New MacBook Pro Has Better Keyboard Than 12-Inch MacBook, But It's Expensive and Lacking Ports

[w00master]

And there's no need to remove the headphone port cos they didn't need the extra room here, obviously (plus it does digital out on the MacBooks so it is more usable)

So, no courage then? Why not make it thinner? Courage? Yeah, sure... looks like they wimped out for the MacBook pro.

And sorry, yes they did remove ports. Replacing implies removing. Also, I ask again, why should I get yet another dongle for an iPhone I JUST PURCHASED for the NEW MACBOOK PRO?

 

[ChrisCW11]

If there is one thing that I will defend in Apple, I know, shocking, it they are brave enough to cut legacy tech out of their products.

Having 1, 2 or 4 thunderbird ports, sure, whatever. They are all USB-C in physical format and I like the idea that we finally have a serial bus capable of delivering rich multimedia and high speed data so that we don't need a proprietary port for every friggin standard the IEEE pulls out of their asses every year. Also devices should be able to adapt to each other and pick the right protocol, rather than users agonizing over what connector to use. I mean why do some laptops still have VGA and HDMI and Display Port! Pick a ****ing standard already.

At some point, someone has to jump in with a product that is intended for the future and yes, there will be a painful transition period where people don't have all the right bits and bobs to connect their devices to and this means they need special dongles or specialized adapters.

But seriously, when was the LAST time you plugged in a printer? I haven't printed anything for 5 years and the last time I did it was wirelessly on my iPad. Why do you have a wired keyboard or mouse connected to a laptop? I know Apple makes **** wireless peripherals that last only a few days, but my wireless Microsoft keyboard and mouse last over a year on a couple of AA's. Hell I can even mirror my computer wirelessly on my 4 year old Samsung TV.

My one criticism is that Apple still hangs on to the lightning port, but I think that will be gone on iPhone 8 and future iPad's, hopefully. Why have courage and removing one device hole and then hang on to some proprietary mistake made years ago.

At least Apple offers more than one port on their new "pro" computers, for those that are in love of device S&M and bondage and feel they need to tie cords around their laptop, they have the option if they choose to.

There are so many other valid criticisms about new Macbook Pro that, just like the iPhone's 7 missing headphone jack, the port criticism is actually pretty tiresome.

Also if you have to bitch about a $40 dongle attached to your new $3500, get a bloody clue buddy.

 

[Smoovejayy]

USB-C is the norm now. More Powerful and efficient in every way compared to the other ports. I have no problem making the jump.
I don't buy dongles, I buy devices and there are a lot of old hardware and traditional hard drives in my room that will get dropped. The only thing old that I will keep will be the Macs I patch.

This. I understand that making this purchase will require you to adapt, whether it be buy new cables, drop accessories, etc. but it is the way of the future. I'd rather have four ports that are multifunctional than have soon-to-be deprecated ports that require dongles nonetheless. After your transition period, I'm sure you will appreciate Apple forcing you in this direction. IMO, you will be ready for what's to come.

 

[macsrcool1234]

So you spend and extra $25 and get a usb-c to lightning port....see the forest for the trees

$50 for USB-C to Thunderbolt 2
$20 for USB-C to USB
$25 for USB-C to Lightning
$70 for USB-C to HDMI
$70 for USB-C to VGA

Nah, im good

 

[w00master]

This. I understand that making this purchase will require you to adapt, whether it be buy new cables, drop accessories, etc. but it is the way of the future. I'd rather have four ports that are multifunctional than have soon-to-be deprecated ports that require dongles nonetheless. After your transition period, I'm sure you will appreciate Apple forcing you in this direction. IMO, you will be ready for what's to come.

So why not remove the headphone jack? Where's the courage?

 

[macsrcool1234]

When Apple dropped:

• Firewire
• LAN Connection
• Disc Drive
• Matte Screen
• etc...

Lots of complaining in all these threads about the move to USB-C and the removal of things like the SD Card Reader. There are always going to be complaints about removing old technology and replacing it with new - but eventually you'll catch up and realize that maybe it's not so bad after all.

Don't get me wrong, I was underwhelmed by the release yesterday, too - but not to the point where I'm saying "Let's drop Apple and go to MS" - I used Windows for long enough to not want to go back.

Apple dropped those things one at a time. Here, they made everything obsolete in one go.

 

[chromite]

So my Macbook Pro 15 inch model from Late-2013 has the same exact Intel Quad-core i7 as the newest released Macbook Pro 15 inch model ... BUT OMG OMG OMG I CAN PUT EMOTICONS IN MY PROFESSIONAL WORK MUCH EASIER.

The CPU in the new MacBook Pro came out last year therefore making it impossible for your MacBook Pro that came out in 2013 to have the same CPU. Nice try troll.

 

[melendezest]

Let's start with what I agree with you about:

The Lightning headphones -- not only can you not connect without an adapter, NO ADAPTER EXISTS!

I agree it might have been too soon to pull the SD card slot, especially since there appears to be plenty of room for it.

As for the rest, this has always been the case with Apple that buying the next generation Macs required eliminating most, if not all of the previous gear. So I don't really see this as a problem. It's just part of owning a Mac.

But with respect to the charging cable, I think Apple made the right choice. To put this into perspective:

The iPhone 7 is going to sell over 200 million iPhone 7, not to mention the over half-a-billion Lightning devices already out there the same cable can be used with.

Apple will likely sell around 20 million Macs, all together, this year -- not just the new USB-C models. Compared to the installed base of maybe 100 million, maybe 10% of all Macs sold by the end of the year will have USB-C only ports. So that works out to be something like 2% of all iOS users may be using a USB-C Mac by the time the next iPhone comes out.

So instead of Apple supplying them with a cable on the less than 2% chance they will buy a new Mac, they continued to supply the vast majority of customers a cable that will be most useful in all of the environments they may encounter throughout their day.

I don't disagree that supplying a $4 adapter from USB-A to USB-C with the MacBook would have eased the transition, but I also don't agree with Apple supplying adapters in the first place. I think including a 3.5mm adapter with the iPhone 7 was a mistake, especially now that the AirPods have been delayed since it encourages people to keep using old 3.5mm equipment.

With the MBP, it might encourage people to keep using cheap adapters (which could lead to other problems) rather than buying the correct cables and equipment for the new MBP.

You fail to see the fatal flaw in your logic:

Apple is the source of all the problems that need mitigation here.

It is anti-consumer, yet popular as all get out. No wonder their decision-makers are so far out of touch.

People like Apple products so much that they defend even the most obvious bull**t decisions Apple makes.

 

[seanbperiod]

I'm sure I'm saying what everybody else has been saying for 6 pages:

While I admire the future-proofing with providing 4 thunderbolt ports- why couldn't a usb3 or usb c port be included? The reason why I purchased my first Macbook Pro was because it had ALL THE PORTS!!!

- Why bother including a headphone port when you supposedly said they were obsolete with the iPhone 7?
- Why can't I plugin in any other Apple branded device directly into the computer without having to purchase additional accessories?
- Why can't I plugin in ANY other device without using a dongle?
- Why are these accessories not included with the laptop?
- What regular user even has 4 thunderbolt devices to plug into the laptop at one time?!
- How much **** do I have to carry around with me when I'm out with my laptop and a friend needs to hook up their external or thumb drive to make sure it can connect to the damn computer?
- Will they continue to sell the legacy non-retina MBP so people can purchase a laptop that works with their stuff?
- Why not include Kaby Lake with the 13" pros?

That said, I think the touchbar is an innovative move since I rarely use F keys- it definitely makes that space more useable and will be super helpful in tasks like photoshop and gaming. Hopefully the API is open enough so that anyone can make it function how they want- including apps that allows the end user to customize the experience.

 

[AppleFan1179]

With the MBP, it might encourage people to keep using cheap adapters (which could lead to other problems) rather than buying the correct cables and equipment for the new MBP.

I've got news for you. You are going to be carrying around an adapter for as long as you own one of these new machines.

 

[Smoovejayy]

So why not remove the headphone jack? Where's the courage?

Hahaha I definitely didn't understand why they kept the headphone jack. If you remove it from one device, just remove it from all. I guess just a better reason to get better bluetooth headphones so I don't have to deal with keeping different kinds of headphones.

 

[0092762]

We have a 12" Macbook in the house. I don't use it often but the keyboard is fine. I tried the 2015 model in the store and I was disgusted by it, but the 2016 model Macbook keyboard is one that you can get used to within a day.

File the keyboard under not an issue. The biggest reason why I did not order the new MBP is Skylake. I won't pay premium prices for a Skylake CPU.

 

[AppleFan1179]

Hahaha I definitely didn't understand why they kept the headphone jack. If you remove it from one device, just remove it from all. I guess just a better reason to get better bluetooth headphones so I don't have to deal with keeping different kinds of headphones.

Beats by Apple makes more sense every day...

 

[doelcm82]

If computers cost what soda cost, sure.

To do this now is plain irresponsible.

People have thousands of dollars of infrastructure. You cannot replace this on Apple's whim.

How is it that the PC Market understands this?

The "dongles" will get people with existing infrastructure through the transition. But if you build a USB-A port into the laptop, then when it comes time to buy a new peripheral some people will likely just go with what they know. We'll be stuck supporting hard drives measured in gallons for the next three decades.

The PC industry is a number of different players who are competing more directly with each other. Apple is in a better position to effect a change like this than any single PC manufacturer.

 

[0092762]

This is so stupid, especially the 4x$19 USB adapter part.
You only need one, at most two adapters if you use Displayport/TB.

You can get a combination HDMI + 3xUSB adapter for 30 bucks.

 

[Mac 128]

You fail to see the fatal flaw in your logic:

Apple is the source of all the problems that need mitigation here.

It is anti-consumer, yet popular as all get out. No wonder their decision-makers are so far out of touch.

People like Apple products so much that they defend even the most obvious bull**t decisions Apple makes.

Well, I was critical of Apple as well in my post. Regardless, I disagree that Apple is the cause. The people who would continue using the same old technology until the end of time are the one's who are creating the problem. USB-C is a much better connector than the myriad of USB connectors currently in use. Apple is only encouraging others to move in that direction, where they would otherwise maintain the status quo to their own detriment and Apple's as a competitive tech company.

I've got news for you. You are going to be carrying around an adapter for as long as you own one of these new machines.

Why, because no other manufacturers are going to adopt USB-C? Whats the basis for you claim?

Hahaha I definitely didn't understand why they kept the headphone jack. If you remove it from one device, just remove it from all. I guess just a better reason to get better bluetooth headphones so I don't have to deal with keeping different kinds of headphones.

The reason is that the USB-C MBs only accounts for about 2% of the global iPhone market, of which the iPhone 7 accounts for an even slimmer piece of that pie. Removing the headphone jack when most of the rest of the Apple user base is still using wired headphones would be a poor move, especially when it forces the introduction of yet another digital audio standard (USB-C), whether they are ready to toss Lightning yet or not, and they aren't even able to deliver on the new W1 chipped headphones that will make using wireless audio realistic for most people.

 

[tkukoc]

Number 1 reason not to switch to the new pro from a macbook 12 retina.. macbook 12 retina is fanless and ultra quiet.. Once you use a machine like this, there's zero reason to use anything with a fan in it. That alone has me staying away from the Pro series. I was hoping they would be fanless as well, though I wouldn't buy at the prices they are asking anyway.

 

[JustaTecho]

It doesn't bother you that you also need a dongle for the iPhone 7 for the new Macbook Pro?

Let me put it this way... It doesn't make me happy to have to go and spend money on silly little adapters, BUT at the end of the day, this is a little inconvenience for the short run...

As for this purchase, I got what i wanted, I upgraded from a mid 2012 MBA, I got more memory, more space, better screen, much faster processor, much better battery life... I really HOPED for a SD Card Slot, because it makes offloading pictures / videos from my Camera cards easier, but i didn't get it... So i will buy some sort of adapter... I did buy a dongle to adapt my OLD USB cable to a new USB cable... In all honesty, i will probably buy several over the next few years because i forgot one or lost one, or what ever... **** happens life goes on... I made a choice to migrate to the apple ecco system years ago, and i accept the good with the bad, for me it's more good than bad... Apple continually changes, they gave up on the headphone port on the new phone, they quit using floppies more than a decade ago, they quit using CD/DVD 6 years ago. This is one of many changes that will happen that will probably cause me to say dang it apple, and move on...

Oh PS yippie they finally gave up on 5400 rpm drives, isn't somebody going to complain about that?

 

[melendezest]

The "dongles" will get people with existing infrastructure through the transition. But if you build a USB-A port into the laptop, then when it comes time to buy a new peripheral some people will likely just go with what they know. We'll be stuck supporting hard drives measured in gallons for the next three decades.

The PC industry is a number of different players who are competing more directly with each other. Apple is in a better position to effect a change like this than any single PC manufacturer.

That is the most Apple-apologetic response I've ever heard.

So, Apple is right in moving the industry forward by telling the customer f** you and pay more for our machine, and get these dongles here that we'll sell to you for $50 a piece to replace the built-in functionality we had in our previous machines.

Right. I'll pass on the kool-aid, thanks.

BTW, USB-A will not go away for years. YEARS.

You know what also hasn't and won't go away any time far?

Ethernet. SD Cards. HDMI. The benefit of having MagSafe.

People will start noticing that this is BS and will stop buying their products.

Sorry, but the Retina MBP and even more so the cMBPs are better machines than this new, thinner "Pro".

 

[AppleFan1179]

Why, because no other manufacturers are going to adopt USB-C? Whats the basis for you claim?

Pretty simple really. I'm betting every single person in this thread...nay...that browses this site, has a USB device they'd like to plug in to that computer. I mean ****, do you own an iPhone? What if you are out and about and someone hands you a thumb drive that you need a file from? If you own one of these, YOU WILL own a USB-A adapter. You'll probably leave the store with the USB-C/AV adapter that includes HDMI.

 

[katbel]

If you want to use older accessories
... customers will have to purchase adapters to connect certain devices and accessories.

Steve Kovach at Business Insider said the need for "a lot of dongles" is "the most frustrating thing" about the new MacBook Pro:The new MacBook Pro is also expensive, although the non-Touch Bar model is slightly more affordable at $1,499. The non-Touch Bar model is currently available for pre-order and ships in 1 business day. Touch Bar models start at $1,799 and $2,399 for the 13-inch and 15-inch models respectively and ship in 4-5 weeks.

older accessories ?Do you call iPhone 6s and 7 , iPad Pro older accessories?
crazy
p.s. BTW going around with a MacBook Pro and a lot more cables and adapters does it make it better ? Steve Jobs would have hated

 

[Geordiekeith]

We have a 12" Macbook in the house. I don't use it often but the keyboard is fine. I tried the 2015 model in the store and I was disgusted by it, but the 2016 model Macbook keyboard is one that you can get used to within a day.

File the keyboard under not an issue. The biggest reason why I did not order the new MBP is Skylake. I won't pay premium prices for a Skylake CPU.

I prefer to listen to Jason Snell's analysis on Six Colors [https://sixcolors.com/post/2016/10/some-more-hands-on-experience-with-the-new-macbook-pros/]...

Well, it’s my sad duty to report that the MacBook Pro keyboard has the same key travel as the MacBook. Apple says the stainless steel dome switch beneath each key has been honed to give you a more responsive feel, but to me it feels just like the MacBook’s keyboard. (To be fair, I don’t have a MacBook available to test directly. It’s possible that this keyboard does indeed feel more responsive than the MacBook, but I would never mistake it for the old MacBook Pro or MacBook Air keyboards or even the Magic Keyboard.)

If you like the MacBook’s keyboard, good news! You’re gonna get it. If you don’t like it—well, I don’t know what to tell you. It seems like this is the keyboard style Apple’s going to give us on laptops until the day comes when it does away with physical keys altogether.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

I don't understand the fuss about the pricing. It seems to be mostly in line with the previous (and earlier) generations?

The lower end, in a realistic configuration, has been pushed up by quite a bit. The higher end is more in line with previous generations. The "Mac tax" at the low end is increasing. How much is OS X/macOS worth to you?

And no one was surprised that it was more expensive and lacked ports...

No one was. But, disappointed that an expensive pro machine is lacking basic ports, like, an HDMI port for me to plug in the a meeting room display, and hardwired ethernet. I hate using dongles for basic things. Not to mention the power issue-- a lightweight, portable USB-C docking station wouldn't have enough power for many ports through the USB-C.

Not to mention graphics power that is years behind, even in the top of the line $4k 15"er. To bump up the little 13"er pushes you close to $2500.

If you are talking about the new AMD Polaris GPUs, I don't understand the criticism. Looks to me like they should have excellent performance for the power draw. Nvidia's new 1060-1080 "mobile" GPUs are very power intensive. What are you comparing?
[doublepost=1477687072][/doublepost]

USB-C is a much better connector than the myriad of USB connectors currently in use. Apple is only encouraging others to move in that direction, where they would otherwise maintain the status quo to their own detriment and Apple's as a competitive tech company.

I think USB-C has a serious flaw, in that it depends on the cable for safety and reliability. That should have been built in to the host port, not rely on the cable:

Source: http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/4/10916264/usb-c-russian-roulette-power-cords

 

[DrSkywalker]

Apple provided the media with demo units of the new MacBook Pro sans Touch Bar, and a handful of websites have now published their early thoughts and first impressions about the 13-inch notebook. The articles reveal some interesting tidbits beyond yesterday's Touch Bar model hands-on and first impressions roundups.

While the new MacBook Pro's keyboard is a controversial topic, with some users preferring Apple's traditional scissor design, most reviews said Apple's second-generation butterfly mechanism offers an improved typing experience compared to the 12-inch MacBook's first-generation butterfly keyboard.

Brian Heater of TechCrunch said the keyboard "feels more natural" and that individual keys have "better give":Jim Dalrymple at The Loop echoed that sentiment, noting there is "a little more travel distance when you press down on a key":

Stuart Miles of Pocket-lint said the new keyboard is sandwiched between "louder, clearer, and cleaner" speakers with bass-heavier sound:Likewise, Heater said the speakers deliver richer sound than before, noting that "things get loud. Really, really loud."Dan Ackerman at CNET said the new non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro might be "the new default MacBook for most people," although its price is disappointing:

Meanwhile, Andrew Cunningham at Ars Technica highlighted the new MacBook Pro's brighter display and wider DCI-P3 color gamut:Cunningham added that the new MacBook Pro scales to 1,440×900 pixels out of the box, which makes it look like it has a higher screen resolution:Cunningham said making comparisons between the new MacBook Pro and MacBook Air is "understandable but flawed." He argued "it's only really a comparison that works when all else is equal," which is not the case given the new MacBook Pro is upwards of $500 more expensive than the remaining 13-inch MacBook Air.

Dana Wollman at Engadget applauded the new MacBook Pro's smaller footprint, particularly compared to the MacBook Air:One aspect of the new MacBook Pro often criticized is its lack of ports. The non-Touch Bar model has only two Thunderbolt 3 ports, which carry power, USB, DisplayPort, HDMI, and VGA for video out over a single port. As with the 12-inch MacBook, customers will have to purchase adapters to connect certain devices and accessories.

Steve Kovach at Business Insider said the need for "a lot of dongles" is "the most frustrating thing" about the new MacBook Pro:The new MacBook Pro is also expensive, although the non-Touch Bar model is slightly more affordable at $1,499. The non-Touch Bar model is currently available for pre-order and ships in 1 business day. Touch Bar models start at $1,799 and $2,399 for the 13-inch and 15-inch models respectively and ship in 4-5 weeks.

Article Link: New MacBook Pro Has Better Keyboard Than 12-Inch MacBook, But It's Expensive and Lacking Ports

 

[0092762]

I prefer to listen to Jason Snell's analysis on Six Colors [https://sixcolors.com/post/2016/10/some-more-hands-on-experience-with-the-new-macbook-pros/]...

Well, it’s my sad duty to report that the MacBook Pro keyboard has the same key travel as the MacBook. Apple says the stainless steel dome switch beneath each key has been honed to give you a more responsive feel, but to me it feels just like the MacBook’s keyboard. (To be fair, I don’t have a MacBook available to test directly. It’s possible that this keyboard does indeed feel more responsive than the MacBook, but I would never mistake it for the old MacBook Pro or MacBook Air keyboards or even the Magic Keyboard.)

If you like the MacBook’s keyboard, good news! You’re gonna get it. If you don’t like it—well, I don’t know what to tell you. It seems like this is the keyboard style Apple’s going to give us on laptops until the day comes when it does away with physical keys altogether.

I prefer going to an Apple store and testing it myself. Which is what I did and I'm perfectly fine with the 12" Macbook keyboard. It's an adjustment, but a quick one.