New MacBook Pro Has Better Keyboard Than 12-Inch MacBook, But It's Expensive and Lacking Ports

[-hh]

Can't connect to current iPhone (7) without adapter.
Can't use iPhone 7 Lightning headphones without another adapter.
Can't plug in camera cards without adapter.
External monitors will need a another new adapter.
Can't connect just about anything you already own without an adapter (mouse, keyboard, USB drives/devices/printers).
Costs much more than before.

Agreed, and while using adaptors would not be such a horrific problem if this was a new desktop, ... but this is a portable. That means its a User Experience FAIL even if the adapters were given away for free.

It has WAY more and flexible in out capability than the limited older versions, usb-c/tb3 is the future for macs and for PCs. Learn more about it.
Tired of idi*ts complaining about ports on a computer that has 4 usb-c/thunderbolt3 ports.

Sorry, but a new technology is only desirable to a customer when it has a tangible value-added within their foreseeable future (eg, "Near Term"), and while also having acceptable legacy trade-offs.

The problem with Thunderbolt and USB-C is that while there is a technology potential, it has been struggling for adoption and relevance since it first debuted in 2011. Its adoption has been hindered by it being significantly more expensive than alternatives such as USB3, as well as by itself being changed (TB1, TB2, USB-C/TB3): early adopters who could have helped promote the technology have gotten burned.

As such, you can't really blame customers for sitting back on its adoption so as to mitigate their risks.

Unfortunately, the MBP's design decisions make it yet another Apple "blindly drive the car off the cliff" which is a Customer Experience FAIL. For example, there's some USB-C adaptors which have been missing for a year now (yes, since the MB shipped), which means that those "it can do all the old stuff, and more" claims are false.

Apple's choice of DDR3 RAM over DDR4 RAM is also another slap in the face for such an expensive laptop.

As is also that supposedly a PRO machine is max'ed out at only 16GB RAM.

Apple will not have any of my money for quite some time. Bummer.

Same here. None of these MBP's can cut what I need as a cMP desktop replacement, so my path forward is more likely to ditch Apple for my content creation and spend $5K for a Windows HP Workstation ($3K less than what it would take to adequately equip a "Trash Can").

And if I had to get a Mac laptop today, I'd choose the non-retina Air over any of these. I'll spend the money saved by getting a Canon 5D Mk4 camera body instead.


-hh

 

[melendezest]

I love my iPhone (6s) and iPad, but I continue to use Windows (desktop and laptop). Yes the first iteration of a merged (keyboard and touchscreen) Windows in Windows 8 was brutal, but I think Microsoft is on the right track that a keyboard centric operating system and a touch centric operating system can co-exist. Windows 10 is much better than Windows 8, I'm sure Windows 11 will be even better. Apple is wrong that the two types of operating systems can't coexist, Microsoft is proving them wrong.

EXACTLY.

There is NO reason (aside from what I've stated before regarding profits from 2 separate products and my conspiracy theory ) that we can't see, say, a convertible Apple device that runs iOS in Tablet mode and macOS in laptop mode.

Tell me it wouldn't be awesome to have an iMac that behaves like iOS with the Apple Pencil when you pull the screen towards you, a-la Surfase Studio, and a Mac when you push it back. Apple controls a Ax chips dammit. Just put one in and bam. Instead, we get this comparably limited touchbar. F****!.

That's the direction I would take Apple. But nope. Apple has made it clear time and again: they'll NEVER do this.

And here I thought Apple started to listen to customers when they built the iPad mini and the big-screen iPhone. So much for that...

 

[VulchR]

So, one has to buy a cable to connect an iPhone to the new MacBook Pro. OK, Apple, you are supposedly providing us the latest and greatest in technology, and hence the high cost. So where is the wireless charging device on the MacBook Pro that would allow an iPhone to be charge when it is in the vicinity of the computer? For the kind of price being charged, I'd expect a little more than what's on offer.

 

[Rafterman]

Interesting thought. Apple seems to be moving everything to USB-C. Will future iPhones ship with a USB-C/lightning cable to match their own hardware, or keep shipping USB 2.0 cables to maintain compatibility with, well, the rest of the world.

 

[talkybear]

A better keyboard than the worst keyboard isn't really an achievement to brag about

 

[doelcm82]

USB-C is the norm now. More Powerful and efficient in every way compared to the other ports. I have no problem making the jump.
I don't buy dongles, I buy devices and there are a lot of old hardware and traditional hard drives in my room that will get dropped. The only thing old that I will keep will be the Macs I patch.

I would buy dongles rather than replace my peripherals, but any new peripherals I buy would be USB-C.

The new MBP is not lacking ports. It has four ports that can be used for just about anything, from power to video to data, and often more than one thing at the same time. This is what innovation really looks like ("there is no step 3"). I'm not going to miss having separate types of cables for each purpose. I'd like to see Lightning be the next to go.

I hope USB-C is the real deal. I wouldn't mind having power and data hardwired in standard wall sockets. You wouldn't need a brick, a wart, or a dongle. Just a cable, and the same cable could be used for Macs, iMacs, iPhones, iPads, Android phones, Windows laptops, etc. I feel sorry for those who invested in USB-A power outlets. Of course wireless power could make that one cable go away, too.

 

[melendezest]

I don't understand why so many people keep complaining about MagSafe. Yes, it was awesome when it was introduced, when you could barely squeeze 3 hours out of a charge. Now we can get 10 hours out of a charge. I rarely see people plugged in at cafes; I'm one of the only people who has to as I'm still on a 2011 MacBook Pro. I've been working from cafes for the past 4 years, and no one has ever tripped over my cord. Not once.

MagSafe is a niche feature that the average person just doesn't need. But if you're in that niche, you can get the Griffin BreakSafe.

There is literally no reason to complain about it.

Yes there is. You're looking at it the wrong way, I think.

The question truly is: Why was MagSafe put in in the first place, as in, what problem did it solve?

The answer to that question has now been reintroduced to all Apple's portables.

 

[gbc204]

Personally, I still greatly miss the softer feel of the silver keyboard in the on the 2007-era macbooks. That commercial they made for this just made me miss it all the more when it flashed on screen.

 

[DudeDad]

The stupidity/absurdity of the ports is the only reason I didn't order one.

Keep the headphone jack out of the iPhone but leave it in the Macbook, continue to use the garbage known as Lightning in iPhone rather than USB-C....do they just roll dice and arrive at these nonsensical decisions?

So you spend and extra $25 and get a usb-c to lightning port....see the forest for the trees

 

[dannys1]

Hmm, Apple sells a touch screen device, so I'm a bit tired of the "smudges" trope.

This TouchBar is also made of glass, so wouldn't it get smudgy too?

It's a lame excuse. And it's literally mm away from the screen you would touch, should they make a real touchscreen. How much effort does it take to move your hand from the touchbar to the screen, really? I don't buy Apple's kool-aid here.

Apple will never make a touchscreen Mac because:

1. It would rather sell you 2 devices (and thus double the profits) instead of one.

2. They don't want to retool macOS for touch, because they already did: iOS. Watch the original iPhone keynote again...

3. They took "computer" out of their name around that time for a reason, and Steve Jobs himself stated that the Mac was the only device they made that fit the computer category, becaaaaause...

4. Apple will kill the Mac. iOS is the future in Apple's eyes. It's the end-game.
[doublepost=1477678296][/doublepost]

You're missing it: "The iPad Pro is all you need" -Tim Cook, CEO of Apple Inc.

But a touch screen device is supposed to be touched, thus I accept the smudges - I don't want them all over my actual computer screen which I spend HOURS not minutes a day looking like i do my iPhone or iPad.

Also reaching forwards and up is horrible and un-natural - i've tried it with the iPad Pro in the keyboard case, its horrible. The touch strip is in a natural location and it doesn't matter about finger prints because you're not staring at it and relying on it for work. Imagine trying to do colour correction on a screen thats covered in your greasy finger prints. No thanks.

macOS should never ever been changed for touch, it works perfectly for me the way it is. iOS does need improving but yes, that is the touch OS - and the two should continue to work together more and more, but I want a device that excels at very specific tasks, which I why I buy a device for each thing I want to do - I do not want an all in one jack of all trades - I couldn't think of anything worse than that Surface Book thing.

But hey, thats why we have choice, if you want a touch screen laptop, go and buy one - as you said macOS doesn't' have any touch elements anyway. But for me the Touch Bar just killed any advantage to being able to interact with the screen anyway and I can't wait to get mine. Enjoy whatever you buy!

 

[melendezest]

Late 2011 MBP, I love you. Don't ever leave me.

LOLOLOL. Thank you for that...I feel the same way.

 

[doelcm82]

I hear some people freaking out about the keyboard, but I guess it depends on where you're coming from. I haven't been using a computer for going on 5 years now. I've been using an iPad exclusively. I've gotten used to, and quite good at typing on the iPad virtual keyboard. So going to the keyboard on the MacBook or these new MacBook pros is no big deal for me. Feels absolutely springy to me. But others coming from the old butterfly keyboards may feel differently.

Someone coming from an IBM Selectric keyboard would call the 2012 rMBP's keys "chiclets". It will be a while before haptics can duplicate that solid thunk of feedback when the font ball whips around to the correct character and then violently impacts the paper through the carbon ribbon (or the sticky tape for when you have to back up and lift the letter right off the page).

 

[forbegos34]

I don't understand the fuss about the pricing. It seems to be mostly in line with the previous (and earlier) generations?

Yes, with nothing really better and technology gets cheaper over time. That is the fuss. What about touch? Base 16GB? 250GB HDD?

 

[ryannel2003]

This machine is perfect for me. I've always purchased Pro's as main computers because the Air's screen is so bad. I don't need the extra processing power. I don't plug devices into my current Pro and the price, while high, didn't deter me away from buying one.

 

[w00master]

But a touch screen device is supposed to be touched, thus I accept the smudges - I don't want them all over my actual computer screen which I spend HOURS not minutes a day looking like i do my iPhone or iPad.

Also reaching forwards and up is horrible and un-natural - i've tried it with the iPad Pro in the keyboard case, its horrible. The touch strip is in a natural location and it doesn't matter about finger prints because you're not staring at it and relying on it for work. Imagine trying to do colour correction on a screen thats covered in your greasy finger prints. No thanks.

macOS should never ever been changed for touch, it works perfectly for me the way it is. iOS does need improving but yes, that is the touch OS - and the two should continue to work together more and more, but I want a device that excels at very specific tasks, which I why I buy a device for each thing I want to do - I do not want an all in one jack of all trades - I couldn't think of anything worse than that Surface Book thing.

But hey, thats why we have choice, if you want a touch screen laptop, go and buy one - as you said macOS doesn't' have any touch elements anyway. But for me the Touch Bar just killed any advantage to being able to interact with the screen anyway and I can't wait to get mine. Enjoy whatever you buy!

Enjoy yet another dongle to connect your iPhone 7 to your new MacBook Pro.

But hey, at least you'll be able to use your old wired headphones though!

 

[JustaTecho]

The stupidity/absurdity of the ports is the only reason I didn't order one.

Keep the headphone jack out of the iPhone but leave it in the Macbook, continue to use the garbage known as Lightning in iPhone rather than USB-C....do they just roll dice and arrive at these nonsensical decisions?

While I am not fan of the ports decisions, i think it probably makes sense to some degree to keep the standard headset port on a laptop... People tend to plug in computers speakers to laptops, not just headphones... I guess the argument could be made the other way, but at the end of the day it doesn't really bother me...

 

[apusateri]

Or you could just buy a hub? No one in their right mind would buy 4 adapters instead of a hub. Guess it's easier to create memes about hypothetical situations and winge than to accept you're overreacting to Apple pushing a superior technology forward. Did you also make memes when Apple dropped Firewire?

When Apple dropped:

• Firewire
• LAN Connection
• Disc Drive
• Matte Screen
• etc...

Lots of complaining in all these threads about the move to USB-C and the removal of things like the SD Card Reader. There are always going to be complaints about removing old technology and replacing it with new - but eventually you'll catch up and realize that maybe it's not so bad after all.

Don't get me wrong, I was underwhelmed by the release yesterday, too - but not to the point where I'm saying "Let's drop Apple and go to MS" - I used Windows for long enough to not want to go back.

 

[melendezest]

Yes, however the redesign is what delayed the MBP. It make little sense to release a spec bump then redesign it the next year without anything processing wise to upgrade as well.
Also it has been said 100 of times the high powered Kaby Lake chips are not available yet until 1st quarter 2017.



There are hundreds of devices in USB-C from Monitors to Flash drives. Numerous adapter cheaper than Apple's as well. Almost every single Android device use it now too. And Apple isn't the only company putting USB-C on their computers. New technology in general always start off expensive. My cousin just bought a 32 GB SanDisk Ultra Dual USB Drive 3.0 for $18 which was the same price my now useless 4 GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive back years back.

The key line in his post is this:

"And outside the the Apple kool-aid-addict-club, computers sold in 2016 have a nice mix of USB-A and USB-C ports."

To soon for Apple to give us just the one type, but it IS cheaper for them to do so.

 

[ghanwani]

Interesting thought. Apple seems to be moving everything to USB-C. Will future iPhones ship with a USB-C/lightning cable to match their own hardware, or keep shipping USB 2.0 cables to maintain compatibility with, well, the rest of the world.

Definitely USB-C. Almost all new laptops have it.

 

[riffcat]

"fingerprints" are your only reasoning for not going touchscreen, yet have no problems with phones and tablets?

I've been using touchscreens now for a little while. They work very well even on laptops. and for the things that they demo'd the touchbar far, they work exactly the same way. just, live, right in your program, instead of down. Thus, you can actually look at your program and what you're doing, and not down at a touch strip to see what yo're actually pressing.

the Oled touchbar is cool. I actually do like it. But lets not pretend that it's some magical new thing here. It's an attempt by apple to give "touchscreen" like functionality without walking back on their words. meanwhile, every other vendor offers touchscreens that sell well

And yes, it's a skylake processor. Procreassor upgrades don't generally cause the overall device price to go up by large amounts. It's a replacement part, not an additivie part. You're not charging haswell + skylake CPU prices. You're taking Haswell completely out and putting in a Skylake CPU. The difference in part price between Haswell and Skylake isn't $500. In fact, Intel has generally lowered prices from previous. Even fi thats not the case here, replacing Haswell with Skylake isn't a $500 upgrade.

Thunderbolt 3/USB-C is nice. But it's driven by the CPU here, Apple didn't suddenly do anything to add it. In fact, they took out other technologies such as SD card, MagSafe, HDMI, etc. the overall costs to have 4 of the exact same port and nothing else is lower, than to have to manufacture multiple ports AND the controllers for each.

The RAM itself isn't necessarily going to be faster. Reports show that it's still using DDR3 and not DDR4 ram. However, in most testing, RAM speed is still not that integral. most DDR and DDR4 ram behaves similarly.

the keyboard is not necessarily "Better" either. There are many people who cannot stand the new butterfly mechanism. And if it's anything like the MacBook keyboard, i'm right out. Cannot type on that thing, and I'm a touch typist who can type on most keyboards at 100+ WPM.

at the end of the day, many of these "upgrades" that you list, the Bluetooth, the graphics, etc. are not additive upgrades but replacement upgrades. Either they replaced an older tech, or they are substitute for.

At the end of the day, the $500 extra doesn't feel justified. at least to me. and "it's slimmer!" isn't worth $500 if it means cutting out other things. This is supposed to be a "pro" laptop. Where "thinness" is NOT the #1 factor.

as iv'e said. This is a great laptop. It's not worth $500 extra over previous generations, but a good laptop. Just not the revolutionary product Apple is marketing it as

Well, said. Your processor and ram comments were spot on. Basically we are paying 500 for aesthetics and forced convergence that most of us included Apple are not ready.

 

[w00master]

While I am not fan of the ports decisions, i think it probably makes sense to some degree to keep the standard headset port on a laptop... People tend to plug in computers speakers to laptops, not just headphones... I guess the argument could be made the other way, but at the end of the day it doesn't really bother me...

It doesn't bother you that you also need a dongle for the iPhone 7 for the new Macbook Pro?

 

[bighype]

Mac is dead RIP Mac.

“I think if you’re looking at a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?”
– Tim Cook, talking about the iPad Pro

 

[devasan]

I don't understand why so many people keep complaining about MagSafe. Yes, it was awesome when it was introduced, when you could barely squeeze 3 hours out of a charge. Now we can get 10 hours out of a charge. I rarely see people plugged in at cafes; I'm one of the only people who has to as I'm still on a 2011 MacBook Pro. I've been working from cafes for the past 4 years, and no one has ever tripped over my cord. Not once.

MagSafe is a niche feature that the average person just doesn't need. But if you're in that niche, you can get the Griffin BreakSafe.

There is literally no reason to complain about it.

You have no clue about real world battery use. I can easily use up my battery in my fairly new MBP in 2 hours using hungry applications. My laptop is plugged in much of the time in cafes and at least 50% of the other folks in the cafe are also plugged in. It is hard to find plugs... so cords are often running across the floor and the Magsafe has saved my laptop from harm at least a dozen times. Plus there is the peace of mind knowing if someone trips on it, there is no harm possible. With the new machine I would not leave the cord in places I currently am comfortable doing.

And using something like the BreakSafe has its own clumsiness. The small piece sticks out from the laptop. If you leave it on, it catches on things. If you take it off, it can easily fall off somewhere without realizing and you then don't have it. It also costs $40... Apple didn't reduce the price by $40 because of the functionality they removed.

The new MBP 15" is frighteningly expensive. I looked up last night and I have to buy 3 adapters to have the functionality that is lost in the new machine. So not only is the new machine considerably more expensive, but it will cost an additional $150 in adapters.

I constantly use the SD slot, the HDMI connector for projectors, and both USB-A ports for all sorts of stuff. I regularly connect to a couple dozen different devices in multiple locations. The new MBP does not connect to a single device that I now use. Not a single one. Connectivity wise, it is completely utterly useless without buying additional stuff which has to be remembered, kept track of and carried around at all times.

The whole thing of thinness is a lie... with the additional hardware I would have to carry around, it is fatter and bulkier and even more crap to get tangled in my bag...

I'm planning to buy another of the previous models as a back-up in case my current one fails for some reason.

I also make purchasing recommendations for a few organizations. I told them that if they are considering laptop purchases, to got get the current model asap while they are still available because the new ones are far less practical for real world use.

 

[Johnny907]

It's interesting how some are trying to point to the ever increasing shipping delays as proof the new MBP is going to be popular. It's pretty clear given the 2-3 week delay at launch that there were already supply issues for this thing before the keynote even began, so one has to ask are they really popular or is the fact that supply is so constrained that Apple can't supply their own stores at launch more indicative of issues at Apple than demand from consumers?

Given the recent delays with the Airpods and BeatsX, one has to wonder what Tim is doing these days. When a man who has been lauded over and over again by his peers for being such a great logistics man can't keep his own shelves stocked, there's something rotten in Denmark.

 

[dannys1]

Enjoy yet another dongle to connect your iPhone 7 to your new MacBook Pro.

But hey, at least you'll be able to use your old wired headphones though!

There's no need for a dongle, i've already got the USB-C cable for the ONE time a year I connect my phone to the computer (to back it up before I sell it) - I'll be all USB-C within the next week and totally forgotten about those awful USB-A cables I had to deal with for years.