Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
New All-in-One Mac for Education?
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
nsjoker said:
Exactly - with the Core 2 Duo line coming out in the very near future, all the Macs will transition to these new lines (Merom, Conroe) so it will make perfect sense to put a nice cheap Core Duo in the new eMac. This will help keep costs down on these machines, which is an important factor in the educational market.
If Apple decides to distinguish regular classroom use from use by "power users" in schools (prostudents?), the shape of the display is a factor to be considered along with the processing power.
Commonl classroom use, such as word processing, presentation, web surfing, and perhaps drawing, would be fine with a standard aspect ratio display, whereas a widescreen format better suits video editing, which more and more students are getting to try their hand at.
Apple has led consumers toward widescreen and I expect it to do the same for schools, but is that what most schools would prefer?
Commonl classroom use, such as word processing, presentation, web surfing, and perhaps drawing, would be fine with a standard aspect ratio display, whereas a widescreen format better suits video editing, which more and more students are getting to try their hand at.
Apple has led consumers toward widescreen and I expect it to do the same for schools, but is that what most schools would prefer?
Mindfield said:
Yes, Apple is not going to make a worse computer to make people happy, that would be stupid! Also All other PC makers with Core Duo are in the same boat, and they plan to move up. TO cripple you computers to make people happy is the stupidest bussiness move.
narco said:
That must be the stupidest idea ever! Hope you didn't actually think it would be a real possibility..
Weaker 17" iMac Would Work
I agree. Just roll with 1.66GHz Core 2 Duo with optional 2GHz BTO, Combo with Super BYO, 80 GB SATA HD with 120,160,300 and 500 BTO, Wi-Fi BTO, and what greg wrote. Problem solved.gregorsamsa said:
There is no way on Earth Apple will put in anything smaller than a 17 inch LCD in a new eMac.
No one wants to look at a tiny little 15" or worse yet 12" as some of you suggested, and to the poster that said a 6" I hope it was a typo.
My school bought 15" CRTs four years ago and they are begining to seem too small. The CAD room and teachers desks all are getting newer 17 inch CRTs. (I don't know why they just don't buy LCDs (the tech guys and main office all have 19 inch LCDs )
There is also no way the eMacs will be anything other than a fully functioning independant machine (not a client), plus they will definetly have gigabit ethernet - it's a standard now and most schools have a central server were all the data goes, so there will definitely be a fast hard wire system.
And as for keyboard and mouse theft - Almost nonexistant, no one wants a keyboard or mouse any more, there common items, most thefts of computer hardware is of hard drives, optical drives, and RAM. (at least at this school)
The eMacs will have to be heavy and bulky, you cannot lock up all the Macs cause that would become unbelievably expensive.
No one wants to look at a tiny little 15" or worse yet 12" as some of you suggested, and to the poster that said a 6" I hope it was a typo.
My school bought 15" CRTs four years ago and they are begining to seem too small. The CAD room and teachers desks all are getting newer 17 inch CRTs. (I don't know why they just don't buy LCDs (the tech guys and main office all have 19 inch LCDs
) There is also no way the eMacs will be anything other than a fully functioning independant machine (not a client), plus they will definetly have gigabit ethernet - it's a standard now and most schools have a central server were all the data goes, so there will definitely be a fast hard wire system.
And as for keyboard and mouse theft - Almost nonexistant, no one wants a keyboard or mouse any more, there common items, most thefts of computer hardware is of hard drives, optical drives, and RAM. (at least at this school)
The eMacs will have to be heavy and bulky, you cannot lock up all the Macs cause that would become unbelievably expensive.
1.66GH Core 2 Duo Merom Base In Next eMac - Please
You mean nice cheap Core 2 Duo right ~Shard~? I don't see Apple using Yonah in the next eMac. Intel is not going to keep making Yonahs for any significant amount of time. It would be pretty dumb to ship a new eMac with Yonah inside a month before Intel ships Meroms don't you think? Plus any heat issues with Yonah is something Apple will not want to have to deal with at the educational institutional level is it? Using slow 1.66 GHz Meroms from the get go will be heat free insurance, plus 64-bit hardware for the next generation of code warriors.~Shard~ said:
mklos said:
Finally some sense to this thread. This was about an edu computer and most of the writers just began writing the specs of their personal dream cheap computers.
I don't think even bluetooth would be needed here, but airport is good to have. I'm pretty sure making a 17" lcd for imac is cheaper or the same price than making a 15" with the same resolution.. am I wrong here?
Still, ethernet would be good because in many cases it's smarter to have most of the files stored on a server. So with gigabit ethernet the computers wouldn't need so big HDs. It has to be cheap, so there can't be expensive stuff on it.
Apple isn't making the edu computers because they want schools to have them. They make them because they want money.
15 inch LCD = 17 inch CRT. It's perfectly adequate for the educational market. The low end eMac is not a video editing workstation or a CAD machine, and no one should expect it to be. Schools with enough money to have the software for these applications also have a lab of decent computers capable of running them.081440 said:
The eMac is not a super do-everything machine. It's a basic computer that fulfills the needs of running office applications, Internet applications, and educational software. It should be reliable, inexpensive, and easy to support.
They also don't have to be 50-pound monsters or bulletproof. They're not operating in war zones. There should probably be a tough coating on the LCD to make it more durable, but I've seen LCDs in many public schools--by and large intact. Any computer roughly the size of an iMac is too large to sneak out of a computer lab, and zip-tying the cord to the power strip is an inexpensive security measure that's rather effective. If students have access to an unsupervised and unlocked computer lab, that's the school's own fault.
It definitely doesn't need dedicated graphics, Bluetooth, or even a DVD writer. Some would argue it doesn't need an optical drive or Airport, either. No Front Row, no remote, no widescreen display (unless they just re-use the MBP one). It just has to be a basic, networkable all-in-one absolutely no better than a Mac mini for about $800.
Apple finally has an OS that, for the masses, can completely replace Windows. And, with Boot Camp and virtualization, schools COULD run Windows if they wanted. Apple is in a position to provide schools with EVERYTHING they need in one computer. Why buy a Dell when you could buy a Mac that does everything a Dell does AS WELL AS a Mac. Educators have to like that option.
Well Apple wouldn't HAVE to make it an EXACT replica of a Mini, it could have different specs if they wanted to separate them. I was concerning more not the specs but just compact design in general. They have the basis already, just switching up ports and the optical drive with the enclosure design would make it a "new" eMac. I dunno i think it's a good idea. Better than a dumbed down iMac if you ask me.Les Kern said:
mozmac said:
Because a school couldnt care less what OS a computer runs.
This myth that educational machines have to be less powerful is ludicrous. My college needed to refurb its video editing suits last summer (We have three - each with 10/15 machines with all the stand capturing equipment etc) - and there is no way they could afford the Mac equivalents to what they could get from Dell, Pinnacle and Adobe Premier/Photoshop educational licensing. They had a grant and wanted as much bang for their buck as possible, and Dell gave them that - They dont care if it runs Windows or OS X.
I have spoken to several staff members in this area, and they all dismissed the Mac's as overpriced for what you actually get. Now obviously, I feel differently as I prefer Final Cut Ex to Premier, but unless Apple pulls something cool out of the bag that provides enough power at a reasonable price, that attitude wont change.
Computer workstations in schools probably do a hell of a lot more processing on a variety of tasks than many computers in (non creative) businesses. This idea that the eMac has to be sub-average just so Apple's other products dont look "good" is crazy. To a school - There is also no benefit of OS X; its just an operating system. To be quite honest, its probably a down side - Few people in the UK actually know what the hell Mac OS X is or how it differs from Windows, let alone actually using it I can only see schools here buying Macs in mass if their was a clear price advantage.
Schools dont care if the computer looks like a pile of crap - As long as it does what they want and doesnt cost them the earth. They dont need Bluetooth, wireless, iSight, FrontRow, iThisAndThat"Great"Feature - Just a good enough computer to teach with.
If Apple wants the education market, its essential that they pack as much punch into these machines for as smaller a price with as few unnecessary gadgets as possible. Dont want it to outshine the iMac? Dont sell it to average Joe in the normal stores.
I realise some of you might agree with what I have said and that's entirely your right - But I'm afraid the points I have raised are important to Educational Institutions. We're not talking about a luxury personal computer for individual home use (i.e... Any Mac!); we are talking about a computer that works hard in a school... There is a huge difference.
Given Apple's recent market share gains and overall momentum, it's logical that Apple would continue its presence in the education market.
A revision to the eMac would be logical as many students will get their first exposure to a Mac in school as opposed to home as many homes have PC's.
A revision to the eMac would be logical as many students will get their first exposure to a Mac in school as opposed to home as many homes have PC's.
That's true of any Intel Mac. The eMac is an entry-level machine. It's the Mac mini with a display, at best. Educators already have the option for a do-everything multimedia machine. It's called an iMac. What they don't have is a cheap, basic Mac box that students can't hide in their backpacks. That's the option these fanciful boxes don't provide. If a school can get a $500 Dell that does everything they need, why should they buy an iMac-level machine with features they don't want? A $700 basic eMac might get their business, if the support and reliability are what they need, but anything more expensive or more full-featured is missing the core market.
A $1000 "education" iMac, even if it has triple the features of the $500 Dell (more bang per buck), is still going to cost them double. Schools are pragmatic. They buy a small number of expensive machines to do the fancy things, and then they buy affordable boxes everywhere else. 100 computers that do everything you need is more appealing than 50 that do far more than you need. That's the option that's missing, in my opinion.
matticus008 said:
I'm afraid that is simply not true. The features you don’t mention in the iMac, but presumably mean iSight, Bluetooth etc... Schools just don’t need that stuff - If you're talking about software, there is a vast amount of quality freeware for Windows that schools utilize and much bespoke education software (Some of which local education authorities actually purchase for their schools) So it isn’t a case of how many features it has, like you said, it’s about the final cost.
A computer quick enough to run a vast library of applications for different subject areas at a good price is all that’s needed. There is NO Mac that suffices this requirement right now (The Mini is not acceptable and wouldn’t get used in schools simply because it comes with no screen or input devices) - This rumoured eMac may change this - if it meets the criteria aforementioned.
codo said:
They already dom the MacBook is a hell of a deal, for the power and price, its not dirt cheap but for the value of speed its a very good deal(even when looking at PC laptops)
9 times out of 10 no they don't...but it should always be an option!codo said:
Indeed they do, but we're not always happy about it! Sometimes schools have less choice and are restricted, or at least feel restricted.codo said:
An eMac could change this, like it (in my opinion) was already doing to some degree.codo said:
Cost is always a big issue with schools, but so is lifespan. The government look to have a 3 year life-span in most schools for computers before they should look to upgrade. If a machine is going to last that long well then they won't need to spend that money. Most machines a school has if they are used heavily are so in dire need of replacement before 3 years but the money isn't there...neither is it to keep doing this every few years.
One thing Macs are good at is lifespan, they last, they don't usually crumble away like most PCs as quick...this is in my working opinion also a big selling point. Even if the price was a touch higher than cheap PCs schools often get, if it were to last longer (and still do everything the cheap PC can do...software etc) then a lot of schools would strongly consider it, especially higher up, or more heavily funded schools. Schools which are able to take the risk and get something new and a touch more expensive from the usual RM grey boxes schools get.
(Bare in mind this is in the UK, I have no experience of anywhere else in the world).
zap2 said:
Absolutely! My post was more aimed at the desktop market (which makes up a larger proportion of Edu Instu. computer use). However I totally agree, the MacBook is a pretty good deal for schools - However I still think many would opt for a Dell without the camera etc for a lower price because returning to my original point... They dont want or need those "features".
My point still remains; there is a difference between a home computer and educational one. You have to understand how competitive and how tight the educational market is in terms of A) How much schools have to spend (which is not a hell of a lot) and B) The many companies wanting this prime market share. Check out http://www.rm.com/. Most primary and secondary schools in the UK buy their machines from these guys - Cheap and do the job. However, look like crap - Do they care? No... Its an educational computer, not a home device. The last majority chunk goes to Dell.
I have never been to or known anybody to have attended a British state primary or secondary school that had more than one or two Macs (That generally go unused because they are so old and no one really understands them) Sure, their might be some who experience quite the opposite, but the figure sure isnt going to be large.
Absolutely.codo said:
And Stone. Even though they had their prime a while back, they're coming back (with RM intergration!...so in the end..still RM networks!)codo said:
One problems schools have (or more the LEAs) is the relationship with manufacturers. Sometimes the manufacturers will not see and treat the LEAs and schools as what they are...educational institutions, as you say it's a whole different ball game. LEAs have problems in getting them to fully acknowledge them for who they are to ensure fast and efficient communication, support, repairs and everything else that should go with a service or a contract. For this reason they are often forced to go with other small players or someone else and end up worse in other ways. (This has happened in my LEA with school admin machines).
Unfortunately yes. My old college had an iMac G4 in the VIth Form DT Studio, old software with not much on it, wasn't networked or anything. But those who knew how to use it used it! Plus is was always a conversation piece of a focal point to inspire you!codo said:
Gil, I can see 100% where you are coming from.
I'd love to see Apple provide machines and service at a competitive price in the UK for the Education market, because at the end of the day, they are great computers.
I only left high school a few years ago, and I can remember them having all their new Dells fitted and all the networking problems, file servers, printers and general ease of use being dreadful for the staff.
Macs can change this; Apple has to convince the sector with competitive pricing and suitable machines, however.
I'd love to see Apple provide machines and service at a competitive price in the UK for the Education market, because at the end of the day, they are great computers.
I only left high school a few years ago, and I can remember them having all their new Dells fitted and all the networking problems, file servers, printers and general ease of use being dreadful for the staff.
Macs can change this; Apple has to convince the sector with competitive pricing and suitable machines, however.
Hector said:
I doubt they'll leave out Front Row/iSight. They're pushing Front Row on the Edu site and iSight is good for (obviously
) video conferencing, something that my school is really excited about with the new MacBooks.edit: emoticon fix
But the iMac is bound to evolve too!
A stripped down iMac for new eMac shell could work. After all, the current eMac is not dissimilar to the original iMac G3. Then when the iMac G4 came out people said: "Brilliant! Design-wise it can't get much better." People seem to be assuming the same thing about the current iMac.
I think the new eMac will be quite similar to the iMac in appearance. Long-term this won't affect iMac sales too much. Apple will surprise us yet again with a newly-designed Intel iMac within ... 2 years.
JGowan said:
A stripped down iMac for new eMac shell could work. After all, the current eMac is not dissimilar to the original iMac G3. Then when the iMac G4 came out people said: "Brilliant! Design-wise it can't get much better." People seem to be assuming the same thing about the current iMac.
I think the new eMac will be quite similar to the iMac in appearance. Long-term this won't affect iMac sales too much. Apple will surprise us yet again with a newly-designed Intel iMac within ... 2 years.
Right. You might have missed my post prior to that one which was more directly involved with this particular point of yours.codo said:
Exactly right. We're saying the same thing
.And it is! It's an iMac. Schools should also have the option NOT to have those features or be required to pay for them. Right now the 9 out of 10 don't have that choice.Gil_Grissom said: