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Have you picked up the new unibodies? Even the tech blogs are saying they feel stiffer and more solid than thinkpads...

Did you read what I said? Pick them up at ANY ONE END POINT. It would definitely bend/break due to the weight and design and not surprising, just look at all the dented macbook posts.

Lenovo even ran multiple drop-tests. There is a reason why they are the industry standard and why companies issue Thinkpads for field work.
 
Did you read what I said? Pick them up at ANY ONE END POINT. It would definitely bend/break due to the weight and design and not surprising, just look at all the dented macbook posts.

Please do some actual research before going off like that. The unibodies are extremely rigid, I havent seen any flex at all from playing with them at the apple store, and i specifically looked to see.

DROPPING something is entirely different from flexing.
 
Did you read what I said? Pick them up at ANY ONE END POINT. It would definitely bend/break due to the weight and design and not surprising, just look at all the dented macbook posts.

Lenovo even ran multiple drop-tests. There is a reason why they are the industry standard and why companies issue Thinkpads for field work.

Aluminum dents when a large force is applied to a small area. Imagine that. It isn't going to bend as it is a solid brick of aluminum without a significant enough force to dent a corner of it.
 
Why is it so hard for people to admit both Windows PCs and Macs have there merits?

I am a recent switcher to Macs after owning PCs for 26 years (My first PC was an IBM PC with PC DOS 1.1). There have been some really good Microsoft Systems - MS DOS 3 and Windows 2000/NT are the ones that worked the best for me. However, my recent experience with Microsoft and Dell computers finally made me switch. My last two laptops from Dell got to the point where it was actually PAINFUL to use them. Every time I would turn them on it would take forever for the system to boot up, and then it would want to load some update from Microsoft or some other drive that it needed and run a virus scan. Every time I would try to hook up any peripheral there would be the pain of hunting down drivers, multiple restarts and then hopefully the item would work (I have an HP scanner that never worked as advertised). We also bought a peripheral for our PCs that was designed to be used for our 1 year old twins. For some reason, I could never get it to work on the Windows Vista laptop, but would work on the XP laptop.

The final straw for me was that I had received an email from a client that they wanted me to review something urgently. I logged into my computer and after two restarts due to downloads of updates and it being so slow I could not open up firefox due to a virus scan, I gave up. Total time wasted was 45 minutes. At this point I drove back to work and reviewed the document there.

I bought my MBP shortly thereafter. What I came to realize is that, like most people, I really just need a computer that works. That is, when I turn it on I can use it quickly. And it doesn't crash or stop working. I don't need a computer that is the fastest or is able to play the most sophisticated games (the only game I play is chess and wow). What I came to realize is that Apple does this by tightly controlling what hardware it allows to be used in its computers and optimizing the OS to work with that hardware. In addition, it doesn't allow you to do every single thing in 15 different ways. It just picks one or two and that is all you get. I have found a few of those things kind of frustrating but generally, they usually pick a pretty intuitive way of doing it. As a result of this engineering (both software and hardware), I have found a much better user experience. When I have bought peripherals for my Macs, if they are Mac compatible, they just work.

Where MS seems to have fallen down in my view is that they have decided to become an OS that is supposed to be all things to all people with all hardware configurations. Because of this flexibility, they really don't do anything that well anymore.

However, Apple could certainly learn a few things from MS and Dell. For example, the Dell extended warranty (I can't remember what it is called now), makes Applecare seem like an expensive joke. I used the Dell warranty three times. The first time was because my wife spilled a coke into the computer. The second time was a short circut (faulty) and the third my 1 year old picked 6 of the keys off the keyboard when I wasn't looking. In all cases, the problem was resolved at no cost to me. Only the second one was really Dell's fault and this was in 6 total years owning the two Dell laptops. Apple would have dealt with the second issue. If the first or the third issue happened to my Apple, it would have cost me a fair bit to replace.

I realize I am paying more to own an Apple, but in my mind it is worth it for the experience I get. And I really think that is what most of the people that are being called "fanboys" around here are saying. No one in there right mind would by an Apple and then wipe the disk and install Windows on it as it would be a complete waste of cash. When you buy an Apple computer you are paying for more than just the computer (i.e., the software, which matters to me, and the image, which doesn't but I still understand that it is part of the cost). What people seem to really be arguing about is how much of the Apple tax is user experience and how much is image. As utility is measured differently for every user, it is a debate no one can win.
 
I don't know about the validity of "You usually buy a 3 year warranty".....
OK, I don't anyway. With the Macs I buy I get AppleCare and with the Dells I buy, the Precision line, 3 years is the minimum, 4 years optional.

The 5 year mark is what most seem as a great measure of endurance, not 2 years. I still haven't had a laptop last 5 years, but it seems a great number of mac users have (i dont have one yet). This toshiba im on right now is already starting to get some funky problems and its not even a year old (plastic cracking, fans CONSTANTLY revving up fully when the computer is just sitting there doing nothing, etc etc).
I have a 6 year old Dell Pentium 4M laptop - a really ugly hunk of plastic from before the widescreen days (it has 1600x1200 res) that looks like it's been conserved in a time capsule from day 1, it runs just like on day 1, and the really bizarre part is that the battery life (I never replaced it) isn't half bad. On my other Dell laptop the battery died after a year though so I'm not chalking that up as a victory for Dell's battery department...

But, some machines last and others don't. What makes or breaks it is the treatment they get of course. I once borrowed a Ti PB G4 (the 1st gen with black keys) and it was beat up beyond recognition, one hinge was off so you had to carefully balance one side of the screen on a metal part that was sticking out. It had scratches and dents all over, one speaker didn't work and the HD made scraping noises.

Neither my Inspiron 8200 nor the borrowed Ti G4 says much about the durability of either machine because one had been treated like the Emperor of China and the other had been treated like a Ukranian street dog. This is why I find it sort of pointless with these arguments about laptop durability because nobody says what they did with them. Like, "My HP notebook was flawless but my MacBook did after a year". OK but what about the part where you kept your HP notebook in a drawer and took your MacBook on hunting trips?
 
Macs last no longer than comparable machines produced by other OEMs which shouldn't be a surprise considering the components are the same.

Macs do last longer than bargain basement crap chucked out at certain pricepoints. However, this doesn't include Lauren's machine which has decent components that are just the low end variants of pricier and more powerful iterations.
 
You want a true industrial design? How about the industry standard Lenovo ThinkPads? It has a strong alumnium body that you can hold at ANY END POINT WITHOUT BENDING IT. Try doing that with a macbook, you can't.

Also, it has a spill-proof design so if you spill water on your keyboard, it can be drained without affecting the laptop itself. Try spilling water on your macbook.

And guess what? Not only does it weigh less than the macbooks, its also cheaper.

I have both. The MacBook Pro is stiffer. Not that it matters that much, I'm just saying ;)

And a T series laptop is just as expensive as a MacBook Pro, similarly equipped. Again, just saying :D
 
My arguing which is better days are over....I use multiple platforms on a daily basis...they all have their pros and cons. None of them are superior to me.
 
You want a true industrial design? How about the industry standard Lenovo ThinkPads? It has a strong alumnium body that you can hold at ANY END POINT WITHOUT BENDING IT. Try doing that with a macbook, you can't.

Also, it has a spill-proof design so if you spill water on your keyboard, it can be drained without affecting the laptop itself. Try spilling water on your macbook.

And guess what? Not only does it weigh less than the macbooks, its also cheaper.

You mean these things:

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/notebooks...|t134AB|s&&s_kwcid=lenovo thinkpad|2758969801

Lenovo-ThinkPad-T61-Notebook.jpg


Compared to this:

overview-hero.png


Sorry, but I would much rather take a Unibody MacBook over that ThinkPad (or any of them for that matter). There is no comparison in design. As evidenced by Ives' awards, one is art, the other is, well, I'll just state taste is objective. However, I would rather not have a bunch of the same components thrown into a plastic shell with standard keys and trackpad.

As for the stability claim, the unibody MacBook's don't bend when holding them from any corner. In fact, I'm holding the open corner of my MacBook Pro and I can't say it's bending or feels unsteady.

EDIT: Or do you mean the these, titanium thinkpads:

4717_large.jpg


As for:

Try spilling water on your macbook.

I try not to leave water (or any other liquids) around my portables (and especially smoke). I have seen a few portables with water damage (in fact a friend once spilled Vodka on his PowerBook G4 and after it dried out, no damage), it happens with electronics and only a few portables have water resistant protection (water proof is a misnomer).
 
I have both. The MacBook Pro is stiffer. Not that it matters that much, I'm just saying ;)

And a T series laptop is just as expensive as a MacBook Pro, similarly equipped. Again, just saying :D

But is your overpriced crap spill proof? Does it have more than 2 usb ports?
 
But is your overpriced crap spill proof? Does it have more than 2 usb ports?

Now its clear your just looking for a fight, pretty ironic from the person going on and on about bias.

What does it matter to you if my computer has more or less usb ports? I buy them for my needs. I dont care about the specs on paper that ill never use.

Again, because it seems like we need to keep reminding people, you buy what you want. I prefer macs, so once I have the money, I will have my macbook. Till then im on my toshiba, its not bad for the price, but windows still annoys me.
 
But is your overpriced crap spill proof? Does it have more than 2 usb ports?

I use thinkpads and (mainly because of the keyboard/trackpoint) find it very hard to consider other laptops - but I wouldn't count 'spill proof' as it's best feature :)
 
But is your overpriced crap spill proof? Does it have more than 2 usb ports?

Which one? The MacBook Pro, or the Thinkpad?

And also, how about settling down a bit. Did I insult you? No. I'm disagreeing with you that the Thinkpads are more rigid, because they aren't. How do I know that?

I OWN BOTH!!
 
90% of the people posting in this thread about how horrible MS operating systems are have never even used Vista for more than a store visit.

'Just sayin'.

(posted from a PowerMac G5)
 
It's just as well the T Series have Magnesium alloy rollcages then.

Still ugly as sin, and yeah, as a designer as well, I appreciate aesthetics, especially for a product I spend a lot of my time working on and around.

Side note: Let's assume a portable system will last 2 years on average (very conservative). If the average cost of a Aluminum MacBook is $1299, divide that by two years, and you get roughly $1.77/day. The laptop in the MS ad was $699, about $1/day. Personally, I don't mind spending the additional $.77/day.
 
I know its great isnt it? I love riding around in my T series on the dunes and knowing if i flip im fine :p

This thread really needs to lighten up.

I surf on mine! :)

Yeah, I know what you mean. Both the T-Series and the Macbook Pro are awesome machines aimed at completely different markets.

Still ugly as sin, and yeah, as a designer as well, I appreciate aesthetics.

Cool. I'm a professional. I appreciate hardware that works.
 
I surf on mine! :)

Yeah, I know what you mean. Both the T-Series and the Macbook Pro are awesome machines aimed at completely different markets.



Cool. I'm a professional. I appreciate hardware that works.

Still ugly as sin, and yeah, as a designer as well, I appreciate aesthetics.

They are indeed great machines, but yeah, probably one of the uglier Win laptops.
 
I surf on mine! :)

Yeah, I know what you mean. Both the T-Series and the Macbook Pro are awesome machines aimed at completely different markets.
So true.

I'll put these words into Lauren's mouth the next time someone talks about the "HP POS" not being as good as the MBP.

GO FOR IT! Its time that people try the Obama method when it comes to debating on these forums. That is: be calm, cool, and collected, and first and foremost stick to LOGIC!

Of course Lauren isn't going to give a damn if she doesnt get an optional 9600 card if shes never going to use it.
 
Dunno, it's kind of a Marmite thing - you either love 'em or hate 'em. I fall into the former category.

I love the reliability enough that the the aesthetics don't matter anyway. Definitely a far more solid and reliable machine than any HP, consumer or business, IMO.
 
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