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Except you wouldn't get finger prints all over your screen and you wouldn't need to reach upwards to interact in things - come on man, an interactive touch bar is far better than a touch screen laptop which they've been trying and failing to push on the Windows side for over a decade now (even including completely re-writing Windows TWICE to try and turn it into a touch primarily OS!!)

It's not just a CPU upgrade and a touch strip though is it. It's a Skylake processor, its the best port ever seen on any computer ever a 40gbps Thunderbolt 3 port, not just one by 4 of them, enabling us to add external drives that can do 4000MB/s read and write! Its a wide colour gamut much brighter screen, its a double size track pad, its a better keyboard, its far far improved speakers, it's touch ID for logging in and buying things, its faster RAM, its a SSD unmatched in any other product currently, 3000MB/s read and write is utterly insane speeds! It's a new much thinner and much lighter shape and that is welcome over here (as is Space Grey!) Its FAR FAR better graphics from a new line Radeon just introduced yesterday after the MacBook Pro announcement, its also Bluetooth 4.2 which i'm sure will come in handy for me at some point.

But yeah ok - its just a pressor and some touch strip thingy. :rolleyes:
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As said about a hundred times to all the moaners, Kaby Lake isn't out until next year - and the difference it'll make isn't worth delaying the laptop for.

People need to get out of this mindset that Apple's computers will follow Intels release cycle, there about 7-8 features far more important in this laptop than whatever minor cycle name Intel is giving their chips.

"fingerprints" are your only reasoning for not going touchscreen, yet have no problems with phones and tablets?

I've been using touchscreens now for a little while. They work very well even on laptops. and for the things that they demo'd the touchbar far, they work exactly the same way. just, live, right in your program, instead of down. Thus, you can actually look at your program and what you're doing, and not down at a touch strip to see what yo're actually pressing.

the Oled touchbar is cool. I actually do like it. But lets not pretend that it's some magical new thing here. It's an attempt by apple to give "touchscreen" like functionality without walking back on their words. meanwhile, every other vendor offers touchscreens that sell well

And yes, it's a skylake processor. Procreassor upgrades don't generally cause the overall device price to go up by large amounts. It's a replacement part, not an additivie part. You're not charging haswell + skylake CPU prices. You're taking Haswell completely out and putting in a Skylake CPU. The difference in part price between Haswell and Skylake isn't $500. In fact, Intel has generally lowered prices from previous. Even fi thats not the case here, replacing Haswell with Skylake isn't a $500 upgrade.

Thunderbolt 3/USB-C is nice. But it's driven by the CPU here, Apple didn't suddenly do anything to add it. In fact, they took out other technologies such as SD card, MagSafe, HDMI, etc. the overall costs to have 4 of the exact same port and nothing else is lower, than to have to manufacture multiple ports AND the controllers for each.

The RAM itself isn't necessarily going to be faster. Reports show that it's still using DDR3 and not DDR4 ram. However, in most testing, RAM speed is still not that integral. most DDR and DDR4 ram behaves similarly.

the keyboard is not necessarily "Better" either. There are many people who cannot stand the new butterfly mechanism. And if it's anything like the MacBook keyboard, i'm right out. Cannot type on that thing, and I'm a touch typist who can type on most keyboards at 100+ WPM.

at the end of the day, many of these "upgrades" that you list, the Bluetooth, the graphics, etc. are not additive upgrades but replacement upgrades. Either they replaced an older tech, or they are substitute for.

At the end of the day, the $500 extra doesn't feel justified. at least to me. and "it's slimmer!" isn't worth $500 if it means cutting out other things. This is supposed to be a "pro" laptop. Where "thinness" is NOT the #1 factor.

as iv'e said. This is a great laptop. It's not worth $500 extra over previous generations, but a good laptop. Just not the revolutionary product Apple is marketing it as
 
Except you wouldn't get finger prints all over your screen and you wouldn't need to reach upwards to interact in things - come on man, an interactive touch bar is far better than a touch screen laptop which they've been trying and failing to push on the Windows side for over a decade now (even including completely re-writing Windows TWICE to try and turn it into a touch primarily OS!!)

It's not just a CPU upgrade and a touch strip though is it. It's a Skylake processor, its the best port ever seen on any computer ever a 40gbps Thunderbolt 3 port, not just one by 4 of them, enabling us to add external drives that can do 4000MB/s read and write! Its a wide colour gamut much brighter screen, its a double size track pad, its a better keyboard, its far far improved speakers, it's touch ID for logging in and buying things, its faster RAM, its a SSD unmatched in any other product currently, 3000MB/s read and write is utterly insane speeds! It's a new much thinner and much lighter shape and that is welcome over here (as is Space Grey!) Its FAR FAR better graphics from a new line Radeon just introduced yesterday after the MacBook Pro announcement, its also Bluetooth 4.2 which i'm sure will come in handy for me at some point.

But yeah ok - its just a pressor and some touch strip thingy. :rolleyes:
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As said about a hundred times to all the moaners, Kaby Lake isn't out until next year - and the difference it'll make isn't worth delaying the laptop for.

People need to get out of this mindset that Apple's computers will follow Intels release cycle, there about 7-8 features far more important in this laptop than whatever minor cycle name Intel is giving their chips.
Ah...I stand corrected. Thank you
 
I love my iPhone (6s) and iPad, but I continue to use Windows (desktop and laptop). Yes the first iteration of a merged (keyboard and touchscreen) Windows in Windows 8 was brutal, but I think Microsoft is on the right track that a keyboard centric operating system and a touch centric operating system can co-exist. Windows 10 is much better than Windows 8, I'm sure Windows 11 will be even better. Apple is wrong that the two types of operating systems can't coexist, Microsoft is proving them wrong.


I agree. I've used Windows 10 extensively, and it hits the sweet spot very well.

It's much harder to do the same with OSX though: there are far more small drop downs, and context-changing menus that can't work the same without roll-over, and a fleet of other things.

I still think that Apple is going to do one of two things:

1) Go through the same mess as Microsoft did with Windows 8. Urrgh. It would have been better to do that 5 years ago.

2) Slowly get to a point where there's an IOS version for the Macbook, along the lines of the iPad Pro. That's the end of the Mac as a profession workhorse.


Neither of these options are good.
 
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I am surprised so few people in this thread mention RAM and the graphics card. 16GB is max on ANY MBP. Will actual pros be be able to use this as their primary computer?

This! I like to buy my devices for the long term, so I'm looking at 32gb and at least Nvidea series 10 graphics cards, I felt out of everything this is the biggest issue but it seems me and you are in a minority oddly and this is not important to others.
 
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Consumer: "I want my device to be thinner and stuff."
Mfg: "Ok, cool. We'll need to remove some ports."
Consumer: "Oh mah gerd NO!!! Don't remove the ports!"
Mfg: "Well, that's the only way."
Consumer: "Ok I guess I can live with that, if it makes my device thin af!"
Consumer: "Sweet my nice new thin device is going to be so awesome!"
Consumer: "How do I use this device without the ports?"
Mfg: "You just need to purchase a dongle or hub."
Consumer: "WUT?!!"

Look I get it. Lack of ports = headache and peripheral purchase. I honestly can't think of a good reason for anyone to purchase a new Macbook. Go buy a new old model, they work just fine.
 
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Man, I'm a little bummed. All I wanted was MagSafe and the same price point.

I don't understand why so many people keep complaining about MagSafe. Yes, it was awesome when it was introduced, when you could barely squeeze 3 hours out of a charge. Now we can get 10 hours out of a charge. I rarely see people plugged in at cafes; I'm one of the only people who has to as I'm still on a 2011 MacBook Pro. I've been working from cafes for the past 4 years, and no one has ever tripped over my cord. Not once.

MagSafe is a niche feature that the average person just doesn't need. But if you're in that niche, you can get the Griffin BreakSafe.

There is literally no reason to complain about it.
 
Except you wouldn't get finger prints all over your screen and you wouldn't need to reach upwards to interact in things - come on man, an interactive touch bar is far better than a touch screen laptop which they've been trying and failing to push on the Windows side for over a decade now (even including completely re-writing Windows TWICE to try and turn it into a touch primarily OS!!)

It's not just a CPU upgrade and a touch strip though is it. It's a Skylake processor, its the best port ever seen on any computer ever a 40gbps Thunderbolt 3 port, not just one by 4 of them, enabling us to add external drives that can do 4000MB/s read and write! Its a wide colour gamut much brighter screen, its a double size track pad, its a better keyboard, its far far improved speakers, it's touch ID for logging in and buying things, its faster RAM, its a SSD unmatched in any other product currently, 3000MB/s read and write is utterly insane speeds! It's a new much thinner and much lighter shape and that is welcome over here (as is Space Grey!) Its FAR FAR better graphics from a new line Radeon just introduced yesterday after the MacBook Pro announcement, its also Bluetooth 4.2 which i'm sure will come in handy for me at some point.

But yeah ok - its just a pressor and some touch strip thingy. :rolleyes:

Hmm, Apple sells a touch screen device, so I'm a bit tired of the "smudges" trope.

This TouchBar is also made of glass, so wouldn't it get smudgy too?

It's a lame excuse. And it's literally mm away from the screen you would touch, should they make a real touchscreen. How much effort does it take to move your hand from the touchbar to the screen, really? I don't buy Apple's kool-aid here.

Apple will never make a touchscreen Mac because:

1. It would rather sell you 2 devices (and thus double the profits) instead of one.

2. They don't want to retool macOS for touch, because they already did: iOS. Watch the original iPhone keynote again...

3. They took "computer" out of their name around that time for a reason, and Steve Jobs himself stated that the Mac was the only device they made that fit the computer category, becaaaaause...

4. Apple will kill the Mac. iOS is the future in Apple's eyes. It's the end-game.
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If that's their goal, they're going a very odd way about it with the iOS/OSX firewall.

Microsoft's brutal merging in Windows 8 is what converging looks like, and it's messy, and took years for Windows 10 to emerge out of the ashes.

They're walking up a cul-de-sac at Apple HQ.

You're missing it: "The iPad Pro is all you need" -Tim Cook, CEO of Apple Inc.
 
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I think that the price hikes by Apple (and others) are in part to do with the longevity of today's computers. People just don't upgrade as often as they used to, so the manufacturers need bigger profits on the kit that they sell to compensate for the shortfall in repeat sales.
 
Consumer: "I want my device to be thinner and stuff."
Mfg: "Ok, cool. We'll need to remove some ports."
Consumer: "Oh mah gerd NO!!! Don't remove the ports!"
Mfg: "Well, that's the only way."
Consumer: "Ok I guess I can live with that, if it makes my device thin af!"
Consumer: "Sweet my nice new thin device is going to be so awesome!"
Consumer: "How do I use this device without the ports?"
Mfg: "You just need to purchase a dongle or hub."
Consumer: "WUT?!!"

Look I get it. Lack of ports = headache and peripheral purchase. I honestly can't think of a good reason for anyone to purchase a new Macbook. Go buy a new old model, they work just fine.

it's not this easy though. there are two aspects of it.

Apple is looking at it from Consumer1's perspective, and ignoring Consumer2 and Consumer3

10 years ago, Apple was focused on Consumer2 and 3.

so now, Consumer1 gets his super thin "idevice" inspired "professional laptoP", but Consumer2 and Consumer3 no longer have an Apple product that is aimed for them.

of course they're going to gripe.
 
I think it's interesting that the keyboard, which most pros don't use, is a 'feature' now that it hasn't been in the past. I like how Dalrymple says, 'this one is better'. Yeah, sure it is, I remember hearing him say that the keyboard needs to travel just a little further when he was reviewing the last model. /s

Has anyone noticed when they were shown the external displays by LG the laptop was always in front of the display so they didn't have to show an external keyboard or mouse/trackpad. Any pro I know, including myself, hooks these up off to the side either using the 15" display next to the larger on or folding up the laptop while driving two displays.

I also like how they insist on using the lightning connector for audio on the iPhone and presumably the upcoming iPads. But keep the headphone jack on the laptops and include ONLY USBC ports. Why not include a lightning port that can charge the iPhone or better yet, converted the lightning to USBC on the iPhone? Wow, shortsighted!!
 
But they did last year, and Apple not including them (or Kaby Lake) in this release is an atrocious miss!
Yes, however the redesign is what delayed the MBP. It make little sense to release a spec bump then redesign it the next year without anything processing wise to upgrade as well.
Also it has been said 100 of times the high powered Kaby Lake chips are not available yet until 1st quarter 2017.

USB-C is the norm now in terms of ports that Apple wants to give you. For practical purposes, devices do not exist in USB-C. A few token devices exist at 5-10 times the price as a USB-A version

USB-C, in 2016, serves no purpose other than creating demand for Apple adapters.

And outside the the Apple kool-aid-addict-club, computers sold in 2016 have a nice mix of USB-A and USB-C ports.

There are hundreds of devices in USB-C from Monitors to Flash drives. Numerous adapter cheaper than Apple's as well. Almost every single Android device use it now too. And Apple isn't the only company putting USB-C on their computers. New technology in general always start off expensive. My cousin just bought a 32 GB SanDisk Ultra Dual USB Drive 3.0 for $18 which was the same price my now useless 4 GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive back years back.
 
OK with keyboard. I have a MacBook and have gotten used to it. USB-c seems like the future. Each port can do just about everything. Hopefully external displays catch up sooner than later, and it would sure be nice to have more docking solutions in in the interim. Over time, that's the right choice. My biggest complaint is that the iPhone 7 stayed on lighting instead of switching to USB-c. So out of box I can plug a pixel into the new MacBook Pro but not the newest iPhone. Huh? Does Apple's right hand have any idea what it's left hand is doing?
 
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Or you could just buy a hub? No one in their right mind would buy 4 adapters instead of a hub. Guess it's easier to create memes about hypothetical situations and winge than to accept you're overreacting to Apple pushing a superior technology forward. Did you also make memes when Apple dropped Firewire?
 
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I admit that much of the price shock in the UK is due to the £ tanking (#ThanksBrexit). However, I think what is happening here is that all the well paid engineers and employees of Apple are now so wealthy in comparison to the rest of us that they don't notice how ridiculous the new price points are. I was ready to upgrade my white plastic MacBook, but these prices are crazy – particularly the prices for increased SSD storage. And why is AppleCare the same for a purely solid-state MacBook as it was for MacBooks with essential moving parts prone to failure (HD)? Shouldn't the reliability of the technology have improved so the AppleCare costs have gone down?

Either Apple have decided to abandon the consumer market, focusing on luxury goods, or they have completely lost touch with middle-class people who want to benefit from new, better but less expensive technology. So much for Apple changing the world.

OMG THIS.

It's BOTH.

My conclusion was more crass:

The Apple Team has been riding such a high from the success of the-house-that-Steve-built that they now use an internal reward system as a measure of success: the circle-jerk. One hand for "business" and the other to pat themselves in the back and the head.

I appreciate their products, but I can't stand to hear them talk anymore.
 
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Im wondering...will the touch bar and the new keyboard blend??

:)

No, but Safari seems a little snappier with the touch bar. ;)

In any case, hands up if you would like Apple to focus on bringing prices down rather than trying to make products wafer-thin.
 
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USB-C is the norm now. More Powerful and efficient in every way compared to the other ports. I have no problem making the jump.
I don't buy dongles, I buy devices and there are a lot of old hardware and traditional hard drives in my room that will get dropped. The only thing old that I will keep will be the Macs I patch.

You will buy a dongle if you buy Apples new iPhone and Apples new MBP. So your choice all new devices is kicked in the nuts by Apple themselves.
 
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And don't forget, no SD card slot means no upgradable storage. A 256 Gig SD that fits in as a second drive is just $80. In 3 years when you may need more storage a 512 Gig SD may be at that prise point already.

Removing the SD slot is pure greed on Tims side. Pure greed. Screw you Tim.
 
A two pack of USB-C to USB 3.0 adapters and a USB-C to Lightning cable will set you back $20 in total. That solves pretty much all of your connection problems listed above.
If you don't have better headphones than the lightning headphones that came with your iPhone then you don't really care about listening to stuff.

So you don't find it ludicrous that you have to use an adapter to connect the *current* iPhone to the *current* MacBook Pro?

Also, if they were removing ports, why didn't they remove the headphone jack then?
 
I don't want to be another one beating Apple.

The new MBP might be a great device (apart from the gimmicky top-bar).
People are going to use less cables, I get it. But Apple should include an adapter to charge iPhone for free (like they did with the iPhone 7).

What I don't get it is why raising prices substantially? MacBooks were becoming more accessible and selling like pancakes. The impression I have is that Apple executives think we are the typical fanboy/sheep that people who never used a Mac makes fun of. "Just put an Apple sticker and those idiots will pay double".
 
You get another Dell. The Inspiron 7559 is a great notebook for the price.
If you like Macs forget the inspiron series. Get the XPS13 or XPS 15. Work provided me XPS13 for my mobile device because I was tired using my MacBook Air. I'm loving the XPS13 so far.
 
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