Thanks! As I said in multiple posts, people don't have to agree with Apple's choices and I don't want to convince anyone otherwise. Just understand that some of us like how Apple chose to design these new MacBooks and that we're not "wrong" - just different. Either way, good luck with your new Mac, I hope you enjoy your decision. Just as I hope all those people with Dells here enjoy theirs.
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New MBP price = *speechless*
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Thanks! As I said in multiple posts, people don't have to agree with Apple's choices and I don't want to convince anyone otherwise. Just understand that some of us like how Apple chose to design these new MacBooks and that we're not "wrong" - just different. Either way, good luck with your new Mac, I hope you enjoy your decision. Just as I hope all those people with Dells here enjoy theirs.
This is my first time on a thread outside of my ca forums, but I felt I could make an analogy that can help you understand if it hasn't been clarified. It's like asking a car enthusiast, "well why would you want a 15 year old BMW and not a new one?" For many, the new one seems better on paper: more tech, more power, and a warranty. However the enthusiast would say that they would still prefer the 15 year old BMW for all the intangible qualities that can't be measured on a spec sheet like steering feel and throttle response. Even if they are equal performers (yes 15 yr old car can keep up in some instances), some will prefer a new one, and some will prefer the old one.
Consumers have their preferences. Think of the new BMW as the Dell, and the old one as the Mac. For analogy sake, lets say their the same money. They're both a fair buy for performance, but someone will like the way the 15 year old one reaches that goal. Even though most will prefer a PC as the better buy, some will go for the Mac for those intangibles.
For me, that happens to be the operating system. MacOS is LITERALLY the only thing holding me from switching now. I'm holding on to my top spec 2012 rMBP until Apple rethinks economics. I'm currently in Microeconomics and we all had a good laugh about the pricing when I brought it up. Just as Apple did with the rMBP, I feel the price will fall by at least $100 over the next two years. They should see sales and figure it out. If not, I'll happily make a killer Hackintosh. I am a self employed college student. I could barely reach to buy this computer, and I see it as an excellent value since it still runs as new. That being said, I didn't ask for a thinner, lighter design, and therefore can't just such a large price increase for year old technology.
That is an Apple limitation imposed on an XPS.
Still, I was looking and waiting at getting a new MBP, dropping Windows on it and retiring my Lenovo.
Now, That isn't happening. Can't justify spending the kind of coin and the port(s) on the MBP concern me.
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That was a good example of a personal reason.
Everyone loved the design of the Macbook Air, why not just build off that? Why would Apple take things in such a horrible direction? Do they not see how laughable it is to have to purchase an adapter in order to connect your BRAND NEW iPHONE to your BRAND NEW MACBOOK. You could say "Steve Jobs would have never allowed this" but honestly who in their right mind would?
Honestly just the same thing as 2012 with the first rMBP. Everyone was dumbfounded at first and then people still purchased, prices eventually dropped, and it became widely used.
I'm fine with the new MBP non-TB price. My 2008 unibody MB that I'll be replacing cost $1300 at launch (~$1450 in today's US dollars). I'll need the 16GB upgrade, but if I can get another 8+ years out of it, that's money well spent.
Most people don't need personal computers these days with their phones taking over most pc duties. With less pc's sold it makes sense the prices would go up a little.
Most people don't need personal computers these days with their phones taking over most pc duties. With less pc's sold it makes sense the prices would go up a little.
"Most people don't need personal computers these days with their phones taking over most pc duties. With less pc's sold it makes sense the prices would go up a little."
So, Apple should be generous and make an affordable laptop for its longstanding, loyal customers. They would do well to share at least a little of their wealth.
So, Apple should be generous and make an affordable laptop for its longstanding, loyal customers. They would do well to share at least a little of their wealth.
Why? They're not a charity. Their computers last a long time. Over 8 years for me. That's ~$200 a year over its usable life or $4 a week.
I'm a "pro" user though... no time to be swapping computers and expensive software licenses all the time.
I don't think it would be generous of them.. they'd sell more units and offset the price decrease, and customers would be happier. I can't be the only one who has noticed apple aren't bragging about sales figures lately in their keynotes. But no, greedy Tim can't help himself but price gouge
Keeping your customers happy and satisfied goes a long way and ends up paying big dividends. Dictating how things will be only alienates them.
I'm not sure about that last part. Less units are being sold because they competition from phones/tablets and also because existing computers are lasting long and upgrades are meaning less and less. So users have to be compelled to buy more and more. Making someone feel like they have to fork over ~$3000 just to get a marginal jump in performance and functionality when a few years ago the same basic thing cost the ~$2000 doesn't seem very compelling. Apple might be trying their damnedest to test the profit vs price curve to protect margins, but they risk misjudging it and seeing their already weak sales faulted further, at least after the pent-up-demand purchasing spree exhausts itself.
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Swapping computers and software licenses has gotten really easy these days though. You can back up your old computer, restore a new computer to that back up, then move licenses all in an afternoon. You don't even have to stop work, really, as the old computer isn't tied up and the restoration process is fairly hands off until the software licenses. Some licenses might not transfer to new computers, but many do. Many even allow user accounts you just sign into and off you go as if you just logged into your Facebook page.
And I don't think its about "sharing wealth" its about hitting a higher number of use cases at the appropriate price points. Lots of people love macs, but if all you do is fairly basic office/web use, is it really a worth while added expense to get a macbook pro without the touch bar vs a $300 laptop? Maybe some users would spend an extra $500 for a Mac, but Apple's now asking you to push near $1000 more. So sure $4/week doesn't sounds like a ton (though few users will have the upgrade cycle you have, really its probably more like $10-$20/week), but you have to think on the margins. Is the Mac experience worth an extra, say, $5/week over some pretty decent mid range PCs?
I agree those are the reasons less pc units are being sold. PCs are a very mature technology and the days of incredible progress every couple years are over. If I had a previous generation MBP, there is nothing about the new one that would compel me to buy it. Neither would it simply having a lower price. In my mind the only reasons to upgrade are: it no longer does what you need it to do, and/or there are new features worth paying for. If my old one still does what I need, those new features better be *really* good in order to justify it. I also take pride in using my equipment/tools to the fullest.
For the 13" MBP non-TB, I think apple's US pricing is a little high compared to the other big laptop brands, but mostly competitive for what you get (no interest in the 15" MBP, so I've never looked at their pricing). I also think it's likely the MBPs will come down in price a little like most of their rev-A laptops have. I don't think they'll ever be able to lower mac prices enough to reverse the trend of longer upgrade cycles and convincing people to buy who are happy with their phones/tablets.
I haven't read any of this thread, but I'll put my 2 cents in.
I have the very real belief, that if you are going to make use of it, then get the best/pay more.
I use my computer pretty much everyday, some of which is for work, but mostly to browse/use the net (casual stuff). If my next computer cost £2000, but I pretty much use it everyday, lets say 340 days of the year. And I want it to last me 5 years. i.e. 1700 days. 2000/1700 = £1.17 a day.
This may seem high to some people. But lets be honest. A computer is one of the ultimate technologies. You can use it for entertainment (music, video, games), use it to learn new things and be connected around the world (Internet), use it to make money or even work from home, use it to tell the time, use it for calculations, see the world from your home by viewing shared pictures and movies, draw, paint, edit videos, edit music etc.. etc...
A computer has pretty much replaced the need of so many things. You have infinite possibilities with a computer, you can do so much with it, even if it's just for casual non productive stuff, like music/movies/games/surfing the information highway.
So my point is, to many people this is expensive. But to me, it's a price worth paying for what you ultimately get from a computer.
And let's be honest. The "main" reason I'm getting a new macbook pro is so I can learn SWIFT and use Xcode on it. The honest reason I'm getting it, is because I'm addicted (like a lot of people are), to wanting the latest and greatest tech even though I don't need it. I mean my current laptop (as I await for my new macbook pro), I bought this year brand new from Asus for £160! And it's so zippy and quick for a 2GB ram N3050 cpu machine. The screens crap, but it runs really well, and in reality I could use this lappy for a long time to come for most of my needs; it even played games smoothly on crappy graphics (though I personally hate crappy graphics, they have to be ultra).
Another example is I could have kept my Note 4 which I was mostly happy with and would have lasted me many more years, but then I upgraded it to an Edge 7.
So my other point is. Whether you buy the new macbook because you need it or want it. Just try not to forget how awesome and how far computers have come, and enjoy them. Because they are worth the price.
I have the very real belief, that if you are going to make use of it, then get the best/pay more.
I use my computer pretty much everyday, some of which is for work, but mostly to browse/use the net (casual stuff). If my next computer cost £2000, but I pretty much use it everyday, lets say 340 days of the year. And I want it to last me 5 years. i.e. 1700 days. 2000/1700 = £1.17 a day.
This may seem high to some people. But lets be honest. A computer is one of the ultimate technologies. You can use it for entertainment (music, video, games), use it to learn new things and be connected around the world (Internet), use it to make money or even work from home, use it to tell the time, use it for calculations, see the world from your home by viewing shared pictures and movies, draw, paint, edit videos, edit music etc.. etc...
A computer has pretty much replaced the need of so many things. You have infinite possibilities with a computer, you can do so much with it, even if it's just for casual non productive stuff, like music/movies/games/surfing the information highway.
So my point is, to many people this is expensive. But to me, it's a price worth paying for what you ultimately get from a computer.
And let's be honest. The "main" reason I'm getting a new macbook pro is so I can learn SWIFT and use Xcode on it. The honest reason I'm getting it, is because I'm addicted (like a lot of people are), to wanting the latest and greatest tech even though I don't need it. I mean my current laptop (as I await for my new macbook pro), I bought this year brand new from Asus for £160! And it's so zippy and quick for a 2GB ram N3050 cpu machine. The screens crap, but it runs really well, and in reality I could use this lappy for a long time to come for most of my needs; it even played games smoothly on crappy graphics (though I personally hate crappy graphics, they have to be ultra).
Another example is I could have kept my Note 4 which I was mostly happy with and would have lasted me many more years, but then I upgraded it to an Edge 7.
So my other point is. Whether you buy the new macbook because you need it or want it. Just try not to forget how awesome and how far computers have come, and enjoy them. Because they are worth the price.
While I agree in concept I find it difficult to accept I'd be buying a Honda CRV at Land Rover prices.
This price hike is going to weed out the people who splurge the little bit extra for the apple brand but don't really know why and aren't really interested in tech. For those of us that are, I hope our patience can outlast Tim cooks greed (that won't be easy)
As someone looking to buy the 13" MBP with Touch Bar, I find the uproar over the price a little overblown. Looking at Dell's website (barring any discounts & whatever), I did a quick comparison:
Dell XPS 13, KL i5 15W, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SDD, 3200 X 1800 Display - $1399
MBP 13 Non Touch Bar, SL i5 15W, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SDD, 2560 X 1600 Display - $1499
Note: Dell is using Kaby Lake while the MBP is using Skylake (XPS 13 probably slightly faster)
Dell XPS 13, KL i7 15W, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SDD, 3200 X 1800 Display - $1649
MBP 13 Touch Bar, SL i5 28W, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SDD, 2560 X 1600 Display - $1799
Note: Faster SSD, 28W Intel chip for the MBP
All lower priced XPS 13 configurations using a 1080p screen. So a $100 and $150 premium for what is IMO similarly specced machines. Were people seriously expecting Apple to sell at a lower price than Dell?
To be fair, I have not looked at the 15" options for Dell.
Dell XPS 13, KL i5 15W, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SDD, 3200 X 1800 Display - $1399
MBP 13 Non Touch Bar, SL i5 15W, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SDD, 2560 X 1600 Display - $1499
Note: Dell is using Kaby Lake while the MBP is using Skylake (XPS 13 probably slightly faster)
Dell XPS 13, KL i7 15W, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SDD, 3200 X 1800 Display - $1649
MBP 13 Touch Bar, SL i5 28W, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SDD, 2560 X 1600 Display - $1799
Note: Faster SSD, 28W Intel chip for the MBP
All lower priced XPS 13 configurations using a 1080p screen. So a $100 and $150 premium for what is IMO similarly specced machines. Were people seriously expecting Apple to sell at a lower price than Dell?
To be fair, I have not looked at the 15" options for Dell.
So basically, the XPS has newer processor and higher resolution display while costing less.
The MBP has P3 support for the display and a faster SSD for the touch bar version. Also 28W chip vs 15W chip (probably better gfx performance). And TouchID. That's too much to ask for a $150 premium (let's not forget the Apple Tax)?
Besides, this is Apple we are talking about here. What's new? They have always been more expensive than others
The dell is actually really nice, and the ssd is m.2 user upgradable..I think a 1TB is about $350ish. The thing to do is buy the cheaper ($1000) xps and upgrade the ssd yourself, which is pretty easy.
The 2015 MacBook Pro user upgradable ssd was about $600 when I looked last.
Also, dell works with a few Linux distros and ran ubuntu beautifully when I had it (I have the xps 15 now), battery life was 8-9 hours on the xps 13 with ubuntu.
They're all really good laptops, and build quality is comparable.
Altogether though, I actually prefer windows 10/linux dual boot, especially since the Linux shell came out for windows.
TouchID is a gimmick. (It would have been a great feature HAD Apple integrated TouchID into the touchpad.)
The MacBook Pro 13" uses 15W processor like the Dell XPS 13. (Skylake for MBP, Kaby Lake for XPS)
Also, the Dell XPS 13 uses Samsung 950 Pro SSD.
That's already the fastest SSD. I don't know what you were expecting.
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EDIT: I don't know what happened to the post I was quoting but it was about being concerned about the USB-C ports.
Curious, did it concern you when Apple dropped all of its Firewire 400/600/800 ports on its macbooks? And does it concern you the same way now?
Sometimes change is for the better even though it can be annoying for a year or two.
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Let's be real here - Apple wants you to use iCloud for backups and Apple Music for music, so they see no need for you to ever have to connect your iPhone to your macbook anymore. They are independent items now, whether we like it or not.
Curious, did it concern you when Apple dropped all of its Firewire 400/600/800 ports on its macbooks? And does it concern you the same way now?
Sometimes change is for the better even though it can be annoying for a year or two.
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Let's be real here - Apple wants you to use iCloud for backups and Apple Music for music, so they see no need for you to ever have to connect your iPhone to your macbook anymore. They are independent items now, whether we like it or not.
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Except when I have an issue one of the "fix it" steps Apple seems always roll out; "connect your device to iTunes"...
Still, I'd say 1 in 5 upgrades of the OS ends up requiring iTunes.
A backup of my iPhone, encrypted backup, requires iTunes.
If I have issues and require Apple help, a frequent step requires iTunes.
For being independent, there still seems to be some serious dependency.
I haven't had to upgrade my phone with iTunes since they started allowing OTA upgrades. I'm not sure where your 1 in 5 stat came from. And I've been on the beta in the past for long periods.
In my case, the gradual multi-year phase out of Firewire was perfectly acceptable. My Firewire iPod was replaced by a USB ipod LONG before the ports were removed. My 2008 Macbook Pro which was JUST RETIRED THIS WEEK still has firewire on it.
I'm all for USB-C, but USB-A should have stuck around for a least a few more iterations before removing it outright. I have not a single, nor care to upgrade to any USB-C as all my USB-A devices work perfectly fine and in all cases gain NOTHING by updating to USB-C besides working on the new MBP without a dongle.
At least with Firewire->USB there was a huge benefit to upgrading devices as pretty much only my Mac used firewire to begin with. This time its the opposite, only the Mac uses USB-C.
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Why not just skip this model and get last years refurbished WAY cheaper? It's why I did and I don't regret it one bit. Was able to get the top-of-the-line 13" model with the i7 3.1 for $1600 and get all the stuff I wanted out of a machine at a reasonable price point.