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They're *way* worse than Microsoft was - they're significantly more creative than MS was back then.

It's also the ultimate in hypocrisy for a corporate that's made virtue signalling a core part of its brand. It bends over backwards for China, but the EU which actually has laws to enforce what Apple has regularly virtue signalled for decades? Nope, go eff yourself.

I do hope we can rein Apple in to a significantly more cooperative entity like Microsoft (even now they're still looking over their shoulder) but I think it might be too late.
Yeah they really reeled in MS they are the dominant computer OS. And let’s give Google way more access to users with Chrome. You are allowing other companies to expand more. And none of them are small companies.
 
Ugh ..

C'mon Apple

What a crock

iPhone, but not iPad?

I'm so sick of Apple's games

The iPad OS wasn't designated a gatekeeper by EU.

You see, the EU only cares enough about this stuff if it's done by large companies and software/service which has a lot of users.

It's not a principled move. Anyone is free to what Apple did as long as they stay under 40 million active users, have less than €7 billion in EU revenue and their market cap is below €75 billions.
 
Is it just me or does the whole thing take away their buzz from the Vision Pro?

The Vision Pro is releasing the US. The only people in the US that even know about this read The Verge or macRumors... And then the % of people who care about the rendering engine in the mobile browser...

Pretty sure the Vision Pro hype is unaffected.
 
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They’re not trying to limit people using these devices. Have you go the wrong idea? They’re trying to open up the ecosystems and hardware to competition, to level the playing field, to give EU and other countries startups more of a chance.
It’s not Apples job to give more companies or countries a chance. Effectively governments are regulating companies to give their own companies a chance. Rather than letting the try to compete.
 
If Apple were *motivated* to support more app stores and browser engines, they could figure out an elegant way to do so whilst remaining competitive. If this EU system seems clunky and disjointed, know that it's because Apple have intentionally made it so.

Apple doesn't want these changes. They are being forced by law in the EU. Apple is following the laws in the markets they operate even if they disagree with them.

The DMA only cares about this behavoir when it's done by very large companies and the software/services has more than 40 million users.

The EU is fine with Apple's behavoir as long as you just a billion dollar/euro company.
 
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That’s AFTER just sitting back and watching it happen, though.
The EU commission isn’t a single person, and there are 27 countries involved. It takes time to find a consensus that (a) something needs to be done and then (b) what exactly should be done. Smartphones only became ubiquitous within the past decade.

And, if they were THAT concerned, wouldn’t the better solution to be to design a EU centric phone that could be subsidized by the government that would become the defacto market leader in the region?
Design by committee rarely yields good results. And it would create a monopoly, which is the opposite of what the EU wants.

OR, limit the import of things like the iPhone? If they don’t allow iPhones in the region, then they Apple would have no hope of controlling ANY parts of EU citizens lives.
Then instead Google would have a monopoly with Android. That doesn’t make any sense.

What they’re ACTUALLY doing is trying to make the iPhone more desirable to EU citizens. Which seems contrary to the idea that they’re so very concerned about people using these devices.
They are not concerned about people using iPhones. They are concerned about Apple controlling how people are allowed to use their iPhones.
 
This is all leaving a really bad taste. If this is their attitude towards developers, why should people keep developing for their platforms 😓

Apple has treated developers as second class citizens for a long time, fortunately.

Most developers are like prostitutes, they follow the money. Most of them are willing to do unthinkable things just to get money to survive or have a job.

That's why so many developers support DMA. It may allow to pay Apple less and keep more of the money for themselves.
 
So non-webkit browsers are only allowed in the EU, and only on iPhones. I can’t see many companies wanting to maintain a separate browser codebase for just this.

Google will and thus most of the Chromium and Blink based browsers probably will.
 
One reason is to use extensions like uBlock Origin. Another reason is if you also use non-Apple devices and want to sync your browser tabs and history and bookmarks etc. across ecosystems.

Extending the original question. Why would anyone use non-Apple devices for browsing? ;-)
 
It’s not Apples job to give more companies or countries a chance. Effectively governments are regulating companies to give their own companies a chance. Rather than letting the try to compete.
The EU isn’t a government.
The US regulates and splits up its own companies itself, as do most other nations.
And yes, giving other companies a chance to compete is the goal.
 
It's also the ultimate in hypocrisy for a corporate that's made virtue signalling a core part of its brand. It bends over backwards for China, but the EU which actually has laws to enforce what Apple has regularly virtue signalled for decades? Nope, go eff yourself.

Apple is treating the EU and China the same. Apple tries to follow the laws and regulations in both places even if they disagree with them.

You see, the DMA wasn't made to stop Apple's business practices in general, only when performed by very large companies by software/services with tens of millions of users.

You could be a multi-billion dollar company and still be too small to be bound by the DMA.
 
Apple is treating the EU and China the same. Apple tries to follow the laws and regulations in both places even if they disagree with them.

You see, the DMA wasn't made to stop Apple's business practices in general, only when performed by very large companies by software/services with tens of millions of users.

You could be a multi-billion dollar company and still be too small to be bound by the DMA.
That's honestly weasel wording at it's finest.

The approach to compliance has been completely different.
 
They're right, Apple are playing crybaby -- in particular not allowing alternative browser engines on iPad because it's not 'iOS.' What a ridiculous move.

I've vacillated between supporting EU and Apple in this scenario because I understand both perspectives. Ultimately I think our devices should be as free and open as the end user sees fit.

If Apple were *motivated* to support more app stores and browser engines, they could figure out an elegant way to do so whilst remaining competitive. If this EU system seems clunky and disjointed, know that it's because Apple have intentionally made it so. We live in a world where you have to pick between Android or iOS. Period. Anyone claiming you can simply choose not to use those devices is not a serious person. Apple and Google cannot have a totalitarian say over what these devices can and cannot do.

Look at how many devs choose the Mac App Store when other app stores and independent release systems exist. They choose it because it's genuinely a good option on both the part of the developer and end user.

Also "security concerns" regarding alternative app stores sound mostly unfounded considering what makes iOS devices secure and private is the sandboxing and permissions system which works on a system level, Apple 'reviewing' each app that gets submitted to the App Store is mostly to check for content violations rather than malicious code I think. See macOS as an example and that's an even more difficult system to keep secure/private because software can optionally run helper processes at a root level.
Good points. I would only say that from the other side. Apple is still doing everything it can to not have to change much. Is it necessarily bad though? Multiple engines would help Chrome and would make web worse.
 
Ok - but why do we also silo out iOS and forget about macOS?

The same Apple has a desktop OS that is filled with consumer choice and it's not some insecure wasteland of theft, piracy, scamming and the like

Why do we always talk about iOS as if macOS doesn't exist and work wonderfully for millions of consumers?

Because iOS is so much better for many things, especially for users who don't care, don't want to think about security and just want something simple to use.

Mac for complex stuff.
iOS for simple stuff and a careless computer experience when you're an idiot or just don't want to think.
 
TLDR, there’s still a very long way to go to make our devices more powerful FOR USERS.

That's not something I want for iOS.

I want iOS and iPhones to be simple devices where you don't have to think or care about security. Apple should really handle the stuff and everything should be convenient and not involve using it as a computer but as an appliance.
 
I have a feeling the EU is going come down HARD on Apple for playing these ridiculous games and making it hard for devs to be more free.

It’s ridiculous! They basically have loopholes every EU regulation.

In my opinion Apple is playing with fire in Europe.
 
One reason is to use extensions like uBlock Origin. Another reason is if you also use non-Apple devices and want to sync your browser tabs and history and bookmarks etc. across ecosystems.
not all chrome extensions are available on ipad chrome, i am not sure if extensions in general are available on ipados chrome.
 
The European Commission expected that the GDPR would result in websites prioritizing the privacy of E.U. users — a better web in Europe than elsewhere. Instead, the result was increased user annoyance under a nonstop daily barrage of consent popovers — a worse web in Europe than elsewhere. I suspect the same will prove true of the DMA and mobile platforms.

Only on Macrumors will people praise Apple to the moon for implementing better privacy protections such as requiring a user's consent for tracking while vehemently objecting to giving people a choice concerning how their personal data should be processed on the web.

Every Apple user who values their privacy and choice should be primarily angry at private companies who have chosen to implement this in the worst possible way to frustrate users into giving consent, rather than the GDPR itself, but you do you.
 
They’ve spent years carefully crafting and cultivating a nice system, and instead of responding properly to the new rules, they are chucking their toys out of the pram. iOS and iPadOS share apps, and suddenly, overnight, that only works in certain circumstances and in certain parts of the world. Talk about cutting the nose off to spite the face.

Blame the EU which forces Apple to do something against their will.
 
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