Nearly All Mobile Device Makers Cheat on Benchmarks, Except Apple and Motorola

[apolloa]

Actually, you can even word it like this - Americans and Mexicans are exactly the same. Geography and all.

Anyone who thinks Asian cultures are not unique and distinct from each other is pretty stupid. Imagine thinking that North Koreans are the same culturally than South Koreans. Or Chinese and Japanese. Or Thai and Indians. Might as well say, "they all look alike."

I changed my comment to better reflect this, but yeap as you said. I think some people actually really should get out and see the world sometimes. Certainly open their eye's I think.

 

[mroffbeat]

Asian market always takes competition to the next level, whereas American companies usually value integrity and honesty over sacrifice of principles. I am proud to be an American because all the American companies here (Google, Moto, and Apple) have class and present their phones as they are. ........

throw patriot in there why dont you..
Where does the NSA has its party-town, its not on the moon!..



******

 

[Applesexual2]

All they do in Korea is copy everything. I love Koreans but they don't innovate in any business. When you go there all you see is fake Nikes, Adidas, cheap suits, faux leather, faux wood, faux gold, faux everything. It should be expected that they cheat in benchmark tests.

I highly doubt you've been to Korea. I have been there and I have yet to see anyone selling fake Nikes and Adidas.
Can you show me proof that the fake adidas and the fake iPhone below came from Korea? They look Chinese to me.

South Korea has far stronger intellectual property rights than the USA and it's ranked #2 in patents per capita. South Korea just doesn't see the value in page-turning animation patents and bounce-back animation patents. They do, however, value advanced electrical circuitry patents.
This is probably a cultural thing. We Americans like to patent the simplest things that a 2-year-old could come up with and call it innovation. Koreans and Japanese, on the other hand, require you to actually make something that a 2-year-old couldn't have made.

----------

Racial v. cultural, don't confuse the two.

This kind of topic has a potential to spin out of control if anyone suggests that it's "just the way things are over there" because of the PC joining of race and culture (they are NOT the same thing, or all "white" countries would be alike, as would all Black African countries, etc.). Because it's not PC to call a spade a spade, it makes it hard to discuss why this might be happening the way it's happening.

But what is a truth, is that the current culture in China and Korea is that lying, stealing and cheating to achieve is okay. It's not frowned upon. It's often done in concert with the government (Olympic cheating a prime example).

That is not to say that every corporation in the USA is clean nor every athlete, but simply that right now, lying cheating and stealing is publicly frowned upon, so if "caught" companies are shamed and must stop their tactics.

In Germany, it's even more entrenched in their culture and laws. Where in the USA, laws are lax when it comes to misrepresentation, in Germany they are more strict and enforceable. I believe they are stricter in Canada too, but if you watch anything involving Mike Holmes, you might think differently.

So it is not surprising that phones made in China and Korea are "copies" rather than innovations, and that they rig tests when they can. That's just the way to win, culturally, and it seems to be working for them.

What's interesting though is that, at least in China, when lying, cheating and stealing leads to death of innocents, then there is a sense of honor not shared in the west, one of self punishment, because it is only when another is harmed that they truly feel as if they have done anything wrong. In the USA, those who would act dishonestly are also the type who would do everything they can not to accept responsibility when the crap hits the fan.

----------


It's one of the reasons Apple hasn't been strong in China even though their products are made there. What Apple does is try to keep the knock-offs in China, and use the laws of other countries to keep them out of those countries. Same goes for Samsung, but Apple has failed there.

Right, and Jason Giambi and Lance Armstrong are Koreans.

 

[macfacts]

Potential fix

Reviews should start using fps games as benchmarks. Then this "cheating" wouldn't matter to most users.

 

[Applesexual2]

You nailed it!

The performance benefits of the A7 processor is thanks to Samsung's 28 nm HK+MG manufacturing process.
Samsung's own Exynos processor is made using 32 nm process because Apple could supply Samsung Semiconductor with more volumes than Samsung Electronics could. Thus, Samsung Semiconductor places Apple at a higher priority than they do with Samsung Electronics.

The design is essentially Samsung's. Apple gets to decide what GPU they want to use and what clockspeed they want. They're not involved in the creation of the tech, though. That's Samsung's and Arm's job.

 

[slapppy]

The performance benefits of the A7 processor is thanks to Samsung's 28 nm HK+MG manufacturing process.
Samsung's own Exynos processor is made using 32 nm process because Apple could supply Samsung Semiconductor with more volumes than Samsung Electronics could. Thus, Samsung Semiconductor places Apple at a higher priority than they do with Samsung Electronics.

The design is essentially Samsung's. Apple gets to decide what GPU they want to use and what clockspeed they want. They're not involved in the creation of the tech, though. That's Samsung's and Arm's job.

OMG...even I had to to read this a couple of times to make sure its not sarcasm or being funny. Wow.

 

[Applesexual2]

Asian market always takes competition to the next level, whereas American companies usually value integrity and honesty over sacrifice of principles. I am proud to be an American because all the American companies here (Google, Moto, and Apple) have class and present their phones as they are. I could imagine the decision in the engineering department, a VP thought of the good old days of a budding Silicon Valley where a young boy could get a job at a company by walking up to its CEO, where innovation thrived, driven by a group of idealistic young men, so he scoffed at the proposal to compete with these Asian newcomers at their level. Samsung might be the biggest smartphone maker, and HTC and Asus are poster childs for successful Taiwanese companies, but they have nothing of the tradition and history of people like Robert Noyce, Gordon Moore, Sherman Fairchild, and Andy Grove. This is why Silicon Valley continues to be the birthplace of most cutting edge technologies and inventions while their Asian counterparts master their arts of copying and expanding. I think what it comes down to is risk. What makes Silicon Valley special is the risk-taking courage. Samsung could come up 50 useless whiz features because as long some of them work, some generate buzz, then they accomplish a goal. It is 1,000 harder for companies like Google and Apple to say, create an entire new platform, or embed a finger print sensor, or use a new screen technology (retina), a new casing material (metal and glass); these are much more risky because they require huge capital investment and a commitment of your product line and company identity where a failure cannot be an option. Then once they pioneered it, it is much easier for Asian companies to follow suit and refine. "You got a retina? I will out 1080p in my phone." Well you see, it is not hard to put 1080p in a phone, it is hard to be the first company to take the huge risk to explore a new market. Once proven, of course it is easier for other companies to learn and follow. People of the world need to give more credits to this tradition entrepreneurial culture that differentiates American companies on this list. Without Google and Apple recently, or Intel, Fairchild, Bell Lab, Microsoft, etc, Samsung and LG will be still copying Sony and make DVD players.

----------



Think about it from the engineers perspective. They always want to build and code their products to be better, not meeting a standard. Now if they know how to ace a test, why wouldn't they tweak their systems to do it? Well some engineers won't, those with class and confidence that their PhD degrees probably from a better school taught them to use their time well, on work and research of actual substance and impact, instead of wasting time on inflating their works.

Popularizing something and inventing something are 2 different things. You also seem to be confusing consumer electronics companies and manufacturers. Inventions in technology come from manufacturers, which they sell to consumer electronics companies to be repackaged into a consumer-friendly packaging.
The retina is not a "new technology". It's just a screen using technology from various different manufacturers. That's why Samsung screens are superior to LG screens on the same model of Apple products. Apple had nothing to do with the technology that went into the retina display. It was all on Samsung, LG and SHARP.

 

[Pompiliu]

Guy 1: My phone is faster than your phone!

Guy 2: I have a girlfriend.

Guy 3(me): I have two.

 

[magbarn]

The performance benefits of the A7 processor is thanks to Samsung's 28 nm HK+MG manufacturing process.
Samsung's own Exynos processor is made using 32 nm process because Apple could supply Samsung Semiconductor with more volumes than Samsung Electronics could. Thus, Samsung Semiconductor places Apple at a higher priority than they do with Samsung Electronics.

The design is essentially Samsung's. Apple gets to decide what GPU they want to use and what clockspeed they want. They're not involved in the creation of the tech, though. That's Samsung's and Arm's job.

If this is the case then how come the GS4 isn't built on a cpu that blows away their current offering in raw cpu speed. Heck why not make a quad core A7 while they're at it? From what I understand is that Apple comes up with the design and then Apple/Samsung work together to adapt it to their process.

 

[Mattsasa]

Guy 1: My phone is faster than your phone!

Guy 2: I have a girlfriend.

Guy 3: My Girlfriend and I have the fastest phone

 

[Applesexual2]

OMG...even I had to to read this a couple of times to make sure its not sarcasm or being funny. Wow.

The power efficiency benefits of processors come from shrinking the die sizes in order for the distance of electrical circuits to shrink. If the distance travelled by the electrical circuits is reduced, power consumption is reduced.
The performance benefits of processors also come from shrinking die sizes, as that allows more nodes to be placed in a die, which increases the power of the processor.

This is straight from Samsung's own mouth: http://www.samsung.com/us/business/...m_Final_0311.pdf?CID=AFL-hq-mul-0813-11000279

"For 32/28nm, Samsung and its partners were the first to introduce the Foundry HKMG strategy. At 32/28nm, a Gate-First HKMG was selected since the scheme has proven to meet market and customer needs achieving superior area scaling and preservation of layout styles without complex restricted design rules."

In essence, anyone using Samsung's fabs have to follow Samsung's design rules. Customers are only allowed to change very little such as clockspeeds and which components they want to use.

----------

If this is the case then how come the GS4 isn't built on a cpu that blows away their current offering in raw cpu speed. Heck why not make a quad core A7 while they're at it? From what I understand is that Apple comes up with the design and then Apple/Samsung work together to adapt it to their process.

I answered it for you. Every Samsung division is its own individual company.
Samsung sells their services and devices to whomever can secure more volume.

For example, the MacBook pros use Samsung's premium SSDs because macbooks are more popular than Samsung's own laptop line. Therefore, the Samsung division that's responsible for designing SSDs sells their SSDs to Apple, NOT Samsung. Samsung's laptops use the slower SanDisk drives.

 

[LOLZpersonok]

It honestly surprises me that Apple is one of the truthful benchmarkers...Unless this post isn't exactly 'accurate', but who am I to say that it is or isn't?

 

[apolloa]

If this is the case then how come the GS4 isn't built on a cpu that blows away their current offering in raw cpu speed. Heck why not make a quad core A7 while they're at it? From what I understand is that Apple comes up with the design and then Apple/Samsung work together to adapt it to their process.

Yes. I do believe Apple is a lot more involved then most with it's SOC, it does have a very big majority share of the GPU maker for example, I don't how much of the CPU it develops but it has done with with the iPhone 5 CPU and on. But it is Samsung who make the chips.

 

[Applesexual2]

Yes. I do believe Apple is a lot more involved then most with it's SOC, it does have a very big majority share of the GPU maker for example, I don't how much of the CPU it develops but it has done with with the iPhone 5 CPU and on. But it is Samsung who make the chips.

Apple "designs" CPUs in the same way you design your computer by buying an Intel CPU, an Nvidia GPU, Samsung dRAM, Samsung SSD and some power supply.

Just think of ordering a pizza. That's pretty much how Apple's "Designs" their CPUs. They can determine the clockspeeds and the GPU they want to use, but that's about it.

 

[MaSx]

I think it's too soon to rule out any company at the moment. I am sure all the smartphone maker definitely takes part in some sort of cheating on benchmark including Apple and Motorola. Too soon to rule it out, once again.

 

[slapppy]

In essence, anyone using Samsung's fabs have to follow Samsung's design rules. Customers are only allowed to change very little such as clockspeeds and which components they want to use.

Now I really know its all smoke and mirrors on your post. Post your comment on Ars or Anand and I would love to see what they tell you. LOL

 

[Applesexual2]

Now I really know its all smoke and mirrors on your post. Post your comment on Ars or Anand and I would love to see what they tell you. LOL

"For 32/28nm, Samsung and its partners were the first to introduce the Foundry HKMG strategy. At 32/28nm, a Gate-First HKMG was selected since the scheme has proven to meet market and customer needs achieving superior area scaling and preservation of layout styles without complex restricted design rules."

Do the words "restricted design rules" not mean anything to you?
Who should I trust, some blind Apple fanboy or Samsung, the leaders in manufacturing tech?

 

[slapppy]

"For 32/28nm, Samsung and its partners were the first to introduce the Foundry HKMG strategy. At 32/28nm, a Gate-First HKMG was selected since the scheme has proven to meet market and customer needs achieving superior area scaling and preservation of layout styles without complex restricted design rules."

Do the words "restricted design rules" not mean anything to you?
Who should I trust, some blind Apple fanboy or Samsung, the leaders in manufacturing tech?

After your post of basically copy and paste marketing talk, I would rather trust the real GEEKS at Anand, Ars, Chipworks... not you. Maybe for entertainment, yes.

 

[Applesexual2]

After your post of basically copy and paste marketing talk, I would rather trust the real GEEKS at Anand, Ars, Chipworks... not you. Maybe for entertainment, yes.

This is straight from Samsung: http://www.samsung.com/us/business/...m_Final_0311.pdf?CID=AFL-hq-mul-0813-11000279

Keep denying though.

 

[captain kaos]

All i know is that i didn't find my old SGS3 that fast, would hesitate during lots of normal use, killed its battery under lite use and when i got rid of it and used my old ip4 the S3 didn't exactly feel that much faster!

 

[alent1234]

All i know is that i didn't find my old SGS3 that fast, would hesitate during lots of normal use, killed its battery under lite use and when i got rid of it and used my old ip4 the S3 didn't exactly feel that much faster!

My galaxy s3 lags and slows down in candy crush

 

[satcomer]

Maybe some of these blog reviewers should use the same game in each Android phone and see which one plays the best.

 

[9000]

I think AT&T and Verizon cheat on their benchmarks, which are speed tests. I get a 50mbps up and down result when I test on LTE. First of all, that sounds way too high. Considering content loads over the Internet at what looks like 1mbps, it looks false.

Yeah, I know it depends on the server, but I tried things that weren't normally slow and found that they were much slower than on my Mac loading pages on home ethernet or the iPhone on home wifi. My ISP at the time gave 30mbps down and 20mbps up.

 

[9000]

If this is true: Wow, Samsung, HTC, and LG. I always knew you sucked.

 

[Lousawyer6]

No, it's more like: Don't look at benchmarks. Wait, why are you looking at benchmarks? Ok, you're looking at benchmarks. That's fine. Look, these two devices use the same processor but get different scores. Doesn't that seem funny? Wait, why are you still buying it? Yes, it will stop playing video when you look away to reflect on the fact you hate yourself and only feel fulfilled with a bigger number. It comes in gold now too! WEEEEEEE!

Hey man try to ****ing relax and not say rude ****.