The part about there not being a point in waiting is flat out wrong. Please read post #44 for clarification.
Lets give up the whole fact vs. presumption thing. Beosound and I think April, BURTON thinks late June-September. We will see soon enough.
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New imac on March 7?
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The part about there not being a point in waiting is flat out wrong. Please read post #44 for clarification.
Lets give up the whole fact vs. presumption thing. Beosound and I think April, BURTON thinks late June-September. We will see soon enough.
please, tell me... where did i say anything about june-september????
I said late april...
I'M SOOOO CONFUSED!!!!!
For this to be indisputable, you'd need to have knowledge of purchase orders and delivery dates for component parts from Intel and a GPU manufacturer at the very least. It's only a guess. A likely one, perhaps, but nothing more than that.
You'd probably do well as a financial analyst; they make quite a lot of money making guesses and presenting them as "fact".
of course you are, quoting out of context...
like the last thing: 'in a way, presumptions are the fact'
words or statements without context dont mean anything and are prone to twisting and spinning, are you a journalist?
and what if im right? what if my guesses are 10 out of 10? is it then a fact and indisputable?
No, you are trying to say that your presumptions ARE facts... it doesn't work that way guy, if you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you. You can't swap out the word presumption for the word fact... they are not synonymous... Just look at your next sentence here. You said "FOR ME, it's a fact"... then you say, "in the end, it's a presumption" so which is it? a fact or presumption?? Oh you don't know what either word means.. go ahead and go back and read what I posted for you
Nothing here is hard for me to understand. I know that I predict iMacs will come out in April... just like you do. The difference is I understand that this is a PREDICTION, a PRESUMPTION, a GUESS, a THOUGHT, an OPINION, etc. (see what I did there... those words are all synonymous, words you can swap for one another. Again.. FACT and PRESUMPTION are NOT!!) As soon as you realize that even if in you think they will come out in April (which I agree with for the 800th time), that does not make it a fact. Something you THINK will happen, can NOT be presented as a fact, no matter how much you may want it to be.
I've been on topic guy... why don't you stop spam posting your opinions and then arguing them as fact. Pretty sure an 8 year old could tell you that your opinion is not a fact.
Maybe this will help you understand. I'll take your sentence and change it...
"for me, september imacs are the fact, its happening (its indisputably the case)"
so just because I said "for me" does that make it a fact? No, it's an opinion, address it as such and you will stop making yourself look like a complete fool with absolutely no understanding of the basic english language.
jesus man, you must be pretty narrow-minded.
yes, im saying my predictions are FACTS for me because they are happening. but more valid term would be PRESUMPTION because PRESUMPTION IS A SITUATION THAT IS REGARDED AS A FACT BUT HASNT YET HAPPENED (read the link i posted above). it really cant be simpler. and you can think of it as a fact/wish/opinion etc, i didnt ask you.
for a lot of people here, ipad 3 on march 7th is a fact. but as i said, better term would be a presumption
and prediction =/= presumption =/= guess =/= opinion, if you wanna play that game
are you an english teacher?
a yeah, you're the one constantly griping on that fact thing, so look at the thread title, then look in the dictionary what that mean, then look up what on topic means and try to summarize it all in your head, or on paper if you wish. but dont forget to use your dictionary
please, tell me... where did i say anything about june-september????
I said late april...
Summer is something like June 21st through September 22nd.
But will Ivy Bridge be the ONLY difference between the current iMacs and the 2012 iMacs? I certainly don't know. I got my iMac in 2007, so I am really looking forward to replacing it, but I'm willing to wait and see if there are any surprises with the new ones. It's likely that I will only have to wait 2-3 months at most, and my old iMac seems to be holding out just fine. Since it's not an emergency, it seems silly not to wait a couple more months to get the latest and greatest.
If my computer died in the meantime, I'd probably borrow my husband's MBP and make him use his Mac Pro until the new iMacs were out. Sometimes, you just don't have the option to wait, but if I can, I will.
The whole sandy bridge vs ivy bridge is for me kinda meh.
We will see some small increase in performance clock for clock. Also it will probably be cooler/less tdp thanks to 22nm. Now if this was a custom desktop PC the whole 22nm is more interesting because that often results in higher/bigger over clocks etc.
The big thing for me in this update, is the gpu which is hopefully a scaled down version of a 78xx or 77xx desktop card, which uses 28nm. And for those who have read reviews about the radeon 7000 series, they over clock like crazy, so hopefully the mobile variants do as well.
But the biggest reason I'm waiting is because (hopefully) there will be some sort of redesign (all though its likely not going to happen). Remove the chin etc, fix dust issues and so on.
And to answer the OP question. No. You will definitely not see a iMac announcement on a i device conference. Makes little to no sense unveiling two products at one event, since apple wants their attention on the iPad. All we mac users get is splash on the front homepage of apple.com when it gets updated. If not something "mind blowing", then maybe it will get mentioned at a press conference, but anyway u want hear about it on the 7th of march.
We will see some small increase in performance clock for clock. Also it will probably be cooler/less tdp thanks to 22nm. Now if this was a custom desktop PC the whole 22nm is more interesting because that often results in higher/bigger over clocks etc.
The big thing for me in this update, is the gpu which is hopefully a scaled down version of a 78xx or 77xx desktop card, which uses 28nm. And for those who have read reviews about the radeon 7000 series, they over clock like crazy, so hopefully the mobile variants do as well.
But the biggest reason I'm waiting is because (hopefully) there will be some sort of redesign (all though its likely not going to happen). Remove the chin etc, fix dust issues and so on.
And to answer the OP question. No. You will definitely not see a iMac announcement on a i device conference. Makes little to no sense unveiling two products at one event, since apple wants their attention on the iPad. All we mac users get is splash on the front homepage of apple.com when it gets updated. If not something "mind blowing", then maybe it will get mentioned at a press conference, but anyway u want hear about it on the 7th of march.
Either your indisputable fact has been disputed, or your presumption has been challenged..
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-5...ntel-ivy-bridge-chip-delayed/?tag=mncol;posts
that article is referring to dual core ivy bridge chips, which would be used in computers like the macbook air, and intel "ultrabooks"
quad core ivy bridge processors (like those we will see in the iMacs) are still on track as last reported by intel.
It should be noted that not only the summary of that article says "slated for the next crop of ultrabooks," but also, the Fin. Times article too says "Ivy Bridge – the 22nm processor set to succeed Sandy Bridge in notebooks this year."
It is quite possible we could be talking about the rumors from about two weeks ago that mobile dual-core IB chips are delayed while desktop quad-cores are on track for April.
Either way, we can be sure it isn't March 7th because reports of supply constraints would be coming out by this point.
Edit: The article on the front page also seems to suspect that this applies to mobile CPUs rather than desktop ones.
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There is an enormous amount of uncertainty. But I found it notable that:
- This was about Intel talking to Financial Times (and not some third hand report)
- Nothing in the conversation between Intel and FT seemed to distinguish between desktop and portable, quad-core and dual-core, etc. The discussion about quad-core vs dual-core was tacked on in a later edit of the report, seemingly to reflect prior rumors.
Is it possible that desktop quad cores could still be released to Apple in April? Sure. Would I bet the mortgage on it? Absolutely not.
- This was about Intel talking to Financial Times (and not some third hand report)
- Nothing in the conversation between Intel and FT seemed to distinguish between desktop and portable, quad-core and dual-core, etc. The discussion about quad-core vs dual-core was tacked on in a later edit of the report, seemingly to reflect prior rumors.
Is it possible that desktop quad cores could still be released to Apple in April? Sure. Would I bet the mortgage on it? Absolutely not.
that article is referring to dual core ivy bridge chips, which would be used in computers like the macbook air, and intel "ultrabooks"
quad core ivy bridge processors (like those we will see in the iMacs) are still on track as last reported by intel.
well, i hope it does. in this article only notebooks are mentioned, but it still sounds undefined and general:
'Mr Maloney said the adjustment was not caused by a lack of demand but came because of the new manufacturing process needed to make the smaller chips.'
macrumors article also mentions 'notebooks' so it is probably only regarding notebooks (those previous rumors about dual core ivy bridge)
i hope cebit (starting on the 6th of march) will give us firm release dates - there was also a rumor regarding cebit and release of ivy bridge there, its been posted here in this thread.
^^ but i thought it was a "FACT" new iMacs would be released in April?
Getting a little scared and backing down on your claim?
Getting a little scared and backing down on your claim?
^^ but i thought it was a "FACT" new iMacs would be released in April?
Getting a little scared and backing down on your claim?
How does your foot taste?
no, it was a presumption, like i noted it earlier.
and yes, its still a fact to me, based on this morning articles
but if you dont want to let go, answer me this, maybe ill be enlightened:
if cebit starts on march 6th, is that a fact? considering it hasnt happened yet... or is there another word in english language that would mean 'something that hasnt happened yet but it definitely will? like a day 6 days from today is sunday. how do you call that? closest thing i found was presumption. is there another, 'better' word?
but you definitely use the word fact to firmly.
fact has a lot of meanings:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fact
no, i use the word FACT for exactly what it is... an indisputable event or occurrence.
A macrumors release or announcement date is not a fact until the event occurs. Unless I'm just mistaken and you somehow got on Apple's payroll, and know their release schedule and upcoming product announcements?
Sunday occurs on the same day every week, so yes, it's a fact (for those in certain countries/time zones) that sunday is 6 days away. Stop using stupid analogies to try to make your case. Saying "sunday is 6 days away, that's a fact." And saying "apple will release iMacs in April because that's just what I think, so it's a fact" are not even close to the same thing...
If you can tell me how Quarter 2 2012 translates DEFINITIVELY to April 2012 I'll rest my case. Last I checked April is part of Q2, but not the ONLY month....
I don't know where you studied English, but I'd ask for my money back... you have the absolute dumbest responses ever, just proves your lack of any kind of general knowledge. Good day.
A macrumors release or announcement date is not a fact until the event occurs. Unless I'm just mistaken and you somehow got on Apple's payroll, and know their release schedule and upcoming product announcements?
Sunday occurs on the same day every week, so yes, it's a fact (for those in certain countries/time zones) that sunday is 6 days away. Stop using stupid analogies to try to make your case. Saying "sunday is 6 days away, that's a fact." And saying "apple will release iMacs in April because that's just what I think, so it's a fact" are not even close to the same thing...
If you can tell me how Quarter 2 2012 translates DEFINITIVELY to April 2012 I'll rest my case. Last I checked April is part of Q2, but not the ONLY month....
I don't know where you studied English, but I'd ask for my money back... you have the absolute dumbest responses ever, just proves your lack of any kind of general knowledge. Good day.
i havent studied english. youre language is pretty easy to learn, especially when a lot of the words are based on latin words
so what about cebit? it isnt once a week. so it starts on march 6th and that is a fact or?
if i knew apple release schedule, then it would be a fact? it hasnt happened yet...
from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fact , dictionary you love so dearly
it could be something believed to be true (mistaken facts)
it could be an alleged piece of information
it could be an information based on real occurrences etc.
the analogies are perfect, you just dont know what im aiming at.
bottom line, im inclined to think that you really dont know youre language as good as you think you do, but in the end nobody does.
the sole purpose of language is to transfer thoughts from one person to another, which i have obviously failed.
what i've been meaning to tell you is that based on available resources, april imacs are the fact. later on, i corrected myself and used the word presumption, which is exactly a word ive been looking for. so, based on available resources, imacs in april are a fact -> presumption. thats why i constantly read this forum and tech sites to gather more resources
in my head, and of course a lifetime of conversations and arguments with people, what i have been thinking and saying here just had to be crystal clear, jesus christ we are on forum posting rumors, reading buyers guide. i just wanted to state that on the available resources, april imacs are the fact (i noted that resources here, you definitely know them) because you'll be surprised how many people would come to totally different conclusions based on that resources, people really tend to think that apple regularly releases its updates 5 months after hardware release, not to mention other equally apsurd reasoning and conclusions, and i definitely thought that you're one of them (like i previously mentioned), wasnt the case, thats why i went so strongly about it, with the word fact, which i in the end replaced with the word presumption because its more fitting.
but i must say, sadly, and i have been defending you guys all the time, people mock me etc., that all those prejudices about americans being the most stupid nation on the world and having one of the worst educational system might not be so wrong. believe me, i havent met one person that doesnt believe in that prejudice. im all against prejudices but maybe they definitely have some ground, they wouldnt exist out of thin air.
but the funniest thing is, facts can be wrong, and they often are.
i wanna copy a qoute from george orwell, it could be of help to you, if you understand the meaning:
'Dont you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end, we shall make thought crime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten...'
good day to you too, sir
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Huh? What? I don't even... wow.
You haven't studied the language.. native speakers are telling you how we actually use it.. and you choose to insult the educational system. Wow.
"fact" contains a stronger connotation than "believe to be true". It's closer to "known to be true". They can occasionally be shown to be false, but then they just stop being facts. They're expected to have solid backing by verifiable sources.
We can use "fact" to refer to the future scheduled date of a conference, because the conference organizer has stated this to be the case.
We don't use "fact" to mean the expected release date of an iMac if the sources are the macrumors buyers guide (which is not, and not meant to be, a decisive predictive tool) and various conflicting CPU and GPU rumors. There are better words we use to more accurately convey the flimsiness of the evidence on which our conclusion is based -- guess and prediction are the best candidates, and presumption could also apply (but is still a bit strong for the context).
Watch English footballers interviewed after a game to see how educated they are. Real men of the people:
"Er, yes mate, we was not so good like, today, coz we was brilliant last week (scratching ear with finger) but all the lads is gutted we never scored like, coz we done better last week."
Then watch an Italian, Spanish, French, American or German opponent or team-mate interviewed in English after the same game. Their English is so much better it invariably makes the locals sound like the thick dolts they are.
finally, thank you for your sensible arguments
apparently, you could use word fact a bit more loosely. in my language word fact is used to imply that something is known (not necessarily provable), but that could mean a lot of things, also something believed to be true. couple of thousands of years ago, fact was that the earth was flat. also, for more than two billion people the existence of god and his son (walking on earth 2 thousand years ago) is a fact. so yeah, term fact can be used loosely.
but i still think, based on resources i have - buyers guide (telling me imacs are overdue); ivy bridge (april 8th, now 29th); amds end of march, early april; nvidia early april; dual cores delayed (no macbook air, possibly no macbook pros) - that imacs are next in line for a refresh, and that they are due in april. given the context (secretive tech world, especially apple and amd) this could easily pass as a presumption, if things follow 'natural course of events'. after all, its all we got. why are people here so scared of being confident. im always reading 'theres no way of knowing, nobody knows, etc.' people are so scared to make an educated guess and stand behind it. so what if youre wrong? who cares, no lives and money depends on it. or maybe they are just scared of being disappointed?
the thing is, native speakers dont necessarily know their language. they use it on day to day basis, but the problem is who knows what that 'day to day' contains, if you know what i mean. and using language involves a brain also
make no mistake, i didnt insult anybody, i just mentioned 'the facts' about the thoughts of many people. those are not my thoughts, but being here on this forum a couple of years now, im more and more inclined to actually understand why do people think and feel that way. but i am and always will be against any kind of generalizations. and yes, people (im not talking about teenagers here but highly educated ones) actually and deeply think americans are below average in intelligence overall and lack general knowledge - often regarded as 'fachidioten', an german language term for people who know only what they are interested in or do for work, nothing else.
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I have a 2006 iMac (original intel... except not xD)
I figure I've gone 5-6 years, and since I plan on doing that again I'm going to want the absolute best. I'm going to put some amazing SSDs in the iMac, and I want USB 3.0, b/c I will otherwise be shouting at my computer 3 or 4 years from now.
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Heh forgot to mention, you can upgrade the CPU relatively easily, which also lets you upgrade the HD relatively easily.
I now have a 2.0 GHz core 2 duo snagged from some... something, and a 1 TB 7200 RPM HD. I'm good to go until the iMacs arrive, be it summer, spring or tomorrow.
I made a guide which I posted about on this forum somewhere.
You can go with "believed to be true" if there's some kind of general consensus. It used to be a fact that the sun orbited the earth.. and now it's a fact that the earth orbits the sun. A single person can't make "believed to be true" into "fact" all on his own though.. there needs to be a large population with the same view.
I still dislike this use of the term.. other words exist to convey "belief", so I'd prefer not to sully the word that's supposed to mean "absolutely true".
Again, I throw out the buyer's guide. It's good advice for someone who's interested in buying, but it has all the predictive power of a magic 8 ball. At best, it can tell you what Apple would like to do, all else being equal.
Based on the various & conflicting hardware rumors, I would now find an April iMac to be very surprising. May or even June seem more likely. Though I wish this were not the case, as my tax return is about to hit my account...
But I cannot be confident in my prediction, because there is no solid evidence on which to base the claim. I'd feel much better if we got some analyst reports about actual factory yields for the CPUs and GPUs.
i hope things will be more clear when cebit starts on march 6th
and there's never solid evidence, it wouldnt be called a prediction then, right?
i guess i was right all along. why do people keep putting months between hardware and apple refreshes? if ivy bridge is released on april 29th (IF) why do you think imac will come out in june?
because of the overdue of the imacs (buyers guide), apple WILL release them as soon as possible (ivy bridge release). that was a fact/presumption i was talking about all along. they have ivy bridge imac with amd/nvidia already.
and what conflicting rumors are you talking about?
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Personally I'm having a hard time deciphering the Ivy Bridge rumors. One source seems to be pretty definitive about only mobile processors, or only dual core processors, being delayed.. and another source seems to imply that the entire line is delayed and it being due to 28nm manufacturing issues. Yes, CeBIT should clear that up for us. I hope.
I don't personally believe it will be months between architecture availability and new hardware. There have been instances of that in the past, which is what some people point to, but there were different reasons for those delays. Given the time since last refresh, I expect Apple will be launching as soon as they possibly can. It's just a matter of when it will be possible.
Based on available information, it just seems like it would be a minor miracle for Apple to put all the components together and launch in April. 1st week of May seems a logical target if their desktop chips come out on April 29; and later (like June) if the entire Ivy Bridge line is in fact delayed. And this all assumes GPU availability, of which I have heard very little. An April release would almost certainly mean Apple bought up the entire initial shipments of the chips.
yes, nvidia and amd rumors are very sparse, but there are a couple, if you want i could find them for you, and they are 'confidently' pointing late march mass availability for amd and early april for nvidia. amd is pretty much true because they already released a part of their line, and when hd 7870 hits the shelves we should also see 7970M. but nvidia is another story. they haven released anything new (kepler) yet. the rumor is that they are targeting early april (first week, when ivy bridge supposed to come out) and will release mobile parts first. also, a couple of days ago there was a rumor that kepler is already shipping to oems. there is a consensus that nvidia with its kepler architecture is an absolute winner this year in mobile segment (imac). i think apple will indeed use nvidia (gtx 670m, or gtx680m). i also think that gpus wont be the 'bottleneck' in release dates, nvidia and amd will be ready, the only thing we're waiting for is ivy bridge.
but the question arises, what does 28th of april means? it could mean 'in stores' or just availability (intel allowing oems to release their products, reviewers to release their reviews). there is also a rumor that intel will release ivy bridge in large numbers, 50% more than sandy bridge, which means they are already starting the production. who knows, maybe apple will be able to release them earlier. apple probably gets a boner when releasing something before the others.
also, just to mention it again, there was a rumor of intel announcement on cebit (6th), it could mean ivy bridge, or new xeons