New Mac Pro upgradability.

[tuxon86]

That isn't a socket... It's only the soldering pad.

Are you going to solder one yourself, assuming that the required circuitry to make the socket works is also present... If you think replacing a cpu is so easy that a child can do it, then soldering on a pcboard should be trivial /sarcasm...

 

[omnious]

I bet a lunch that second SSD will be a BTO option costing $300-500+, and that unless you pick it right away you won't be able to add it later because the connector won't be there.

Typical Apple way of shafting their users and forcing a purchase of a more expensive models.

Sure you can add a connector there, you just need a right connector and an IR BGA rework station.

~$5 connector
~$2,000+ BGA rework station

...of course someone needs to operate the BGA station, preferably someone with experience of not hosing a $5,000 computer. 🙂

 

[tuxon86]

I bet a lunch that second SSD will be a BTO option costing $300-500+, and that unless you pick it right away you won't be able to add it later because the connector won't be there.

Typical Apple way of shafting their users and forcing a purchase of a more expensive models.

Sure you can add a connector there, you just need a right connector and an IR BGA rework station.

~$5 connector
~$2,000+ BGA rework station

...of course someone needs to operate the BGA station, preferably someone with experience of not hosing a $5,000 computer. 🙂

According to someone here, it's so trivial a child can do it.... 😀

 

[flat five]

Are you going to solder one yourself,

no, but i'll replace drives myself.. it's one screw.

 

[flat five]

I bet a lunch that second SSD will be a BTO option costing $300-500+, and that unless you pick it right away you won't be able to add it later because the connector won't be there.

Typical Apple way of shafting their users and forcing a purchase of a more expensive models.

huh? that's apple shafting themselves, not the user.. you really don't see that?

 

[flat five]

if you were in the business of selling computers, would you rather sell someone a 256GB drive now and a 1TB drive next year -or- coerce someone to buy a 1TB drive now with no possibility of a future sale if they start of with a smaller drive? which one generates more money?

i mean, for as screwy as you all like to claim apple is at conducting business, your sense/logic of business is beyond laughable.

 

[tuxon86]

no, but i'll replace drives myself.. it's one screw.

replace it with what if it's proprietary...

----------

if you were in the business of selling computers, would you rather sell someone a 256GB drive now and a 1TB drive next year -or- coerce someone to buy a 1TB drive now with no possibility of a future sale if they start of with a smaller drive? which one generates more money?

i mean, for as screwy as you all like to claim apple is at conducting business, your sense of business is beyond laughable.

man, you sure love that koolaid...

 

[flat five]

replace it with what if it's proprietary...

replace it with a drive which is sold or licensed by apple.. duh.
nobody will (legally) be upgrading a ssd in this thing without a portion of the drive's cost going directly to apple..
make the drive yourself? that might actually be legal.. don't try selling one though without paying license fees as well.

man, you sure love that koolaid...

i'm sorry but you're entirely missing one of the points i've been trying to make in this thread..

i mean, i take your koolaid remark to insinuate i'm a fanboy(derogatory version) and i'm sitting around here shilling for them and hyping up apple etcetc..

the reality of what i'm saying is that yes, this thing is user serviceable.. but all of your (internal) upgrade/replacement spending is going to be through apple.. apple is going to make a crapton of $$ off of people buying drives and gpus etc (for instance.. sell 1000 drives at $1000.. that's a million right there.. and i think they'll sell a whole lot more than a thousand drives.. it's actually looking like apple is moving towards using one type of drive in all of their computers.. not only is that easier for them, it's also way (way!) more profitable)

----------

go back and read the first page where i said how ironic it's going to be that all of you negative nancys are going to be the ones spending the most money on these computers.. it's the tinkerers and the people that upgrade their computers when there's really no practical need to (i.e.- many people here) that are going to be sipping on the koolaid..

 

[[G5]Hydra]

I bet a lunch that second SSD will be a BTO option costing $300-500+, and that unless you pick it right away you won't be able to add it later because the connector won't be there.

Typical Apple way of shafting their users and forcing a purchase of a more expensive models.

Sure you can add a connector there, you just need a right connector and an IR BGA rework station.

~$5 connector
~$2,000+ BGA rework station

...of course someone needs to operate the BGA station, preferably someone with experience of not hosing a $5,000 computer. 🙂

It's possible, I've thought that myself too that it'll be like ordering certain drive configs for iMacs where if you want two SATA connectors on the MB you have to order a Fusion driver otherwise they leave out the second connector. That said I think limited PCI lanes will more likely be the determining factor if Apple could do such a thing.

 

[flat five]

It's possible, I've thought that myself too that it'll be like ordering certain drive configs for iMacs where if you want two SATA connectors on the MB you have to order a Fusion driver otherwise they leave out the second connector.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+EMC+2639+Teardown/17828
"Budget-minded folks now can add a second hard drive to the base iMac because the Fusion Drive connector is no longer missing from the logic board."



re: the cpu in that thing:

•Apple's iMac refresh included some sneaky changes to the 21.5" model, and we were more than a little perturbed to discover a soldered CPU.
•Thankfully, its 27" big brother was saved from the same fate, and power users will still be able to upgrade their processor without a reflow oven.

 

[Larry-K]

Still a little miffed we don't have enough info about New MacPro High-End pricing and configs.

So this morning I made the End of Fiscal Year purchase of a 12-core Old MacPro.

Just thought I'd "Think Different".

 

[MacVidCards]

replace it with a drive which is sold or licensed by apple.. duh.
nobody will (legally) be upgrading a ssd in this thing without a portion of the drive's cost going directly to apple..
make the drive yourself? that might actually be legal.. don't try selling one though without paying license fees as well.





i'm sorry but you're entirely missing one of the points i've been trying to make in this thread..

i mean, i take your koolaid remark to insinuate i'm a fanboy(derogatory version) and i'm sitting around here shilling for them and hyping up apple etcetc..

the reality of what i'm saying is that yes, this thing is user serviceable.. but all of your (internal) upgrade/replacement spending is going to be through apple.. apple is going to make a crapton of $$ off of people buying drives and gpus etc (for instance.. sell 1000 drives at $1000.. that's a million right there.. and i think they'll sell a whole lot more than a thousand drives.. it's actually looking like apple is moving towards using one type of drive in all of their computers.. not only is that easier for them, it's also way (way!) more profitable)

----------

go back and read the first page where i said how ironic it's going to be that all of you negative nancys are going to be the ones spending the most money on these computers.. it's the tinkerers and the people that upgrade their computers when there's really no practical need to (i.e.- many people here) that are going to be sipping on the koolaid..

Set the jug back down and re-engage the thinking process. Also maybe take a look at Google.

I have a rMBP I bought last year.

I dropped the extra money on RAM (16GB) since it was soldered on I got the Max.

I decided that eventually the SSD would get copied by someone else and sure enough it has.

Unfortunately I don't see that OWC sells the top model.

They offer 256 and 512 versions, and this machine uses same one as MBAir of a certain era. (no others similar despite appearing similar)

So, the only 768GB ones have been from scrapped Apple machines. So...they still sell for $1K used. And I haven't seen a 1TB version.

Apple has successfully made upgrading expensive when it could have been far more reasonable.

Yay.

And I have no doubt that Apple will EVENTUALLY enable that 2nd PCIE slot for SSD. They'll make it part of some big hou-ha update and act like they're giving away chocolate to orphans.

BTW, since you believe that Apple will be offering SSD updates, could you find one for my rMBP on their site? Slides in and out of a slot, just like nMP.

And there is a grade school on the corner, I'll get a 10 year old to install it.

 

[flat five]

lol. so now you're going to stop arguing whether or not the machine is upgradable and start arguing me that the cost of doing so is more expensive than in the past (ie- the same thing I've been saying all along)

just give it up already, ok?

 

[flat five]

and for the record, yes, I do believe a grade schooler could replace an ssd in the nmp.

does it really look at all difficult to you? there's one freaking screw in it.

 

[flat five]

I have a rMBP I bought last year.

I dropped the extra money on RAM (16GB) since it was soldered on I got the Max.

.

pretty much the exact point I keep trying to make re:irony

you sit around here week after week after month after month bitching and moaning about how lame apple is and how stupid and overpriced their computers are-- even going so far to insult/chastise people that say things against your 'philosophy' ..but then you turn around and buy the things??

seriously, what the hell is that all about?

 

[wallysb01]

lol. so now you're going to stop arguing whether or not the machine is upgradable and start arguing me that the cost of doing so is more expensive than in the past (ie- the same thing I've been saying all along)

just give it up already, ok?

Wow, really?

I just reread selective parts of this thread to be sure, but you're seriously off your rocker here. No one ever argued that this machine is or isn't upgradable. Its always been what parts are easily or not upgradable and for what reasons. You seem to want to keep building up this simplistic strawman of "is or isn't" just to knock it down agian.

 

[ActionableMango]

A totaled car might be technically repairable, but the cost of the repair exceeds the value.

The nMP has similar aspects. Yes, some upgrades may be technically possible, but if the cost is too high, you don't upgrade it, you simply buy a new one that has the upgrade bundled in. If you can't upgrade in a cost-effective manner, then it is effectively not upgradeable.

 

[flat five]

Wow, really?

I just reread selective parts of this thread to be sure, but you're seriously off your rocker here. No one ever argued that this machine is or isn't upgradable. Its always been what parts are easily or not upgradable and for what reasons. You seem to want to keep building up this simplistic strawman of "is or isn't" just to knock it down agian.

I guess we just read differently then

 

[MacVidCards]

Wow, really?

I just reread selective parts of this thread to be sure, but you're seriously off your rocker here. No one ever argued that this machine is or isn't upgradable. Its always been what parts are easily or not upgradable and for what reasons. You seem to want to keep building up this simplistic strawman of "is or isn't" just to knock it down agian.

Yeah, all over the map and makes no sense

----------

A totaled car might be technically repairable, but the cost of the repair exceeds the value.

The nMP has similar aspects. Yes, some upgrades may be technically possible, but if the cost is too high, you don't upgrade it, you simply buy a new one that has the upgrade bundled in. If you can't upgrade in a cost-effective manner, then it is effectively not upgradeable.

Exactly.

This is why a lot of fine old cars end up in junkyard. When a new transmission is $2,000 and the car worth $1,700 you have to love it to bother. Most just have it towed away.

 

[wallysb01]

I guess we just read differently then

read different


ok

 

[flat five]

read different


ok

ok.. but how am i supposed to interpret these things in your eyes?.. maybe i'm not good at reading between the lines or smthng?
----



"Being able to incrementally update/replace is EXACTLY what is being taken away. "


"In an ideal world Apple would want everyone to fall into the trap of upgrading to a new machine every three years."


"because the following components are proprietary and can't be user-upgraded:-
The GPUs
The PCIe Flash"


"you can only upgrade the RAM"


"disposable computer situation"


" Yeah I guess upgradability is WAY up there in apple design... /sarcasm"


"Nobody should buy the TrashCan Pro and expect to upgrade it - outside of upgrading the RAM "


" You are permitted to open it for purposes of admiring it's fine finish and see if anyone tossed wadded up paper in the fan."


"They didn't use Torx bolts to make it easy to take apart."



---------------------
and that's just the first two pages of this thread.. so where's my misinterpretation of the topic happening?

(and i'd really rather not go through the hundreds of posts in the other threads where the three-headed-monster (tux/slug/mvc) have been spewing the same kind of nonsense about upgradability since at least around august..)

 

[tuxon86]

Ok, we get it... Everybody is wrong except a skateboard ramp designer working on a stock 1,1 mac pro...

 

[MacVidCards]

ok.. but how am i supposed to interpret these things in your eyes?.. maybe i'm not good at reading between the lines or smthng?
----



"Being able to incrementally update/replace is EXACTLY what is being taken away. "


"In an ideal world Apple would want everyone to fall into the trap of upgrading to a new machine every three years."


"because the following components are proprietary and can't be user-upgraded:-
The GPUs
The PCIe Flash"


"you can only upgrade the RAM"


"disposable computer situation"


" Yeah I guess upgradability is WAY up there in apple design... /sarcasm"


"Nobody should buy the TrashCan Pro and expect to upgrade it - outside of upgrading the RAM "


" You are permitted to open it for purposes of admiring it's fine finish and see if anyone tossed wadded up paper in the fan."


"They didn't use Torx bolts to make it easy to take apart."



---------------------
and that's just the first two pages of this thread.. so where's my misinterpretation of the topic happening?

(and i'd really rather not go through the hundreds of posts in the other threads where the three-headed-monster (tux/slug/mvc) have been spewing the same kind of nonsense about upgradability since at least around august..)

Sorry you can't understand.

Not as difficult as you make it out to be.

A totaled car might be technically repairable, but the cost of the repair exceeds the value.

The nMP has similar aspects. Yes, some upgrades may be technically possible, but if the cost is too high, you don't upgrade it, you simply buy a new one that has the upgrade bundled in. If you can't upgrade in a cost-effective manner, then it is effectively not upgradeable.

Sums it up rather nicely.

 

[flat five]

except a skateboard ramp designer working on a stock 1,1 mac pro...

you say that as if it's a bad thing..

Sorry you can't understand.

Not as difficult as you make it out to be.

no, i understand just fine thank you.

(mango's quote)
Sums it up rather nicely.

that's a completely different topic and one that i'd rather not go into too hard right now since too many costs are still unknown.. but i will say this- apple knows that too.. they're some of the best marketers in the world and i don't think anyone here can outsmart them at their own game..
the way they'll price these things and the upgrade parts will be such that they're going to make more money off you than if either of these situations were true:

A) completely closed system other than ram swaps
B) looser system in which many different manufacture's parts will work (mac pro 1)

they want to extract the maximum amount of money from you and yes, cheaper* upgrade parts factor heavily into that formula.. they want you to upgrade this thing.


*cheaper meaning cheaper than a new computer-- sub$1000 parts in which a user will be more inclined to pay once or twice per year.

 

[flat five]

using gpus as an example..

say you are allowed to upgrade gpus on the new mac.. is this a realistic scenario over the next 10 years?
2 mac pro purchases + 2 gpu upgrades
(seems reasonable, right?)

on a closed system, you would buy a new computer every 3 years (if i understand correctly the reasonings being given as to why apple would rather not allow upgrades)..

the second scenario not only has upset users, it has upset shareholders.. all apple is actually selling is computer components (and glass etc).. i don't think a shareholder gives a crap if gpus are being sold in an iCandy or a cardboard box.. but i'm willing to bet they'd prefer a scenario which sells 8 gpus in 10years as opposed to 6.. (especially considering it's much more likely a user will buy the higher dollar gpus if they're buying them as upgrades and they'd stick to the lower dollar gpus if the plan was to replace the computer in 3 years)