New Microsoft Ad Campaign Targets Mac Prices

[Matek]

Sheesh, what's the 100+ pages of arguing all about? It's a decent ad. Just like Apple takes some downsides of PC's and puts them into their Mac vs. PC ads, this ad does the absolute same thing for Macs. Some facts might be slightly modified for marketing purposes, but no more than in the case of Apple's ads.

To people who complain the laptop in the commercial isn't better than the MBP - it's not supposed to be, it's primarily supposed to show Apple doesn't offer the customer much choice. Apart from that, it's still a fact their laptops are several hundred dollars more expensive than the competition, even with the same configuration (A Lenovo T500 15.4 with slightly better specs as the cheapest MBP is almost 600 USD cheaper, the 17" powerhouse model has a wacom graphics tablet and a professional quadro gfx card plus everything else a 17" mbp brings, etc.)

 

[pingin]

Wow who knew a commercial could start such an uproar. Maybe I'm in the minority but I didn't buy my Mac because it was cool. I bought it because I wanted a Mac. I have nothing against PC's or Windows, matter of fact all my desktops are PC's running Windows XP,Linux,and FreeBSD. But I needed a laptop and decided I wanted a Macbook Pro for no real reason but that I wanted one. Even knowing it would take me a few months of saving up to get one.
Microsoft makes a legitimate point about Apple's pricing. In this economy Apple may need to take a look at their pricing and may decide to lower prices, but only time will tell.
Anyways all this flaming about which platform is better is completely pointless not to mention stupid. Just buy whatever platform you feel is the best for you.

I agree with you. I love Apple's products and will continue to use them but I think this ad is very good. It hits Apple in the jugular. Sure, it's a bit of a cheap jab (the 17" Mac Pro being the top of the line) but you have to give credit where it's due -- the average consumer will just recall Mac = expensive, PC = cheap.

 

[Tallest Skil]

I agree with you. I love Apple's products and will continue to use them but I think this ad is very good. It hits Apple in the jugular. Sure, it's a bit of a cheap jab (the 17" Mac Pro being the top of the line) but you have to give credit where it's due -- the average consumer will just recall Mac = expensive, PC = cheap.

An advertisement telling people what they already know is generally seen as calling the public idiots.

 

[bruinsrme]

I really do have to agree there. People are very set in their ways with which computer/operating system they prefer.

I had to disagree with that on a personal level.

Back in august it was time o upgrade. I went to an apple store a hour away and looked at the offerings and the price.

I have said it before and will say it again dam nice looking machine.
Unfortunately it lacked what i was looking for in my next toy.

Just like the car analogy comparing the kia to the bmw. If I bought a BMW and it came with cloth seats that barely recline, no power windows or 12 inch tires well I wouldnt buy it. that is what the MBP was to me. All the engine but no accessories.

I could see how it fits a percentage of peoples need but not mine.

The funny thing is I just finished cleaning up an older hp laptop that this person loade with viruses, mal ware and so on. then I looked at their inernet history and email. You have just won a cruise. I think my favorite one was Claim your free Harley just click here.
Lavasoft and AVG didn't cost anything.

So if mac isn't prone to viruses why is their antivirus software for macs?

 

[MH01]

I work as an independent roving IT consultant. I am fluent with Mac OS X, Windows, Linux, Solaris, etc.

This completely dismisses TCO. In fact, many times, I could walk up to a brand new Windows machine and it would effectively be totaled before I even sat down, because of just the cost of initial configuration and user info, settings migration, etc. On a Mac, settings, documents, etc. migration is a piece of cake. And the extra config beyond what's out of the box, is pretty minimal, unless it's a brand new machine, and even then, it's still much less than a PC.

By the time I take a typical Windows Vista box, rip out the crappy trialware virus software suite, all the other useless trialware, install AVGFree, get Firefox on it, download all of the Windows updates requiring umpteen reboots, fix all the useless extra crap from starting up in the system tray, and then migrate user data using some nightmare conglomeration of tools because the last machine was XP, etc. it's a huge cost at my regular rate.

Not to mention the TCO hit of me having to come back and right the ship a couple years down the line, when Vista starts getting bloated and addled with spyware, and lots of extra useless toolbars, printer monitor apps, etc. that all start bogging down the machine and the user has no idea what to do.

There is absolutely no question Macs are far cheaper to own. I see these costs every day in my business. And I see the frustration of end users. And yes Macs are way cooler. And you can do so much more.

Anyone using Windows is either a corporate user held hostage by Exchange, Active Directory, and their IT department, or just a fool who has been duped by Microsoft.

And when I managed several corporate IT departments that were Windows shops, I always allowed Mac users to coexist if they were willing to shoulder some of the burden. Of course after years of being second class citizens in the network, Mac users are far more savvy and self reliant than your typical Windows dolt. And they lower IT costs because they have a lot less in the way of stupid questions.

But, the dirty little secret, is that Windows makes me a lot of money. Thanks for producing crap MS, so I can fix it for suckers.

Having read this, the little secret is that your exploiting people who lack IT skills. If it takes you ages to configure / "Fix" are brand new computer, you are really taking the piss and I would question your Fluency with windows. And why exactly are you pushing AVG/firefox on the users? Pre 3.0 Firefox was awesome.

And "fix all the useless extra crap from starting up in the system tray, and then migrate user data using some nightmare conglomeration of tools because the last machine was XP, etc" WTF? You struggle migrating from XP to Vista???? Sold any used cars lately??

If your working in a business environment, you are working with Images of an OS, its a no brainer rebuilding a machine.

You honestly sound like one of those mechanics where you come in to get your oil changed and they tell you that you need an engine rebuild. They you blame they user for getting a Hyundai instead of a reliable BMW.

As i work with both PCs and Macs, I have got most of my family members who struggle with computers to get a Mac as it is easier for them, they have very simple computer needs. I would never though take someone for a ride in fixing their computer. I have never had a PC that I could not fix in a very short time. Only time it gets complicated is when a hardware component fails and you have to isolate it.

 

[pingin]

An advertisement telling people what they already know is generally seen as calling the public idiots.

'Reminding' people then.

 

[EmperorDarius]

So if mac isn't prone to viruses why is their antivirus software for macs?

Because there are very few viruses, all of which require user interaction, so;

A)For naive people, who click just about everything
B)For people who come from the Windows world, and are paranoid
C)For people who download illegal material

It's not a must though (unlike Windows) it's something extra.

Just found this article today:

http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/archives/00001636.html

Q: I'm running a Mac, is something going to happen to me?
A: No.

 

[Matek]

An advertisement telling people what they already know is generally seen as calling the public idiots.

Yeah, most people aren't aware of the fact that it's convenient to pay with MasterCard or that they offer different hamburgers at McDonald's or that Head & Shoulders is actually a shampoo that will rid you of dandruff.

All those advertisments are really just being informative, telling people something they have no idea about.

 

[alhasa]

$699 vs $2499

I'm just pointing out the fact that the average person isn't foolish enough to pay what people think used Macs are worth A MacBook Pro isn't worth the original price. In fact, the $2499 MacBook Pro is realistically only worth about $999. The average person knows this so they're not going to pay more for it used than it was worth to begin with.



Funny how don't post a link to the original article. The original article being a BLOG post, which was updated several months later to include the information that the military banned removable media not because of viruses, but because they don't want enemies to be able to use them to attack



Which is a plus.



Slow AMD mobile processor? AMD's Turion line is only marginally slower than Intel's Core 2 Duo line and usually several hundred dollars cheaper. The difference in waiting a couple of extra seconds for a video encode to finish means nothing when you're $300-$400 richer.



Just like every Intel Mac up until a couple of months ago, and like the current white MacBook.



Let's not forget that every 15"+ system in the $1,000 and up range has a 1650x1080 resolution, the same the 17" MacBook Pro had as standard until recently, and 16" PCs offer 1920x1200, same as the 17" MacBook Pro costing twice as much on average.



Oh noes, 802.11g! What ever will we do with real world performance still much faster than nearly all internet connections in the US.



HP claims 3.5 hours of battery life with the battery in my 15.4" system and its spot on. They only claim about 4.5 hours on the 12 cell battery I have but its closer to 6.5-7 hours.



Actually, no, it comes with very highly rated software. Maybe you should do your research.



It's not belittling anyone when its the truth.



Been using a Mac for years now and I have yet to see how its "intuitive". If anything, its counter-intuitive.



You know that Ballmer has been CEO for several years now, right? And if MS is "going downhill", why are there 10x as many Vista users as there are Mac users?

Oh and if you want to complain about misleading advertising, let's talk about the "Get a Mac" campaign, shall we? It's quite hypocritical of ALL Apple fans to complain about this ad as "misleading" when we've had 3 years worth of misleading advertising from Apple. None of their ads have been truthful.



It doesn't bother me if someone likes a Mac and wants to buy one. What bothers me is that Apple apologists will flat out lie when it comes to defending Apple and making PCs look bad. Look at this thread. You have all kinds of people lying about how "bad" Windows is, saying things that have never been true. Trying to twist arguments as far as price is concerned, and just spreading general FUD that even the most computer illiterate Windows user knows is FUD.

good post!

look people... i love my macs as much as all of you do but the facts are facts... she bought a 17inch laptop for $699.. yes its not as high spec as teh MBP but you guys forget that the 17inch MBP costs 3.5x more!

im sure if apple came out with a similar spec 17incher for $1000, we would all be rejoicing!... cos very few people have the luxury of spending $2499 on a computer!

 

[bruinsrme]

An advertisement telling people what they already know is generally seen as calling the public idiots.

No, its it drive the point home to the consumer. Call the public idiots, well if you haven't worked retail before then you haven't had the pleasure of dealing with some of the people out there.

I pop over to best buy frequently and I always see a mother or two with their kids holding the weekly flyer opened to the page with the cheap laptops looking for the "best" deal.

$699 or $1000 its a lot of money for a family.

 

[badmac78]

No Mac user cares about your gaming PC that doesn't run OS X.

Macs don't need to outperform your GAMING PC. The only thing that leverages the hardware in your PC are games. Most Mac users don't play games on their PCs.

Most of us don't care about Crysis. Or framerates. Or fragging speed. I think quite a few of us have outgrown all that. We don't buy a Mac for the raw specs. You and people like you can't seem to get this through your heads.

I have a mac and I admit playing warcraft . . . I wouldn't hate on the gamers too much .. they end up in the military flying drones.

Mac's are build to game more now than they were in the past. I'm not sure how many folks game on their laptops. Maybe that's why Lauren wanted a 17" screen. So she wouldn't strain her eyes playing Quake.

What I've seen macs are built to be everything, as opposed to the 59 choices that I have to deal with the Dell. Their choice model was built on a phase in computers where the world thought everyone would be building their own computers. Since Hardware (for the most part) is common across different companies, it's more about the OS.

I will admit, my 13" macbook has locked up once or twice, but it doesn't just randomly shutoff like my dell lattitude. If I could use a mac at work, I'd ask for a MBP in a heartbeat, I know in the longrun the probability of me having to replace something on the MBP is lower than it is on a Dell or a Compaq. Now is that a product of the design or manufacturing process, I don't know. I know the OS is all design, and Mac wins hands down for designing a better OS than Vista/2000. Is the OS worth the $300 premium? To me, yes.

Again, kudos to MS for pulling a good punch and fighting on something that they don't even control (HW + price).

 

[MH01]

An advertisement telling people what they already know is generally seen as calling the public idiots.

ad⋅ver⋅tis⋅ing   [ad-ver-tahy-zing]
–noun
1. the act or practice of calling public attention to one's product, service, need, etc., esp. by paid announcements in newspapers and magazines, over radio or television, on billboards, etc.: to get more customers by advertising.
2. paid announcements; advertisements.
3. the profession of planning, designing, and writing advertisements.

I think we need to ad one more.

4. telling people what they already know, is generally seen as calling the public idiots

And that covers about 95% of advertising out there. Also, if we had less idiots out there, there would be less damn ads.

 

[nmc]

That damn virus

So if mac isn't prone to viruses why is their antivirus software for macs?

There's anti-virus software for those that want to make sure they have peace of mind and for companies to screw a little extra cash from "green" Mac users, telling them that they should/must protect their investment.

Personally speaking, I did try Norton way back when I got my first Mac in 1986, they scared me too those anti-virus guys, but pretty soon after, I removed it as it was bogging down my system (as these things often do on either platform). I haven't installed ANY anti-virus software since 1987 on any Mac I own and they're all clean.

If the following is what some of you want to hear in that regard then so be it. It's a niche market and there's very little interest in hackers attacking such a small user base and I for one am more than happy with that. There's also the underpinnings of OSX to consider, which is Unix based, an OS that's been strengthened over it's 40 some years of life to help avoid viruses and protect your most valuable asset...your computer.

I run four systems on my 2 year old MBP because my work requires it (virtualised XP Pro SP3, Vista SP1, Ubuntu & native OSX) and I'm glad at the end of the day that I can select Apple+Q to get rid of two of them.

I've seen my fair share of flame wars over the years regarding M$/Apple and have even been naive enough to get involved in some of them back in the 80's. Today, I couldn't give a monkeys, if you want a Windoze box then go with that, choose whichever makes you happiest/comfortable. In my case you'll have to prize my MBP from my cold dead hands before I give it up.

 

[diamond.g]

We don't buy a Mac for the raw specs.

I will believe that when Apple stops putting tech specs on all their product web pages...

 

[zirngast99]

I'm just pointing out the fact that the average person isn't foolish enough to pay what people think used Macs are worth A MacBook Pro isn't worth the original price. In fact, the $2499 MacBook Pro is realistically only worth about $999. The average person knows this so they're not going to pay more for it used than it was worth to begin with.

...

Oh noes, 802.11g! What ever will we do with real world performance still much faster than nearly all internet connections in the US.


Actually, no, it comes with very highly rated software. Maybe you should do your research.

It's not belittling anyone when its the truth.

You know that Ballmer has been CEO for several years now, right? And if MS is "going downhill", why are there 10x as many Vista users as there are Mac users?

Oh and if you want to complain about misleading advertising, let's talk about the "Get a Mac" campaign, shall we? It's quite hypocritical of ALL Apple fans to complain about this ad as "misleading" when we've had 3 years worth of misleading advertising from Apple. None of their ads have been truthful.



It doesn't bother me if someone likes a Mac and wants to buy one. What bothers me is that Apple apologists will flat out lie when it comes to defending Apple and making PCs look bad. Look at this thread. You have all kinds of people lying about how "bad" Windows is, saying things that have never been true. Trying to twist arguments as far as price is concerned, and just spreading general FUD that even the most computer illiterate Windows user knows is FUD.

Hi,
found it quite funny to follow this discussion and - to do what a forum is for - I will post my 5cts (not of much value then too.

The real value of any good can't be computed so easily - it depends. If you have two nearly comparable goods (in this case obviously MBP and HP 17") and the price differs this much, then there MUST be obviously something costumers value very highly. They can't be the same then and hardly compared at all. I'm not talking as a MAC- or PC-Person but from a business perspective.
All I'm saying is, that Apple is doing a hell of a job in selling something at a price point far above the competitors - try this yourself and very likely you will fail. Try selling your Dodge RAM 1500 at the price for a Porsche - if you proceed, your're a great business person!

Talking about the misleading advertisment, you're not hitting the point: Apple compared the two systems on a feature basis and argued that you have to pay extra for those, what is ok. What MS is doing is saying: "Mine is cheaper than yours!" Quite lame, isn't it? Actually till recently this was prohibited by law in Europe.
From a research prospective, this is the direct road to price-fights - your last resort, if you fired all your powder... Dead End.

As a corporate strategy - even as a cost-leader like MS - it is a terrible thing to do. Driving your prices down or trying to get an image of low-cost-supplier is thwarting any attempt to be perceived as an innovator or creative company - this is troublesome for your future business! So I think to, that Balmer is doing a not-so-good job.

 

[Mindtwisterz]

this is based outta life experience....i bought a hp 17 inch (dv9000t) computer from best buy (even spent $350 for the accidental warranty) and i have had the graphics die on me TWICE, LCD panel replaced, both hard drives in laptop crash TWICE, hinge and screen bezel broke (not by accident laptop sits on my desk and lid is hardly moved ever) motherboard break, and the list goes on....good thing i had the warranty with best buy everything was fixed for free but every freaking 2 weeks to a month i was at best buy either to send off the laptop or to pick it up from being fixed...oh and for what i paid for it and the warranty i could have bough a 15 inch MBP....i finally switched to mac and lemme tell you it feels good not having to worry about monthly trips to the apple store for repairs....to me comparing a macbook to a hp is like comparing a 08 bmw 7 series to a 89 ford taurus....it's cheaper to buy the taurus and they both do the job right?

as i said this is based off my personal experience (unfortunately i feel as if i paid the price of a 08 bemmer and got a taurus when it came to my laptop)

 

[-hh]

looks like i got you beat

Only in utterly missing the point.

looks like i got you beat

Incorrect, since it was never my intent to have an appendage-waving contest: my point was merely to point out that there is no single "Right" or "Wrong" (Better / Worse) answer because all selections depend on the customer's priorities.

This is because there's also customer trade-offs that occur between different types of 'products', which isn't just mere computer hardware:

• instead of playing virtual First Person Shooters, perhaps one would prefer to go outside and shoot real guns. Smell that Nitrocellulose.
  
• instead of watching movies at home on one's HTPC, perhaps one would prefer to go out to a theater...or a Broadway Show
  
• instead of playing a flight simulator, actually go fly an aircraft

And so on.



-hh

 

[-hh]

I hear ya. But in a discussion about pricing, raw performance will have to come first because it's the most important factor in dictating the price.

But your statement assumes that CPU computational power is effectively the only possible performance metric, and my example shows that this is simply not true.

You can buy hard drives in droves at low cost, but if you want those extra .2 GHz or that faster RAM, that's when the price curve goes vertical.

Law of Diminishing Returns. Of course, the same effectively happens with storage too when you don't have an infinite number of internal bays to put big, slow 'commodity' drives in and have to step up to pay for the bleeding edge of data storage. Try pricing out 4TB worth of SAS drives, or even 4tB worth of Velociraptors.

The only other thing that can make that curve go through the roof that fast is the ultraportable form factor (MBA, Adamo, some Vaio models, etc).

Or such as for a dSLR camera's Flash Memory cards, which IIRC were $50/GB just a few years ago. More for the highest speed examples.


-hh

 

[jasonvaughan]

Not a 17"

The laptop she bought has a resolution of 1440x900. Apple does a screen of this resolution. They call it a 15". Apple's 17 has a resolution of 1920 x 1200.

Yes PCs are cheaper, but low end PCs are not comparable to Macs. See what you get for £1199

15" Mac Book
2Gb Ram
250Gb HDD
2.4Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
256Mb VRAM
Gigabit Ethernet
Firewire 800
USB 2
2.4kg

Mini Display port for additional monitor
I prices up a Dell system with as closer spec as I could, and this was $959. This was not Firewire 800 and it was only VGA, not mini display port which can drive monitors up to 2560x1600 (30"). The Dell weighs 2.9Kg, which is only .5kg more but it is made of cheap looking plastic, compared with Apples Aluminium.

You also get Virus free computing and the best build quality of any PC. You cannot compare low end PCs with Macs. That would be like comparing a hand made hard wood table with a factory made MDF table. Not the same at all.

 

[Airforcekid]

A Dell Laptop at $700:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9166564&type=product&id=1218041148773

The $1000 Macbook:

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB881LL/A?mco=MzE2NjMyOA

Processor: Both are Intel Core 2 Duo running at 2 GHz.

Screen Size: Dell 15.4"; Mac 13"

RAM: Dell 4GB DDR2; Mac 2GB DDR2

Hard Drive: Dell 320 GB at 5400 RPM; Mac 120 GB at 5400 RPM

'Nuf said.

NO LEOPARD NOT ENOUGH SAID!

 

[KnightWRX]

Well good job proving you don't use Windows Autorun is only for optical discs. And Vista asks you if you want to run the autorun program before running it. Essentially, Autorun is no longer autorun.

Someone is in for a surprise. autorun.inf is supported on every kind of removable media, including USB drives.

And users are conditionned to click yes on everything, it has been proven time and time again that a confirmation dialog is not a proper security measure.

 

[awpitchy]

The ad isnt that good, it shows that the user wants a mac but they cannot afford it

 

[mamaun]

...You also get Virus free computing and the best build quality of any PC....

That was long ago, not now.

 

[ggibson913]

Windows has a valid point

This is a great marketing strategy for MS. Macs ARE more expensive than thier Windows counterparts. PC's are also a whole lot more consumer friendly these days, given the economy coupled with the Macs regression to proprietary hardware, if I were in the market for a new laptop I would have to consider a PC.
I am really unhappy with the new laptop line, specifically the video ports. What is the big deal about offering an optional Blu-Ray drive and a standard HDMI output that you can hook up to your TV? Other than you want your customers to buy an Apple TV. Sorry, that and the lack of a memory card reader really is a pet peeve of mine.

Don't get me wrong, I love my MAC but am afraid that Apple could potentially lose market share gains because they refuse to offer consumers what they want.

 

[opeter]

Don't get me wrong, I love my MAC but am afraid that Apple could potentially lose market share gains because they refuse to offer consumers what they want.

The question is: what consumers really want?