 7 as a "new", "extremely performing" OS and try to make us forget about the train wreck that Vista was.

This is the hypocrisy of it all...they suddenly scream to all cardinal points that MS is actually doing a great job with Windows 7, which is nothing more than a rebranded Vista bugfix with the SAME set of drivers that Vista has, and a little more of MS's kitsch and tasteless user interface perks.

Make no mistake about it: Vista has FAILED and no one has adopted it en masse, despite MS's monopolistic abuses. For the first time in almost 20 years, the market as a whole saw the zero added value that Vista brought to corporations and private customers, and reacted accordingly. It's indeed absurd to see people defending Windows 7 as a brand new release, when they should be unmasking MS for phasing out the stillborn Vista so quickly and re-launching that piece of crap with a new number and a bunch of service packs.

To each his own, of course...MS IS DEAD.

 

[Eidorian]

Not to mention that MS spin doctors and fanboys on this forum will, of course, praise Windows 7 as a "new", "extremely performing" OS and try to make us forget about the train wreck that Vista was.

This is the hypocrisy of it all...they suddenly scream to all cardinal points that MS is actually doing a great job with Windows 7, which is nothing more than a rebranded Vista bugfix with the SAME set of drivers that Vista has, and a little more of MS's kitsch and tasteless user interface perks.

Make no mistake about it: Vista has FAILED and no one has adopted it en masse, despite MS's monopolistic abuses. For the first time in almost 20 years, the market as a whole saw the zero added value that Vista brought to corporations and private customers, and reacted accordingly. It's indeed absurd to see people defending Windows 7 as a brand new release, when they should be unmasking MS for phasing out the stillborn Vista so quickly and re-launching that piece of crap with a new number and a bunch of service packs.

To each his own, of course...MS IS DEAD.

It might be because the Windows 7 experience is actually good? It might be because we can actually use it on any x86/64 machine we want to try it out?

Vista added many services, features, and the lovable UAC. The Windows 7 Beta and RC are nothing like what the Vista ones were.

I'd like to know if you were in the Vista Beta/RC or have even tried out Windows 7.

 

[ozyr]

As a gamer of coming up for thirty years can I clear a few things up here?

30 years here too (yeah, I'm getting old... )

1) Marathon isn't as good as Halo. Sorry, but it's not. Halo 2? Yes. Halo 3? Maybe. But Halo? Nah. No way. The best FPS is still the original Half Life especially if you include Opposing Force.

No, Marathon isn't as good as those others, but it still is fun to play. Plus, it was the beginning with Bungie. No Marathon and there would have been no Halo.

2) The Xbox 360 is pointless. I had one for about three months (mainly for Halo 3) then sold it as all the decent games available for it were on the PC anyway.

From what I understand, console sales beat PC game sales. I'd have to dig for links and such, but PCs will never beat consoles. Just how I see it.

3) The Wii is different because it's a family/group entertainment device. It's the biggest paradigm shift since the PlayStation marketed itself as a games and music device - thus destroying Nintendo's stupid cartridge based format overnight - and a welcome one.

I would not call the Wii a family system. I am single, and play games on it by myself, and I love the system. And I don't consider myself a casual gamer.

4) The best games platform is still the PC by a country mile. People keep waffling on about its demise but since there are millions more PC gamers than concole gamers it's a moot point.

I would still say consoles beat PCs, but that is for another debate. Sure, a PC is a great game platform, but i don't play too many games on my computers. As for millions more PC gamers than console gamers, I have to see proof on that. From what I know, there are a lot of console gamers out there. (Note: not trying to argue here, just questioning the logic).

In fact, check this link out... http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=15831

From what I see here, Console games are beating PC game sales by a large margin!


For others here, sorry about straying off subject... just had to reply to this one.

 

[xerenthar]

Forgive me for presuming the worst. Thanks to you and your use of quotation marks, everything I need to know and suspected about lawyers and college today can be found on a World of Warcraft server near you!

now now. i have never seen anyone playing WoW during a law class. shopping, reading the news, gossip sites, postsecret, macrumors(cough), gchat, sudoku, online flash games... but no WoW.

 

[sjwk]

Looking at the figures here for our students (just the undergraduates anyway, graduates are all over the place so don't have any graphs for them), Apples are definitely on the increase - OSX is now up to about 16%. XP on 35% and Vista on 45%. Will have to check further on the breakdown by year. We do still have a lot of students with desktop PCs, although I'd guess the majority we see now are laptops. Either that or those with desktops can't be bothered to carry them down to us if they break

We have a few academics with Macs. All admin staff have PCs. The reason? (and the reason that a good number of students with Macs will end up back on Windows again when they leave): Too many Windows-only applications in the workplace. OK, yes, I know they could be run in Parallels/VMWare or bootcamp, but then we end up having to support two desktop environments, two sets of applications and deal with user failures because 'things are different', not to mention the cost increase both with the Macs themselves and the need to buy additional licenses of Windows to run the required applications.

I believe in the right tools for the job and I use Windows, Mac and Linux machines daily. In an ideal world, sure, it would be great for staff to be able to have Macs, for there to be good alternatives to established enterprise grade business applications just so that we do have the choice.

But until they leave and enter the corporate world, may the spread of Macs rapidly increase amongst the students - anything that cuts down the amount of spyware and viruses we have to clear up...

 

[BongoBanger]

Marathon was released in late 1994 or so, and the last part of the series in '96 or '97 (Infinity.) I picked up Marathon in the summer of '95, and the rest as soon as they were released, all Mac versions. Marathon had an unbeatable story, really, that was beautifully integrated into the game itself. It was a pioneering effort back in the day and I've yet to come across an FPS that captures the imagination so well.

Fair enough. It's a matter of personal taste I suppose.

It seems that the current crop of shooters, however, have lost something the older ones had in abundance, either way.

Absolutely agree. I bought Far Cry 2 as it received excellent ratings and just found it boring, generic and devoid of any differentiating factor. Crysis was great right up until they introduced the aliens then it just became a chore.

As gaming stands now you need all systems for a complete experience.

I dunno. The PS3 and Xbox 360 are interchangeable as far as I can see with the exception of a few premium titles. Neither fills me anticipation like the PS, PS2 and N64 did.

From what I see here, Console games are beating PC game sales by a large margin!

I don't think those figures include on-line sales through Steam and other channels nor will they include WoW, EVE, etc subscriptions.

Here's an article from March 2009 which may cover it off:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7960498.stm

 

[*LTD*]

In all honesty Windows 7 isn't looking too bad at all. It'll be an improvement over Vista, but the average user will decide in the end which way it'll go. It's not lookiing like a disaster, though. The first 6 months will tell the tale. We're a long way off from rendering any concrete judgments, though.

Sure, you can call it a warmed-over, re-branded Vista. But at least this time around it might end up being what should Vista should have been, and what was the dream of long-suffering Longhorn fans from 2003.

On a side note, all this talk of RAM, 8gb and what not, just inspired me to throw 2 more gb of RAM into my MBP! Hell, why not. I push this machine pretty hard sometimes, so more RAM wouldn't hurt.