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The comparison is not a true Apples to Apples (no pun intended) comparison.

Sure you CAN get an HP laptop for $700-but it does not compare to a MBP in terms of spec or software.

How much $$ is your time worth? The time you won't have to spend on a MBP getting rid of crappy software that comes preinstalled on the HP that you will NEVER use?

How much time will you save by not having to deal with Windows BSODs?

How much money will you save by not having to buy anti spyware, anti-virus, and anti...?

Once again, M$ presents only 1/2 the story. I guess I expect nothing more from them.

I'll soon have over £1000 ($1500) on a desktop. Seems simple enough. But Apple's 24" 2.66 GHz iMac is £1,200 and that's with rubbish integrated graphics. In fact I have to spend £1,500 to get one with dedicated graphics and even then it's a pretty poor card. For that price, I could get a Core i7 with a decent graphics card. It's a real problem in the UK and I'm willing to bet many people in the UK are either holding out on a Mac purchase or just going for PC (w/ or w/o Windows). I'm used to Apple prices, but I've never seen anything as ridiculous as this.
 
I actually think the ads are good and point out that the "Apple Tax" can be pretty ridiculous some times. I

I think the "Microsoft tax" is much more ridiculous.

Microsoft tax: Paying more for a PC with free Linux than for an identical PC with Windows, because OEMs were forced into contracts where Microsoft could force them to pay for Windows even when it wasn't installed. You pay the Microsoft tax even without getting a Microsoft product.

Apple tax: The worlds best computer design, the worlds best quality in computers, the worlds best service, the worlds best OS, and it costs a bit more. If you don't like it, you don't pay for it.
 
Well, lets see how Windows 7 is before we give up on it. Some people have tried it and liked it. Leo Laporte has used it and thinks it is the first Windows a Mac user might like. However, he points out this is a beta version which may end up being quite unlike the final version. Right now it may not have all the "security" features that slow Vista down (apparently.)

By default the UAC is turned down, so it's not quite as secure as Vista out of the box, but that's a simple fix really.

It's a cleaner UI than Vista, and it's far faster. I've been using build 7000 since Feb., and apparently the later builds are even faster. It's quite impressive, and they've done a nice job.

The task bar irritates me, as it tries to be the OS X dock but kinda fails, but apparently they've already changed that too.
 
How many millions more people are there out there who love Windows silently though?

And what does that matter?

I was responding to the "does the OS really matter" question. And hell yes, to me, it does. If I find it justifiable to spend $1500 on a computer mainly for the OS then to me it sure as hell matters.
 
I'm always amazed at how many people feel the need to defend Macs. Macs have a higher profit margin than other computers. You still do pay a premium for a Mac over a PC of roughly the same specs. If the design, Mac OS and iLife are worth it to you then great but they aren't for everyone.

This is a good ad and is probably more effective than most of their recent ads, especially given the current economic situation. Anyone reading this forum is probably not someone who would be swayed about their computer purchase based on an ad but for the majority of consumers I think this ad could be effective.
 
Steve Ballmer (I personally wish he would go through a congressional hearing with other CEOs for driving their companies to the ground (Vista) and disrespecting other companies), likes to bash Apple and recently said that Macs were basically 500 dollars more and plus a logo compared to PCs. I think Bill Gates is a more honorable person than that bald barbarian.

- Macs and Mac OS X are ages ahead of Windows, they should focus more on the usefulness of their OS compared to Mac OS X. I guess they have nothing to prove except for better customization, which leads to this last-ditch plan advertisement about pricing. But what you pay is what you get.
 
This site has become laughable with the amount of insanely rude people here, the complete lack of moderation, and the incredible amount of bias on both sides of the OS fence.

Thankfully much of it is contained within the News Discussion area, so perhaps I'll stick to the other parts of the forum.

If you think my statement is rude and you think that consultant's line is correct please do us all a favor and do not post in the news discussion area.
 
I'm always amazed at how many people feel the need to defend Macs. Macs have a higher profit margin than other computers. You still do pay a premium for a Mac over a PC of roughly the same specs. If the design, Mac OS and iLife are worth it to you then great but they aren't for everyone.

This is a good ad and is probably more effective than most of their recent ads, especially given the current economic situation. Anyone reading this forum is probably not someone who would be swayed about their computer purchase based on an ad but for the majority of consumers I think this ad could be effective.

Good point. i actually thought that as well the first time i watched it. if a person is thinking "conservative" primarily before they make a new computer purchase (a lot of people are) then this ad could have some relevance. i still think it's a sub-par commercial content wise though...
 
If you think my statement is rude and you think that consultant's line is correct please do us all a favor and do not post in the news discussion area.

Actually I was agreeing with your line of thinking when you said there was a lot of "crazy talk" in this thread. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
 
lol @ all the people trying to justify their $2k+ price tag of macbook pro's compared to a sub-$1k windows laptop. face it, apple robs its dedicated fans, and ***** all over them in terms of demand. you get much more for the $1k on a windows laptop than you do on a mac. for $2k you can get a windows-based laptop which would run circles around a base 17" macbook pro, or even the top priced macbook pro. the truth is that windows users are smart enough to know that for that much you might as well go with a real desktop computer instead of wasting all that money on something that's slower than a desktop.

and for people complaining about "eww it's a windows" or "eww it will crash" ... i've had my computer for five years, and i understand that it's not the fastest by today's standards, but the only time i've had problems with it was when it was overheating (which was fixed by a new hsf), but then again you mac users never had to deal with overheating problems ...oh wait.
 
lol @ all the people trying to justify their $2k+ price tag of macbook pro's compared to a sub-$1k windows laptop. face it, apple robs its dedicated fans, and ***** all over them in terms of demand. you get much more for the $1k on a windows laptop than you do on a mac. for $2k you can get a windows-based laptop which would run circles around a base 17" macbook pro, or even the top priced macbook pro. the truth is that windows users are smart enough to know that for that much you might as well go with a real desktop computer instead of wasting all that money on something that's slower than a desktop.

and for people complaining about "eww it's a windows" or "eww it will crash" ... i've had my computer for five years, and i understand that it's not the fastest by today's standards, but the only time i've had problems with it was when it was overheating (which was fixed by a new hsf), but then again you mac users never had to deal with overheating problems ...oh wait.

And what part of "I dont like windows" isnt valid enough for you to accept others choices?
 
lol @ all the people trying to justify their $2k+ price tag of macbook pro's compared to a sub-$1k windows laptop. face it, apple robs its dedicated fans, and ***** all over them in terms of demand. you get much more for the $1k on a windows laptop than you do on a mac. for $2k you can get a windows-based laptop which would run circles around a base 17" macbook pro, or even the top priced macbook pro. the truth is that windows users are smart enough to know that for that much you might as well go with a real desktop computer instead of wasting all that money on something that's slower than a desktop.

and for people complaining about "eww it's a windows" or "eww it will crash" ... i've had my computer for five years, and i understand that it's not the fastest by today's standards, but the only time i've had problems with it was when it was overheating (which was fixed by a new hsf), but then again you mac users never had to deal with overheating problems ...oh wait.

How many times people:

You get what you pay for.
 
And what part of "I dont like windows" isnt valid enough for you to accept others choices?

That's perfectly fine, I understand there are people who don't like Windows.

What I personally have a problem with is all the people in this thread bashing people who don't mind it so much, like they literally believe no one would want to use it.
 
FOUND ONE!

http://www.pcrumors.com

Oh... wait...;)

Haha, awesome! :D

It's kind of true that there's a huge variety of windoes laptops out their, one for every niche market if you want. The ad highlight an affordable laptop with a large display which is nice for watching DVDs in a dorm. The keyboard, trackpad and display quality (and resolution) are probably sub-par for working, but that's not what this computer is intended for.

There's also laptops for really mobile people who just want to surf, do minimal e-mailing, listen to some music. That's what netbooks are for.

Then you have the business notebook which cost about 2-3 times as much as a laptop with exactly the same specs. The differences are usually the more compact size, keyboard, screen quality, connectivity options, battery life, customer support and ergonomy. The choice of components is usually better on business machines is usually better, too. Highlighting a fast FSB as a feature when the RAM is only half as fast is weird because the RAM becomes the bottleneck. Or having 4 GBs of RAM but a bundled Windows version that only lets you use 2 or 3...

Then there's the gaming notebooks. They have decent power but are around 3 inches thick, have loud fans and one hour battery life. This is great for games because they still have a capable machine that fits in a backpack. Lugging aroung your Desktop, monitor, mouse and keyboard is to 90's. :)
Still, a comparable desktop (display included) would be less than half the price of the gaming laptop.


I wanted a portable Mac to do everything I do: writing papers, surfing on the bed, editing audio and video, managing tons of photos, doing software development, watching movies on the go, etc. The Macbook works great for all these tasks (except maybe video editing). Surfing is more fun than on any Windows laptop because of the huge trackpad and 2 finger 2D scrolling. I don't miss the mouse at all. The keyboard is excellent, very fast and quiet typing. There's no distracting lights that don't give me really relevant info. The hard drive LED is only there to tell you that the computer has actually crashed and the hard drive isn't even trying anymore, right?. The display on the Macbook is stellar compared to most 13" laptop displays. Battery life adequate, webcam a new feature 3 years ago. It still delivers nicely after 3 years, all I really lust after is a nacklit keyboard and 64 bit (my Macbook has a 32 bit core duo). I also like running the current OS and Snow Leopard probably runs much better on current machines than on 3 year old ones. Mac's resale values are great so upgrading every 3 years isn't that expensive if you sell the old one. A regular windows laptop is worth close to nothing after a very short period of time.
 
And what part of "I dont like windows" isnt valid enough for you to accept others choices?

I wish that your logic could be applied to other people in this thread. I have plenty of friends who have said "I don't like Mac OS" after trying the machines we have at University. Of course, it's impossible to tell someone who just spent $2000 on a machine that can be outperformed by one half that price that they made a mistake, so we'll just have to grin and bear the Mac users way up there on their horses.
 
I know many will not like my opinion, but I think it's a smart move by Microsoft. Price and software choices are a big reason why I mainly use PCs as a personal choice. I use a Mac at work and I am getting an iPhone, so I'm not totally about Microsoft.

I would agree that I'd rather spend less on a laptop, especially since I end up upgrading every 3-5 years. Plus when I DJ (I use M-Audio's Torq on a PC), I don't have to worry about ruining an expensive laptop with the kinds of environments you get in clubs and raves. Better to spend less on the thing you take out like that so it can be easily replaced.

People find it insane that I'll do design work and web development as my career, but I mostly use PCs. Again it's a personal preference and I don't hold anything against Mac users (except when they try to paint me as a dummy for not being a sheep).


NOW...the big thing Apple can do to counter all these ads is to show how much software you get on a Mac compared to a PC.

Yes you can get a PC laptop for $500-$800, but if you want Office, you have to pay extra. If you want software to make web sites, graphics, etc...you have to pay extra. Yes they have Windows Movie Maker and WordPerfect, but you just can't use that crap when you need Office.

So when you buy a Mac, I am assuming you get the laptop PLUS iLife and iWork. Correct?

So for more money you get the whole package...not part of one. That's about the best thing Apple can do to counteract this.



BTW...I am thinking about a Mac mini...only because I want to learn to develop iPhone apps...and I can't do it on Windows apparently.
 
That's perfectly fine, I understand there are people who don't like Windows.

What I personally have a problem with is all the people in this thread bashing people who don't mind it so much, like they literally believe no one would want to use it.

Yea that does get annoying. There are plenty of machines out there you can buy that wont have many problems. I just personally can't stand using Windows anymore.
 
I'm guessing you haven't tried a new Mac with iLife 09. GarageBand is Apple's latest revenue stream and includes a store where you can choose to buy extras. Sounds like sponsored bloatware to me.

Remove things yourself if you're not happy with them. Leaving them there isn't going to cause any problems.

It's not 2004, people don't need virus protection on Windows any more.

External webcam for $80? Where do you shop? Oh right, the APPLE STORE. I get it. That is if she even needs one. I've never used my iSight and I don't think I ever will. Partly because none of my friends have Macs and thus cannot communicate with me on iChat using video.

Downgrade to XP if you want, but if you leave Vista on it (this is 2009, we're on SP2 now) you'll be just fine. It might take you a little while to get used to where some things moved to, but it should be a better experience overall.

I don't really know about garageband being bloatware, but if you don't want it, you can choose not to install garageband. And the best part is if you don't want it, just drag it in the trash, and it's gone. Nothing against Windows, but just saying... it's pretty easy to get rid of "bloatware" on the mac side.

2004 and virus protection do not go hand in hand. Do you realize how many exploits there are on your browser right now? It's like that for your OS too. Mac's are getting targeted these days as well, but at least while I can, I will ride the "virus free" mac-wave, while I can.

And just cause you have no use for an external webcam, doesn't mean the masses don't. Most all college students have used this feature at least once in their life. I used to iSight with my girlfriend when I was recruiting for internships out of state. She used a cheap $15 webcam, which was terrible for me. Instead of buying a quality PC compatible $40-80 webcam(yes they get this high and even higher, mind you, that you have to pay for quality), we decided to get her a mac. She has enjoyed hers very much. She hates technology, but she loves her mac. It was on a whim, but well worth since we do use webcams every time we are far away.

Also, I use Vista to program at work and school. When I get home I use XP. XP is by far more productive still for my needs. Although I agree, people need to move on and start using newer technologies (Vista, 7). The only reason I use XP at home is cause I don't spend enough time on my PC computers at home to care what OS is on them.
 
Those of us who used BOTH PC's and Mac's extensively know that you can get the SAME or BETTER quality hardware in a PC versus a Mac at about 70% of the price.

BS. I own a small business and we buy both Macs and PCs. I've been doing this for years.

You're intentionally confusing quality with marketing specs.

If you price out a PC (let's say a Dell) and a Mac with similar specifications, the Dell will be cheaper. If you're actually honest with yourself, and add enough to the Dell that it has the same quality components (by which I mean the same graphics subsystem), the Dell will be about 15-25% cheaper.

If you aren't honest, and simply specify the same MHz rating but of components that have totally different performance per MHz (for instance)... well then you're just being dishonest and we have nothing to discuss.

Of course, run side by side, the Dell will still be slower, because similar programs run faster and more reliably on the similar-spec OS X machine. This is not an idle claim and I'm not interested in debating it... go try it yourself. To actually get similar performance out of the Dell, you have to specify a more powerful machine, and then the price benefit disappears (and there's no way to make the software as reliable, for any price).

What does this say about the OS that the ad is trying to push?

But even ignoring that, the Dell is built with much lower quality components, and it will need replacement within 1.5 to 2 years. This is especially true of cheap notebook computers, the subject of this ad. I'm writing this on an iMac that was purchased just under two years ago, and it runs perfectly well and has never crashed on me (not once). I expect at least another year on it before I give it up, and when I DO, it's going to be because I'm at the top of the food chain and I get to get the new gear... it will become someone else's machine. I will easily get 4-5 useful, snappy-performing years of service out of this machine, and in the interrim, I will not have had to pay for the repairs that the commodity PCs require.

I did in fact get 5 years out of my PowerBook, and was still happy with its performance, but upgraded so I could run VMWare to run Windows programs to help support our customers. Note that nothing I could have added to a Dell could have allowed it to run the Mac programs that I much prefer to use
for my own work.

Had I owned a Dell notebook, the chassis and hinges would have broken years ago.

You can even have one custom made to specs chosing everything from your specific motherboard to RAM type etc. You can't do that with a Mac even at the inflated price.

In other words, in order to perform reasonably well, you have to go in and specify the actual components that the Mac ships with from the factory. It's well understood that for desktop-class machines, custom configurations exist so you can upgrade from the dirt-cheap components the manufacturer specifies in order to hit the dirt-cheap sale price.

If you think differently, then you're just being a Mac fanboy. :)

Here we go again.... "lalala.. I've had my say and I'm not listening to you... lalala"

I own more PCs than Macs because my company does IT support and we support what the customer owns. I know what these things cost because I pay the bills, and I know exactly what breaks and what doesn't. PCs break, both the software and the race-to-the-bottom-of-the-barrel hardware.

Now, in terms of the SOFTWARE O/S, it's debatable which is better. But that's a DIFFERENT issue.

A. It's not really much of a debate. There are really no true MS or Windows advocates out there, only MS and Windows apologists. If you claim otherwise you aren't really being realistic. The only arguments left out there for Windows is that it's what everyone else uses and because of that there's more software written for it. It's got inertia and that's not always a good thing. If there were no Mac or Linux for MS to need to copy, we'd still have Windows Me and Windows NT.

B. It's not a different issue. Did you not pay attention to the topic? MS is intentionally directing attention away from its own product with this ad campaign and it worked great... on you.
 
Apple tax: The worlds best computer design, the worlds best quality in computers, the worlds best service, the worlds best OS, and it costs a bit more. If you don't like it, you don't pay for it.

So that's why my logic board failed three times, then they had to replace the display and then the inverter on separate occasions. ;)

The main components of a Mac (hard drive, RAM, graphics card, processor, display etc.) are all components that other PC manufacturers can get their hands on. You're not paying any more for "premium components".
 
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