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For what it's worth, and as someone in the music industry, let me just try to clarify one thing: From the outside, big labels must seem like corrupt businesses considering the finances involved in making and selling a record. I mean, $50 million to produce and sell a CD? Well the truth is that nearly 90% of all albums produced do not generate enough sales to cover their cost of recording (paying the studio, the session musicians, copyright fees, etc); therefore, it is up to the remaining 10%(ish) to make up for the lost revenue. It is those top few grossing CDs that are relied on to allow the creation of everything else (most likely the music YOU listen to).

Because of piracy, even those top grossing CDs are no longer producing enough revenue to support the vast majority of “small” artists, and so the record labels are forced to cut off the bottom rungs one by one. This, in turn, has caused those lesser known artists to turn to independent and P2P methods of sale, which (in turn) draws even more revenue from the companies.

I recently had the pleasure of talking with Steve Barnett, chairman and CEO of Columbia Records, who acknowledges this very serious problem and desperately seeks change from all parties involved. He explained that back when he was AC/DC’s manager, bands weren’t expected to have a hit record until maybe their 3rd or 4th album. A&R reps would look for bands based on their potential to grow, not their immediate potential to earn profit. However, because record labels can no longer afford to take risks due to low record sales, only those artists who they can guarantee to have a hit record are picked up, and all those potential talents are swept aside. In today’s market, as he explains, little bands like the Beatles, Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones never would have made it because no one would have taken a chance on them.

Think of all the wonderful artists we’ll never hear about because no one can afford to take the risk today…

Nice sentiment, and I understand that p2p piracy can play a part in this. Two things, though. First, to outright say that every player contains unpaid-for music is insulting and offensive to those of us who get our music legally. Secondly, with the Zune offering "beaming" or whatever it is for music sharing, how is it that this feature isn't being viewed as piracy? They're the ones allowing p2p sharing and so they're the ones paying the "fee". They didn't raise the price of the Zune, so whoever buys them (who's going to anyway?) won't be paying any more. As for setting a precident, Apple doesn't facilitate p2p sharing and so why should they even consider paying this "fee".
 
It's greed....

For what it's worth, and as someone in the music industry, let me just try to clarify one thing: From the outside, big labels must seem like corrupt businesses considering the finances involved in making and selling a record.

After reading your post - I believe you, I'm sure the costs of producing an album are insane, but the music industry is greedy. The problem is the industry is still operating on an "antiquated" business strategy. Back in the 50's & 60's yes, you HAD to have a manager, get signed up with a big label, cut an album, tour and start all over.... I know that studio time can be rediculously expensive... BUT.....

Today is totally different. Bands can do a lot of the "studio work" on their own for a lot less money. That's what has fueled the indy movement.... garage bands that can make an album and sell their own tracks online and pocket their own money.... They don't need to pay huge sums for marketing, since they market through online channels and have access to way more people, and get their sound out to a huge audience....

So the recording industry probably is losing money every year. But high CD prices for years, 13-year- old-suing shananegans, and their attempt to force Apple to raise iTunes prices on tracks that Apple bears all of the distribution costs for - they have dug their own grave and no one cares that big-wig music exes won't be able to get a $400k bonus this year.

All the bands have to do is cut out the labels, and sell directly through iTunes (or their own sites).
 
Microsoft Corporate VP of Entertainment & Devices Bryan Lee chimed in: "This is an industry in transition, and we at Zune feel that artists should be paid fairly. The agreement we are announcing today is one of many innovations we plan on introducing to the entertainment industry with our partners and highlights our commitment to growing the digital music space. We believe that the music consumer will appreciate knowing that when they buy a Zune device, they are helping their favorite artists get paid."

yes artists should be paid fairly, but this fee is not going to mean the artists are paid any more fairly. I would be extremely surprised if any of this fee goes to the artist... The only way for artist to be paid fairly is to eliminate record companies altogether...

CD's and Music downloads are already WAY overpriced due to how greedy record companies are, and all microsoft is doing is allowing them to be even more greedy.

What record companies need to realize is that "pirated music" is FREE ADVERTISING... There have been plenty of times I have downloaded music I would have otherwise never listened to, and went out and bought the CD a few days later cause I liked it so much...
 
I really don't think the Zune will fail that much, it's got Microsoft behind it and they'll promote it till they die. People who dispise iPods *sticks out tongue at them* will really love the Zune but I think for most people they'll stick with the iPod. Most people know the iPod/iTunes way and if they're happy they wont change :D

That's enough of a reason for me not to like it.

;)
 
I completely disagree with the assessment that major labels are evil and corrupt.

Honestly, they have good people working at them doing publicity, touring, graphics, marketing, A&R and much more. all of this costs money.

Music also costs much less in the US than europe. It is easy to blame people for not all the money going to the artist, but alot of money does go to artists.

the problem is that very few records released are profitable. for all the records coming out, with advances to artists, producers, after marketing costs it is hard to make a buck. for artists, but also for labels.

piracy has cost many friends of mine jobs. people with families and people to support. the next time you steal a song on p2p or another method.

know you are harming people. not everyone is living the high life. there are middle class people trying to make an honest living in the record biz.
 
So the recording industry probably is losing money every year. But high CD prices for years, 13-year- old-suing shananegans, and their attempt to force Apple to raise iTunes prices on tracks that Apple bears all of the distribution costs for - they have dug their own grave and no one cares that big-wig music exes won't be able to get a $400k bonus this year.

All the bands have to do is cut out the labels, and sell directly through iTunes (or their own sites).

Your wrong. when you compare prices of music here to Japan and Europe, it is way cheaper. the costs of touring an artist, music videos, promotion, marketing and more. artists get a very good deal.

they don't have to cut labels in on their touring or merch. its a difficult business. but people are doing what they can to do ok. and the era of big bonuses is history dude.
 
I completely disagree with the assessment that major labels are evil and corrupt.

Honestly, they have good people working at them doing publicity, touring, graphics, marketing, A&R and much more. all of this costs money.

Music also costs much less in the US than europe. It is easy to blame people for not all the money going to the artist, but alot of money does go to artists.

the problem is that very few records released are profitable. for all the records coming out, with advances to artists, producers, after marketing costs it is hard to make a buck. for artists, but also for labels.

piracy has cost many friends of mine jobs. people with families and people to support. the next time you steal a song on p2p or another method.

know you are harming people. not everyone is living the high life. there are middle class people trying to make an honest living in the record biz.

What really gets me is that they assume that EVERYONE is pirating music. If everyone were, they would be making NO money, not "less".
 
the problem is that very few records released are profitable. for all the records coming out, with advances to artists, producers, after marketing costs it is hard to make a buck. for artists, but also for labels.
I feel sorry for the individuals, but not the lot. Not at all. Just like I have no sympathy for all the typewriter manufacturing jobs that were lost when computers moved into the office.

Music is about art. About sharing sentiment. About feeling emotions. About making a statement. Trying to make it into a major money-maker is the best way to kill it. Just listen to the heartless droll of pop to see what I mean.

I'd rather listed to music from kids playing in GarageBand than pay to listen to mass-market crap like what's-her-name-flavor-of-the-month. At least the kids are trying to make a good sound. Trying to make art. Not trying to make money.
 
I couldn't agree more on the filler content comment. The reason i buy so few CD's is because there's usually only 1-to possibly 3 songs that i actually care to own on there. unfortunately lots of things arent even available on iTunes. Since i REFUSE to pay 15 dollars for just 2-3 songs that i cant even download legitimately, screw it, i'll just go with acquisition and find what i want. The joy of online music is the ability to pick and choose things out of any album without having to take the whole thing wasting space on music you dont like. CD's will probably not phase out anytime soon, since so many people have CD players and such, but with more players supporting mp3 format, burned music downloaded on the internet has nowhere to go but up when it comes to popularity, while prerecorded CD's are destined to plummet, but the people that peddle this stuff will probably work hard to keep it on a respirator.
 
Because of piracy, even those top grossing CDs are no longer producing enough revenue to support the vast majority of “small” artists, and so the record labels are forced to cut off the bottom rungs one by one.

Piracy is not the reason record sales are going down, most people who download music download because they cannot afford the music, if it were never possible to download music, it does not mean they would suddenly have the money to buy the music... they just wouldnt be able to buy it or download it...

If anything, the music industries reaction to music downloads has caused people to realize how greedy they are and decide "screw you im not paying for your overpriced CD's", and caused music piracy to happen more and more.

This, in turn, has caused those lesser known artists to turn to independent and P2P methods of sale, which (in turn) draws even more revenue from the companies.

Cry me a river, this is called competition, the artists are getting smart enough to realize they dont need the record companies.

Think of all the wonderful artists we’ll never hear about because no one can afford to take the risk today…

actually, if an artist is truly wonderful, they dont need a record company to get their music out, as i stated in my previous post, free music downloads are free advertising... More and more artists are encouraging people to download their music for free, it gets the word out... Some of my favorite bands would not be arround today if it werent for free music downloads...
 
How can you use the cash advantage to support your new music player?... Voila! A way to use mountains of cash to purchase market favorability without directly running afoul of corporate governance laws!

Give jettredmont a cookie. Insightful analysis.
 
This is a prime example of payola at its best.

I hope this does not impact what could ultimately happen to the iPod. That is, some record company nut has a "brilliant" idea and decides to charge Apple for every iPod sold.

I find it funny how Microsoft wants to go through great lengths to stop piracy. Yet with actions like this, Microsoft will only further increase the amount of pirated music to be playable on its Zune player and if others catch on to this move, the rest of portable digital players on the market including the iPod.

Here we go again... Microsoft first ruined the computer industry while Apple was on top and now, they're doing the same with portable digital players and the music industry while Apple is on top...
 
I feel sorry for the individuals, but not the lot. Not at all. Just like I have no sympathy for all the typewriter manufacturing jobs that were lost when computers moved into the office.

Music is about art. About sharing sentiment. About feeling emotions. About making a statement. Trying to make it into a major money-maker is the best way to kill it. Just listen to the heartless droll of pop to see what I mean.

I'd rather listed to music from kids playing in GarageBand than pay to listen to mass-market crap like what's-her-name-flavor-of-the-month. At least the kids are trying to make a good sound. Trying to make art. Not trying to make money.

This is true, and I agree with you, but when you aim to make a business distributing their sound, you also want to know that people will buy it and bring in profits for you. It sucks, and its not art, but thats the way it is for lots of things, especially motion pictures.
 
*holds tightly to iPod and CD collection*

While I understand that p2p is a big problem but this is perhaps a pathetic attempt to get even, and simply isn't fair. If they would just make CDs more appealing like adding more artwork, music videos, bios, and other incentives to buy an album then perhaps the problem wouldn't be so huge. I personally rarely buy CDs at full price because it simply isn't worth it to me.
 
Because of piracy

citation, please.

even those top grossing CDs are no longer producing enough revenue to support the vast majority of “small” artists, and so the record labels are forced to cut off the bottom rungs one by one. This, in turn, has caused those lesser known artists to turn to independent and P2P methods of sale, which (in turn) draws even more revenue from the companies.

Sounds good for the lesser known artists.

Think of all the wonderful artists we’ll never hear about because no one can afford to take the risk today…

But we will hear about them, online. The infrastructure just isn't quite done yet.

The A&R man is extinct; the record industry, which was only born of an artificial scarcity, is collapsing under it's own weight. The record execs can go hang out with the buggy-whip manufacturers and we'll all be just fine.

In Ireland, they are planning on extending this, so owning any device capable of displaying a "TV" image is liable for a license; including Macs/PCs and even 3G mobile phones.

Sweet - assuming they're feeding TV over the Internet and 3G networks. This could spur some real innovation in the video codec and distribution space.

Or are they just scamming the buyers and running back to their old PAL production studios?

Does it strike anyone else that M$ just may be the Devil? Maybe?:(

Welcome to the 90's, MrFirework. We're glad you could make it. :)
 
Let the Universal execs try to push Steve and his "crew". I have a hunch there are going to be a lot of options for musicians in the near future.

Does anybody remember the "MADE IN ITUNES" section that showed up in other countries?

https://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/06/20060620030809.shtml

Wouldn't it be funny if Apple offered a simplified online music submission service.

Cut the middle man out completely. With the development of myspace.com puremusic.com and other music websites, you are hearing more and more about independent groups.

A lot of these groups are getting air time (radio), which doesn't get your stuff played on MTV, but when is the last time you saw a video on MTV or VH1?

Now imagine a famous musician like John Mayer in a studio office and it's time to sign contracts and he decides to go on his own. He gets paid for the sale of every tune, rather than some greedy bastard in a not-so-cheap suit.

The whole MS paying Universal is as nuts as a fork, spoon, or knife manufacturer paying money to farmers for providing food for their utensils. I hear some of you saying "It's been this way for blank cassettes, blank CDs, and probably blank 8 tracks in the PAST"

WE'VE MADE A LOT OF DUMB MISTAKES IN THE PAST... slavery existed, women couldn't vote, teachers used to be able to slap students, we used to be able drive without seatbelts, the Flintstones cartoon used to advertise Kent cigarettes.

Just because these things happened IN THE PAST doesn't make it right.

Microsoft made a deal with the devil. We better all learn to play the fiddle really soon.
 
Piracy is not the reason record sales are going down, most people who download music download because they cannot afford the music, if it were never possible to download music, it does not mean they would suddenly have the money to buy the music... they just wouldnt be able to buy it or download it...


A bad deed plus a bad deed does not equal a good deed.

There are many people that I know who can afford to buy music but decide to download it illegally. What's your point?


If anything, the music industries reaction to music downloads has caused people to realize how greedy they are and decide "screw you im not paying for your overpriced CD's", and caused music piracy to happen more and more.


Before you say anything else about how greedy the record companies are and rally protests of anti-record companies, please please please please... have something to support your claim. You don't have any idea how much it takes to produce one album and be able to sell it well. But I guess $12 for a cd is way overpriced for everyone now.:rolleyes:
 
these music industry problems have been discussed to death, because theres no right or wrong answer here.

at least now, as an artist, we have options. we can get our music heard if we are not on a label, and if we want to just make money we can do that with a label.

90% of records might not make back the money it took to make them but whose problem is that? certainly not the consumers. Its not our problem if the record industry is pumping money into crap.

the record company has no business taking a cut of a product they had nothing to do with creating.
 
artists get a very good deal.

This article by producer Steve Albini helps to dispel that myth. It breaks down all expenses for a typical album deal. It's a great read but here's the bottom line:

"The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.

Record company: $ 710,000
Producer: $ 90,000
Manager: $ 51,000
Studio: $ 52,500
Previous label: $ 50,000
Agent: $ 7,500
Lawyer: $ 12,000
Band member net income each: $ 4,031.25

The band is now 1/4 of the way through its contract, has made the music industry more than 3 million dollars richer, but is in the hole $14,000 on royalties. "
 
WE'VE MADE A LOT OF DUMB MISTAKES IN THE PAST... slavery existed, women couldn't vote, teachers used to be able to slap students, we used to be able drive without seatbelts, the Flintstones cartoon used to advertise Kent cigarettes.
As a college professor the mistake was to do away with slapping students. Believe some really nead it.
 
Other labels???

NO way could it be 10 bucks per Zune. More like cents (like audio cassettes used to be) but then they will haver to give a cut to EVERY FRIGGEN LABEL. How does that work and why? The Labels make money when the songs sell. Bad precedent to give a cut of the hardware too.
 
"But I guess $12 for a cd is way overpriced for everyone now."

That would depend on one important thing: whether or not the majority of the songs on the CD are worth purchasing. If you like one track on a CD, it would be a waste of money to buy the entire thing for one song and be stuck with lots of crap on disc.
 
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