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So... Where is the catch-phrase for this fiasco? Come on, no 'cutesy' names like 'speed-gate'? I'm shocked... If Apple did this, it'd be ALL over the media, and the new name would be a household word.

Where's the double-standard?
 
This makes the benchmarks less useful in practice. Gaming the system could bring substantial gains especially if there are memory leaks or just crap code running on a system. For those that buy tech based on benchmarks, it's no longer that type of world since 1998. If you're a benchmark junky and want to only buy good benchmark gear, you're an idiot. Real world performance is what will always matter to people using tech to accomplish things instead of nerd raging. Right now iOS is leading in terms of OS responsiveness but it's starting to get a little heavy so who knows what several iterations of mobile OS upgrades would do.
 
And if you have both?, which I do...
I'll need to benchmark your girlfriend. You know, so you have an objective way of comparing her with other girls. Shouldn't take more than a week...:D

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The performance benefits of the A7 processor is thanks to Samsung's 28 nm HK+MG manufacturing process.
Samsung's own Exynos processor is made using 32 nm process because Apple could supply Samsung Semiconductor with more volumes than Samsung Electronics could. Thus, Samsung Semiconductor places Apple at a higher priority than they do with Samsung Electronics.

The design is essentially Samsung's. Apple gets to decide what GPU they want to use and what clockspeed they want. They're not involved in the creation of the tech, though. That's Samsung's and Arm's job.

Umm, no. Apple designed the chip, as is well documented and understood by anyone involved in this area. You are simply lying.

Does being paid by Samsung to spread lies pay well? Are you paid by the post?
 
Only stat nerds worry about the specs. Just like in basketball when people try to hype up LeBron with petty numbers and statistics. It's all about the eye-test and it factor.

Kobe = iPhone

LeBron = Samsung Galaxy SX/Note X
 
ISPs faking benchmarks too?

I feel like my ISP does the same thing. Whenever I go to speedtest.net it shows I get 80 MB/s downloads, but for some reason I can't watch a 480p video off youtube without it buffering
 
The performance benefits of the A7 processor is thanks to Samsung's 28 nm HK+MG manufacturing process.
Samsung's own Exynos processor is made using 32 nm process because Apple could supply Samsung Semiconductor with more volumes than Samsung Electronics could. Thus, Samsung Semiconductor places Apple at a higher priority than they do with Samsung Electronics.

The design is essentially Samsung's. Apple gets to decide what GPU they want to use and what clockspeed they want. They're not involved in the creation of the tech, though. That's Samsung's and Arm's job.

So many errors there.

- The latest Exynos used for the Galaxy S4 is made using 28nm HK+MG, the same manufacturing process as the A7

- There's no such entity as "Samsung Semiconductor" that's separated from Samsung Electronics

- Samsung Electronics use more Qualcomm's Snapdragons than the Exynos because the latest Exynos allegedly just isn't as good as those TSMC-made chips.

- The A6 and the A7 chips are Apple's designs. If you'd like to insist they are Samsung's design because Samsung manufactured it, you're effectively arguing nearly all graphics cards in the market must have been designed by TSMC and all the AMD CPUs have been designed by GloFo.

I highly doubt you've been to Korea. I have been there and I have yet to see anyone selling fake Nikes and Adidas.
Can you show me proof that the fake adidas and the fake iPhone below came from Korea? They look Chinese to me.

South Korea has far stronger intellectual property rights than the USA and it's ranked #2 in patents per capita.

South Korea, like many other Asian countries, has a pretty sketch history of copying and pirating intellectual property. Their DVD market is virtually non-existent because everyone downloads movies and pirated media, they have just recently gotten around by charging the sharing sites instead. Also Nintendo reportedly sold less than two games per Nintendo DS sold in the country (think about that for a second) because everyone used it.

In terms of industrial prowess, the older Koreans actually are often proud that the country learnt to make things quickly by copying industrialized countries back in the days. They even will tell you how intelligent and smart they were and how quickly they were able to copy the products from the USA because of their intelligence. The culture there just didn't consider such things to be wrong.

To be fair to the Koreans, pretty much everyone went through that phase. Japan did it, China is going through it, and I recall reading about Hollerith, the inventor who laid the foundation of IBM with his tabulating machine, complaining about European clones of his machine, and that was a century ago. The younger Koreans tend to be more mindful and ashamed of doing things the older ones used to do with glee. However the society is still very much driven by the "end justifies means" culture and this in many ways is similar to the Chinese mindset, which I think is related to the result of that benchmark cheating table.
 
So much fail in this thread. :rolleyes: Apple has an architect license with ARM and designs their own chips. They use Samsungs Fabs to produce their chips but they could easily have used TSMC Fabs with the same result. Qualcomm uses TSMC Fabs to produce their Snapdragon chips. They could also use Samsung's 28nm Fabs too. Obviously, Snapdragon isn't designed by TSMC so anyone claiming that Samsung designs Apple chips is a complete noob. :D
 
Apple "designs" CPUs in the same way you design your computer by buying an Intel CPU, an Nvidia GPU, Samsung dRAM, Samsung SSD and some power supply.

Just think of ordering a pizza. That's pretty much how Apple's "Designs" their CPUs. They can determine the clockspeeds and the GPU they want to use, but that's about it.

Totally wrong, Apple has an architectural license from ARM and can design the CPU like they want.

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So you actually know where those shoes were made? Please tell me how?

The one claiming that they were manufactured in Korea is you, can you prove it? Really? I will be very glad yo look at your proofs
 
So much fail in this thread. :rolleyes: Apple has an architect license with ARM and designs their own chips. They use Samsungs Fabs to produce their chips but they could easily have used TSMC Fabs with the same result. Qualcomm uses TSMC Fabs to produce their Snapdragon chips. They could also use Samsung's 28nm Fabs too. Obviously, Snapdragon isn't designed by TSMC so anyone claiming that Samsung designs Apple chips is a complete noob. :D

Some people (like telco staff) spread this false information to drive people to buy Samsung devices.
 
To be fair to the Koreans, pretty much everyone went through that phase. Japan did it, China is going through it, and I recall reading about Hollerith, the inventor who laid the foundation of IBM with his tabulating machine, complaining about European clones of his machine, and that was a century ago.

Oh poor americans everyone copied from you, of course what he did was absed on what europeans had done before and at least half if not more of everything computer related was done by europeans.


As if apple wouldnt do the same the minute they believe it would get them more sales, grow up people .
 
Ah, this is just great. Samsung's cheating of benchmarks being exposed. Who would really trust Samsung over Apple?
 
So this thing basically looks for an executable and speeds up when it detects it. Like malware that looks for a certain executable and blocks it from running.

Or a cpu governor that looks for a running program with its need to consume cycles and ramps it up out of sleep.
 
So the new iPhone is out with a new processor and suddenly everyone cares about benchmarks again lol, and 3-4 months down the track when it's no longer top dog , the smugness will go away an it's all going to turn to user experience being smoother on iOS even if it's not the fastest anymore.

Guys who cares!!!!! It's not like we can choose the CPU we put into the phones we have. By choosing apple you get what you are given. These benchmarks mean jack! Your not going to switch to android cause of these.

Worry more about markerting claims around your battery!
 
I am starting to feel a bit of a loser, I don't think I ever checked out a mobile phones CPU benchmarks before a purchase!

In fact I remember buying my iPhone 5 on how it felt in my hand, how easy it was to do the basic things such as make a call, how good the screen was, how good the camera was e.t.c. At no point did I think "Oh better check the geekbench score before I buy, wouldn't want to not be able to play game X in a years time". Perhaps if I was buying a lower end phone I would care more as the hardware could be mroe variable, but my iPhone 5 is still far more able to run the latest stuff than a brand new low / mid range phone and developers will always want to support the broadest range of devices.
 
Coming from someone that went to the dark side, and reappeared on the light, i'm now happy with the way apple releases hardware and software. It works, when a new camera setting comes out its done well, and it all works together. Granted you can get the same result with an Android phone, but its a bit messy and not very practice on a day to day basis.

For example. Go to walk around the zoo and take some photos with the SGS3. Nice camera, but within 1/2 hr the batteries dead. Not much use really. Apple slowly upgrades its CPU and camera, and it ends up with the same battery life as the last phone, which i think is pretty good. Plus, when i plugged in my old SGS3 for a "quick" charge you got less then 10% due to the 2000mAh odd battery. Plug in an iphone for a quick charge and you 'll be up to 50% in no time.
 
Ah, this is just great. Samsung's cheating of benchmarks being exposed. Who would really trust Samsung over Apple?

I could not give a crap about benchmarks.

I'm more concerned about what companies do with my data. Though if accurate benchmark scores let you sleep well at night sweet !

Btw, the title says nearly all device makers, not Samsung .
 
The question can we trust anyone now regarding specs. I never trusted samsung, they were always trying to compete against apple and hence if you can't beat them honestly you will always try to prove yourself even lie about it.

It's really shameful what's happening and now I even love my iPhone 5S even more as it's the most powerful device out there both on paper and in hands.
 
"For 32/28nm, Samsung and its partners were the first to introduce the Foundry HKMG strategy. At 32/28nm, a Gate-First HKMG was selected since the scheme has proven to meet market and customer needs achieving superior area scaling and preservation of layout styles without complex restricted design rules."

Do the words "restricted design rules" not mean anything to you?
Who should I trust, some blind Apple fanboy or Samsung, the leaders in manufacturing tech?

Samsung is certainly a leader in semiconductor manufacturing tech, as are TSMC and Global Foundries, amongst others, but I think that I could safely reserve the top tier to Intel and IBM for CPU's, though their foundries would not typically be available for custom designs of customers.

That said, these contract foundries do have well established processes that are necessary for the volume production of SOC designs from Apple, Nvidia and Qualcomm, and GPU's from the likes of AMD and Nvidia.

Your statement "which out complex restrictive design rules" is of importance to ARM, the ARM instruction set(s), and various licensed libraries from ARM and other IP such as Imagination's GPU's, that Apple and Qualcomm, holders of ARM Perpetual Licenses, might incorporate into their designs. I'm not sure what license Nvidia (Tegra) or Samsung (Exynos) would have with ARM for their designs,

Otherwise, Apple and Qualcomm are free to design their SOC's for whatever market, cost or performance that they require, and the foundries such as Samsung manufacture them. Samsung would have very little to do with these designs other than in an advisedly role with regards to specifics of the manufacturing process.

There is no "Exynos", "Tegra", or "Snapdragon" in Apple's A series of SOC; they are all just independent expressions of the ARM instructions set and other IP.
 
I don't see this as as big deal. It's not cheating. It's not a moral issue. It's seeing how fast a processor can crank under some artificial scenario.

It's like an athlete running 400 meters on a downhill slope, and proudly presenting his incredibly good time - without telling the world that he was running downhill. It's cheating. They didn't say "when the phone runs normally it gets a benchmark score of X, but if we put it into a special battery-eating, burning-hole-in-your-pocket mode, it gets a score of X + 20%". They said "our phone gets a benchmark score of X + 20%, while our competitors only get X".

That's cheating.

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In essence, anyone using Samsung's fabs have to follow Samsung's design rules. Customers are only allowed to change very little such as clockspeeds and which components they want to use.

You just demonstrated that you have no clue whatsoever how electronic chips are designed.
 
Nailed it

You nailed it Sir. This is so true.

Asian market always takes competition to the next level, whereas American companies usually value integrity and honesty over sacrifice of principles. I am proud to be an American because all the American companies here (Google, Moto, and Apple) have class and present their phones as they are. I could imagine the decision in the engineering department, a VP thought of the good old days of a budding Silicon Valley where a young boy could get a job at a company by walking up to its CEO, where innovation thrived, driven by a group of idealistic young men, so he scoffed at the proposal to compete with these Asian newcomers at their level. Samsung might be the biggest smartphone maker, and HTC and Asus are poster childs for successful Taiwanese companies, but they have nothing of the tradition and history of people like Robert Noyce, Gordon Moore, Sherman Fairchild, and Andy Grove. This is why Silicon Valley continues to be the birthplace of most cutting edge technologies and inventions while their Asian counterparts master their arts of copying and expanding. I think what it comes down to is risk. What makes Silicon Valley special is the risk-taking courage. Samsung could come up 50 useless whiz features because as long some of them work, some generate buzz, then they accomplish a goal. It is 1,000 harder for companies like Google and Apple to say, create an entire new platform, or embed a finger print sensor, or use a new screen technology (retina), a new casing material (metal and glass); these are much more risky because they require huge capital investment and a commitment of your product line and company identity where a failure cannot be an option. Then once they pioneered it, it is much easier for Asian companies to follow suit and refine. "You got a retina? I will out 1080p in my phone." Well you see, it is not hard to put 1080p in a phone, it is hard to be the first company to take the huge risk to explore a new market. Once proven, of course it is easier for other companies to learn and follow. People of the world need to give more credits to this tradition entrepreneurial culture that differentiates American companies on this list. Without Google and Apple recently, or Intel, Fairchild, Bell Lab, Microsoft, etc, Samsung and LG will be still copying Sony and make DVD players.

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Think about it from the engineers perspective. They always want to build and code their products to be better, not meeting a standard. Now if they know how to ace a test, why wouldn't they tweak their systems to do it? Well some engineers won't, those with class and confidence that their PhD degrees probably from a better school taught them to use their time well, on work and research of actual substance and impact, instead of wasting time on inflating their works.
 
Why can it be illegal?

Depends on where you are.

In Germany, competing by cheating is illegal. Say company A and B both have a benchmark score of 1000. And their management tells the developers "that score must go up to 1200". In company A, they work hard to improve the overall processor speed. In company B, they just cheat on the benchmark. Consumers who don't know what's going on think that both products run equally fast when they buy them, but they don't. Competing by _pretending_ that your hradware is fast while in reality it is not falls under "unfair competition" and is illegal.
 
Depends on where you are.

In Germany, competing by cheating is illegal. Say company A and B both have a benchmark score of 1000. And their management tells the developers "that score must go up to 1200". In company A, they work hard to improve the overall processor speed. In company B, they just cheat on the benchmark. Consumers who don't know what's going on think that both products run equally fast when they buy them, but they don't. Competing by _pretending_ that your hradware is fast while in reality it is not falls under "unfair competition" and is illegal.

Samsung is not doing the benchmark and using that benchmark to do any marketing so unfair competition doesn't has nothing to do

And, actually, the phone is as fast as they say, they are not overclocking it, they are using the full CPU speed.

So, it is unethic? Yes, illegal? I highly doubt it. Nobody has talked about nVidia, AMD or Intel doing illegal things when they have cheated benchmarks, and all of them have done that.

And nobody has talked about doing illegal things when browser developers have optimized their engines to have a high score on benchmarks like Sunspider, and all of them do that,
 
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