New Mac Pro Nearing Release as Apple Advises Technicians How to Place Computer in DFU Mode

[mixel]

It's probably not a good idea to keep any computer for 7 years, unless you're just watching movies on it. I have the first 5K iMac that ever came out, and I can't even watch Youtube on it anymore. The fan just spools up after a minute and the machine goes to sleep. As a first-generation product, it didn't age well. And anything static burns into the screen after hours, and it stays burned in for days. I can assure you the latest iMac is nothing like that. I haven't even heard the fan yet, and I do edit 4K video and run VMs.

I half agree with this, I have two iMacs that predate retina displays that still run fine under load.

Admittedly one had 2 (maybe 3?) screen replacements (free, thanks apple!) and a DIY fan replacement (Sounds like yours might need similar!), and the other has image retention issues sometimes, the hinge spring exploded so I had to buy a 3d printed clasp, and the HDD part of the fusion drive burnt out so I have to run it from an external thunderbolt SSD..) but they’re both daily drivers, mostly used for photography/image editing. Core performance on both is great, its just everything else that’s cumulatively wonky. 😂 (I keep impeccable care of my machines and they’re kept in a clean environment..)

As much as I like the iMac form factor I wouldnt trust it to stay nice, so I’d not get a modern one either now. They, by design accumulate dust inside with no way to clean it out. Until recently Apple clearly couldn’t even reliably seal the screen and stop dust from depositing between panel layers, despite no other manufactures having this problem. I have a love/hate relationship with these machines.

i‘d probably get a fastish mini now for peace of mind. 😕

 

[lightning finge]

its really not hard to understand.

For a lot of pros, hardware is disposable/"a consumable".

If I've got to get a CAD rendering to a client by the end of the day, else I miss a contract deadline, then the cost of this hardware is merely an overhead. Its a business cost.
Its really not that hard to understand.

If you don't have these sorts of workloads/timescale pressures/contracts then this hardware isn't for you.

#proworkstation

 

[kjohansen]

What I really want to know is what this will do to the iMac Pro. They're already $3600ish on ebay. I think if Apple rejiggered the iMac Pro a bit and had a base price of $3k, that would be the perfect mid level computer.

Except the new iMac Pro is $4999, might as well shell out another thousand and have the Mac Pro

 

[FlyingDutch]

Correct, this isn't for 99% of the people on this website. This is for companies that need major firepower for editing etc. Of course there will still be those regular users who claim they really have to have it. So they'll toss cash at it which is also what Apple banks on.

You are right, but 99% of the people on this website will feel the need to criticize it nevertheless...

 

[crsh1976]

It's really impressive and I think I could get passed the base price and small base SSD size if they were to just swap out that base GPU. Polaris is rough in what is effectively 2020. Even an entry-level RDNA-card like Radeon RX 5500 would be better.

Agreed, the base configuration makes little sense for a workstation anyway (I'm not about the price, the hardware selected is deliberately nonsensical to force buyers to pick the upgrade options).

Even the Vega upgrades are stale at this point (Radeon Pro II Duo uses Vega chips), Apple announced this thing far too early so that Navi wasn't out - but it is now and they should update the spec sheets and offer it.

 

[mixel]

Frankly, you can build your own PC with Ryzen and buy a great Samsung monitor at Best Buy for $1000 altogether and it should be good enough for editing movies and scientific research. I cannot imagine any “professional” who’d need this machine.

Plus, this thing can’t play Resident Evil 2 or Red Dead Redemption 2. Not a pro machine. Fact.

Professionals often need displays much better (and more expensive) than whatever you included in your estimate there. Jeez.

Does not play high end games* would not mean “not pro”, are you confusing Pro with YouTuber? 😂 99% of Pros don’t factor in ability to play games in their hardware choices at all.

*it wI’ll run them fine anyway, in Windows.

 

[FlyingDutch]

So there's this huge space between the Mini and this Pro machine. Why does Apple refuse to manufacture a proper desktop for the masses?

It is called iMac in their vision.
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Not the $6000 base model. It can be built for under $2000. My editing laptop has a faster processor, same RAM, more PCIe SSD storage, and a faster GPU, and it cost under $2000 with upgrades. This machine will be a waste unless you load it up, which will cost way more than any other comparable machine you can buy. Macs are not magic, they use parts that anyone can buy, including other manufacturers.

The target for the Mac Pro don't "built a PC". Your editing laptop doesn't use same components, doesn't have same warranty and support and it runs Windows...
Windows alone makes it useless to me.
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So, how about sharing the parts list, so we can actually do it?

So tired about those silly arguments...

It is just like the " Android has it since..." on iOS threads.

Who the hell cares about it if it runs Windows / Android ?

 

[Billberryjuice]

DFU mode

I can only imagine what that stands for.

 

[Substance90]

I'm interested as to how many people will buy these. They seem laser focused on the hollywood/pro video markets, especially considering the new display. Relatively limited market, even for Apple.

Apple pretty much lost all the 3D people, so from the demanding tasks I guess only video is left.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Agreed, the base configuration makes little sense for a workstation anyway (I'm not about the price, the hardware selected is deliberately nonsensical to force buyers to pick the upgrade options).

Even the Vega upgrades are stale at this point (Radeon Pro II Duo uses Vega chips), Apple announced this thing far too early so that Navi wasn't out - but it is now and they should update the spec sheets and offer it.

They use Vega II GPGPUs on 7nm fabs with each having 32 GB HBM2 full 2048 bit bus width memory data paths. They aren't stale.
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And this is why the argument that PCs are crap because they don't last as long as iMacs is bull.
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The high end consumer level Ryzen processor nowadays are much more powerful than Intel. Ryzen also does support ECC.
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There is a way for Apple to satisfy everyone.

License out MacOS for use in PCs.

That would pretty much shut up all complaints about price.

Never happen. Apple isn't concerned with becoming Microsoft.
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Oh, they’re serious as a heart attack...to some users here a PC (or Mac) is nothing more than a parts list. Imagine if Apple actually tried to cater to that market...thankfully, Apple said no back around 2003-2004.

If Windows OEMs had any brains or guts, they would do the same thing and shift away from tower and gaming PC...it’s simply a never-ending pit of misery, complaints and my GPU is better than yours.

We said no after merging with Apple in Dec '96 and Steve buried the clone market for good.

 

[cgs1xx]

... but where are the new iPad Pros!!?! 😬😑

 

[DinkThifferent]

Let's hope MacRumors will have a free Mac Pro giveaway. 😈

But seriously, I am still not over the fact that they dare to ask $999 for a monitor stand. Why are they so dumb to ask such a ridiculous high price for it? It was the only thing people talked about after that keynote. They should have just raised the price of the monitor $999 and included that stand, then far fewer people would have complained.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

512 GB. Didn't have the money to go 1 TB at the time. It will go up to 2 TB with special LRDIMMs.

Nothing special at all: it's about $2800 for 512 GB RAM in today's aftermarket prices. That's about the same price as a single mid-high GPU, the Quadro RTX 5000, or about the same amount that it costs us to license one seat of the engineering software for a month and a half.

Since you're talking Server memory and Apple is using 12 DIMM Server Memory slots for the Mac Pro.

NEMIX RAM 512GB (4X128GB) DDR4 2666MHZ PC4-21300 8Rx4 1.2V 288-PIN ECC LRDIMM Load Reduced Server Memory KIT Compatible with ASUS KNPA-U16 EPYC 7000 Series Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy NEMIX RAM 512GB (4X128GB) DDR4 2666MHZ PC4-21300 8Rx4 1.2V 288-PIN ECC LRDIMM Load Reduced Server Memory KIT Compatible with ASUS KNPA-U16 EPYC 7000 Series Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

Was $6400 now $3836 for 512GB roughly $11k for 1.5TB between this and the $15K 28 Core / 56 Thread Xeon you can see where most of the maxed out cost derives its price tag.

When Apple announced the machine that memory was $6400 per 512 so you're talking $19.2k.

 

[ksec]

Given Intel has slashed their CPU price by half in many SKUs, I wonder if we could see an adjustment in Mac Pro pricing.

 

[Polynaut]

"Pro" used to be something different. "Quicktime 7 Pro" for example … the super versatile swiss army knife for all video professionals and the legacy Quicktime framework which allowed to work with all kinds of codecs with ease. What do we have today? FCP is practically dead as Pro app, Quicktime is nothing Pro anymore as a video framework. Nowadays they call an iPhone "Pro" when it features an extra lens - or - it's this super powered new Pro Mac at the top of the line. Sure, a nice computer and I bet the new screen is great. But what about the big majority of real Pro users out there, that can't afford such a setup and still need to work "Pro" every day? Criticism that Apple has abandoned its professional customers is still legit. It's simply not solved just by selling expensive hardware …

 

[fokmik]

I bet 99% of the users will not buy the base config , the same applies for 99% people that buy a new car...almost nobody buy the stock car,me included

 

[Marekul]

A 7-year old iMac is nothing like today's top of the line. I think it's enough for most people, as long as you stay really far away from the base model with magnetic storage. Even for backup I use an SSD, no magnetic. You may be an exception, if you're really heavy into 8K, RAW video, 360 stitching, CAD, and so on. But very few of us need a Xeon system with multiple GPUs and a reference grading monitor. Again, you might, and that's great.

It's probably not a good idea to keep any computer for 7 years, unless you're just watching movies on it. I have the first 5K iMac that ever came out, and I can't even watch Youtube on it anymore. The fan just spools up after a minute and the machine goes to sleep. As a first-generation product, it didn't age well. And anything static burns into the screen after hours, and it stays burned in for days. I can assure you the latest iMac is nothing like that. I haven't even heard the fan yet, and I do edit 4K video and run VMs.

It is not a good idea to think you can keep a All-in-One Computer for more than 7 years, even if you are just watching movies on it. It is designed with the priority to look nice on your desk, not to last long or work reliably.

 

[crsh1976]

They use Vega II GPGPUs on 7nm fabs with each having 32 GB HBM2 full 2048 bit bus width memory data paths. They aren't stale.

While certainly not a dud, it's not the latest GPU architecture available - which is the least one would expect for a high-end end product like this one.

 

[sugargliderdude]

i got a feeling this will just appear on the apple website by the end of the month, maybe with an updated MacBook pro 16 inch?

 

[arvinsim]

Apple pretty much lost all the 3D people, so from the demanding tasks I guess only video is left.

In the future, 3D people will be THE video people.
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"Pro" used to be something different. "Quicktime 7 Pro" for example … the super versatile swiss army knife for all video professionals and the legacy Quicktime framework which allowed to work with all kinds of codecs with ease. What do we have today? FCP is practically dead as Pro app, Quicktime is nothing Pro anymore as a video framework. Nowadays they call an iPhone "Pro" when it features an extra lens - or - it's this super powered new Pro Mac at the top of the line. Sure, a nice computer and I bet the new screen is great. But what about the big majority of real Pro users out there, that can't afford such a setup and still need to work "Pro" every day? Criticism that Apple has abandoned its professional customers is still legit. It's simply not solved just by selling expensive hardware …

For Apple, PRO = photography and video editing.

 

[Constable Odo]

I'm interested as to how many people will buy these. They seem laser focused on the hollywood/pro video markets, especially considering the new display. Relatively limited market, even for Apple.

Yeah, it's definitely a limited market but that market is still quite large. It will surely not appeal to most consumers. A high-end i9 iMac is more than enough for me but professionals should really appreciate the power of the Mac Pro. Everyone keeps complaining about the price but corporations or render farms shouldn't have any problem with the cost. Time is money and if the Mac Pro can cut down the time considerably, then it should be worth the cost. I can't wait to see it in action and possibly shut up those people who actually believe Apple can't build a monster machine. I realize Apple has made some mistakes, but to say Apple can't do what other companies can do doesn't make any sense to me. The old cheese-grater was built with a perfect design. Fully modular parts. I was puzzled when the trash-can Mac replaced the cheese-grater as it immediately seemed like a step backward despite the new design. Who the heck wants a circular case. What was Apple thinking?

I know this Mac Pro is going to be a killer machine and should sell very well to professionals who can appreciate the design and power that goes with it. I'm glad Apple went with air-cooling as water-cooling maintenance is a headache. Linus Sebastian thinks he can build a better Mac Pro on the cheap and I want to see him proven wrong.

 

[4jasontv]

My “teenager” has the top of the line 95w TDP desktop Core i9-9900K CPU, has 40GB of DRAM, but can go to 128GB, has a 1TB SSD, can be swapped for a 2TB SSD, has room for an additional 2.5” SSD or 3.5” HDD, can accommodate 4 USB 3.0 devices and high speed TB3 storage along with a second TB3 eGPU. It also has a Vega 48 which is not too shabby at all.

Plenty of people use iMacs in a professional capacity. Please take your silliness somewhere else.

Exactly! Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Boomish69]

How about the fact that the AMD EPYC server CPU's are smoking Intel's top line Xeon's? if Apple were to switch to AMD next year this new Mac Pro will depreciate faster than you can blink, with the growing rise of major companies switching to AMD servers I can't see how Apple can ignore it. There are AMD boards with Thunderbolt now so I don't think that can stop them, the last EPYC rumour was the second generation in the new year could have 4 threads per core..but maybe thats all hype.
It certainly would be great to see a AMD based Mac, some competition might help prices & as much as I'd like a new Mac Pro, all I can think of who in their right mind would buy this overpriced monolith. I kinda hope it's a massive flop and Apple have to re-think again. They could easily make an affordable Mac Pro based on the original 5.1 design.

 

[AngstyKylo]

Is this an attempt to be funny?

The machine is a beast and very capable. If you can't afford it, my advice is to make more money.

Hardly anyone is going to buy this machine out of their own pocket, or at the very least claim it as a business expense for tax breaks. You're right, it's a beast and definitely deserves the 'Pro' moniker.

 

[PickUrPoison]

If you cant judge the seriousness, you probably dont know enough about the hardware. The base 8 core xeon is basically a consumer i9 9900k but with AVX512 and ECC memory support, with no tangible performance benefit over the consumer chip when it comes to clock speed and IPC. The 580X is a rebrand RX580 from AMD that you can buy for $200 and has good for the price compute power but hardly up to snuff for professionals. 256gb SSD regardless of brand/speed is a joke for any computer over $800 today, let alone a $6000 "workstation".

Spoken as someone with apparently little experience with workstations or the reason certain users are more than willing to fork over big bucks for them. Take a look at Xeon workstations from Dell, Lenovo and HP and report back on how overpriced Apple is lol.

Comparing Xeon W-3200 series to any Core model shows many key differences. They are not equivalent in any sense of the word.

The Xeons in the Mac Pro give those who need them up to 28 cores/56 threads, and 1.5TB of RAM. (btw HP charges $112,000 for the 1.5TB config and $56,000 for the 768GB config for their Z8; luckily there’s a 20% discount.)

Is your application constrained by memory bandwidth? The W-3200 series offers six memory channels. That has value. ECC memory exists for a reason, and is important for example when you’ve got hundreds of gigabytes of RAM and are running long simulations.

Certain vectorized workloads benefit greatly from AVX-512 instructions and such increased performance should not be minimized. And if you require a ton of I/O, 64 PCIe lanes can be important. None of those features are available in consumer chips.

Clock speeds and IPC are but two of many factors that determine overall performance for any particular user’s workload. A Radeon Pro 580X is a perfectly appropriate config to purchase, as is a 256GB SSD.

That you don’t understand that, or why some need and will purchase the Mac Pro (or six-figure Intel Xeon—not AMD—workstations from HP and others) is fine, but doesn’t really position you to opine about how others don’t know enough about the hardware.