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New Get A Mac Ad: Stuffed
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Yes, I am comparing the two. I would not say that OSX application removal is 10x better. Overall, in most part, I would say OSX app removal is quicker and easier. Not perfect.
Like I said, when you remove an application on OSX ( delete the icon in the Finder ) you still don't delete the other files from Applicationpreferences, Application Support under /Library and your home directory. YOU have to do that manually, and the vast majority of Mac users won't know about this. You will have a lot redundant files hanging around.
A lot of unix applications do have a hidden directory or file(s) - for example:
.MyApplication
which stores user information and stuck in the root of your home directory.
If you do an:
ls
in the terminal these files are not shown. They aren't shown in the finder. You have to do a
ls -a
Try it in your home directory in a terminal:
ls -la
How many of these . directory / files do you have?
I have a lot - but then I use a lot of *nix type apps. They don't get removed if I remove the associated application, for example, Eclipse IDE.
OSX application removal is not perfect, not by a long shot. A lot of OSX applications don't have uninstall applications so your going to have a lot of redundant files / directories hanging around... just like in windows.. unless you remove them yourself - which is time consuming. However, fortunately under OSX you tend not to get the dependency of shared DLLs etc like in windows - there's a lot of shared libraries in say, iLife or the Pro Apps.
The registry in windows is bad and hideous. It gets bloated up and you either use a cleaner app or trim it manually to reduce the size.
The subtle thing is that the ad indirectly points one of the major flaws of Windows: The more software you install, the slower the system gets, on OSX adding apps does not have any effect on system performance. (This is a reason why Windows comes in so many versions)
So, the free added software on Windows does expose a major flaw in the OS.
This is the message the ad points out, just a comic but real form of educating the ignorant. 'You have come to a sad realization.' as another ad puts it. Many times painful, nevertheless true.
The omni stuff was still a free version of their basic software last time I checked. I've been using it since I got my MBP a year ago and it still works like a full version 
Most of the stuff Apple included was plain out useful. I doubt most people would say that iWork and Office 2004 are pointless attempts to confuse you and force you to spend money- the fact is that a huge portion of mac users DO need either Office or iWork.
Most of the stuff Apple included was plain out useful. I doubt most people would say that iWork and Office 2004 are pointless attempts to confuse you and force you to spend money- the fact is that a huge portion of mac users DO need either Office or iWork.
my least favorite
I haven't bought a new dell in five years or a new mac in two so I may not know what I'm talking about. But I thought trial software was kind of a plus. You know, software for test drives. There might be a few that you like that you hadn't heard of. I think that would be true of me. I haven't tried any new PC software since i got my Dell 5 years ago. My PC is at work so mostly i just work on it but sometimes I'll want to do something with a photo or something. if you don't like it you don't have to use it. I suppose if your hard drive starts getting full you can delete it. It can't be that hard. Meanwhile, Apple has office and iWork installed as trials too. And its a good thing, since AppleWorks doesn't come on a new mac anymore it doesn't come with a WP and as long as you have to buy one you might as well test drive a couple. This was my least favorite ad too. I got a big kick out of the one that came out just a few days ago with the cart.
I haven't bought a new dell in five years or a new mac in two so I may not know what I'm talking about. But I thought trial software was kind of a plus. You know, software for test drives. There might be a few that you like that you hadn't heard of. I think that would be true of me. I haven't tried any new PC software since i got my Dell 5 years ago. My PC is at work so mostly i just work on it but sometimes I'll want to do something with a photo or something. if you don't like it you don't have to use it. I suppose if your hard drive starts getting full you can delete it. It can't be that hard. Meanwhile, Apple has office and iWork installed as trials too. And its a good thing, since AppleWorks doesn't come on a new mac anymore it doesn't come with a WP and as long as you have to buy one you might as well test drive a couple. This was my least favorite ad too. I got a big kick out of the one that came out just a few days ago with the cart.
I do like these adverts but they are losing their impact.
This one was quite funny but like many of the others it is an imperfect analogy. I built my PC myself and just installed XP... Clean...
This one was quite funny but like many of the others it is an imperfect analogy. I built my PC myself and just installed XP... Clean...
Email is good, but too much of it becomes pita... just like trial apps!
Trial app spam!
Trial app spam!
I wish Apple would push mac sales based on more than just bloody iLife!
I don't use any part of iLife i think its cack. I know for some users it's useful but lets get real, if i was a potential switcher i would need more than iLife as a reason to swap.
Pushing macs as fun and cool is annoying....and when i went for a job at an apple store thats the kind of people they want....kool quirky people that know **** all about macs!
Come on apple lets see mac ads based on the lack of registry, the way you will never have to reinstall on a regular basis to maintain a stable snappy OS. The built in communication facilities, the price of the machines the fact it really doesn't have one mouse button etc!
I don't use any part of iLife i think its cack. I know for some users it's useful but lets get real, if i was a potential switcher i would need more than iLife as a reason to swap.
Pushing macs as fun and cool is annoying....and when i went for a job at an apple store thats the kind of people they want....kool quirky people that know **** all about macs!
Come on apple lets see mac ads based on the lack of registry, the way you will never have to reinstall on a regular basis to maintain a stable snappy OS. The built in communication facilities, the price of the machines the fact it really doesn't have one mouse button etc!
****! It's Mr. Creosote!
yep, the bit that you'd expect from mr Creosote, b$@ing all over Mac has been edited out...
Macs only come with software you want? *cough* *cough* Nanosaur *cough*
Although I do get the general point.
The actor who plays the PC is just phenomenal as that character. He does a really great job.
"This American Life" featured a funny story about him last week on the episode "Nice Work If You Can Get It."
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=201671138&s=143441&i=15381155
These ads continue to make me laugh, but to those non Mac users do they really work? These ads really tell you nothing of how good macs are, not showing and of there really good features. Owell they're catchy i guess. Dunno how much they work
You have some points, but I think Apple doesn't delete those files in the end because they don't equal diddley-squat for hard drive usage. If you ever reinstall the application you have a place to restart from also. I personally don't really see it as much of a problem.
But there would be no loss if Apple implemented an Uninstall application to sit next in Install.
Since the mac comes with trial software, too, I feel Apple can't make fun of that. It's the unwanted software - stuff that you get whether you ask for it or not - that's bugging people. For me on a Mac that's iLife.
Steffen
The problem isn't the hard drive. The problem is RAM. When the system already comes with too little RAM by default, things only get aggravated by "Trial" software that automatically loads into the system tray and/or run processes in the background. You end up with people buying new computers that are as slow as molasses out of the box, and they can't figure out why.
If companies like Dell were a little more judicial about what they put on which machines, this apple advertisement wouldn't even exist.
Exactly.
The main points are:
- it's way harder for the average user to delete files and software on crappy PCs, period...even if Macs have some leftovers in the App Support folder, that's ONE easily accessible folder;
- let's not EVEN mention the stupid thing called Registry in PCs;
- the amount of preinstalled crap on PCs cannot be compared with the situation in Macs. With my iMac G5 I got mainly FULL and USEFUL programs such as World Book, AppleWorks, Nanosaur, iWork demo and Office demo, nothing else;
- NONE of the above runs in the background, compared to the situation in crappy PCs;
- NONE of the above bloats your desktop or (sic) taskbar with icons.
Not to mention the suggestion by some poster that you can "easily" reinstall your OS in PCs...come on, I buy my machine to use it...I've NEVER reinstalled my OS on my iMac...that's why I will stay with it, thank you very much.
p.s.: EXCELLENT ad, second only to the Security one...
Macs come with very limited trial software (just office). Have you ever seen a pc when its powered on for the first time. I've seen less advertisement on a racing car. These pc vendors think that your pc (yes its yours you bought it) is their own personal marketing platform to make money from the likes of aol and such.
If you uninstall trial software on mac very little is left behind (maybe a preference or two). On a pc when you uninstall you aren't really uninstalling, either the whole app or parts of the app is still around. And don't even get me started on registry breadcrumbs left behind. Trial software on a pc just slows down your pc even when its uninstalled.
Just my little rant on trial software on pcs.
If you uninstall trial software on mac very little is left behind (maybe a preference or two). On a pc when you uninstall you aren't really uninstalling, either the whole app or parts of the app is still around. And don't even get me started on registry breadcrumbs left behind. Trial software on a pc just slows down your pc even when its uninstalled.
Just my little rant on trial software on pcs.
I think some people might be missing the point of the comparison here.
When we're talking about bloatware here, it's not so much about things that just take up hard drive space, etc.
On the PC side, something like the MS Office trial isn't necessarily so annoying.
What people are talking about here are all the other annoying programs and services that are installed on top of the standard Windows install; trial programs, little custom services, stuff like the WildTangent game stuff on HP's, etc.
This stuff IS annoying and does negatively affect the Windows experience. All you have to do is look through forums to see tons of people asking how to remove all this crap, how to do a clean install, etc.
That's another big area here; with a number of PC's, you CAN'T easily do a clean install of just Windows by itself. With Sony, for example, you can only make recovery disks that recover the original Windows installation plus all the extra crap. They make it pretty hard to do a real clean Windows install (it's possible, but requires getting a bunch of drivers yourself and doing a clean Windows install with another Windows disk, not the one Sony makes available).
At least on the Mac side, if you buy a new Mac, you can easily use the included CD to do a completely fresh install and uncheck any elements you don't want (Office trial version, iWork trial, iLife, etc.).
On the PC, these often aren't just things that take up space on the hard drive; they're also programs that start up in the background when you boot up, dramatically adding to the startup times (I was just in a Circuit City yesterday and overheard a customer asking why the HP laptop they were looking at was taking so long to boot to the desktop and actually become useable).
The Circuit City guy told this customer about how they offer one of their special "Firedog" services just for the sole purpose of removing all the crapware, etc.
Some companies are better about this than others; but the vast majority of PC's being sold today, especially the consumer models, are loaded with this crap.
Microsoft themselves refer to these programs as "craplets" and don't like them either, because people associate the bad user experience with Windows itself, and don't realize it is the extra junk.
This isn't about things like the MS Office trials on PC's, or bundled stuff like MS Works which are not specifically annoying, and also can be easily removed. It's not even about something like the 30-day trial of Norton Antivirus, which at least on the PC serves a useful purpose.
It's about all the other irritating trialware and crapware that is loaded on there.
-Zadillo
When we're talking about bloatware here, it's not so much about things that just take up hard drive space, etc.
On the PC side, something like the MS Office trial isn't necessarily so annoying.
What people are talking about here are all the other annoying programs and services that are installed on top of the standard Windows install; trial programs, little custom services, stuff like the WildTangent game stuff on HP's, etc.
This stuff IS annoying and does negatively affect the Windows experience. All you have to do is look through forums to see tons of people asking how to remove all this crap, how to do a clean install, etc.
That's another big area here; with a number of PC's, you CAN'T easily do a clean install of just Windows by itself. With Sony, for example, you can only make recovery disks that recover the original Windows installation plus all the extra crap. They make it pretty hard to do a real clean Windows install (it's possible, but requires getting a bunch of drivers yourself and doing a clean Windows install with another Windows disk, not the one Sony makes available).
At least on the Mac side, if you buy a new Mac, you can easily use the included CD to do a completely fresh install and uncheck any elements you don't want (Office trial version, iWork trial, iLife, etc.).
On the PC, these often aren't just things that take up space on the hard drive; they're also programs that start up in the background when you boot up, dramatically adding to the startup times (I was just in a Circuit City yesterday and overheard a customer asking why the HP laptop they were looking at was taking so long to boot to the desktop and actually become useable).
The Circuit City guy told this customer about how they offer one of their special "Firedog" services just for the sole purpose of removing all the crapware, etc.
Some companies are better about this than others; but the vast majority of PC's being sold today, especially the consumer models, are loaded with this crap.
Microsoft themselves refer to these programs as "craplets" and don't like them either, because people associate the bad user experience with Windows itself, and don't realize it is the extra junk.
This isn't about things like the MS Office trials on PC's, or bundled stuff like MS Works which are not specifically annoying, and also can be easily removed. It's not even about something like the 30-day trial of Norton Antivirus, which at least on the PC serves a useful purpose.
It's about all the other irritating trialware and crapware that is loaded on there.
-Zadillo
yep, the bit that you'd expect from Mr. Creosote .....
"Put all the trial software in a bucket-- with the eggs on top. And don't skimp on the pate' ".
Thank you for that link!! I had heard the end of it on the radio, and couldn't find it.
swingerofbirch
macrumors 68040
I get what they are saying--you definitely have more control on the Mac, in terms of just being able to throw away the couple of trial programs that come with a Mac into the garbage. On the PC, there are often multiple programs installed to handle one thing, like a wireless connection, or competing antivirus programs running at the same time by default.
However, to be entirely fair, you could buy a PC without ANY software (no OS), or buy one with Linux, which is not something you could do with a Mac. However, I realize that they are referring to the majority of home PC buyers, but like I said, just to be fair.
However, to be entirely fair, you could buy a PC without ANY software (no OS), or buy one with Linux, which is not something you could do with a Mac. However, I realize that they are referring to the majority of home PC buyers, but like I said, just to be fair.