Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
It's about code execution outside of Apple's control. If a developer is permitted to execute any code they want, we're going to see a lot of abuse and potential device compromises.

I suspect this might be why BrowserEngineKit will be limited to iPhone... because it's Version 1.0, and they want to limit the scope of any such abuse, bugs, and user confusion.
If that is truly the case which I doubt then Apple has some larger issues in the OS it claims that is so secure. At its core iOS is unix which is a fairly secure OS in how it can sand box most things and prevent leaving the sandbox.
Apple is doing malous compliances and everyone knows it.
 
Whilst you have a point - if you can’t see that this is apples doing then I’m afraid you’re being somewhat shortsighted.
This is 100% Apple’s doing, based on what the DMA requires. Just like with GDPR, they defined a regulation with a naive idea about how it would play out. Do they even engage anyone in the tech sphere?

So, this will be life for folks in the EU. I’m sure placating the infinitesimal number of folks that will ever use a different browser and ever sideload anything will be worth it for the headaches users and developers are going to have.
 
On this one, I'm with Mozilla. I'd love to be able to use Firefox with ublock origin to filter content. Safari doesn't work right with some sites, and the plugin support is laughable.

Now that said, I'd love to see Apple say, "Sure, you can use whatever rendering engine you want, but you can't have any - literally any - telemetry coming out of the browser (looking at you chrome) or harvest customer data for things like edge's shopping 'feature'" Take that google/microsoft.
 
Will be interesting to see what happens, the EU doesn’t take kindly to being taken the micky off, but Apple may have done a deal with them to have this approved. We shall see. But if they upset devs too much then they may find some well known apps leaving their platform and Apple having to explain to its customer base why, and that is far far worst then anything the EU can do, a damaged reputation takes a very long time to repair.
 
  • Like
Reactions: arkitect
Which makes one wonder, of ALL the countries to enact something so draconian (we’re going to fine you not based on what you make IN the region, but based on what you make WORLDWIDE), why was it the EU? What makes the EU more power hungry in this area than China which has a similar iPhone market percentage (20-30%) but, even knowing all of the things they’re known for, they still didn’t go as far as the EU?
Because all these companies have a stranglehold that can’t be broken - they stifle and lock in and steal data and suffocate everything around them until it’s just them standing. (perhaps Apple least of all, but they still do)

The last thing any of the big ones want is to lose this power. Even the eu fines are nothing to them, but at least it is a start. They need to be absolutely reined in. The eu is the only block with the balls to attempt it.
 
No, it includes any operating systems or devices. The deciding factor is how many EU citizens are affected. So it may depend on whether you see iOS and iPadOS as basically the same or as two different operating systems.
oooooh i'd assumed that was the reason. numbers huh, that seems like a weird metric when they could have just said market share
 
This is 100% Apple’s doing, based on what the DMA requires. Just like with GDPR, they defined a regulation with a naive idea about how it would play out. Do they even engage anyone in the tech sphere?

So, this will be life for folks in the EU. I’m sure placating the infinitesimal number of folks that will ever use a different browser and ever sideload anything will be worth it for the headaches users and developers are going to have.
Yeah, that’s what I mean - Apple are purposely ruining the experience for their customers because they’re annoyed at the eu. That’s not ok though. Is it?
 
Why are browsers required to run on the WebKit engine in the first place? WebKit limits Firefox so much that you can't use a ad blocker, it's just safari reskins at that point.
thats the point. its 0 competition to apples stuff
 
oooooh i'd assumed that was the reason. numbers huh, that seems like a weird metric when they could have just said market share
Market share wouldn’t be appropriate when the market is small. This is really about how much control a single company may have over how a substantial portion of EU citizens use important services. Big Tech has grown too big and powerful, building a moat that makes it impossible for new companies to compete with them, and since they don’t want to play nice, they need to be reined in by regulation.
 
Which makes one wonder, of ALL the countries to enact something so draconian (we’re going to fine you not based on what you make IN the region, but based on what you make WORLDWIDE), why was it the EU? What makes the EU more power hungry in this area than China which has a similar iPhone market percentage (20-30%) but, even knowing all of the things they’re known for, they still didn’t go as far as the EU?
Maybe they are preoccupied and haven’t bothered about that yet. Or maybe Android in China is way more popular so customers care less about App Store rules. Maybe Apple has implemented enough exceptions to their rules so that sweeping changes like this is not their priority. Last time I check, Android has 77% marketshare compared to Apple’s 22%, all within a single country, which is roughly the same scale as EU.
 
  • Like
Reactions: arkitect
Because all these companies have a stranglehold that can’t be broken - they stifle and lock in and steal data and suffocate everything around them until it’s just them standing. (perhaps Apple least of all, but they still do)

The last thing any of the big ones want is to lose this power. Even the eu fines are nothing to them, but at least it is a start. They need to be absolutely reined in. The eu is the only block with the balls to attempt it.
At one point, Nokia had a stranglehold that couldn’t be broken. Fortunately, one company ignored that outlook and took a relatively huge risk to make something different. Heck, MySpace had a stranglehold that couldn’t be broken, and they were followed by a laundry list of other companies, all that had a stranglehold that couldn’t be broken. And inevitably, was broken.

It can be broken, but the way it’s broken is for a company to make an attempt to break it. All the EU is doing is effectively making Apple’s iOS and Google’s Android the official OS’s of the government. My guess is they think it’s a “pretty good idea” for now, but we’ll see!
 
Yeah, that’s what I mean - Apple are purposely ruining the experience for their customers because they’re annoyed at the eu. That’s not ok though. Is it?
If the DMA didn’t exist, none of this would be happening. Apple didn’t make the change “just ‘cause they wanted to.” If someone’s holding a rope that’s keeping a weight off my head and I say, “Stop everything you’re doing and get over here”, I mean, I asked for it. :)
 
At one point, Nokia had a stranglehold that couldn’t be broken. Fortunately, one company ignored that outlook and took a relatively huge risk to make something different. Heck, MySpace had a stranglehold that couldn’t be broken, and they were followed by a laundry list of other companies, all that had a stranglehold that couldn’t be broken. And inevitably, was broken.

It can be broken, but the way it’s broken is for a company to make an attempt to break it. All the EU is doing is effectively making Apple’s iOS and Google’s Android the official OS’s of the government. My guess is they think it’s a “pretty good idea” for now, but we’ll see!
We will see indeed. The way Apple are behaving though, they’ll break it all by themselves. Of all the companies to pull off an elegant solution to an imposed problem, one would think one could rely on Apple. They can pull some amazing things out of the bag. So far though (and only a day in mind) they’re absolutely butchering it.
 
Which makes one wonder, of ALL the countries to enact something so draconian (we’re going to fine you not based on what you make IN the region, but based on what you make WORLDWIDE), why was it the EU? What makes the EU more power hungry in this area than China which has a similar iPhone market percentage (20-30%) but, even knowing all of the things they’re known for, they still didn’t go as far as the EU?
Not power-hungry, but concerned about how big-tech companies have grown to control important parts of EU citizens’ lives. My guess for why the EU is the first is that it’s a cultural after-effect of Europe being the cradle of Enlightenment, combined with the fact that it is less capitalistically and more socialistically oriented than the US.
 
Maybe they are preoccupied and haven’t bothered about that yet. Or maybe Android in China is way more popular so customers care less about App Store rules. Maybe Apple has implemented enough exceptions to their rules so that sweeping changes like this is not their priority. Last time I check, Android has 77% marketshare compared to Apple’s 22%, all within a single country, which is roughly the same scale as EU.
If that was the case, though, that would just mean that the negotiators in the EU aren’t able to get the same exceptions to Apple’s rules that China got. So the EU tried and failed where China succeeded?
 
We will see indeed. The way Apple are behaving though, they’ll break it all by themselves. Of all the companies to pull off an elegant solution to an imposed problem, one would think one could rely on Apple. They can pull some amazing things out of the bag. So far though (and only a day in mind) they’re absolutely butchering it.
Hey, maybe this will be the thing that pushes the EU to actually increase compet… naaaah.
 
One idea might be to simply ignore the restriction that Apple continues to enforce on the iPad and then see what happens. There is a high probability that the EU will intervene and then you have the chance to sue Apple for damages.
 
Not power-hungry, but concerned about how big-tech companies have grown to control important parts of EU citizens’ lives. My guess for why the EU is the first is that it’s a cultural after-effect of Europe being the cradle of Enlightenment, combined with the fact that it is less capitalistically and more socialistically oriented than the US.
That’s AFTER just sitting back and watching it happen, though. And, if they were THAT concerned, wouldn’t the better solution to be to design a EU centric phone that could be subsidized by the government that would become the defacto market leader in the region? OR, limit the import of things like the iPhone? If they don’t allow iPhones in the region, then they Apple would have no hope of controlling ANY parts of EU citizens lives. What they’re ACTUALLY doing is trying to make the iPhone more desirable to EU citizens. Which seems contrary to the idea that they’re so very concerned about people using these devices.
 
Why are browsers required to run on the WebKit engine in the first place? WebKit limits Firefox so much that you can't use a ad blocker, it's just safari reskins at that point.

Because Apple wants it that way and it's their operating system.

I support this because it keeps website supporting Safari which is important for me since I use Safari on the Mac also.
 
If that was the case, though, that would just mean that the negotiators in the EU aren’t able to get the same exceptions to Apple’s rules that China got. So the EU tried and failed where China succeeded?
It could also be that what EU cares about are different. For example, to appease Chinese government, all Apple needs to do is bend their rules to let WeChat works “as intended by them”, alongside selected apps and categories. Apple needs those 20% revenue more than China needs Apple, so they comply.

EU OTOH, does not have such “mega app” Apple can tailor to, and much of what they use have global presence elsewhere. So instead of trying to tailor to what EU needs, they decide to go one step further and define “gatekeeper”, Among other things. If there is a similar “mega app” every EU citizen uses, things could be different.
 
That’s AFTER just sitting back and watching it happen, though. And, if they were THAT concerned, wouldn’t the better solution to be to design a EU centric phone that could be subsidized by the government that would become the defacto market leader in the region? OR, limit the import of things like the iPhone? If they don’t allow iPhones in the region, then they Apple would have no hope of controlling ANY parts of EU citizens lives. What they’re ACTUALLY doing is trying to make the iPhone more desirable to EU citizens. Which seems contrary to the idea that they’re so very concerned about people using these devices.
They’re not trying to limit people using these devices. Have you go the wrong idea? They’re trying to open up the ecosystems and hardware to competition, to level the playing field, to give EU and other countries startups more of a chance. In software, hardware and the utility of the already existing ecosystems to the same level as the ‘gatekeepers’ themselves.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.