New Mac Pro Deliveries Begin, European Orders 'Assembled in China'

[MisterAndrew]

Following the law isn’t stealing.

Says who? There are so many laws and loopholes to get around them. What if there were no laws? What would be considered stealing? I think deceiving people into paying more for something than they should is a form of stealing. Maybe it's not illegal, but it is unethical.

 

[49erRedGold]

No, that's completely incorrect. There is no express warranty mandated at the federal level in the US. There are often requirements on consumer goods at the state level on the order of 30 days. If there is no express warranty, there may be one implied by common law.

Apple, like most companies, voluntarily provide a 1 year express warranty. Any warranty provided, if any, must meet certain terms (Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act).

The EU requires a 2 year warranty due to defects present at the time of purchase. This is the consumer law warranty we are talking about. Whereas Apple may provide a 1 year warranty, they cannot override these rights.

That previous post didn't state anything about a 2 year consumer warranty. I wouldn't have disputed that. The majority here throw the 6 year UK Consumer Law term around as if it actually a 6 year warranty and it's not.

 

[coolfactor]

And this so-called “pro” computer can’t even play RE2 remake or RDR2. Can’t even use it to stream my Twitch show. My gaming rig DESTROYS this pathetic excuse for a computer.

👎 Armchair analyst. Come back after you've actually used one of these.
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Says who? There are so many laws and loopholes to get around them. What if there were no laws? What would be considered stealing? I think deceiving people into paying more for something than they should is a form of stealing. Maybe it's not illegal, but it is unethical.

It's already been proven that that the Mac Pro is of the same or better dollar/performance as other Pro workstations. One could look at the $400 wheels or $1000 display stand and make your claim, but that's still pocket change for the target market.

 

[Sp00k]

Interesting that a product assembled in and shipped from China, costs a UK buyer £2,000 more for the base Mac Pro and XDR Display (with stand) than it does for a US customer.

#Robbed

“
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the base Mac Pro with a pro display and stand costs about £11,000 with VAT included. The Mac Pro in the US costs $12,000, with $800 in tax.
I don’t know how the UK’s economy works so I’m not sure if I’m correct, but that’s what I’ve found.

 

[Mitochris]

Prices quoted in the U.S are shown without tax as opposed to quoted prices outside the U.S are shown with VAT included. The U.S still has to pay sales tax.

I agree, but what is the average sales tax for the US? I think it’s around 7%,no? The base model goes for €6499,-, which is $7243,-. With no discount, what would you pay in the end in the US?

 

[Sp00k]

And this so-called “pro” computer can’t even play RE2 remake or RDR2. Can’t even use it to stream my Twitch show. My gaming rig DESTROYS this pathetic excuse for a computer.

The Mac Pro is not made for you, child

 

[thejadedmonkey]

tl;dr - the extent of your computer knowledge is below basic if you think that the lack of gaming ability has any reflection on the usability or overall value of this machine.

A good gaming rig needs CPU power, SSD speed, RAM, and yes, a good 3d rendering card.

That a $5000 computer can't do what a $1000 gaming PC can do is disappointing, to put it mildly. Sure, the Mac Pro might have ECC RAM, or a "Pro" GPU that costs 2x as much for 1/2 the performance, but in the end the facts speak for themselves - a generic gaming PC is going to be more powerful than a $5000 workstation.

 

[konqerror]

A good gaming rig needs CPU power, SSD speed, RAM, and yes, a good 3d rendering card.

That a $5000 computer can't do what a $1000 gaming PC can do is disappointing, to put it mildly. Sure, the Mac Pro might have ECC RAM, or a "Pro" GPU that costs 2x as much for 1/2 the performance, but in the end the facts speak for themselves - a generic gaming PC is going to be more powerful than a $5000 workstation.

Nope. What gaming rig needs 128 GB of RAM? Cause I have some problems where that isn't enough. Conversely, those exact types of problems are hard to get on GPU because GPUs don't have enough RAM so our workstations have the cheapest GPUs.

Even "CPU power" means different things. We have some problems that are hard to parallelize, so we have systems with a few very fast cores. Then other problems parallelize nicely and don't require much RAM bandwidth, so you put those on 56 core systems. Then you have bandwidth-limited problems that are built in between to balance RAM bandwidth and core count.

Then there's other types of big-data problems where datasets are tens to hundreds of terabytes large, so you have arrays of SSD, which means PCIe bandwidth to match.

Gaming is a very specific type of GPU-limited problem. Its RAM, disk and CPU use are nothing compared to other real problems. The Mac Pro, and other workstations and servers have the capability to deal with these problems, and that's why they're more powerful, and a necessary tool, over gaming PCs.

 

[Zdigital2015]

I’m 47, not that it matters. My PC is more than capable of A/V. You don’t need Final Cut when Windows has plenty of freeware. YouTubers often use movie maker.

You need more than Movie Maker and a gaming PC when you are try an to edit, mix, color grade and export deliverables for an actual TV show -

http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/art...urs-erinsborough-high-for-fremantle-australia

 

[dontwalkhand]

And this so-called “pro” computer can’t even play RE2 remake or RDR2. Can’t even use it to stream my Twitch show. My gaming rig DESTROYS this pathetic excuse for a computer.

I’m going to press X for doubt.
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I’m 47, not that it matters. My PC is more than capable of A/V. You don’t need Final Cut when Windows has plenty of freeware. YouTubers often use movie maker.

Movie Maker, LMAO!

 

[2010mini]

11k for a base computer... yikes..

This post makes me think you’ve never seen prices for pro computers.

 

[kaycrystal626]

LOL, Trump will be pissed!

 

[2010mini]

For the price of ownership for one of these things, you should be able to game. My gaming PC can do everything this thing can and plus play RDR2, RE2, Demon Souls.

Really, then why aren’t movie studios and FX companies filled with gaming PCs?

Because they use purpose built pro machines like one Apple is offering.

 

[Zdigital2015]

I agree, but what is the average sales tax for the US? I think it’s around 7%, no? The base model goes for €6499,-, which is $7243,-. With no discount, what would you pay in the end in the US?

Where I live, I pay 7% sales tax, which would put the base model Mac Pro at $6419 USD. The state of Tennessee has the highest currently and the cost there would be $6,567.00.

 

[realtuner]

According to the courts Apple wasn't following the law.

Please show me any court decision that’s a final ruling (as in not under appeal or being challenged).

 

[Somian]

you’ve obviously never used a professional workstation. My first was a Silicon Graphics Indigo system, circa 1995, costing $45,000 in 1995 dollars. $75k equivalent today.

the difference is that in 1995, there were things you could only do with workstations. In 2019, you can do those tings with a MacBook Air as well, just slower, but it works. You can edit 8k video and use 3d packages. Back in the day, you needed a workstation to just render something sensible in the preview.

Again, the question was how is Apple engaging in tax avoidance by having some MacPros assembled in the United States?

Also... Tim Cook never claimed Apple's US assembly contractor never existed before the new MacPro. That was the current president's claim and lie.

Those tariffs are made to be avoided. That’s the whole point of tariffs.
When the fuel tax gets raised for environmental reasons, you could say it’s tax avoidance if people buy electric cars or take the train. Yes, it is, and that’s the intended result of the tax.

In the same way, if there’s a tax on things made overseas, it is there to force companies to not make things overseas. As you can see with the Mac Pro, it works.

 

[Fried Chicken]

I want to see comparison videos; iFixit do a comparison teardown

 

[Digital Skunk]

For the price of ownership for one of these things, you should be able to game. My gaming PC can do everything this thing can and plus play RDR2, RE2, Demon Souls.

I love it !!!! Comedy! Keep it coming! LOL!

This is fairly typical for high end workstations. Just think... you’re working on a feature film expected to do a $150 million at the box office, first billed actor earning $25M... an editing rig for $15k is a huge steal.

True! And while the editor won't make anywhere near that amount of money, or the studios able to predict box office returns, the editor/studio/post house does get paid by the contract/hour. The longer it takes to produce the final edit the less likely that studio/editor/house will be hired again.

And most will have a few projects under his/her belt.

Even on a solo, one-person-band scenario, $12,000 is still rather mid-range. Most still photographers pay more in gear, and a Sony FX9 starts at $12k ... still needs memory cards, tripod, etc.

The static about the price of the current Mac Pro is a bit much. Even the slimmest config (at least the 12 core) is $6500 and is inline with any Xeon system.

Oh, stop. Why is the US government entitled to taxes on money earned overseas? It's not.

This is true. I don't want to get too deep in the tax debate, but the last thing I heard about it regarding Apple was how they had money overseas, but didn't want/have to bring it back to states.

 

[mk_in_mke]

That is just untrue. A base Mac Pro is £5,499, an XDR is £4,599 and the stand is £949. So £11,047 including VAT or £9205.83 excluding VAT. In the US, a base Mac Pro is $5,999, an XDR is $4,999 and the stand is $999. So $11,997 excluding sales tax, which is £8,993.07 meaning that the difference in cost is £212.76 or 2.3%, which is more in line with the small extra profit margin Apple usually adds for markets outside of the US in order to factor in currency value fluctuations.

I would be very surprised if any person in the market for a Mac Pro, neigh, any grown up in the UK, would struggle to understand the concepts of sales tax or VAT so it seems you are just out to complain and be negative for no apparent reason.

they are more than 2 years into Brexit discussion and this is not done yet... and you want them to catch on the simple tax concepts?

 

[SarcasticJoe]

you’ve obviously never used a professional workstation. My first was a Silicon Graphics Indigo system, circa 1995, costing $45,000 in 1995 dollars. $75k equivalent today.

Sure, but that SGI machine, if it was real, was a lot of bespoke hardware plenty capable than anything you could buy off the shelf elsewhere. The new Mac Pro on the other hand doesn't have anything of significance, outside of the OS at least, that isn't completely off-the-shelf hardware.

It's really just an off-the-shelf CPU, and RAM, a PCIe SSD only so bespoke that you can't save money by literally buying replacement and upgrade parts off the shelf, a set of GPUs that again are only so bespoke that you can't save by buying them literally off the shelf in a somewhat off-the-wall case.

SGI workstations from back then came with bespoke CPUs, GPUs and a whole lot of other things with very large development costs. Those machines absolutely had some major development costs to recoup to develop all of that bespoke hardware. All of the genuinely expensive-to-develop components on the Mac Pro are completely off-the-shelf and available to Apple for not much more than the cost of manufacturing said components.

My machine at work (Ryzen Threadripper box with 64GB of ECC DDR4 RAM, Quadro RTX 6000 and 4000 GPUs, 2TB 970 Evo Plus SSD, etc.) basically kicks it's ass in just about every aspect and is cheaper too as soon as you begin bumping up the Mac Pro from it's paltry base spec (8 core CPU, single RX 580 GPU, 32GB of RAM and a 256 GB SSD).

 

[deconstruct60]

Hey! When did they announce the rack-mountable Pro?

.....

Back in June, the same day announced the tower version.

"....
11:43 am: A rack-mount version available as well.
...."
https://www.macrumors.com/2019/06/03/live-from-wwdc-2019/


There was much more 'drama' for MacRumors crowd to ruminate on with the $999 stand. And the base price.

Apple did proceed to 'hide' the rack version from view though after that little tidbit at WWDC. The presentation slide at WWDC said "Coming this Fall". Fairly likely chance they are going miss to Fail by several weeks. (with the Saturday 21st deadline looming and super duper stealth mode all "seasonal Fall" and month delay getting FCC approval (versus the tower unit). They probably were hoping folks would just forget that "Fall" timeline for the rack if they just stopped talking about. )

Besides the case it is probably mostly the exact same parts. So if they can't make enough Tower versions to meet demand, not much good reason to thin out the production even thinner during the initial demand bubble. The Mac Pro delivery dates are sliding back toward the present though ( had pushed out to Dec 31 at one point.). Since, they have factories in China and USA they shouldn't be behind the curve too much longer on the Tower version. ( if keeps sagging rest of this week perhaps the Rack version will make the deadline. )

 

[Toratek]

Sure, but that SGI machine, if it was real, was a lot of bespoke hardware plenty capable than anything you could buy off the shelf elsewhere.

Your snark is unnecessary.

It was a real machine, and came with a very expensive, equally real seat for Pro/Engineer.

 

[marco114]

I wish they'd make a mac pro for the rest of us sub-humans that can't justify that kinda coin.

 

[Baymowe335]

Geography and logistics matter.

Get over it.

 

[2010mini]

Your snark is unnecessary.

It was a real machine, and came with a very expensive, equally real seat for Pro/Engineer.

Don’t waste your breath. Some people seem to think the market this is intended for has the time to build their own machines. They don’t realize in that market, companies “upgrade” by buying a new rig to replace the old one. And they buy them in multiples at a time.