New All-in-One Mac for Education?

[mccldwll]

It likely will still have iSight, but not bluetooth or wireless. Most school networks are still hard-wired. ISight, however, is virtually free and already engineered into the frames of the iMacs.

Respectfully disagree on above points. Even if schools wired, still want flexibility of wireless (but not sure if need/want bluetooth). Seriously doubt isight would be included. Too much mischief and distraction (anything you can imagine will happen). Make kids lust for isight on their home systems. Proposed emac w/ minimal footprint perfect computer for office keyboarding. Also, can't help but think new emac in some small way related to apple's upcoming program for free recycling.

 

[sushi]

Here is my mock-up. I think it's getting close to what you were suggesting.
It looks sort of like a MacBook, but it certainly isn't portable.

I remember when these came out. Almost purchased one. They were very good at the time.

Over here in Japan, they have models that may be what Dr. Q is suggesting.

For example:

http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/L1/

Personally, I prefer a separate keyboard so that I can position it where I want.

 

[alec]

Exactly, if anything, I'd expect the opposite -- wireless and the possibility of iSight. But no bluetooth.

Respectfully disagree on above points. Even if schools wired, still want flexibility of wireless (but not sure if need/want bluetooth). Seriously doubt isight would be included. Too much mischief and distraction (anything you can imagine will happen). Make kids lust for isight on their home systems. Proposed emac w/ minimal footprint perfect computer for office keyboarding. Also, can't help but think new emac in some small way related to apple's upcoming program for free recycling.

 

[gregorsamsa]

Why redesign? Use iMac form & call it iMac-E

Wouldn't it be far easier just to release a stripped down iMac (have combo drive, no iSight, no BT, etc.) & call it the ... iMac-E! This could sell for much less than the current 17" iMac & would be ideal for the educational market.

 

[FF_productions]

Wouldn't it be far easier just to release a stripped down iMac (have combo drive, no iSight, no BT, etc.) & call it the ... iMac-E! This could sell for much less than the current 17" iMac & would be ideal for the educational market.

iMac-E? Your joking...right? How about we stick with eMac?

 

[zac4mac]

How about this Outbound Kangaroo I found in a dumpster a few years ago.
Keyboard has infra-red link.

http://homepage.mac.com/zac4mac/.Public/CIMG0075.JPG

 

[gregorsamsa]

iMac-E? Your joking...right? How about we stick with eMac?

I was being serious!! Apple ought to employ guys like me in their marketing depts!

 

[zap2]

Sorry to say this guys, but some of you are such lame mac geeks that you've never built a computer yourself and have no concept of component costs, etc...

As much as I like Macs and Mac OS, the one thing you miss out on (for better or worse) is the first-hand knowledge of hardware you get when you build a performance PC.

The new eMac will likely be around $899, possibly $999.

There is no reason not to offer wides screen - and 15.4" widescreen really isn't big enough for a desktop. Moreover, the marginal cost of a 17" screen is virtually zilch. Combine this with the fact that Apple alreadh has engineered a 17" body for the iMac, and its obvious that the eMac will be a 17" widescreen likely with 1440 x 900 resolution.

It likely will still have iSight, but not bluetooth or wireless. Most school networks are still hard-wired. ISight, however, is virtually free and already engineered into the frames of the iMacs.
It likely will not have a core solo, but rather leftover core-duos, probably T2300 1.66 GHZ Yonahs. THey cost marginally more than core-solos and are great for multitasking - soemthing school computers get used for all the time.

Finally, the harddrive is a 3.5" drive. THis is where most people on here don't seem to know anything about hardware costs. The reasons laptop harddrives go in increments of 60/80/100/120 GB is because they are 2.5" drives and far more expensive for larger capacities.

3.5" drives, however, now start at 80GB. The next step is 120GB, which is virtually the same price as 160GB.


It is assanine to think that the eMac will have a 40GB harddrive - again - it's a 3.5" drive. Most companies stopped making 3.5" drives that small years ago.

So here are my predicted specs:

-iSight
-No wireless, no bluetooth
-17" 1440x900
-1.66 GHZ Core Duo Yonah
-512 MB ram (2 x 256 due to the neceissity of running dual-channel for integrated graphics)
-Intel integrated 950 GMA
-80GB Harddrive
-Combo Drive (No need for superdrive)
-Special hard plastic casing around computer

-$899 available only to schools and through the education store.

You seem to be miss know-how of how Apple works. Apple had a superdrive on the ls eMac(on the high end). I'll likly have a model with AirPort.

Also you reason for it being a 17'' Widescreen is flawed as Apple will likely change the over all look of the eMac, especial if they switch to an LCD based eMac

 

[peharri]

Easiest way to cut the costs...

...and to make the machine relatively useless to steal: remove the hard drive. Don't even give it the ability to boot from a hard drive.

Give it a decent amount of RAM (so swap is rarely necessary), and gigabit networking, and offer the classroom administrator a decent Mac OS X Server machine that can provide storage and network booting via BOOTP/et al.

There's no reason a device that isn't meant to be portable, and will always be part of a network, couldn't operate like this. A device that's essentially a Mac mini with a keyboard, mouse, and 12-14" screen (whatever Apple can get cheaply) shouldn't cost more than $800, especially with hard drive removed, no interface to it, and USB/Firewire booting locked (requiring some kind of machine specific dongle that can locked away) From the point of view of the teacher who's lumbered with the system administrator job, their job becomes easier, there's just one central server to admin, one set of applications, no cause for any user account to be given "Admin" privs. No single machine will suddenly become tempramental due to a wierd config.

 

[hsds04a]

I beg to differ...

Today, there are many 40GB Hard Drives for sale.

Prices for new 40GB are about $10-$20 cheaper than 80GB models. That is a significant savings on an OEM product.

I don't know the current standard mark up for OEM price costing, but let's say it's only 4 times. So a $10 OEM wholesale price difference would be equal to a $40 retail price difference. Of course the greater the difference in OEM price the greater the difference in retail pricing.

Now whether or not Apple decided to go with a 40GB vice 80GB is another issue. Everything must be taken into account when designing the package. In Apple's case, offering an 80GB may be a better marketing choice.

I don't think you're correct about the price premium of 40GB vs. 80GB hard drives. Presently, the lowest prices for various types of 3.5" hard drives on newegg.com are as follows:

40GB PATA: $41.99 (Western Digital Caviar WD400BB)
80GB PATA: $44.49 (Western Digital Caviar WD800BB)
40GB SATA: $45.99 (SAMSUNG SpinPoint P80SD HD040GJ)
80GB SATA: $45.99 (Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JD)

Obviously, Apple would probably pay lower prices that would not correlate precisely with these, but they are nevertheless a useful guide to current hard drive pricing.

These prices show a $2.50 price premium for 80GB PATA drives and no premium at all for 80GB SATA drives (and Apple will probably be using SATA drives in any new models they introduce). All the 40GB and 80GB drives on Newegg are priced quite similarly, between $41.99 and $50.99. So it seems unlikely that Apple would pay $10 more for 80GB versus 40GB drives; indeed, there may be no premium at all.

Also, most hard drive manufacturers do not list 40GB models in their most recently released families of drives. Samsung, Seagate, Hitachi, and Maxtor seem to offer 40GB models only from older product lines. The only manufacturer that may be offering latest-generation 40GB drives is Western Digital. They don't clearly differentiate families of drives, but they do offer several 40GB models and have obviously updated them somewhat recently, since they are available with 300 MB/s SATA. This picture suggests that as older hard drive lines are discontinued and supplies dry up, the availability of 40GB drives may become quite limited fairly soon, with perhaps only one manufacturer continuing to produce them.

We can get some idea of Apple's retail "markups" on hard drive prices relative to Newegg by looking at what Apple charges for hard drive upgrades in build-to-order configurations. The low-end iMac and Power Mac G5 both start with 160GB SATA drives. They can be upgraded to 250GB for $75, or to 500GB for $375. These compare to the following prices for the cheapest SATA drives of various capacities at Newegg:

120GB: $68.99 (Western Digital Caviar SE WD1200JS)
160GB: $64.99 (HITACHI Deskstar T7K250 HDT722516DLA380 (0A31637))
200GB: $76.99 (Western Digital Caviar SE WD2000JS)
250GB: $74.99 (Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6L250S0)
300GB: $94.99 (Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3300822AS)
320GB: $108.99 (Western Digital Caviar SE WD3200JD)
400GB: $177.99 (Western Digital Caviar RE2 WD4000YR)
500GB: $249.99 (Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000KS)

So at Newegg, a 250GB drive costs $10 more than a 160GB drive, and a 500GB drive costs $185 more than a 160GB drive. The figure for the 250GB drive suggests an Apple "markup" relative to Newegg of 7.5x, but this figure is of questionable reliability because the variation in prices among different 160GB and 250GB drives is on the same order as the $10 price difference between the cheapest ones, so slight changes is drive pricing could change it quite a bit. The figure for the 500GB drive gives an Apple markup of about 2x, which is a more reliable figure, although it might not accurately reflect the markup for smaller-capacity drives.

Even taking the questionable 7.5x markup and the $2.50 price difference between 40GB and 80GB PATA drives at Newegg, we get a retail price difference of only $18.75, and I think the real figure would probably be lower. Considering this small price difference, coupled with the questionable future availability of 40GB 3.5" drives, I am quite sure Apple will not elect to use 40GB 3.5" drives in any future computer models.

On the other hand, there is a $19 price difference at Newegg between an 80GB SATA drive and the next larger model, which is large enough that Apple might well use 80GB drives in low-end desktop systems. It is also interesting to observe that in relatively low-capacity drives, there seems to be a pattern of two capacities having very similar prices, followed by a noticeably higher price for the next capacity up. As long as this trend holds, Apple is probably unlikely to offer 120GB and 200GB hard drives for much the same reason that they won't offer 40GB drives.

 

[sushi]

...and to make the machine relatively useless to steal: remove the hard drive. Don't even give it the ability to boot from a hard drive.

<snip>

Interesting idea.

And if they have a Gbit Ethernet, then you would not need WiFi. Plus you could dump BT.

They could use the same screen as the MBP 15. Already in the system. Greater numbers would drive the costs down.

BTW, I've seen this concept used on the Windows side quite a bit. Works well for most common office tasks.

 

[mccldwll]

Stripped emac colored imac for $699, with either 1) several performance ugrades OR 2) black color, for $849. (couldn't resist)

 

[Doctor Q]

...and to make the machine relatively useless to steal: remove the hard drive. Don't even give it the ability to boot from a hard drive.

Give it a decent amount of RAM (so swap is rarely necessary), and gigabit networking, and offer the classroom administrator a decent Mac OS X Server machine that can provide storage and network booting via BOOTP/et al.

Ah, thin clients. That would suit us quite well, since we already netboot the student Macs off the server. Would it actually still work if the hard disks we have now in each Mac were physically removed? Are they still used, for swap space?

Of course, a thief might not realize that the Mac is missing its hard drive unless we put signs on each one saying "Attention thieves - This Mac is not worth stealing!"

 

[X5-452]

I can see the eMac becoming 15" LCD based w/ 80GB HDD, 512MB RAM, IIG 64MB, no iSight or FrontRow, Combo Drive and 1.66Ghz Core Duo for $799. Then the $999 model can be either 15" or 17" LCD (not too sure what they'll decide), 160GB HDD, 512MB RAM, IIG 64MB, SuperDrive, iSight (maybe FrontRow) and 1.83Ghz Core Duo. They would keep WiFi in them, just because a lot of schools are becoming wireless hotspots so that'll help if the eMac's are pre-configured for it, but I can't see them keeping BlueTooth.

The only problem is that they'll have to finally bump up the Mac mini specs.

 

[schatten]

eMacs are a bi***

Man, those eMacs were a nightmare to fix. Seriously, you get a bad mainboard in one of those, that took about 2-3 hours to swap out (& alot of heavy lifting) I HATED repairing those things! That coulpled witha known defect with the CRTs made for all sorts of fun.

 

[~Shard~]

I don't think the eMac failed at all. It just became too old.

I agree, I don't think it's a matter of failing, I think it has just slipped "behind the times' so to speak. This rumored refresh to the line will be just what the doctor ordered* and will bring the eMac back as an excellent alternative for educational institutions.



*Disclaimer: I in no way have any knowledge as to whether or not Doctor Q will be ordering a new eMac.

 

[Plymouthbreezer]

Ughhh... Not newtetwork booting! Our school system has this, and it really blows. Granted we had crappy no name machines ranging from 266MHz models to new 2.8GHz's, it proves a terrible system.

 

[Doctor Q]

*Disclaimer: I in no way have any knowledge as to whether or not Doctor Q will be ordering a new eMac.

Me either. This is only a rumor.

 

[sushi]

I agree, I don't think it's a matter of failing, I think it has just slipped "behind the times' so to speak.

And the change to an LCD supports SJ's comment some time ago about having all LCD displays.

 

[Doctor Q]

And the change to an LCD supports SJ's comment some time ago about having all LCD displays.

Just as with floppy drives, Apple's decision to drop CRTs was on the leading edge of a trend that some found surprising at first, but everyone now recognizes.

 

[sushi]

Just as with floppy drives, Apple's decision to drop CRTs was on the leading edge of a trend that some found surprising at first, but everyone now recognizes.

Yep, Apple tends to set trends don't they!

 

[Caitlyn]

In a thread somewhere else on the forum, someone said they saw a 17" iMac Core Solo at their local Apple Store. If this is true, maybe that will be our new "Education Mac".

 

[JGowan]

Wouldn't it be far easier just to release a stripped down iMac (have combo drive, no iSight, no BT, etc.) & call it the ... iMac-E! This could sell for much less than the current 17" iMac & would be ideal for the educational market.

First, let Steve name it, please. Second, Apple doesn't do what is easy. It does what's right. And a stripped down iMac doesn't sound like a good business model. It would cannibalize their iMac sales + there just wouldn't be the right distinction between the two. Everything needs to look completely different and yet, look like they are all part of the same family.

 

[Mindfield]

What I've been wondering is would Apple jump that fast to using Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest whatever in iMacs, because I think it'd piss owners of Core Duo iMac having an inferior processor maybe less than a year from buying a new computer. Sure Apple could use rapid speed bumps and better processors, but maybe they've shed some thought how they'd react.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

So, odd as it seems, the MacBook form factor, if prevented from being portable, may best suit a classsroom. Of course, it doesn't have to be thin with a flip-up lid, so imagine a fat permanently-open MacBook - that's what could replace the eMac. Who's going to mock one up?

One problem...mice and keyboards are prone to failing...getting spilled on...etc.. No perminantly attached keyboards.

What we'll see from Apple is a whole new re-design. Using a current design for a low end model would give people the impression that the iMac model is a low end/slow model. bad PR.

No retro G4. Using an old model would possibly have people buying them for their looks instead of a mini. Nix that idea too...

What we'll get is an 80 gig hard drive, IIG, Wireless and BT, but no iSight. Frontrow would work for presentations maybe? Core Duo, and a new, easy to service form factor with a 15" or 17" screen.

If you're looking for a design, look at your CRT monitors guys (I know you still use them) but a full size optical drive and some USB ports on the bottom, and that's what the front will look like. The back will be...different.

At least, that's what I think.