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dongmin

macrumors 68000
Jan 3, 2002
1,709
5
Originally posted by a17inchFuture
9 months to a year when they already have the chip (aka the BIG thing that was holding up the G5 powerbooks)?
I think the 970fx is a big piece, but certainly not the only piece of the puzzle. Other components of the G5 motherboard (controller, memory, etc.) have to be heat-controlled as well, from the looks of the Power Mac. It could also be that Apple hs designed the new PB around a brand spanking new technology, like fuel cells, that is holding it back.
 

cr2sh

macrumors 68030
May 28, 2002
2,554
3
downtown
The last revision of the g4 powerbook will be an impressive one, I have no doubt. Apple will give us a reason to buy them.. maybe the cpu isn't the one we're wanting, but they'll pimp it out with enough goodies and such we'll all but forget the g5.

A low price... well, not LOW... but yeh, let's remember that the last revision of the PowerMac g4 was the lowest priced PowerMac ever. It included the first FW800 as well as internal blue-tooth and airport extreme. It was bascially a g5 without the chip (okay that's a far stretch) but the point is... I see this as an exciting chance to get a REALLY great powerbook for cheap.
 

whocares

macrumors 65816
Oct 9, 2002
1,494
0
:noitаɔo˩
Originally posted by Naimfan

(...)

The only concern I would have is that Apple would continue to support the G4--I've seen statements that new apps like iDVD and Garageband either won't work on a G3 or, if they do, very sluggishly. I think that is a portent of things to come--and to be frank I can't blame Apple at all for it.

(...)

One of the best points made so far IMHO.

I have a G3 and can relate to this :(
 

Snowy_River

macrumors 68030
Jul 17, 2002
2,520
0
Corvallis, OR
Originally posted by KLFloyd
I'm in a position where I'm going to HAVE to buy a new 12" laptop sometime in the next 6-8 months. I'm starting grad school in August and my 15" PB is on it's last legs. I'm probably not going to have the $ to buy a G5 if they come out in that time frame, but maybe I can get a G4 on close out?

Whatever happens, I hope it happens fast.


You 15" is on its last legs?! I started grad school running a PB3400. It wasn't until several months into school that I finally upgraded to a more recent machine. At that point, my 3400 was about 4.5 years old. Even if your PB is a first gen, it's only about 3 years old at this point.

For the record, my 3400 is still a great little work horse (at almost 7 years old now). I use it sometimes for certain applications, and I have it running as a list-serv.
 

CmdrLaForge

macrumors 601
Feb 26, 2003
4,633
3,112
around the world
Guys,

just stay cool. The article on Appleinsiders says:
______________________________
1.42GHz samples of the 7447A chip are shipping in quantities to "selected customers" for $245 a go, in batches of 10,000 CPUs, according to the article. The chip is expected in production quantities sometime in the next 3 to 6 months.
______________________________

Production qtys in 3 to 6 month ! Thats much too long to be used in upgraded PB. I guess they are only interesting for the eMac and the iBook. But not for the PB. The PB needs and update much sooner.
 

Snowy_River

macrumors 68030
Jul 17, 2002
2,520
0
Corvallis, OR
Originally posted by andyduncan
6 months, 90 Mhz, 2 watts...

Uh... shouldn't that be 170MHz? This would be a step from 1.33GHz to 1.5GHz. The 1.42GHz (which, by the way, is 80MHz less than 1.5GHz, not 90MHz) has never been in a PowerBook.

This would be a 12.5% speed boost, which, I'd say, isn't something to turn our noses up at while we wait for the PB G5s. Yes, I'm waiting for the G5s, too, but I don't think that we should be decrying Apple's keeping the PB line as fast as possible before they are able to put out the PB G5.

(And, please, no conspiracy theories about Apple choosing not to put out the PB G5 as fast as they can...:rolleyes: )
 

arn

macrumors god
Staff member
Apr 9, 2001
16,363
5,795
Originally posted by CmdrLaForge
Guys,

just stay cool. The article on Appleinsiders says:

they are just referencing the same Register article.

arn
 

iPC

macrumors 6502
Jul 22, 2003
384
0
East Windsor, CT
Originally posted by Snowy_River
You 15" is on its last legs?! I started grad school running a PB3400. It wasn't until several months into school that I finally upgraded to a more recent machine. At that point, my 3400 was about 4.5 years old. Even if your PB is a first gen, it's only about 3 years old at this point.

For the record, my 3400 is still a great little work horse (at almost 7 years old now). I use it sometimes for certain applications, and I have it running as a list-serv.
You are using logic in this forum? Are you nuts?!? ;)

I have to admit, my P3 laptop from 1999 is no less usefull than my G3 800 iBook from 2003. They do the same basic thing (aside from what OS they run) for me.

Although I am saddened that my iBook is junk for something like Q3A... oh well. :(

My guess for the PB is 1 G4 related update (minimum) before the G5. I would guess that the form factor will be updated/changed for the G5, if for nothing else but ease of marketing. Nothing until 2005, if I was a betting person.

We shall see I suppose.
 

Snowy_River

macrumors 68030
Jul 17, 2002
2,520
0
Corvallis, OR
Re: this will fill the gap

Originally posted by groov'
Buy this offer for 1299 euros (19% tax included) if you live in Europe and it will ease the waiting for the G5 PB.

Can't beat it...


Specifications: (sorry, it's dutch but simple to understand I guess?
_______________ ______________________________________
- Processor ....

I'd sooner go back to my PB3400 while waiting for the PB G5... ;)
 

CmdrLaForge

macrumors 601
Feb 26, 2003
4,633
3,112
around the world
Originally posted by arn
they are just referencing the same Register article.

arn

Ooopps I see. But then again. These chips will not be used in PB released in March.

That means - either there are no updates in march but in 3-6 month from now and the updates then will have the G4 :mad: what I can't believe.

Either we see now new PB with G4 or never

well just my 2 cents
 

Snowy_River

macrumors 68030
Jul 17, 2002
2,520
0
Corvallis, OR
Originally posted by greenstork
.... in reality, you have no idea. None of us do....

Ha ha! A voice of reason! I'm often astonished by the level of certainty thrown around on these boards. Whenever talking about rumors, I freely admit that I know nothing, and I'm just guessing.

Peace! :D
 

a17inchFuture

macrumors regular
Feb 6, 2004
195
0
Miami
Originally posted by greenstork
Hope you're not too attached to that left testicle. You state all your points with such confidence, but in reality, you have no idea. None of us do.

I believe the next Powerbook revision will include a ramped up G3 with AltiVec, but I'm not betting any testicles on it.

edit: Also, I'm sorry to say that you don't really understand the meaning of overclocked. A chip, when it is produced, is tested and rated at a certain speed. Newer chips commonly don't have all the kinks worked out in the production process and are rated accordingly. As the production line matures, small improvements are made and the results are chips classified to run at a higher speed. So while you think it is overclocked, you're wrong. Just because it keeps getting hotter and hotter doesn't mean it's overclocked, it just means it's rated higher. It may just be that it was poorly designed to begin with but I just don't know enough to say.

Wow, you've hit upon the point that you should have thought of before that original poster posted the first time: "NONE OF US KNOW!" While he claimed his beliefs to be fact, I attempted to back mine up and gave evidence for what I believed. And I never claimed that it was anything more than a belief.

Also, yes, I am pretty attached to my leftie, but more importantly, everyone who reads these boards regularly (which I do) has said the same thing several thousands of times( about the overclocked, not the leftie), and more to the point, regardless of the techincal definition of "overclocked", of which you are so certain, what i meant is exactly what you said. They use more power and produce more heat. And most on the board who read the words "overclocked" virtually think of that word as having the same definition you've just given.

As far as whether or not the chips are graded at 1.5, I am merely echoing thousands of posters comments. More importantly, we have had much evidence that the G4's have reached their peaks, and that they were possibly going to "overclock" (try not to have a conniption [if you need a clue on the word "conniption", too, try dictionary.com]) them in the next rev.. So where is the contrary evidence? From a register rumor that is probably just copying the ever-fallible MOSR.com?

Finally, while I may have used teh word testicle in my post, it is not uncivil, nor is it explicit. Its a part of the human anatomy. And beyond that, the only offensive part of my post would have been "I think you are wrong" which, last I checked, is a disagreement, not being uncivil. I was merely attempting to assert confidence in my beliefs on the subject.
 

Bilba

macrumors member
Feb 2, 2004
77
0
While I am sure that my post will rage others, this is my take on the issue.

I would like (let me rephraze: LOVE) for Apple to come out tomorrow (or next week) with a beefed up 1.42/1.53 G4 version of the pbook.

Such a powerbook, with a fast HD, 1x512MB memory chip, and better Superdrive will be more than enough for me to order it the day it is annonced. The current pbook is great as is, the only problem with it is that you pay the same price for a 6-months old product.

Beside I would prefer (spam me if you want) to pay ~2000$ for such a machine, rather than ~3000$ for a first generation G5 pbook. The new powerbook will be an amazing piece of machine, and it will keep me more than satisfied until the second revision of a G5 powerbook comes out.

Ohh and yes, I would also have a new laptop next week rather than keep on posting stupid posts for 5 more months about when is the G5 powerbook is going to be out.

P.S
Since I am probably not the only one that thinks that, Apple will probably experience nice increase in sales for the (hopefully) final revision of G4 powerbooks. Furthermore, since Apple probably knows that, there is no reason for them to dump G4 from the pbook. And to all of you who are about to post "G5 powerbook will sell even better." My answer to you is that the G5 powerbook will sell very well even if they are annonced in 6 more months, and it will probably be a better product at that point.

peace.
 

actionslacks

macrumors regular
Jul 25, 2003
129
0
LA
IBOOKS PEOPLE

Whether or not Apple uses these chips in the Powerbooks is pure speculation.

A lot of you are missing the point. IBooks still need an update. Where do you think the iBooks will go if there are no new G4 chips?

iBooks just received G4s. There needs to be some processor roadmap for the iBook unless it is either going to stagnate or be discontinued all together.
 

CmdrLaForge

macrumors 601
Feb 26, 2003
4,633
3,112
around the world
Originally posted by Bilba


Beside I would prefer (spam me if you want) to pay ~2000$ for such a machine, rather than ~3000$ for a first generation G5 pbook. The new powerbook will be an amazing piece of machine, and it will keep me more than satisfied until the second revision of a G5 powerbook comes out.
peace.

Peace too. I really don't hope that Apple will increase the price on the PB just because they managed to get the G5 in ! I hope the price stays the same as it is.
 

HiRez

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
6,250
2,576
Western US
Originally posted by Naimfan
While I'd obviously prefer a G5, an upgraded G4, especially if it has a real performance boost (as opposed to a "cosmetic" boost in GHz rating), would be OK. Not great, but OK.
The thought of a new barely-faster G4 PowerBook makes me yawn, and certainly won't make me drop three grand to replace my trusty old 800 MHz G4 PB. But what probably would get me to jump is a dual-G4 PowerBook. They were rumored to be working on these a few years ago, and heat and wattage-wise it should certainly be doable in the 17" (15" tricky, 12" no way). Most people who need the fastest PowerBooks are creative professionals who could take serious advantage of dual CPUs for things like Maya, Cinema4D, Photoshop, After Effects, Final Cut Pro, and Xcode (and of course Quake). Now the battery life in such a beast would be terrible, but you could opt to run on only one of the CPUs while unplugged to extend that. Personally, I'd be willing to trade a bit more thickness on the 17" model for improved battery life. The thing is so long and deep anyway, it doesn't need to be that thin. A dual-G4 PowerBook is unlikely to happen, but for me that would be the only credible stopgap to a G5 PowerBook.
 

wizard

macrumors 68040
May 29, 2003
3,854
571
The Powetune 970's still have the issue of using excessive power. Its not just the processor but the whole package that can kill a notebook design.

The other issue is that at 1.5 GHz the 970's won't perform better either, so performance wise it is a wash. The article also points out htat this processor does have new power management capabilities. So it appears that there is more to the processor than fabrication imporvements.

AS much as I hate to say this, Apples involment with IBM must be balanced against alternative suppliers. It is in Apples best interest to keep Motorola on board for as long as possible to avoid being at the mercy of IBM.

Dave


Originally posted by chazmox
With the powertune 970's shipping, I don't see the justification of going to another rev. from Motorola. The G4's cost more, don't perform better, and powertune adds the true power scalability.
 

CmdrLaForge

macrumors 601
Feb 26, 2003
4,633
3,112
around the world
Re: IBOOKS PEOPLE

Originally posted by actionslacks
Whether or not Apple uses these chips in the Powerbooks is pure speculation.

A lot of you are missing the point. IBooks still need an update. Where do you think the iBooks will go if there are no new G4 chips?

iBooks just received G4s. There needs to be some processor roadmap for the iBook unless it is either going to stagnate or be discontinued all together.

Exactly, and thats what I tried to point out as well.

PB should be updated in March and then again in September. Now I don't see the G5 but I hope for it in September. But iBooks should be updated in late April or May. That fits perfectly in the mentioned timeframe.
 

a17inchFuture

macrumors regular
Feb 6, 2004
195
0
Miami
I am in a similar situation, where I am going to be faced with a difficult decision if they update g4's first. I am a student at the moment, but will graduate in may, and I was looking forward to using the edu discount toward a 17 inch pb (see my user name), and if they come out with a new g4 line, I am sure g5's wont be anyitme soon enough for me.

Therefore, since I have a decently usable comp at the moment (teh top of the line of the very first line of g4 towers[which only works when opened with side panel laying on teh ground]), should I wait and pay more in teh future, or pay less and get teh next g4 rev pb instead of a g5 pb?

Ahhh, the mind boggles . . . .

Any advice?

P.s. I think the 'rents will pay for the comp either way as a grad gift, but i woudl like them to pay less if possible.
 

a17inchFuture

macrumors regular
Feb 6, 2004
195
0
Miami
Originally posted by wizard
The Powetune 970's still have the issue of using excessive power. Its not just the processor but the whole package that can kill a notebook design.

The other issue is that at 1.5 GHz the 970's won't perform better either, so performance wise it is a wash. The article also points out htat this processor does have new power management capabilities. So it appears that there is more to the processor than fabrication imporvements.

AS much as I hate to say this, Apples involment with IBM must be balanced against alternative suppliers. It is in Apples best interest to keep Motorola on board for as long as possible to avoid being at the mercy of IBM.

Dave

Where are you getting the "excessive power" bits of info from?

Also, as far as being at the mercy of IBM, they are not nerely at their mercy yet, and the pwoerbooks are evidently at the mercy of motorola, whose hands seem alot less capable than the hands of IBM to me.
 

jouster

macrumors 65816
Jan 21, 2002
1,469
621
Connecticut
Originally posted by Bear
On the article itself, I have no opinion.

your overclokcing comment, why do you and a whole hoard of other people insist that all the Motorola G4s above 1GHz are overclocked?

And, furthermore, so what if they are? They still run at 1.42Ghz. Yesterday's overclocking is just today's standard.
 

Westside guy

macrumors 603
Oct 15, 2003
6,340
4,158
The soggy side of the Pacific NW
Originally posted by dxp4acu
show me one article where the register has gotten something right between apple and motorola. I don't think one exists...

Given that I spent 9 months last year waiting for a 15" Powerbook upgrade that was "just a week or two away" based on "reports from reliable contacts" of the numerous Mac rumor sites...

I for one wouldn't slam the Reg's record too hard. :)

In any case this looks like last year all over again. There'll be rumors every week or two, everyone will chew them to death and spit them out, and the cycle will repeat endlessly.

Personally I doubt the G5 Powerbook will be a huge step above the G4s unless they can ramp up the clock speed significantly. I might be mistaken, but clock-for-clock it hasn't looked (to me) like the architecture makes that much difference; at least with the current apps.
 

stingerman

macrumors 6502
Jul 6, 2003
286
0
The 970FX still has better thermal and power characteristics over the 7447A. Too little too late and still overpriced, the 7447A will probably not show up in Apple's line unless it drops below $100.
 

bankshot

macrumors 65816
Jan 23, 2003
1,367
416
Southern California
Originally posted by a17inchFuture
9 months to a year when they already have the chip (aka the BIG thing that was holding up the G5 powerbooks)? Are you crazy?

I must be crazy too, since I agree with that speculation (9 months to a year). :rolleyes: As others have pointed out, it's all speculation, unless some of us work at Apple in the PowerBook hardware group.

I'd guess that while the Powertune G5 was one of the big things needed for a PowerBook G5, it's probably not the only thing. What about the system bus that runs at half of processor clock speed? Current PowerBooks run at 167 MHz. To go to even a 1.5 GHz G5, that's a big jump to 750 MHz bus. To say nothing of a 2 GHz PowerBook. Who's to say, other than the engineers at Apple, that this isn't a tough problem? How much power would that motherboard use, and how much heat would it dissipate? How hard is it to fit into the relatively tiny package of a PowerBook?

I'm guessing that these issues are just as important as the CPU itself, in terms of mass producing a working G5 PowerBook at a reasonable price. But then I know nothing, and could be all wrong. Heck I'd love to be wrong and see G5 PowerBooks next month. But my money's on no earlier than November. Quite possibly not until MWSF '05 or shortly thereafter.
 

andyduncan

macrumors regular
Jan 21, 2003
172
0
Originally posted by invaLPsion
In addition, I believe that we may not only see 1.5Ghz, but 1.533 GHz. That's a 200 mhz update. That is based on sources from MacOSRumors that predict a G4 update to the powerbooks within the next few weeks.

The fact that you are quoting pothead Meader as a source completely undermines your credibility.

god I miss macosrumors.net, those guys were priceless
 
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