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Motorola 1.5GHz G4... G4 PowerBooks?
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The register's a good source for Intel and AMD roadmaps, but not so much for Apple news. I like the site, but I won't waste any time thinking about their "prediction", which I think is just speculation.
I think they did what any Apple speculator is doing now which is:
"Hmm... Apple PBG5 won't be ready for a while... but Steve did say it'll be ready this year... that must mean late summer or fall... but the PB hasn't been upgraded in a while... so I guess there will be another PBG4 rev before the PBG5... but not much because Apple never does a huge upgrade... so what's after 1.33... 1.42? Too little. 1.66? Too much. Howabout 1.5 Ghz?"
Not exactly a rumor, just an educated guess.
I think they did what any Apple speculator is doing now which is:
"Hmm... Apple PBG5 won't be ready for a while... but Steve did say it'll be ready this year... that must mean late summer or fall... but the PB hasn't been upgraded in a while... so I guess there will be another PBG4 rev before the PBG5... but not much because Apple never does a huge upgrade... so what's after 1.33... 1.42? Too little. 1.66? Too much. Howabout 1.5 Ghz?"
Not exactly a rumor, just an educated guess.
Originally posted by Westside guy
Given that I spent 9 months last year waiting for a 15" Powerbook upgrade that was "just a week or two away" based on "reports from reliable contacts" of the numerous Mac rumor sites...
I for one wouldn't slam the Reg's record too hard.
In any case this looks like last year all over again. There'll be rumors every week or two, everyone will chew them to death and spit them out, and the cycle will repeat endlessly.
Personally I doubt the G5 Powerbook will be a huge step above the G4s unless they can ramp up the clock speed significantly. I might be mistaken, but clock-for-clock it hasn't looked (to me) like the architecture makes that much difference; at least with the current apps.
Performance scaling is not 1:1 with clock scaling. So if there is a 1:1 performance increase with the G5 at a higher clock than it will do much better than a G4 at the same clock. I hope that makes sense. Internal clock frequency is only one part of the performance equation. FSB speed, functional units, simultaneous instructions, prediction accuracy, and others all contribute. The G5 has many other advances over the G4. So a 1.6MHz (800 FSB) G5 would always be more attractive than a 1.6MHz (200 FSB) G4.
It's not like Apple is going to delay G5 products just because the G4 gets a 12.5% speed bump.
I think this is excellent news. According to the G5 rumors and this, Apple will get better G4 and G5 processors in near future. I'm sure Apple with use this to give consumers a better product line all over, thereby increasing their market share, which in turn will make the platform more attractive to developers who will give us better software.
This is GREAT!
Oh and here is some info directly from motorola's site.
I think this is excellent news. According to the G5 rumors and this, Apple will get better G4 and G5 processors in near future. I'm sure Apple with use this to give consumers a better product line all over, thereby increasing their market share, which in turn will make the platform more attractive to developers who will give us better software.
This is GREAT!
Oh and here is some info directly from motorola's site.
Re: pb updates
It's a power and heat compromise. The last generation of Powerbooks were experiencing heat problems from the HD and interestingly not the processor. And Battery life is important to a Notebook user. Apple's Notebooks are quintessential notebooks in form and balanced performance. Only IBM's Notebooks excel similarly in design.
It's a power and heat compromise. The last generation of Powerbooks were experiencing heat problems from the HD and interestingly not the processor. And Battery life is important to a Notebook user. Apple's Notebooks are quintessential notebooks in form and balanced performance. Only IBM's Notebooks excel similarly in design.
"Overclocking"
Overclocking is defined as running a chip faster than the manufacturer has specified it for.
Motorola is a chip maker. When they update processors, make new revisions of them, and increase the clock speed, that is not overclocking. It may be milking the processor for all its worth, but it is not overclocking.
Overclocking would be taking that 1.5 ghz chip, soldering some resistors, and making it 1.6 ghz.
-Kevin
Overclocking is defined as running a chip faster than the manufacturer has specified it for.
Motorola is a chip maker. When they update processors, make new revisions of them, and increase the clock speed, that is not overclocking. It may be milking the processor for all its worth, but it is not overclocking.
Overclocking would be taking that 1.5 ghz chip, soldering some resistors, and making it 1.6 ghz.
-Kevin
Re: Re: pb updates
I don't think that's too huge of a problem. I put a Hitachi 7K60 (7200 rpm) drive in my PowerBook about 3-4 months ago. I have not noticed any difference in regards to either heat/fan, battery life, or noise over the stock drive. Great drive BTW, highly recommended, especially if you do portable video editing (if you get one for this, I recommend formatting it with a dedicated partition for media).
Until they can cool the G5 in a powerbook - you whiners will have to just deal with it. Just because you want it, doesn't mean it is possible right now.
I wonder how all of this will affect the imac line? we know apple keeps them below or even to powerbooks. does this mean the next imac will be 1.4 or 1.5 g4?
well, i waited and waited but could wait no longer since i figured it would be months before the g5 powerbook. anyway picked up this sweet 15" 1.25 G4 powerbook from apple refurb for $2100) - its really a fine machine - no complaints. have not felt it was too slow yet (be sure to add RAM tho).
bottom line. if you can wait - wait. if not - buy one and don't look back.
bottom line. if you can wait - wait. if not - buy one and don't look back.
Upgrade Vulture
I look at the possibility of a new generation of G4 laptops at SLIGHTLY higher specs as a GREAT thing. But that is because I am an "upgrade vulture."
I bought the Pismo 400 I am typing on now as brand new/open box from an online vendor once the G4 Ti's first came out. I think I paid about $1400 for it with a GB of RAM installed over two 1/2 years ago.
I bought a DP 1.25 PM G4 with 2 GB RAM right when the G5's came out.
Buying the last dying gasp of a product line from Apple is often a good bet. All of the design flaws have been worked out and reliability is top-notch. And you get GREAT bang for the buck. NO, you don't get the "mine is bigger than yours" bragging rights that the bleeding-edgers love so much, but you get a lot of work done for less money and less downtime.
As much as I love my Pismo, I do video production work and am looking towards perhaps acquiring a 17" sometime soon. Upgrades tend to depress the used market, so thanks to this new speed-bump it won't be long before I'll be able to snag a 1GHZ 17" w/2GB RAM for $1,500 or so. Then I'll bite and give the Pismo to my wife full-time.
My standards are different than many posting here: I ask questions like "what do I need it to do, and how fast do I need it to do it?" instead of "how much faster is it than Mr. Smith's next door?" or "how cool does it make me look when I whip this out?" or, worst yet "how many FPS will I get on my favorite waste-of-time-&-CPU game I love so much?"
But that's just me.
I look at the possibility of a new generation of G4 laptops at SLIGHTLY higher specs as a GREAT thing. But that is because I am an "upgrade vulture."
I bought the Pismo 400 I am typing on now as brand new/open box from an online vendor once the G4 Ti's first came out. I think I paid about $1400 for it with a GB of RAM installed over two 1/2 years ago.
I bought a DP 1.25 PM G4 with 2 GB RAM right when the G5's came out.
Buying the last dying gasp of a product line from Apple is often a good bet. All of the design flaws have been worked out and reliability is top-notch. And you get GREAT bang for the buck. NO, you don't get the "mine is bigger than yours" bragging rights that the bleeding-edgers love so much, but you get a lot of work done for less money and less downtime.
As much as I love my Pismo, I do video production work and am looking towards perhaps acquiring a 17" sometime soon. Upgrades tend to depress the used market, so thanks to this new speed-bump it won't be long before I'll be able to snag a 1GHZ 17" w/2GB RAM for $1,500 or so. Then I'll bite and give the Pismo to my wife full-time.
My standards are different than many posting here: I ask questions like "what do I need it to do, and how fast do I need it to do it?" instead of "how much faster is it than Mr. Smith's next door?" or "how cool does it make me look when I whip this out?" or, worst yet "how many FPS will I get on my favorite waste-of-time-&-CPU game I love so much?"
But that's just me.
"The 970FX, meanwhile, consumes a mere 12.3W at 1.4GHz, paving the way for PowerBook G5s. That figure is comparable to the 7.5W a 1GHz consumption of the G4-class Motorola MPC7447 that drives the current PowerBook G4s. The 970FX's SpeedStep-style PowerTune technology will help too."
quote from "the register" http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/35057.html
well, let's say the new G4 CPU's will be used in the ibook line while the G5 will be used in the new Powerbooks ... or am I just wishing that would happen...
quote from "the register" http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/35057.html
well, let's say the new G4 CPU's will be used in the ibook line while the G5 will be used in the new Powerbooks ... or am I just wishing that would happen...
sadly, this rumor is more realistic than others. i dont think we'll see a G5 powerbook until the last quarter of this year the earliest.
Cool, only 6 months for a 10% speed boost. Whoopee! They need to cut prices 30% across the line, give these a killer graphics card, fast huge HDs, and big L3 caches to make them less of the embarassing ripoffs that all the portables now are. $2000 for a 1 Ghz would have been ok in 2000, but not in 2004!
good point. Last Fall Apple said it would be a year or more till they could get a G5 into a portable. all of the stuff IMB is producing and releasing now has been roadmapped, they didn't discover these new 970 chips in their sock pile. They JUST got them in the Xserve, and if you have ever seen one of those up close you know they are thin, but they are deep. they are a lot bigger than a laptop. even scaling them down and everything, it will still be some time (i am guessing).
It seems reasonable to expect another G4 powerbook, or no revisions for a while. Then again the iBooks and iMacs both have pretty constrained cases too and they are still using G4 chips. I would guess they will be harder to do the eventual G5 upgrade than the eMac.
anyway, G5 powerbooks will be months and months away. look at what's fact and not just speculation mixed with dreaming. i would put some money on that. if Apple had a G5 powerbook ready for consumers, they would release it...... there are obviously factors holding it back beyond Steve Jobs trying to make you tense.
G4 PB update...
Threads like this are always an interesting read...as this is really an exchange of opinions, I'd like to posit a question...I know with the (relatively) recent introduction of the G5 PM line, that many software companies(ie Adobe) have been working on optimising their product(s) for G5s(if not done already)...since a PB is a 'professional' machine, and already at a disadvantage performance-wise to the PMs, I wonder if the logic IS there for a G5 PB instead of another G4 revision...the rationale being-if all the latest pro apps are optimised for G5, then it would make sense to put that chip in your portable professional line...and use the new G4 in the iBooks...any thoughts? Other than that, many good points have been brought up, but I ask, I know it is hard to wait, but everyone wants the (eventual) PB G5 to be a great machine, and greatness also cannot be rushed...if Apple came out with new PB G5s tommorow, people would rush out and buy them, then post complaints on how the keyboard melted, the battery exploded...how apple was irresponsible to put out such a machine...etc...you get the idea. I am as impatient as the next guy, and desparately need a powerful laptop to replace my pismo, but if I'm going to spend the cash, I want the product done right. In my opinion that will come in Jan 2005 (If earlier, fine, but then I can just wait for rev b...) Cheers
Threads like this are always an interesting read...as this is really an exchange of opinions, I'd like to posit a question...I know with the (relatively) recent introduction of the G5 PM line, that many software companies(ie Adobe) have been working on optimising their product(s) for G5s(if not done already)...since a PB is a 'professional' machine, and already at a disadvantage performance-wise to the PMs, I wonder if the logic IS there for a G5 PB instead of another G4 revision...the rationale being-if all the latest pro apps are optimised for G5, then it would make sense to put that chip in your portable professional line...and use the new G4 in the iBooks...any thoughts? Other than that, many good points have been brought up, but I ask, I know it is hard to wait, but everyone wants the (eventual) PB G5 to be a great machine, and greatness also cannot be rushed...if Apple came out with new PB G5s tommorow, people would rush out and buy them, then post complaints on how the keyboard melted, the battery exploded...how apple was irresponsible to put out such a machine...etc...you get the idea. I am as impatient as the next guy, and desparately need a powerful laptop to replace my pismo, but if I'm going to spend the cash, I want the product done right. In my opinion that will come in Jan 2005 (If earlier, fine, but then I can just wait for rev b...) Cheers
*yawns* With a 127Mhz system bus basically bottlenecking the CPU. So we are basically at the point where the PowerMac G4's where at pre-G5.
Thanks but I'm not going to piss my money away on something with lagging industry performance. OS X or no OS X the 17" PowerBook isn't worth 3 grand. Not against 1.7GHZ Pentium M systems. Screech all you want about people not needing that kind of performance. The fact of the matter is G5 users aren't complaining. And the fact of the matter is that bang for your buck wise a Pentium M based device is a better deal.
Frankly I'm not all that surprised by this announcement. Look at it this way. Jobs is not going to release a G5 PowerBook without a major announcement. This will be an event parallel to the transition from the G4 to the G5 for the PowerMac. You saw what a big deal Apple made out of that right? This is probably going to be a tide me over until WWDC where at minimum Apple may very well announce the 17" and a 15" G5 PowerBooks.
The thing I'm concerned with is the speed of these systems. Lets say Apple does indeed speedbump the PowerBooks to 1.5Ghz. A G5 is going to have to come in above that otherwise the perceived notion is going to be that its going to be as fast as a G5 so why bother. Like it or not the Mhz myth is alive and well. It won't matter if a G5 PowerBook kicks the snot out of a G4 at the same clock speed. Consumers, in general, are pretty stupid. They aren't tech geeks and as such trust numbers.
I knew going into Macworld in January was a long shot for G5 PowerBooks. I think there's going to be a 50/50% chance that WWDC may being G5 laptops to be released within the month. A 60%/40% chance of Jobs pulling another PowerMac and at the very least announcing the G5 PowerBooks for preorder with a shipping date by 3rd-4th quarter. Again, I'm not surprised by this. I am nevertheless disappointed.
Thanks but I'm not going to piss my money away on something with lagging industry performance. OS X or no OS X the 17" PowerBook isn't worth 3 grand. Not against 1.7GHZ Pentium M systems. Screech all you want about people not needing that kind of performance. The fact of the matter is G5 users aren't complaining. And the fact of the matter is that bang for your buck wise a Pentium M based device is a better deal.
Frankly I'm not all that surprised by this announcement. Look at it this way. Jobs is not going to release a G5 PowerBook without a major announcement. This will be an event parallel to the transition from the G4 to the G5 for the PowerMac. You saw what a big deal Apple made out of that right? This is probably going to be a tide me over until WWDC where at minimum Apple may very well announce the 17" and a 15" G5 PowerBooks.
The thing I'm concerned with is the speed of these systems. Lets say Apple does indeed speedbump the PowerBooks to 1.5Ghz. A G5 is going to have to come in above that otherwise the perceived notion is going to be that its going to be as fast as a G5 so why bother. Like it or not the Mhz myth is alive and well. It won't matter if a G5 PowerBook kicks the snot out of a G4 at the same clock speed. Consumers, in general, are pretty stupid. They aren't tech geeks and as such trust numbers.
I knew going into Macworld in January was a long shot for G5 PowerBooks. I think there's going to be a 50/50% chance that WWDC may being G5 laptops to be released within the month. A 60%/40% chance of Jobs pulling another PowerMac and at the very least announcing the G5 PowerBooks for preorder with a shipping date by 3rd-4th quarter. Again, I'm not surprised by this. I am nevertheless disappointed.
Re: Re: Motorola 1.5GHz G4... G4 PowerBooks?
I had several friends betting on the G5 rumor for PowerBooks...
Arg... Apple...
If this is true...
Update everything, make it a much better deal then the current ones.
Come on, really.
I had several friends betting on the G5 rumor for PowerBooks...
Arg... Apple...
If this is true...
Update everything, make it a much better deal then the current ones.
Come on, really.
Re: "Overclocking"
Thank you!!!! The whole time I've been reading this thread I was just dying for someone to point that fact out!
Motoroloa/Apple have no need to "overclock" their chips, because they are in control of their manufacture. When someone says they are "overclocking" they are either raising the processor's clock multiplier or FSB from the standard factory setting. However, if you are the factory, you can simply up the hardwired multiplier or FSB numbers yourself, and the chip will run as such.
Processors are not manufactured from the outset to run at a predefined speed. i.e. IBM doesn't say "Ok, now we will make a batch of 1.8GHz chips". They all come from the same die and each tested to see what specs they conform to. One might be stable at up to 1920Mhz, so it becomes a 1.8Ghz chip. Another might be 2080MHz, so it becomes a 2.0GHz chip.
It is also possible that all the processors manufactured are stable at 2Ghz, but are still "underclocked" to 1.6 or 1.8. This is because Apple (and all manufacturers) expect you to pay a premium for their top of the line computer. While in reality, it costs them no more to make a 1.6GHz G5 than it does a 2GHz G5. This is just the way it is.
So, in conclusion, if Motorola has refined the process somewhat where they can now consistently make processors that run at 1.5GHz - THEY ARE 1.5GHz PROCESORS - NOT 1.42GHz OVERCLOCKED!!!!!!!!!! IF A PROCESSOR CAN RUN STABLE AT A CERTAIN SPEED...IT IS THAT SPEED!
Thank You.
</rant>
Thank you!!!! The whole time I've been reading this thread I was just dying for someone to point that fact out!
Motoroloa/Apple have no need to "overclock" their chips, because they are in control of their manufacture. When someone says they are "overclocking" they are either raising the processor's clock multiplier or FSB from the standard factory setting. However, if you are the factory, you can simply up the hardwired multiplier or FSB numbers yourself, and the chip will run as such.
Processors are not manufactured from the outset to run at a predefined speed. i.e. IBM doesn't say "Ok, now we will make a batch of 1.8GHz chips". They all come from the same die and each tested to see what specs they conform to. One might be stable at up to 1920Mhz, so it becomes a 1.8Ghz chip. Another might be 2080MHz, so it becomes a 2.0GHz chip.
It is also possible that all the processors manufactured are stable at 2Ghz, but are still "underclocked" to 1.6 or 1.8. This is because Apple (and all manufacturers) expect you to pay a premium for their top of the line computer. While in reality, it costs them no more to make a 1.6GHz G5 than it does a 2GHz G5. This is just the way it is.
So, in conclusion, if Motorola has refined the process somewhat where they can now consistently make processors that run at 1.5GHz - THEY ARE 1.5GHz PROCESORS - NOT 1.42GHz OVERCLOCKED!!!!!!!!!! IF A PROCESSOR CAN RUN STABLE AT A CERTAIN SPEED...IT IS THAT SPEED!
Thank You.
</rant>
Interesting article today on CNET
This article was just released on CNET.com. They're claiming that there is a strong possibility that Apple will not use Moto's new G4, and that the G5 could surface in the PB by August:
"However, analysts say that now that IBM has moved the G5 line to its 90-nanometer manufacturing process, a G5 PowerBook should not be far off."
Check out the full article at the link below and let me know your thoughts:
http://news.com.com/2100-1044-5163527.html
This article was just released on CNET.com. They're claiming that there is a strong possibility that Apple will not use Moto's new G4, and that the G5 could surface in the PB by August:
"However, analysts say that now that IBM has moved the G5 line to its 90-nanometer manufacturing process, a G5 PowerBook should not be far off."
Check out the full article at the link below and let me know your thoughts:
http://news.com.com/2100-1044-5163527.html
Being one of these professionals, I can tell you that using a powerbook as your primary machine is stupid.
Laptops are great for portability, and taking your work with you, especially when you are a graphic designer. HOWEVER, they are NOT desktop replacements for people in the animation/film world. No laptop will do what a desktop will do when it comes to rendering, editing, and animating.
When the G5 Powerbook comes out NEXT MWSF, it will be a good thing. But in the meantime, the G4s are perfect.
Re: Interesting article today on CNET
Very interesting article, but I doubt that the analysts really know something. They are just guessing as we are.
Very interesting article, but I doubt that the analysts really know something. They are just guessing as we are.