New MacBook Pro Has Better Keyboard Than 12-Inch MacBook, But It's Expensive and Lacking Ports

[Pootmatoot]

The key line in his post is this:

"And outside the the Apple kool-aid-addict-club, computers sold in 2016 have a nice mix of USB-A and USB-C ports."

To soon for Apple to give us just the one type, but it IS cheaper for them to do so.

Exactly.

I use USB-C in my work PC for charging, a monitor hookup, and for the great new Samsung external HDs. That probably puts me in the top 1% of USB-C users for "multi-use".

I have never had the need for more than two ports at once. And I use the additional USB-A ports dozens of times a day. The use-case for 4 USB-C ports and zero USB-A's is probably less than one in a thousand professionals, nevermind regular users.

 

[dannys1]

Just not the revolutionary product Apple is marketing it as

So you want them to market it as "just a good laptop" ok then...

And we'll agree to disagree with the finger print thing - on my tablet it's fine because its a tablet, completely designed for touch and should stay that way. I want the best touch based iPad I can get and I want the best non touch enable macOS system I can get. I don't want a bastardised version of the two.

 

[laz232]

The new MBP is not lacking ports. It has four ports that can be used for just about anything, from power to video to data, and often more than one thing at the same time.

I hope USB-C is the real deal. I wouldn't mind having power and data hardwired in standard wall sockets. You wouldn't need a brick, a wart, or a dongle. Just a cable, and the same cable could be used for Macs, iMacs, iPhones, iPads, Android phones, Windows laptops, etc. I feel sorry for those who invested in USB-A power outlets. Of course wireless power could make that one cable go away, too.

Except for the MBP that only has two ports...

And that's what we were promised for TB1, TB2... and that *never* happened. Just more dongles. dongles dongles dongles.

And f wireless power. The last thing we need is more magnetic / EM fields in the air*

*professional opinion as an RF design engineer (DC-78GHz up to now...)

 

[w00master]

There's no need for a dongle, i've already got the USB-C cable for the ONE time a year I connect my phone to the computer (to back it up before I sell it) - I'll be all USB-C within the next week and totally forgotten about those awful USB-A cables I had to deal with for years.

But again, it's the new iPhone. I shouldn't have to have to go out and buy another dongle to connect with the new Mac Book Pro. YOU may only connect once, but MANY others will do it often. And again, if you're removing ports, why not remove the headphone jack like they did on the iPhone?

 

[jfischer]

I was considering the 15" pro to replace my old dell but how would I connect my iPhone 6s lightening cable to the 15" pro? I would have to shell out another $25.00 for an adapter?

Wouldn't a USB-C to normal USB adapter work? I bought one for $5 from Monoprice to use on my MacBook, it works with thumb drives, etc just fine.

So yeah, you'd still need an adapter, but I don't see why this same adapter couldn't work with the normal USB to Lightning cable you've already got?

 

[w00master]

So you want them to market it as "just a good laptop" ok then...

And we'll agree to disagree with the finger print thing - on my tablet it's fine because its a tablet, completely designed for touch and should stay that way. I want the best touch based iPad I can get and I want the best non touch enable macOS system I can get. I don't want a bastardised version of the two.

A strip and fingerprint reader, ain't exactly that cutting age.

Again... if they're removing ports, why not the headphone jack? Didn't they want the room? Didn't they want to make it even thinner? WHERE'S THE COURAGE?

 

[Savor]

Other than the more comfortable butterfly keyboard they mention which can be a divisive topic, the reviewers pretty much summed up what I felt with it.

Expensive? Yes but comparable to laptops from yesteryear and people need to take account inflation.

Less ports? That's my biggest issue with it. While iPhone 7/7 Plus lost 3.5mm headphone jack which drew an uproar, imagine losing three ports? USB-A, SD slot, and MagSafe.

Apple could have easily included one USB-A and one USB-C. But they wanted to screw us over like they did with the 2015 "12 rMacBook. Each of those ports can be very important to a variety of users. I have this standard USB adapter that creates four slots from one port. Now it is useless without a dongle.

SD for camera users and anyone who wants to transfer. Expandable storage is a godsend.

Then MagSafe to keep it safe in case someone trips over the cord. And that cool little orange or green light when charging.

I actually do like the new MacBook Pro even if minus the glowing Apple logo which has been overused and can be seen a lot in colleges or any local Starbucks. I wouldn't say I love the new MBP but I like it enough. I don't think price is an issue for me. I believe I would've got it if those ports weren't omitted especially the standard USB-A. I definitely would rather get it over any iPhone and iPad.

Just avoid Gen 1 of a new revamp. Apple will improve it and prices will fall too. Hoping the 2017-2018 models will be that much better and cheaper.

 

[doelcm82]

The key line in his post is this:

"And outside the the Apple kool-aid-addict-club, computers sold in 2016 have a nice mix of USB-A and USB-C ports."

To soon for Apple to give us just the one type, but it IS cheaper for them to do so.

In the long run, it's cheaper for us, too. I remember when soda started coming in 2-liter bottles (in preparation for a gradual shift to the metric system). Thirty years later, Americans know how much two liters are, but we still buy everything else in gallons and quarts. The UK is in the same boat, to a lesser extent, but their gallons and quarts are not even the same as the ones we use in the US (as I found out when I sent a soup recipe to some friends in the UK).

Better to kill USB-A as quickly as possible. Rip that band-aid off.

 

[Val-kyrie]

It has WAY more and flexible in out capability than the limited older versions, usb-c/tb3 is the future for macs and for PCs. Learn more about it.
Tired of idi*ts complaining about ports on a computer that has 4 usb-c/thunderbolt3 ports..

Increased price is the only thing thats ok complaining about. But then again no one force you to buy it.

I think you misunderstand. People are not complaining that the MBP has TB3, but rather that it ONLY has TB3. Apple could have provided a transitionary MBP with all or many of the previous ports (especially USB type A) and simply upgraded the existing TB2 ports to TB3. Schiller's attempt to explain the need for 4xTB3 ports (power from any port, peripherals but no mention of dongles) is weak.

Moreover, Apple's decision to continue selling previous gen base models with TB2 (1) is a tacit admission that they knew they were pricing the new models high and so needed to retain the previous gen to fill in the price gaps and (2) creates a convoluted mess out of their lineup.

 

[w00master]

Better to kill USB-A as quickly as possible. Rip that band-aid off.

So why didn't they "rip off the band-aid" for the headphone jack? They could've made it even thinner then! Where's the courage? /s

 

[Mainsail]

I understand folks are worked-up about the price. $1799 is pretty steep for the entry level MBP with touch bar. The $1499 model is really not that bad from a pricing perspective. The older MBP was $1299 with 128 GB of storage. If you upgraded the old MBP to 256 GB, it would be $1499...same price. Just another way to look at it. I think most people would prefer the new MBP to the old MBP with the same storage. For this reason, I think the $1499 model will be the most popular MBP.

Also, Apple typically ratchets the prices with new releases and then does processor upgrades whilst slowly lowering the price as the model ages. I would not be surprised to see the $1499 model at $1299 in a couple of years.

 

[philfry]

20% increase + a need for dongles to attach any older connectors such as usb. Those in the UK and Europe received a heftier increase.

I'm pretty sure the 13" retina was $1699 when it was released. That is how Apple does it. The MacBook Air was almost $1799 i think when it was released in 2008. These prices will come down but this is the price for getting the newest model from Apple.

 

[emailnotebox]

So my Macbook Pro 15 inch model from Late-2013 has the same exact Intel Quad-core i7 as the newest released Macbook Pro 15 inch model ... BUT OMG OMG OMG I CAN PUT EMOTICONS IN MY PROFESSIONAL WORK MUCH EASIER.

That just made me realize... Apple staffs and executives must be occupied using emojis in their regular communication in their headquarter all the time! I wonder how they communicate with one another. They should come up with "how to use emojis to accurately communicate feelings in the workplace" manual for corporations operating in the modern workplace.

 

[CriticalVoice]

Interesting graphic on the apple page. It shows two monitors and two raid arrays. The implication is this is what you can do with 4xusb-c ports. But where to plug in the power supply?
http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/

Power is provided by the monitor!

 

[SSD-GUY]

If it has less key travel the new Apple magic keyboard then I'm out.

As a rMB owner I'm fine with using a thinner keyboard as that thing is seriously portable. I forget it's in my bag at times. But for a Pro machine that is heavier, I would need some more key travel.

 

[Mac 128]

Can't connect to current iPhone (7) without adapter.
Can't use iPhone 7 Lightning headphones without another adapter.
Can't plug in camera cards without adapter.
External monitors will need a another new adapter.
Can't connect just about anything you already own without an adapter (mouse, keyboard, USB drives/devices/printers).
Costs much more than before.

Let's start with what I agree with you about:

The Lightning headphones -- not only can you not connect without an adapter, NO ADAPTER EXISTS!

I agree it might have been too soon to pull the SD card slot, especially since there appears to be plenty of room for it.

As for the rest, this has always been the case with Apple that buying the next generation Macs required eliminating most, if not all of the previous gear. So I don't really see this as a problem. It's just part of owning a Mac.

But with respect to the charging cable, I think Apple made the right choice. To put this into perspective:

The iPhone 7 is going to sell over 200 million iPhone 7, not to mention the over half-a-billion Lightning devices already out there the same cable can be used with.

Apple will likely sell around 20 million Macs, all together, this year -- not just the new USB-C models. Compared to the installed base of maybe 100 million, maybe 10% of all Macs sold by the end of the year will have USB-C only ports. So that works out to be something like 2% of all iOS users may be using a USB-C Mac by the time the next iPhone comes out.

So instead of Apple supplying them with a cable on the less than 2% chance they will buy a new Mac, they continued to supply the vast majority of customers a cable that will be most useful in all of the environments they may encounter throughout their day.

I don't disagree that supplying a $4 adapter from USB-A to USB-C with the MacBook would have eased the transition, but I also don't agree with Apple supplying adapters in the first place. I think including a 3.5mm adapter with the iPhone 7 was a mistake, especially now that the AirPods have been delayed since it encourages people to keep using old 3.5mm equipment.

With the MBP, it might encourage people to keep using cheap adapters (which could lead to other problems) rather than buying the correct cables and equipment for the new MBP.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

1) Many PC's already have USB-C 3.1, it's Apple only that finally has added it to their lineup on more than 1 device.

2) The new pro 450 GPU is apparently VERY similar to the R7 250X, which the (nearly 2-year-old ENTRY level gaming GPU) Nvidia 965M destroys. The Pro 460 may be a close fight.

The 965M is also the GPU in the new Surface Book, and in a 2yr old Razer Blade laptop. There is nothing "specialty" about the 965m. A "specialty" gaming laptop from 2013 would still wipe the floor with the MBP, Apple is just now ALMOST even with a 2014 entry level performance GPU.

1) well your original post was referring to graphics but OK, so you're saying Apple has what many PCs have. i.e. current, not years behind. Great.

2) So is your complaint the choice of AMD vs Nvidia graphics? You said years behind yet the RX 460 was just launched in August of this year. It's based upon the latest AMD Polaris architecture with 14nm construction. AMD does have a couple mobile GPU that are more powerful but the power and thermal profiles are much greater too (talking about moving from 35w to 120-150w range, that's a big impact on battery and cooling). It's not going to beat the pants off a Razer Blade with an Nvidia 1080 shoehorned in but it also doesn't weigh 8 pounds. Meanwhile AMD rates this GPU capable of playing games like LoL and DoTA at 60hz 1080p, it's not a shabby GPU and a big leap up from prior generation. As Apple demonstrated in the presentation it is fully capable of 4K video editing and photoshop and is rated to drive two external 5K displays. It sounds like you want a Razor or Alienware product, there are options out there for you. For those of us who want a capable but highly portable device this is an excellent solution.

 

[dannys1]

But again, it's the new iPhone. I shouldn't have to have to go out and buy another dongle to connect with the new Mac Book Pro. YOU may only connect once, but MANY others will do it often. And again, if you're removing ports, why not remove the headphone jack like they did on the iPhone?

They haven't removed any ports on the MacBook Pro though - they've changed ports, but nothing has been removed. At some point you need to make the jump to superior technology and having a tiny reversible connector that can do everything (USB-C) is that technology. Thankfully in 2-3 years when its the only type of connector on everything and we can finally give up on the silly USB-Type A that was horrible when it debuted 15+ years ago.

And there's no need to remove the headphone port cos they didn't need the extra room here, obviously (plus it does digital out on the MacBooks so it is more usable)

 

[deputy_doofy]

But they did last year, and Apple not including them (or Kaby Lake) in this release is an atrocious miss!

They did include Skylake in this release. They said "6th gen," but 6th gen is Skylake.

 

[baller1308]

Although the MacBook keyboard felt odd with the minimal key travel, I was able to type accurately. If the new MBP have more key travel then it will be preferred.

 

[doelcm82]

So why didn't they "rip off the band-aid" for the headphone jack? They could've made it even thinner then! Where's the courage? /s

Great question. I wish they had.

 

[melendezest]

In the long run, it's cheaper for us, too. I remember when soda started coming in 2-liter bottles (in preparation for a gradual shift to the metric system). Thirty years later, Americans know how much two liters are, but we still buy everything else in gallons and quarts. The UK is in the same boat, to a lesser extent, but their gallons and quarts are not even the same as the ones we use in the US (as I found out when I sent a soup recipe to some friends in the UK).

Better to kill USB-A as quickly as possible. Rip that band-aid off.

If computers cost what soda cost, sure.

To do this now is plain irresponsible.

People have thousands of dollars of infrastructure. You cannot replace this on Apple's whim.

How is it that the PC Market understands this?

 

[-hh]

It's $50 more than my identically spec'd 2014 when you factor in inflation.

There really hasn't been much inflation since 2014 ... but within the technology realm, there's also been huge price drops on things like SSDs.

And that's where the 'value' paradigm on the nMBP is going backwards.

For example, look at SSD storage. Apple is asking +$400 to upgrade a 15" from 512GB to 1TB, and $1200 for 512 to 2TB. Paying $400 for a 1TB SSD would have been a deal back in 2014, since at the time, they retailed for over $500. But today, the same component goes for roughly $300 retail.

Similarly, a 2TB SSD today is roughly $600 retail ... but Apple's asking +$1200 (plus the 512GB trade-in) for that upgrade. Sorry, but that's not a good value, especially if you do the math ... ($1200 - ($600-$150)) = $750/unit in additional profit.

And this is merely Moore's Law in action: digital technologies get cheaper over time, so applying the classical GDP-based "Inflation" adjustment factor is, unfortunately, a poor tool to try to assess product value in digital markets.

-hh

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Interesting graphic on the apple page. It shows two monitors and two raid arrays. The implication is this is what you can do with 4xusb-c ports. But where to plug in the power supply?
http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/

The monitor also charges 85w.

 

[Altis]

They haven't removed any ports on the MacBook Pro though - they've changed ports, but nothing has been removed. At some point you need to make the jump to superior technology and having a tiny reversible connector that can do everything (USB-C) is that technology. Thankfully in 2-3 years when its the only type of connector on everything and we can finally give up on the silly USB-Type A that was horrible when it debuted 15+ years ago.

And there's no need to remove the headphone port cos they didn't need the extra room here, obviously (plus it does digital out on the MacBooks so it is more usable)

It wouldn't have killed them to include a single USB-A port so that people can make the transition when their kit and budget dictates.

All the new stuff would be USB-C, but when someone hands you a padlock external hard drive at work, or you want to plug in a mouse/keyboard/printer/thumb drive/camera card adapter/etc, you can do it.

Being way ahead of the curve can be great but since nobody works in isolation, you still need to be able to work with others who haven't and also to be able to use your other gear that hasn't made the upgrade.

There's also a colossal number of devices that are only available in USB-A, many of them specialty devices.

All this for want of a single USB-A port of a computer that costs a small fortune.