New Mac Pro upgradability.

[flat five]

one last idea then i'm going to do something else.
..

i'm not convinced it's apple(etcetc) who determines when we replace our products..

like, it's not apple saying "we'll make them buy a new iphone every 1or2 years.. let's design accordingly".. it's the buyers who are deciding to do that.. all apple has to do is make sure they're at the right place right time with the right product and they just catch all the money (of course, marketing is happening continually which perpetuates and/or brings new people into the cycle)

laptops, imacs, minis.. people keep those things for 3-4 years.. (personally, i get a new laptop every 3 years)

macpros.. seemingly more people keep those things for 4-6 years and are way less hesitant when doing things like buying 3 year old used models..


that's us deciding those things.. apple is just catering to the 'rules' we put in play.. it would be stupid of them to try to gestapo us into buying a computer every 3 years (i mean, some people already do that anyway.. and upgrade along the way.. but i'm talking about the rest of the people).. it's smarter for them to play the schedule we decide on and just milk it.

their sales dept? yeah, it's genius.. but not because they're controlling our buying behaviors.. it's because they're exploiting our behaviors.

they know damn well how many hard drives have been sold for macpro1.. that's like a gazillion dollars which slipped through their hands.. this time around, they'll be catching a much larger chunk of our spending habits..

 

[wallysb01]

ok.. but how am i supposed to interpret these things in your eyes?.. maybe i'm not good at reading between the lines or smthng?

No, you need to not cherry pick out a handful of quotes, paste them in out of context and with no link back to original post, thus giving us all the joy of doing the work for you if we actually want to check up on anything.


"Being able to incrementally update/replace is EXACTLY what is being taken away. "

Which was said, I think, as a conditional relating to the possibility of no practical GPU upgrade/replacement.


"In an ideal world Apple would want everyone to fall into the trap of upgrading to a new machine every three years.”

Is this even really in dispute? Of course they would love that. But they have users that need to be pleased and probably don’t want that, so that helps keep them in check. No substantive argument was made about what’s replaceable or not here either. Its just a comment about Apple’s motives. I could guess why you’re posting, but then I’d just be trying to get at your motives.

"because the following components are proprietary and can't be user-upgraded:-
The GPUs
The PCIe Flash”

I will bet you that’s the official Apple policy, as with the retina MBP which has no user serviceable parts. If you’re willing to break AppleCare, you might be able to eventually get those upgraded, but for the GPU it seems very unlikely and for the PCIe Flash its not 100%.

"you can only upgrade the RAM"

Again, that’s likely the only thing you can do and still keep AppleCare.

"disposable computer situation"

Rhetoric. Who cares. Want me to pull up some of your choice comments...

" Yeah I guess upgradability is WAY up there in apple design... /sarcasm"

Same...

"Nobody should buy the TrashCan Pro and expect to upgrade it - outside of upgrading the RAM "

Same again.

" You are permitted to open it for purposes of admiring it's fine finish and see if anyone tossed wadded up paper in the fan."

A joke, really?

"They didn't use Torx bolts to make it easy to take apart."

You’re just making yourself look pathetic at this point.

and that's just the first two pages of this thread.. so where's my misinterpretation of the topic happening?

(and i'd really rather not go through the hundreds of posts in the other threads where the three-headed-monster (tux/slug/mvc) have been spewing the same kind of nonsense about upgradability since at least around august..)

Apparently its in everything you left out. Its in me telling you that you’re misinterpreting things, I suspect purposefully so, while I also try to further explain what everyone else is saying that you can’t understand!

Maybe one person here or there, or one sentence taken out of context leads you think we’re all screaming “IT CAN’T BE UPGRADED AT ALL”. However, we’re all really just saying, this thing looks to be a total PTA to make significant upgrades (i.e. beyond RAM and maybe SSD), that will likely also cost a bundle, IF.....got that... IF you can actually do it at all (meaning here GPU/PSU/CPU upgrades).

Notice that IF there? I didn’t say you absolutely, no way in hell, can’t change anything. I said, right now we don’t know for sure you can, and its not looking promising.

Now, do you feel like stopping the he-said-she-said BS and actually start contributing to decent conversation? Or are you going to chop my post up across three of your posts and point out some little thing someone else made an off hand joke about that in your eyes appears to contradict something or other but who really knows....

....christ, why did I even bother....

 

[flat five]

"ok.. but how am i supposed to interpret these things in your eyes?.. maybe i'm not good at reading between the lines or smthng?"

....christ, why did I even bother....

i'm sorry.. those questions were rhetorical.. i should of been more clear.

 

[MacVidCards]

"ok.. but how am i supposed to interpret these things in your eyes?.. maybe i'm not good at reading between the lines or smthng?"



i'm sorry.. those questions were rhetorical.. i should of been more clear.

Should HAVE

You have crossed the line from "wishful/magical thinking" to "delusional thinking"

With every hardware update, Apple has removed end user choice

nMP a case in point

Aside from my airport example that you never responded too, or the SSD in various machines that THEY DONT OFFER POST SALE UPDATES TO, they now glue the batteries in MBP and use tape to assemble iMac.

Despite that, and the fact that NOBODY has come to your side, you continue posting opinions based on.....?

You have used that MBP battery glue on a pair of blinders. Try acetone. Might dissolve the glue.

 

[barmann]

their sales dept? yeah, it's genius.. but not because they're controlling our buying behaviors.. it's because they're exploiting our behaviors.

they know damn well how many hard drives have been sold for macpro1.. that's like a gazillion dollars which slipped through their hands.. this time around, they'll be catching a much larger chunk of our spending habits..

Wait a sec there ; the nMP is - allegedly - a workstation computer .

Do you seriously believe MP customers don't know the price of their hardware and their future needs (replacing drives), and are ready to overspent on essential disposable parts ?

Apple is certainly not going to prosper from selling proprietary internal drives, but will suffer from alienating potential and existing users, who might well shop elsewhere .

Apple could make money by selling regular SSDs at street price with an nMP that can use them, but low-level proprietary tech doesn't get you far in the workstation market .

 

[haravikk]

Why is this even still being discussed? We simply don't know enough about the new Mac Pro yet, we'll have to wait for a teardown to find out what's really going on.

That said, compared to laptops, or even a Mac Mini, the new Mac Pro looks like it could be extremely easy to get at all the various components, and it would make sense from a repairability perspective, for Apple themselves at least, as we're still talking about a lot of proprietary parts.

The presence of screws doesn't necessarily mean that the system is in any designed to be upgradeable, only that it's designed to be easy to assemble, probably with a view to making built-to-order sales as simple as possible. While it might make installing a new processor simpler, we don't know anything about what that will actually involve except that screws are part of the process.

Same with SSDs; okay so there's space for the SSD connector on the other board, but that could just mean they're producing identical boards (makes sense) and then just not attaching connectors on half of them. While I hope this means that build-to-order of a second SSD is an option, if you don't get that option initially then I very much doubt you'll be able to add a second one yourself without soldering a connection on from somewhere (if the board even includes the other components you'll need). My money's on the A and B boards simply indicating whether they have an SSD connection or not, so it might be possible to get two "B" boards in there if you pay for a second SSD, otherwise they're just slapping an "A" and a "B" in there as standard.

There's far too many uncertainties here, but to summarise my thoughts:

• RAM: Definitely upgradable up to four sticks, hopefully with 32gb modules in future.
• SSD: Definitely upgradable, but most likely requiring a third party product or second-hand Apple supplied components. Number of SSDs will depend upon the presence of a suitable build-to-order option, if more than one is even an option (uncertain).
• Graphics Cards: Possibly upgradeable if offered by Apple. If they even offer it then it'll be expensive, and probably with significant delay. If more than one SSD is an option, then hopefully both boards will include an SSD connection. Feasibility of this upgrade depends upon how easy it is to connect the board to the thermal core; if the process isn't purely mechanical then I very much doubt Apple will offer it. Might be possible by ordering from parts sites or buying second hand, once we know what the correct process is.
• CPU: Very unlikely to be an official upgrade as more parts need to be removed to get at the CPU board. Probably possible to swap a board by buying the part once someone determines the correct procedure. Upgrading just the CPU chip seems like it could be possible (it'd be a waste of Apple's time to make CPU upgrades too difficult as they need to be able to do it themselves during production), but it'll probably be non-trivial.

 

[slughead]

Why is this even still being discussed? We simply don't know enough about the new Mac Pro yet, we'll have to wait for a teardown to find out what's really going on.

Now, do you feel like stopping the he-said-she-said BS and actually start contributing to decent conversation? Or are you going to chop my post up across three of your posts and point out some little thing someone else made an off hand joke about that in your eyes appears to contradict something or other but who really knows....

....christ, why did I even bother....

See, this would fit my "all over the map" description.

So far at least 6 people have called you out. No matter how much evidence comes up, still you cling to your opinion with nothing to back it up.

It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong.

We'll keep waiting I guess.

I think flat_five is some kind of performance artist. It's amazing how many people are chiming in to ask what the heck is he talking about and why is he so sure about things he clearly has no idea about. Most uninformed users get a single friendly reply saying "hey actually, it's this way." He's getting multiple pages of replies due to his clever multiple-illusory-goalpost style. Just when you think logic and reason will change his mind, he makes another pronouncement as if it's what he was saying all along.

We are in the presence of a genius.

 

[barmann]

I think flat_five is some kind of performance artist. ....

We are in the presence of a genius.

In interweb speak it's called a troll .

What you do, you quote him, and even your silliest reply will look smart in comparison .
He believes he has an impact, we get to spread the true word and dispel the nonsense - everyone wins .

 

[tuxon86]

In interweb speak it's called a troll .

What you do, you quote him, and even your silliest reply will look smart in comparison .
He believes he has an impact, we get to spread the true word and dispel the nonsense - everyone wins .

Oh, now you did it... You'll now be include in the select group of Flat_Five torturer with me, MVC and slug...

 

[Gav Mack]

Oh, now you did it... You'll now be include in the select group of Flat_Five torturer with me, MVC and slug...

Me I'll sit on the fence sort of. I've had enough petty arguments in the past three weeks away from here to last a decade.

I'm an old git that's been messing around with PC's and Macintoshes for 25 years, doing the occasional bit of board work though fiddly small soldering is now a pain in the bum thanks to long sightedness kicking in. I'm happy to help people who don't know what they are talking about but can understand the exasperation from my fellow experienced peers reading all this

Cue me jumping back on, have fun everyone and don't go over the top!

 

[flat five]

Should HAVE

You have crossed the line from "wishful/magical thinking" to "delusional thinking"

actually, i really don't believe i'm doing either of those things.. (aside from the side conversations about money and how/why apple gets the most out of us.. which is opinion/feel based).

all i'm doing is looking at the available pictures of the new mac and pointing out the obvious.. it has nothing to do with what i 'wish' was true.. all of its major components are entirely user serviceable beyond any reasonable doubt.. that is all i'm actually saying in the thread..

all this other crap is stuff that you all are introducing into the thread.. if you want to counter the things i've said then show me a picture of the hardware which says 'no, you will not be able to remove/replace/repair without specialty training or tools' (or whatever)

that's why i keep saying (probably 5 times now) there's a time limit on this thread because once the teardown occurs, all/most of the the things i've said will be proven true or false.

bringing up an airport card or an sdd in a laptop is not remotely close to countering the fact that the new mac pro looks accessible and easy to work on.. do you really expect me to be like "oh, there's glue in a laptop so the screws on the new mac suddenly look like they're welded in place?"

do you understand what i'm saying here?




----------

[/COLOR]

Oh, now you did it... You'll now be include in the select group of Flat_Five torturer with me, MVC and slug...

again, just pointing out the obvious.. you 3 separately entered this thread with a response to me.. argued with me.. and don't talk to anybody else unless you're talking about me to them..

it is pretty weird- don't you think?

 

[slughead]

again, just pointing out the obvious.. you 3 separately entered this thread with a response to me.. argued with me.. and don't talk to anybody else unless you're talking about me to them..

it is pretty weird- don't you think?

 

[flat five]

Wait a sec there ; the nMP is - allegedly - a workstation computer .

Do you seriously believe MP customers don't know the price of their hardware and their future needs (replacing drives), and are ready to overspent on essential disposable parts ?

Apple is certainly not going to prosper from selling proprietary internal drives, but will suffer from alienating potential and existing users, who might well shop elsewhere .

Apple could make money by selling regular SSDs at street price with an nMP that can use them, but low-level proprietary tech doesn't get you far in the workstation market .

sorry, i'm not 100% clear on what your point is. apparently, according to wally (or mango?), you ALL are now saying the new mac is obviously user serviceable but the question is whether or not it's worth spending money on upgrades vs. buying a new computer..
is this what you're saying as well or is it something else? if it's something else and it's on topic (topic being whether or not the machine is user serviceable and upgradeable beyond ram) then can you please state your point more clearly?

----------

Image

'conspiracy' implies you guys are working together.. it's not that.
more along the lines of being coincidently similar.

----------

Maybe one person here or there, or one sentence taken out of context leads you think we’re all screaming “IT CAN’T BE UPGRADED AT ALL”. However, we’re all really just saying, this thing looks to be a total PTA to make significant upgrades (i.e. beyond RAM and maybe SSD), that will likely also cost a bundle, IF.....got that... IF you can actually do it at all (meaning here GPU/PSU/CPU upgrades).

Notice that IF there? I didn’t say you absolutely, no way in hell, can’t change anything. I said, right now we don’t know for sure you can, and its not looking promising.

look wally, i do understand you.. i feel that when i discussed with you earlier a somewhat subtopic, i was decently concise with the thoughts or whatever and i spoke directly to you about the things you spoke to me about.

something that may be missing from the equation though is that your involvement in the thread has been with me.. but for me, my involvement in the thread has been with 8 different people.. and no, we're not all talking about the same things.. there is no 'we're all just saying' to it.. you're all saying different things and i'm generally responding individually

what i said to mvc earlier was at him, not you.. he and i (and tux and slug and a couple of others) speak more abrasively towards one another in many regards but don't confuse how i speak with them as to how i speak with you. and maybe don't be so quick to assume what you're talking to me about (fry's, applecare, downtime) is what anybody else is talking about.. but hey, if you want to start attacking me with a bunch of bs then feel free.. if you want to discuss the apparent upgradability of the new mac then feel free too.. i'd personally prefer the latter though..

 

[VirtualRain]

This thread is rather amusing...

I guess I must be bored, or I wouldn't be posting, but FWIW, here's my thoughts on all this...

There are three things being discussed and they are all different (arguably all over the map )...

1. Is the Mac Pro Servicable? I don't think anyone would argue that the Mac Pro is not serviceable. Based on the photos, the way it's assembled makes it look more serviceable than many other Macs. However, there's a lot we can't tell from the photos as well.

2. Is the Mac Pro User-Servicable? (By an enthusiast Mac Pro customer). That's a whole different thing. If the PSU goes, can an enthusiast service that? Impossible to say. If one of the GPU's blows smoke, can the average user properly replace that and ensure the correct thermal bonding to the heat sink core? Impossible to say.

3. Is the Mac Pro Upgradable? Yes and no. The RAM is certainly upgradable. Everything else is almost certainly limited to enterprising DIY enthusiasts that acquire parts off Apple's service supply chain, eBay, or other unofficial sources. There's simply no precedent for Apple to sell upgrades for these computers. Best case is that you buy a Mac Pro with a pair of D300s and two years later you can swap the GPUs in from the 2015 Mac Pro (assuming you can find a source of these parts). It's more likely that with a lot of effort you can swap in a pair of D700s from the current model year (again, assuming you can find a pair somewhere and they aren't so expensive that you're better off buying a new Mac Pro).

 

[handsome pete]

all i'm doing is looking at the available pictures of the new mac and pointing out the obvious.. it has nothing to do with what i 'wish' was true.. all of its major components are entirely user serviceable beyond any reasonable doubt.. that is all i'm actually saying in the thread..

By "user serviceable" I think you really mean "user accessible." No one denies that. All everyone else is doing is pointing out that "what's the point?" if either parts aren't available or are prohibitively expensive?

 

[flat five]

By "user serviceable" I think you really mean "user accessible." No one denies that. All everyone else is doing is pointing out that "what's the point?" if either parts aren't available or are prohibitively expensive?

i see what you're saying pete and welcome the conversation.. it's just the thread is spinning out of control because people keep saying 'everyone is saying such&such' when they're not.. half the people in this thread are still talking about glue/solder/seals etc.. they're still denying that the new mac looks to be serviceable. (and in my opinion- more serviceable than any computer they've made in the past). anyway..

but yeah.. re: "what's the point?" if the parts aren't available or are stupid expensive then there would be no point.. likewise, what's the point of designing the computer in the way they have if there's no intent for them to be selling upgrades and making parts available?

i really don't know what to say at this point.. to me, it's completely obvious the machine was designed in a way that lets a user upgrade parts more easily than they've done with macpro1.. secondary thoughts based off this lead me to believe that apple plans on cashing in on these upgrade parts so of course they will make them available for purchase and at a price which people will pay..

but i've said that multiple times in a variety of ways in the thread already and it doesn't matter.. it's become all too clear that i'm not going to change anybody's mind here.. i can't even get people to look at the pictures of the new mac and report back on their findings.. it's as if those pictures don't even exist and many people are just speaking about the macpro prior to it's preview and subsequent media.. (in which case, yes, people would be much more justified in saying the things they're saying because neither side has any proof.. but, there is proof on the table now.. lots of it even.. but people just keep ignoring it)

i feel strongly about my main point and have mentioned exactly the type of evidence it would take to sway that feeling.. if someone has that type of evidence then please, show it.. if not- i'm not going to change my mind so quit trying.. i don't have a problem waiting for one more month to see this thing completely disassembled.. which is the sole reason for me being interested in the topic in the first place.

 

[handsome pete]

but yeah.. re: "what's the point?" if the parts aren't available or are stupid expensive then there would be no point.. likewise, what's the point of designing the computer in the way they have if there's no intent for them to be selling upgrades and making parts available?

And I think that's the disconnect between both sides here. That may be what you see, but most of us don't see a machine that is any more accessible than the previous Mac Pro. Getting inside the chassis is just as easy as it was in the past, however what we now see inside is proprietary parts, rather than a number of items you could just get from newegg or any other retailer. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that access to the innards are simply meant for RAM upgrades (maybe Flash upgrades) and service technician use only. In fact, I would put money on it. Luckily we should know for sure in another month or so.

 

[MacVidCards]

No matter how many people come and tell you that you're full of it, on you go.

Nobody is saying that it's riveted together.

We see the screws.

You want a "wouldn't it be nice" world where every Apple store will have a "Mac Pro upgrade center" with easy pop in parts.

And what at least 10 people have chimed in to tell you is that isn't going to happen.

It will be just like it has always been. Industry standard parts you can get from Newegg or Frys.

Apple specific parts will be sourced from service parts or tear downs of dead machines. Will Apple sell you an airport card for a current Mac Pro? No, they have to install it.

If they don't trust us to install an insignificant little Airport card, why in the high holy hell would they let you buy CPU or GPUs that need precise fitment with thermal paste and tight screws?

Just because you want something to be true, doesn't mean it will be.

 

[flat five]

1. I don't think anyone would argue that the Mac Pro is not serviceable.

haha VR.. have fun with that

Everything else is almost certainly limited to enterprising DIY enthusiasts that acquire parts off Apple's service supply chain, eBay, or other unofficial sources. There's simply no precedent for Apple to sell upgrades for these computers.

personally, i feel it's similar to the thunderbolt/intel thing.. intel will make money off of every single thunderbolt device sold, regardless of who the actual manufacturer is.. they have a proprietary design and will make their money via licensing fees.. standard modern big business practice.

likewise, when i see this:
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Air-Retina/Apple-MacBook-Air-2012-Drive-Internal-Flash

i see apple being paid a licensing fee even though they didn't make they part themselves and they aren't selling it.. that's because the connector is proprietary/registered/trademarked whatever and other people can't legally just copy it without paying apple their fee..
point being- apple doesn't necessarily even have to make or sell the parts themselves but they've maneuvered/are maneuvering into the position of "if a part is going to be added to one of our computers then we want a piece of the pie" ..they're eliminating the possibility of "well, just go pick up any old WD drive at best buy and throw it in there"(or whatever)..

in essence, i feel they're eliminating what you've said-- " limited to enterprising DIY enthusiasts that acquire parts off Apple's service supply chain, eBay, or other unofficial sources.".. there was previously too much of that going on and they'd prefer (rightfully so from a business perspective) to eliminate all 'unofficial sources' from the supply chain.. if anything is to be additionally sold for the machines they've produced/sold, they want money from that transaction.

----------

You want a "wouldn't it be nice" world where every Apple store will have a "Mac Pro upgrade center" with easy pop in parts.

honestly, no, that's not what i want.. i think i've been fairly clear about how i upgrade my computers. i'm not an upgrade maniac / tinkerer.

my main concern is what happens if a part breaks and i'm satisfied with the pictures shown so far because i can see that if my machine breaks, yes, i can go to the store down the street and buy a part and fix it myself in a relatively very short manner..

it's possible i may be misinterpreting many of you all's personal desire in a computer buy i actually think that it's most of you who are the 'wouldn't it be nice -- mac pro upgrade center' wishers.. and it's ironic that i'm sitting here arguing on your behalf to you meanwhile, you're arguing against your (perceived) wishes

 

[flat five]

And I think that's the disconnect between both sides here. That may be what you see, but most of us don't see a machine that is any more accessible than the previous Mac Pro.
[...]
Luckily we should know for sure in another month or so.

that's the disconnect between you and i and it's much easier to swallow from both sides.. i'm okay with agreeing to disagree and judging by your post, so are you.. i truly have no drive to keep hammering my point away towards you until you yield to my control )) and i don't 'have to be right' here.

unfortunately, i don't feel others have the capability to state their views clearly then be comfortable with "now let's just wait and see who is right" (or whatever).. it becomes entirely too personal for some people (multiple demands of admitting i'm wrong-- pull my head out of the sand-- etc.. that's not a discussion.. that's about control)

 

[handsome pete]

my main concern is what happens if a part breaks and i'm satisfied with the pictures shown so far because i can see that if my machine breaks, yes, i can go to the store down the street and buy a part and fix it myself in a relatively very short manner..

Not that I want to drag this out any further, but wanted to respond to this. What parts are you actually expecting to be able to go purchase at a local dealer and fix yourself?

I think the general consensus is RAM and Flash storage.

What else do you honestly expect to be able to fix?

 

[MacVidCards]

Not that I want to drag this out any further, but wanted to respond to this. What parts are you actually expecting to be able to go purchase at a local dealer and fix yourself?

I think the general consensus is RAM and Flash storage.

What else do you honestly expect to be able to fix?

Oh, he's not doing the upgrades/replacements.

He's got some toddlers lined up for that.

 

[flat five]

Not that I want to drag this out any further, but wanted to respond to this. What parts are you actually expecting to be able to go purchase at a local dealer and fix yourself?

I think the general consensus is RAM and Flash storage.

What else do you honestly expect to be able to fix?

the GPUs.
those are what have broke on me in the past (well, so have hard drives and ram and I also expect them to be equally accessible in the future)..
the first time I blew a gpu in a Mac Pro(early 2008?), my computer was down for a week (which included a trip to the apple store).. that's unacceptable (imo)..

the second time a gpu broke, parts were available at all of the apple stores plus at least 2 non apple stores in the city (and I assume many of the other stores but I felt no need to keep checking).. that's how I feel it should be from a user perspective.. the computer should work when you need it to and if a component breaks, it should be easy/timely to fix. I personally feel apple grasps that concept and if they didn't, I probably wouldn't be continuing to use their products.

 

[MacVidCards]

Right now I can drive to Frys in Burbank. They have more than 100 GPUs there.

And just about EVERY SINGLE ONE of them would work in a Mac Pro running current OS. Card dies, drive to Frys, back up and running in 2 hours tops. Being me, I would then just write myself an EFI for further ease, but that isn't needed to get back to work.

Starting next month, literally NONE of them will work in the nMP. It will be Apple's way or......well, there won't be another choice.

Check out prices for iMac GPUs from DV warehouse. They may be outdated, 3 or 4 year old pulls, but they still hold nearly retail prices. Less choice & Higher prices. Win/win, if your name is Apple.

 

[handsome pete]

the GPUs.
those are what have broke on me in the past (well, so have hard drives and ram and I also expect them to be equally accessible in the future)..
the first time I blew a gpu in a Mac Pro(early 2008?), my computer was down for a week (which included a trip to the apple store).. that's unacceptable (imo)..

the second time a gpu broke, parts were available at all of the apple stores plus at least 2 non apple stores in the city (and I assume many of the other stores but I felt no need to keep checking).. that's how I feel it should be from a user perspective.. the computer should work when you need it to and if a component breaks, it should be easy/timely to fix. I personally feel apple grasps that concept and if they didn't, I probably wouldn't be continuing to use their products.

Fair enough, though in my opinion there's less than a 1% chance that you'll be able to just go out and get replacement cards from Apple or a third party. I think you're going to have to take the unit in for service for such a fix. You may be able to find cards on ebay or similar sources, but they'll be scarce.