New Mac Pro Deliveries Begin, European Orders 'Assembled in China'

[konqerror]

I thought the law states that the majority of the product has to be assembled in country of origin to apply the label. So like, all the individual pieces can be built all over the world but they all have to be assembled in the US to get the label. Correct, or no? I'm curious...

The standard is "substantially transformed". Dell went through this, things like loading firmware and software count, which is a trick because that requires very little labor. On the other hand, Intel CPUs are originally fabricated in the US ("diffused") which is a substantial chunk of change.

https://www.usitc.gov/elearning/hts/media/2017/SubstantialTransformation.pdf

36 pages on the topic: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/plain-language/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard.pdf

My guess is they are both built in China, then some get the case cover(or some other part) removed and shipped to the USA. Then they slap the cover back on, and say "it was assembled in the USA". Car manufactures have been doing this for years.

Nope. If you look at car manufacturers, they ship them as separate parts. Things like mating the engine to the transmission and putting it into the car must be done here. If you look at cars today, the supply chains have all shifted to North America. It's cheaper to make them under NAFTA in Mexico and Canada instead of Europe and Japan.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I wonder if there will be a preference in the preowned market for ones made in one location or the other.

 

[realtuner]

For the price of ownership for one of these things, you should be able to game. My gaming PC can do everything this thing can and plus play RDR2, RE2, Demon Souls.

Ridiculous. A Lamborghini and a Kenworth cost about the same. The Lamborghini will fly around a track but you'd never use it to carry goods from A-B. Different use cases. No professional would rely on a hacked together DIY gaming rig to get work done.

 

[49erRedGold]

No sales tax in Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon.

Ah, did I say every state in the U.S. pays sales tax? I was talking about the U.S as a whole in response to people thinking the U.S prices are far cheaper than outside the U.S and it simply isn't true. I don't know about those other states but I would gladly pay tax rather than live in Oregon. Rain Rain Rain Rain Rain Rain. No Thanks! 😃

 

[Jerome666]

More likely it's a tax thing. In the US taxes are added after

Yes, but sales taxes in the US are far lower than Britain's VAT. Britain is also a very expensive place to do business. If the British wish to stretch their pound further and improve their lot in life they should kill the VAT and take other measures to make their country a better place to do business. If Britain were a state it would be the poorest state in the union, bases on per capita income. What's worse is that the cost of living in Britain is much higher than in the US. I don't understand why Britons allow their elites to get away with this nonsense.

 

[trekkie604]

I’m 47, not that it matters. My PC is more than capable of A/V. You don’t need Final Cut when Windows has plenty of freeware. YouTubers often use movie maker.

You don't seriously believe Hollywood studios, for which this machine is the targeted market, use freeware do you?

 

[lgjay]

This thing is for movie studios, video-post houses and VFX companies; not for average consumer base.

If anything could make the many who are not the target customers yet still complain about it here feel better, you will see these things start popping up around the Post departments of all the film schools replacing the old dead trash cans. This is as close as you could get to this thing.

 

[satchmo]

Wait, are those 32" iMacs?

 

[49erRedGold]

Doesn't stop there, Consumer protection is better than in the US (Longer standard warranty), so add more $$, Vat/tax is also higher in the EU, plenty of other reasons why it's cheaper in the US.

Consumer protection laws outside the U.S are not Warranties. The U.S. has what's called a Lemon Law. It's the same as Consumer Law outside the U.S. If a consumer has an issue within the first 6 months of ownership they have to have Apple inspect it and repair it. The repair will be logged into Apple's system. If the consumer continues to have the same issue Apple has to continue to repair it or offer a replacement within the time frame stated by the Consumer Law. If the consumer never brings up this issue within the first 6 months of ownership then UK (or whichever country) Consumer Law does not help them. Once again, it's not a warranty and people need to understand the differences.

 

[Khedron]

And what's wrong with trying to avoid paying tax as much as possible? Everyone in every country that has to pay tax will try to avoid paying as much as possible. I doubt a single human being in this world would be willing to pay as much tax as possible to the government.

What's wrong with trying to steal as much as possible? I doubt a single human being in this world would be willing to pay for every single product they want.

 

[bsbeamer]

No sales tax in Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon.

There was talk of requiring a federal tax on purchases within these states, where businesses claimed those purchases as expenses/deductions. No clue where or how that ended and that's why accountants specializing in tax code will never go out of business. Was basically aimed at those on east coast that would drive to DE. States already recoup this tax on car purchases out of state and were looking to do the same on basically everything else - like electronics and alcohol, which is still largely "illegal" to transport across state lines.

 

[realtuner]

What's wrong with trying to steal as much as possible? I doubt a single human being in this world would be willing to pay for every single product they want.

Following the law isn’t stealing.

 

[zubikov]

11k for a base computer... yikes..

Dell makes a pro workstation configurable up to $170K...and that's with a generous 30% off sale. Pro workstations always cost much more, and Apple just made this type of hardware available to its MacOS users. The prices are pretty much in line with its PC counterparts.

If there's anything to complain about, it's that Epyc chips aren't available for better price/performance.

 

[justperry]

Consumer protection laws outside the U.S are not Warranties. The U.S. has what's called a Lemon Law. It's the same as Consumer Law outside the U.S. If a consumer has an issue within the first 6 months of ownership they have to have Apple inspect it and repair it. The repair will be logged into Apple's system. If the consumer continues to have the same issue Apple has to continue to repair it or offer a replacement within the time frame stated by the Consumer Law. If the consumer never brings up this issue within the first 6 months of ownership then UK (or whichever country) Consumer Law does not help them. Once again, it's not a warranty and people need to understand the differences.

I didn't say warranty is the same as user protection, we do/did get longer warranties because of consumer laws.
Forgot about the lemon Law, still I think consumer protection laws work better in the EU.

 

[daveedjackson]

The base model is not $11k, actually. Plus, for the people this machine is targeted at, it’s actually not as outrageous as everyone says it is. It’s cheaper than some other computers with similar specs, and the build quality and performance are awesome. I wish people would stop complaining about the price, because for people who need this Mac, it’s not bad.

I'm so sick of this attitude. This Mac is built for me and it's EXPENSIVE. money is money. Business or not, it's a cost for ANYONE, yes of course it can be writen off against tax because it's an expense, but it's still a lot of wonga. Performance of this isn't up there for anything really apart from Editing at the moment with Afterburner card. VFX, Motion/Graphics design is a no. The Cinebench score is pretty poor. It's not comparable to a PC Build at half the cost right now. Of course there is the OS and the hardware which is way more visually appealing, but processionals to some extent don't care about the look of a box sitting in another room, or under a desk. It has great performance everywhere else, but then it's a PRO system, and the results in a PRO app are meh. Of course it can all change when proper support comes from other software like Maxon, but for now it's not there. Components are overprices, everyone knows Apple cough Samsung usually RAM is overpriced, and hyper inflated, so if you're silly enough to spend that on the config tool through Apple, then you don't know what you're doing, or you've got too much money not to care.

 

[konqerror]

Consumer protection laws outside the U.S are not Warranties. The U.S. has what's called a Lemon Law. It's the same as Consumer Law outside the U.S. If a consumer has an issue within the first 6 months of ownership they have to have Apple inspect it and repair it. The repair will be logged into Apple's system. If the consumer continues to have the same issue Apple has to continue to repair it or offer a replacement within the time frame stated by the Consumer Law. If the consumer never brings up this issue within the first 6 months of ownership then UK (or whichever country) Consumer Law does not help them. Once again, it's not a warranty and people need to understand the differences.

No, that's completely incorrect. There is no express warranty mandated at the federal level in the US. There are often requirements on consumer goods at the state level on the order of 30 days. If there is no express warranty, there may be one implied by common law.

Apple, like most companies, voluntarily provide a 1 year express warranty. Any warranty provided, if any, must meet certain terms (Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act).

The EU requires a 2 year warranty due to defects present at the time of purchase. This is the consumer law warranty we are talking about. Whereas Apple may provide a 1 year warranty, they cannot override these rights.

EU law also stipulates that you must give the consumer a minimum 2-year guarantee (legal guarantee) as a protection against faulty goods, or goods that don't look or work as advertised. In some countries national law may require you to provide longer guarantees.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/busine...s-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm

 

[az431]

Tim Cook dog and pony show to avoid paying taxes.

And you voluntarily avoid taking any deductions and pay as much in taxes as possible?

Yeah that’s what I thought.

 

[ElectricPotato]

I assume this is a /s...

I hope it is, but you never know. A serious gamer knows a workstation is wasted money. A serious professional knows a gaming rig is wasted time.

To paraphrase another poster's car analogy: Apple created a dump truck with the same badge as their previous pickup. That confused and frustrated people. It doesn't help when others tell the pickup fans they should make do with a sedan because the dump truck wasn't meant for them.

 

[Khedron]

Following the law isn’t stealing.

According to the courts Apple wasn't following the law.

 

[Elitegate]

And this so-called “pro” computer can’t even play RE2 remake or RDR2. Can’t even use it to stream my Twitch show. My gaming rig DESTROYS this pathetic excuse for a computer.

This machine is not meant for us gamers. If you are a gamer, you are better off with a PC.

The Mac Pro is meant for true professionals. Professional Content Creation. Blockbusters, Movies, Music etc... and for that group it's not that expensive. It's more like an investment. It's Professional Equipment that a company needs in order to work and produce digital content. It's not meant for your gaming hobby. Lol.

 

[Trusteft]

So, not only we get the best price here in Europe, we also get the Chinese assembly. Great.

 

[konqerror]

There was talk of requiring a federal tax on purchases within these states, where businesses claimed those purchases as expenses/deductions. No clue where or how that ended and that's why accountants specializing in tax code will never go out of business. Was basically aimed at those on east coast that would drive to DE. States already recoup this tax on car purchases out of state and were looking to do the same on basically everything else - like electronics and alcohol, which is still largely "illegal" to transport across state lines.

Doesn't need a new law, and it is not illegal to transport electronics across state lines. (Purchases subject to excise taxes, namely, tobacco, alcohol and fuel are special cases)

Most states have "sales and use taxes", which means you are legally required to remit tax to your home state if the purchase was across state lines. This applies to things like mail and Internet orders where the tax hasn't been collected.

The thing is most individuals illegally evade this tax, though companies usually comply. In both cases, if you get a tax audit, they will check for this. Companies have to send in sales/use taxes on a regular basis, and most states added a line to personal income tax returns to report this.

https://dor.wa.gov/find-taxes-rates/use-tax

When is use tax due?
Use tax is due if:

• Goods are purchased in another state that does not have a sales tax or a state with a sales tax lower than Washington’s. For example, items you purchase in Oregon that are used in Washington are subject to use tax.

 

[needfx]

Hey! When did they announce the rack-mountable Pro?

View attachment 883115

Rack Pro

 

[wigby]

For the price of ownership for one of these things, you should be able to game. My gaming PC can do everything this thing can and plus play RDR2, RE2, Demon Souls.

You should also be able to skydive with it. What kind of argument are you trying to make? If you're going to call out Apple for overpriced hardware, you picked the headline without understanding the story at all.

 

[coolfactor]

Tim Cook dog and pony show to avoid paying taxes.

Oh, stop. Why is the US government entitled to taxes on money earned overseas? It's not.