It was too bulky or heavy for me, but I accepted it as the minimum weight for that level of performance. But whenever I walked with one in my bag, my shoulder would start to hurt after a short while. Not everyone is the same, but for me, I hope one day we'll have a MBP that weights like an iPad Pro. As long as the performance is good - and I expect the new MBPs to have excellent performance. In fact, I bet the reviews show it's one of the fastest laptops there is, especially the quad-core 15" model. All that, with a 10 hour battery life, which I find adequate. I think they found a good balance of size, performance and weight. For my needs, at least, yours could be different. I don't do light stuff, a lot of things I do are demanding in terms of hardware, and yet I believe this MBP will be great.
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New MBP price = *speechless*
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It was too bulky or heavy for me, but I accepted it as the minimum weight for that level of performance. But whenever I walked with one in my bag, my shoulder would start to hurt after a short while. Not everyone is the same, but for me, I hope one day we'll have a MBP that weights like an iPad Pro. As long as the performance is good - and I expect the new MBPs to have excellent performance. In fact, I bet the reviews show it's one of the fastest laptops there is, especially the quad-core 15" model. All that, with a 10 hour battery life, which I find adequate. I think they found a good balance of size, performance and weight. For my needs, at least, yours could be different. I don't do light stuff, a lot of things I do are demanding in terms of hardware, and yet I believe this MBP will be great.
I think he XPS 15 isn't exactly the best comparison. Its a nice computer. Several people at my work have one, but it feels almost ultrabook-ish and think that at this juncture the laptops marketed as workstations compare better to MBPs, given the price ranges and the idea that the user has performance as a top priority.
Here in the US, the low end 15" MBP with the i7-6920HQ and 512 GB storage option is $2900. With that budget you can configure the Lenovo Thinkstation P50 with the E3-1505M v5, 32 GB of ram and 2x 1TB NVMe SSDs. Heck its only another $150 to go to 64GB of RAM or change the 32 GB to ECC. You also get the NVIDIA Quadro M2000M 4GB, instead of Radeon Pro 450 with 2GB. Pros and cons with that, but I'm guessing we'll see an upgrade to the NVIDIA GPU in the not too distant future. At one point I saw options on the P50 to take out the dGPU, for those of us that don't really care about photo/video work or gaming, but can't find that today.
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Not sure I can take you seriously if you stating a 15" notebook slightly over 2Kg is too heavy. My 12 year old daughter now has my 2011 15" cMBP and she has yet to complain, and she hauls an arsenal of English, Chinese, art & music books, with it.
Less mass is always desirable, at the cost of usability & performance, not so much at the level Apple is selling the MBP no. People rely on there hardware for a living, thiner & lighter is not the be all, and end all. A more powerful, more accomplished MBP would be well received by many.
Careful what you wish for, Apple may just delver, equally neutered like some of the current Mac line up, especially if it can be done cheaper with greater margin...
Q-6
Err, what?
Wouldn't the MacBook Pro without USB-A, HDMI, and SDXC slot feels "ultrabook-ish"?
Same rules apply, Apple want to keep going ever thinner, just a matter of time before your in the little league...
Q-6
If you're like me, you bought an upgraded model to max out the CPU and GPU, knowing the RAM and hard drive could be updated later (2011 MBP for me). Upgrading is no longer an option, so to future proof, I'd have to pay much more than $2,400 today.
This is the first Apple keynote I have missed for ages as I've been on a cruise. Just got back and was eager to catch up. OMG the price of the 13" is crazy! I'm going to be keeping my 2014 2.8 16GB 1TB which cost me £1600. Whilst I could afford the new machine, it's not worth the hike to me. Apple just doesn't wow anymore, unless it's for all the wrong reasons (what they left out, price etc).
I get it, I'm in the minority on this one. I'm not talking about ports or the CPU under the hood. Just the design, construction and "feel" (to me). Also, you can get the XPS 15 fairly well configured for less than/same as the 13" MBP without the touch bar! (Like it will have the i7-6700HQ in it for under $1500!)
So, its not so much to say the XPS 15 is just an ultrabook, its just that it feels like a different class of product than the MBP given the price range. Once you put the 32GB of RAM and 1TB SSD in it, its still only $100 more than the base 15" MBP!
BTW, the best configuration page for the XPS 15 is this: http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-15-9550-laptop/pd
I've used the XPS 15 and I don't know what you mean by "feel".
That said, I love that the XPS 15 offers easily upgradable memory and SSD.
I don't want to get into what's too heavy for your 12 year old daughter, but I can certainly carry a lot more weight. In fact, I used to carry both the MacBook Pro, the Cintiq Companion and an iPad Pro on my back, with 2 power bricks - that doesn't mean I liked it.
I can certainly stand the weight of the last-gen MBPs, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want them to be lighter.
I agree - not at the cost of performance. But the new MBPs are faster than my old MBP (which was already fast enough) and their performance is top-notch. Their battery life too. It's not like you have a slow computer in the new MBP, in fact, while we have to wait for reviews, I bet you have one of the fastest laptops on the market.
So, I don't see where the cost of usability & performance is, really. I rely on that hardware for a living, and as I mentioned in numerous posts I work in Photoshop with huge files and lots of layers, I also run Zbrush, and 3D Coat and always have a lot of apps open. Maybe there are even more demanding apps, but I wouldn't call these lightweight - in fact, they are professional, industry standard, demanding apps. The performance of my current MBP (2013. Retina) is great. I want the new MBP because it's an improvement - it has even better performance - almost double the GPU performance and around 25% better CPU performance and 4X the SSD performance AND it has 2 hours longer battery life - all that at a lower weight and size. What cost of performance are you talking about? They made the thing faster and better litteraly in every way and made it more comfortable to carry.
The only thing is they could've made it slightly more powerful but at the same weight. In fact, I'd say you want some intangible performance gains at the cost of noticable mobility gains.
At this level of performance, a few % higher wouldn't mean much, but a lighter computer is something I WILL notice every day I go to work. You don't have to agree, but let's not pretend Apple is somehow sacrificing performance. They are pushing EVERY spec forward (instead just the ones you want at the cost of everything else) making something for everyone: we get a faster, lighter, smaller computer with a better screen. But for some reason you're not happy - so that must mean they are "obsessed". What you call obsession, I call good design choices.
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And you never will. I know that sounds insulting - but it's not. You have different priorities and sensibilities. The XPS 15 is the computer for you, and that's good. Just don't assume everyone is the same. For me - it's not a computer I enjoy using. MacBook is. Can we leave it at that?
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So you are not even going to give any reasons?
For example, you could say that the carbon fiber palm rest don't feel comfortable.
I would disagree that, but at least that would be a reasonable argument.
I think I understand now what Apple means when they call these new MBPs Pro? They were made for pros who are willing and able to pay the higher prices for them. This would include football Pros, Baseball Pros, and Basketball Pros to name a few. Mac Book Pros for the pros who can afford them.
The 13 inch base touch bar MBP is pretty pricey in Canada but not really crazily priced in comparison to some of its competition.
The base Surface Book is $1950, Surface Pro 4 with similar specs and keyboard is $1800, Dell XPS 13 with slightly better specs and QHD screen is $1950, HP Spectre with 1080P screen is $1700.
The base Surface Book is $1950, Surface Pro 4 with similar specs and keyboard is $1800, Dell XPS 13 with slightly better specs and QHD screen is $1950, HP Spectre with 1080P screen is $1700.
you could only double the RAM, then it was maxed. It wasn't that much more to double the RAM at the time. Hard drive yes, but have they even shown a breakdown of the internals for the 15" yet? The 13" has a removeable Flash hard drive.
At this point I realize that the way to go for expanding storage is to get an external USB-C drive, which are a super fast way to offload. Keeps the cost down and allows for any storage you want at any time. I can't upgrade to 4TB anyway, so I use a NAS or USB-C external.
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I've used the XPS 15 and I don't know what you mean by "feel".
That said, I love that the XPS 15 offers easily upgradable memory and SSD.
It's nice. However you're going to max out RAM eventually. If you go with the max to begin with, it's no different. You're saying you like to buy low and upgrade later I guess, which is fine. But eventually you're going to spend that money.
Also, is that XPS going to last you 7+ years or will you be upgrading before then. My MBP has lasted me that long and it's still in pristine condition running the latest version of macOS flawlessly.
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Can the XPS run macOS natively with dual boot? Can the MBP run Windows 10 natively with dual boot? No, and yes.
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First of, the costs of memory and SSD goes down over time so it would be cheaper to upgrade later. In fact, that exactly what I did with my MacBook Pro Late 2011.
Second, manufactures tend to charge a lot for upgraded memory and SSD out of the box, so it would be wise to upgrade after purchase regardless.
Why not? Windows 10 can run on old PCs with Pentium 4 and 1 GB memory from 2005.
As long as you don't care about legality, you can run macOS on Dell XPS laptops.
Yeah it's true--you can get so much more hardware at a lesser price. But... it's not running Mac OS. And that for me is the thing. I don't want a "hackintosh." I use Win10 at work (and don't like it). I'm on a Thinkpad at work and I loathe the touchpad on that machine. The cursor jumps around at will.
I currently have a 2013 MBA 13" at home and it's been great, but damn it I want a Retina screen with my OS X. It's not about 'need,' it's about want. I don't care about that touchstrip thing--that has no appeal for me. But a faster machine and with Retina...sigh...I'm feeling tempted even though I know Apple is being greedier than thou.
I currently have a 2013 MBA 13" at home and it's been great, but damn it I want a Retina screen with my OS X. It's not about 'need,' it's about want. I don't care about that touchstrip thing--that has no appeal for me. But a faster machine and with Retina...sigh...I'm feeling tempted even though I know Apple is being greedier than thou.
Things branded as mobile workstations are not typically comparable. Apple just doesn't offer such a thing. They are usually aimed at people who run a lot of VMs or need to run CAD software, which are more prevalent on the Windows side, although the VMs themselves could be some flavor of Linux.
Anything branded as a mobile workstation can typically be configured to a much greater degree than a macbook pro. In terms of specs and features, the XPS 15 is very similar. What makes it a bad comparison? There is the annoying thing where people grab the most or least expensive model for comparison. I don't like to do that, but the XPS seems reasonable.
I have 16GBs in my 2011 15" MBP. I removed the SuperDrive and put in another drive. I will upgrade it again soon and swap out the one hybrid drive for two 1TB SSDs. Going on 6 years and it's still dependable computer, but with having to use a partition to run Windows and VMs, I anticipate needing 32GBs of RAM at least.
I'm not saying the 2016 15" MBP is not a much better machine in terms of the internal screen, ability to output to multiple screens, and CPU. What I'm having an issue with is that off the bat, instead of $2,200 for a future proofed (defined in my use case as useful for five years), top of the line (at the time) base model, and then spending money as my needs grow, computer, is having to start at the top (2 TB storage, 2.9Ghz processor, 4GB GPU) for $4,200 to future proof a new MBP.
Technically the 2010/2011 (mine/yours) wasn't built to have an extra hard drive inside it. That's through a third party optibay, which I have too - but wasn't envisioned by Apple. I'm not even sure the hard drive in the new ones is not replaceable - seems like it would have to be for servicing. Eventually cost on those flash drives will go down too. You don't have to VM, you can dual boot so just boot right into Windows - which doesn't need 32GB.
I understand your point but my own point is - pay now or pay later. 2.6, 2.7, 2.9 - I can't see much of a difference there with most applications. Buy an external USB-C drive at 40GB/s transfer if you need a ton of space. Get the larger GPU and 512GB and call it a day for now.
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Yeah, I got more RAM later too. But if I wanted it then I could've just paid the extra $200 or whatever. At $2500 I'm not too worried about that extra money. Over 7 years.
You're not seriously talking about running Win10 on an 11 year old PC as a good thing that works well.
I do care about legality and stability.
Although I do have a partition on one drive just for Windows, I also need to be able to have several VMs up at the same time, running Windows and Linux instances. Again, doable (barely) now with 16GBs and an SSD main drive, but come next year, when I will need to add some RAM hunger graphics tools to the mix, I'm probably going to upgrade to a PC laptop that can handle 32 GBs or create a wireless VMware network solution (which, honestly, I'm leaning toward).
For all those people who defend greedy Tim Cook and greedy Apple in the other forums, I finally have a page to direct them to
http://www.apple.com/au/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro
[doublepost=1477896948][/doublepost]If so many people who really care about their macs are turning away, what is the average punter going to think??
I think Tim was asleep in economics class when the teacher said if you continue to raise prices you get to a point of diminishing returns. That or he's the only one who's left believing hearing him say 'you're going to love it'. One minute iPads are the future of personal computers, the next a computer with old chips and soldered on, insufficient ram is so 'breathtaking' people will part with upward and over $3500? Fornicate me? Fornicate you Tim
http://www.apple.com/au/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro
[doublepost=1477896948][/doublepost]If so many people who really care about their macs are turning away, what is the average punter going to think??
I think Tim was asleep in economics class when the teacher said if you continue to raise prices you get to a point of diminishing returns. That or he's the only one who's left believing hearing him say 'you're going to love it'. One minute iPads are the future of personal computers, the next a computer with old chips and soldered on, insufficient ram is so 'breathtaking' people will part with upward and over $3500? Fornicate me? Fornicate you Tim
I will, but whether this will be reasonable to you or not, I don't know. I would ask you to refrain from calling me names, though, even indirectly. I don't consider you untasteful or ignorant, so please don't consider me unreasonable or a fanboy.
And let me tell you, you won't find any of them to be good reasons for you. That's ok. As I said, you have different tastes and sensibilities, and I respect them. Please respect mine.
Anyway:
First, I really prefer macOS to Windows. There are a million little things and a few big ones, so I won't go into that here. I use Windows 10 daily, btw, so I am well aware how it works and looks. macOS is the biggest reason, and I consider it to be a part of the laptop, just as a CPU or a keyboard.
While the trackpads have improved on PCs, and XPS doesn't have a terrible one, I find it way inferior to any MacBook, especially the ones with Force Touch. I consider the input devices to be just as important as internal specs. When I use a mouse, I use a Logitech MX Master - and if there was a better mouse, I'd buy that one too, no matter the cost. I also need a good trackpad on a laptop - and, frankly, the one on MBPs blow the one on XPS out of the water.
In a similar fashion, I prefer the Mac keyboards. In fact, I really like the new Magic Keyboards and I actually like the new MacBook ones. Can't wait to try the butterfly mechanism on the new MBPs. I don't really care about key travel, but I am somehow OCD to keys leaning left and right while I type (I keep trying to hit them in the middle for this reason) so I actually prefer the new keyboards.
I dislike the feel of the textured surface on the XPS. It feels cheap. Before you get emotional, a reminder: this is my opinion and I consider it a matter of personal taste. I know many people who think it looks and feels great - I'm not one of them.
This is the part where you'll consider me a hipster fanboy, or unreasonable: the overall looks. First of all, I think you can do the same professional work on an XPS as the one on a MacBook Pro. Functionally, they are all the same - at least for what I do. But since I actually love computers, and don't just look at them as tools, but as something I enjoy and love, I go beyond utilitarian reasons. So - here it goes - MacBook Pros are esthetically much more pleasing to me than any Dell. I consider the XPS to be ugly. Sorry.
Finally - and this will seem ******* crazy to you - the attention to detail. I love how Apple designs these inside-out. Take a look at any picture of MacBook internals and compare them to the one you attached here. Please - I'm not insane - this is not a factor based on which I choose what to buy. Instead it displays a level of commitment that I respect. So don't take this out of the context and say: "he buys them because they look better inside". I remember a quote from Jobs where he compared a Mac to a good piece of furniture, and talked about the back surface, the one that is turned against a wall - the one you don't see. He claimed that if you're trully a master craftsman, you'll want that part to be great as well. It will just bother you if it isn't, even if no one gets to see it. This really resonates with me. I respect this attitude, and I try (and often fail) to incorporate it in my work. So, when I work and look at my Mac, it's a constant reminder to make that extra effort. To make even the things people don't get to see - the best I can. When I look at an XPS, I see what you would call "rational reasoning" and what I would call "compromise". For me, a MacBook is a reminder to try and do my best work.
These are my reasons. I am willing to pay for them, with the money I earned. People buy expensive stuff for various reasons all the time. I buy expensive Macs. I love them. It's as much an emotional decision as it is a rational one. Rational side of it is: I prefer macOS, I use macOS apps and I really prefer the input devices (trackpad and keyboard). Emotional side of it is: I just love the attention to detail. I love the symmetry and simplicity of a device that is so powerful. And don't think I'm some attention craving hipster either - I don't want to be seen with it in a Starbucks, I use it at home and in my office. I love how Macs feel. I really don't like how XPS feels. When I look it from the side, it looks like a weird robot ice cream sandwich. It's surface texture looks faux and cheap. I dislike Windows. That's just it.
Again - are these reasons good enough for you? Obviously not. And it's fine. For me, nothing is even close to a Mac.
Even though ive almost had enough of the direction Apple is going these days, that was a great post!! Its the same reason i love Mac Computers. I also love how my 2011 MBA still runs and looks like new, except for the battery of course. The price increase and lack of ports and Magsafe had me seriously research a Windows based Laptop for the first time ever, its a pity nothing comes close when it comes to the overall package. The XPS 15 was the closest but its plagued with reliability issues, a average trackpad and bad battery life on the 4k screen model. Therefore i will probably fork out for the base 15" rMBP, the fact i can see it lasting me 7-10 years makes the high price hurt less.