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Best Buy's role in this...

I think the opportunity for Best Buy to sell Apple is a privilege. It's very obvious that "Lauren" went into a Best Buy. If I was Apple, I'd seriously reconsider my partnership with Best Buy after this.
 
And nevertheless, the six year old "legacy" system that I'm typing this on is still being supported.
Yes, they still support G5 computers from 2006 (yay!), but you know what I mean. I remember when they removed serial ports with no notice so users of expensive bigass 8x8 MIDI interfaces had to drill holes in their G3:s to fit them with a "stealth port". Or how about when they threw out the entire system OS9, made a half-arsed effort to create a "classic mode" where only half the software worked, and the whole thing was removed a couple of years down the line. When I talk about legacy support in the Microsoft sense of the word I mean stuff like being able to run software that was made for effing Windows 3.11.

Sure, Snow Leopard will be the beginning of the end, but realistically, it will easily go another 1-2 more years...the equivalent of 5 Moore's Law lifespans from a product lifecycle perspective. In general, its a more wise question to ask ones self how many total years of product support is realistic and reasonable?
I personally like Apple's way better, even if it gets overly harsh against legacy users on occasion. All manufacturers can ditch all 9-pin, 25-pin, PS/2 and VGA ports for all I care. But this isn't about personal tastes, it was about the work that goes into development of the OS.

The reality is that MS isn't really doing any better with Vista's minimum hardware requirements...nor will Windows 7 not result in some legacy PC hardware similarly being orphaned. But if its an old 800MHz Pentium, that's its okay, because that's not Apple's fault...even though that's called a double standard.
OK, we're on different definitions of "legacy" here. You're right, legacy support insofar as Vista supporting old machines is concerned is abysmal, but I was talking about legacy support for software no matter how old, peripherals no matter how old, etc.

But you did explicitly say "Have we filled the $500-$2,000 discrepancy", which unambiguously refers to a price difference.
It wasn't an exact reference to any given comparison, just ballpark numbers. $2000 was not about MBP vs. "Lauren's HP" at all, but the difference between what a customer will have to pay for a high-end desktop PC with consumer-grade Nehalem (like the Dell Studio XPS) and a Mac Pro (admittedly with server-grade Nehalem, but they don't offer anything less so that's what we have to go with, and Dell has no Xeon Nehalem machine yet).

Let's see...
Mac Pro quad 2.66
6 GB DDR3 RAM
2x1 TB HD
ATI Radeon HD4870 512 MB
One Superdrive
No AppleCare, everything else default config

35,095 SEK ($4,285)


Dell Studio XPS core i7 quad 2.66
6 GB DDR3 RAM
2x1 TB HD
ATI Radeon HD4850 512 MB
One 16x DVD+/-RW
1 year "premium" support, whatever that is (on-site repairs, probably)

14,779 SEK ($1,804)

$2,481 difference.

Now let's adjust for the difference between Xeon and Core i7...

i7: 3,120 SEK
Xeon: 6,095 SEK

That's an additional $363, so subtract that from $2,481 = $2,118.

As for ATI 4870 vs 4850 I really don't know the difference there, but at least they're on the same planet.

This is no MBP 17" vs bargain-basement PC with AMD CPU. The only difference here is Vista vs OS X and Aluminium bucket vs. plastic bucket. Is the enclosure worth $2,118? No. Let's be generous and say that it's worth 500 bucks more than the plastic one ($50 is closer to mark, but I'm feeling generous today so let's multiply that by 10x), that still leaves a $1,618 Apple supergreed booster margin (TM), aka Arbitrary Apple Tax.

With the Dell at $1,804 + 363 = $2,167, I'd be willing to up to as much as $2,800-3,000 for the Apple, considering the added value of the nicer enclosure, the cable-free interior, OS X and a bit of brand tax thrown in. But $4,285? Not worth it, nothing to show for it. I'd gladly buy a BMW though.
 
Well, Apple Pages doesn't have cross-references. Cross-references! One of the most basic features of word processing, and Pages doesn't have it... how on Earth could it replace Word?

So, even better use OpenOffice for free. Personally, I don't need it, but don't need to spend huge sums for one feature.
 
Big brother? Fingerprint readers are wonderful. You can set your screensaver to a short interval with password protection - and if locks a quick swipe and you're back. I love them.

Where I work, the first thing our IT department does to a laptop with a fingerprint reader is try to disable it. They don't like them.

Everything I've ever read about fingerprint readers indicates that they are easy to fool. Just Googling the subject bring up a lot of topics of fingerprint readers being cracked.
 
Well my new macbook pro arrived on Saturday. It's my first mac and the reasons i bought it were:

Great development environment
gui on top and unixy underneath.
Next time the O.S, is upgraded, I won't have to chuck the whole thing away and buy a new one because the hardware is too slow.
It just works.

Yes, it cost me more than a PC. After having it only two days would I buy another given the cost difference? Yes, absolutely. I have had around 8 PC's. It's not all about the price.
 
I think the opportunity for Best Buy to sell Apple is a privilege. It's very obvious that "Lauren" went into a Best Buy. If I was Apple, I'd seriously reconsider my partnership with Best Buy after this.

Nah, I doubt they'll even care.

In the grand scheme of things, the Apple commercials are full of BS, the MS commercials are full of BS. It's marketing, and anyone who buys a computer based purely on advertising without researching a $700-$2000 purchase is foolish and gets what they deserve.

Apple people will continue to be Apple people, MS people will continue to be MS people......and they'll continue to hate each other.

People like me that use all three will continue to shake their heads at both groups.

Given the usage of people these days for computers; pictures, video, internet, and e-mail, it's a surprise people bother to use either, when they could be using Linux for free.
 
Actually no. This "price" or "user experience" issue is something that needs to be addressed and debated otherwise ignorance perseveres.


This debate has been going on for 2 decades. Nothing new has come of this and it's just all rehashing the same crap.

Windows is hardly as bad as it is made out on this board.

I chose a Mac in 1987 and have never looked back. Most will never make that decision for various reasons and to continue this 'debate' is a waste of time.
 
Yes your are .

Did you read the part right after that where I said Vista and 7 are technically more secure? Please do so again, thanks.

Actually, if you want to go for the ultimate security by obscurity angle, you're far better off with Ubuntu Linux.
 
Nah, I doubt they'll even care.

In the grand scheme of things, the Apple commercials are full of BS, the MS commercials are full of BS. It's marketing, and anyone who buys a computer based purely on advertising without researching a $700-$2000 purchase is foolish and gets what they deserve.

Apple people will continue to be Apple people, MS people will continue to be MS people......and they'll continue to hate each other.

People like me that use all three will continue to shake their heads at both groups.

Given the usage of people these days for computers; pictures, video, internet, and e-mail, it's a surprise people bother to use either, when they could be using Linux for free.

Elitism gained by scorning elitism. classic.
 
So, even better use OpenOffice for free. Personally, I don't need it, but don't need to spend huge sums for one feature.

We're talking about on spending more to buy a Mac because of its software. And then you suggest to use OpenOffice.org, which is the free alternative to Microsoft Office. ;)

Speaking of software value, I think Microsoft Office is worth it. It's a great piece of software (on Windows). I prefer to buy the home version, which is not expensive for what it offers, than using OpenOffice.org, which is also a good product, but does not quite match MS Office.
 
Elitism gained by scorning elitism. classic.

What am I elitist about? I am not elitist against Apple, I have a Mac. I'm not elitist against Windows, I've got a Thinkpad. I'm not elitist against Linux, I run it on several PC's and servers.

I'm elitist against blind fanboys, absolutely.

more or less, user friendliness

im just not the biggest fan of working in terminal to install apps/themes/etc

That hasn't been necessary since 2005. Install a theme by dragging the tarball into the themes preferences; it automatically installs.

Install apps by going to the Synaptic GUI and searching for what you want. If it's not there, download the .deb file and doubleclick on it, and install it like any Windows application.
 
Speaking of software value, I think Microsoft Office is worth it. It's a great piece of software (on Windows). I prefer to buy the home version, which is not expensive for what it offers, than using OpenOffice.org, which is also a good product, but does not quite match MS Office.

Those on this forum do think about the value proposition, but most of the Mac purchasers blindly buy MS Office when OpenOffice would do just fine. Actually, if Apple ran ads that suggested not buying MS Office, it would hurt MS much more than any Mac purchase.
 
Those on this forum do think about the value proposition, but most of the Mac purchasers blindly buy MS Office when OpenOffice would do just fine. Actually, if Apple ran ads that suggested not buying MS Office, it would hurt MS much more than any Mac purchase.

They'd never do that though, because then MS really would pull the plug on Apple development, and full MS Office compatibility is what's getting them in the door at businesses.
 
What am I elitist about? I am not elitist against Apple, I have a Mac. I'm not elitist against Windows, I've got a Thinkpad. I'm not elitist against Linux, I run it on several PC's and servers.

I'm elitist against blind fanboys, absolutely.


Well said.

I have had the privilege to try a small netbook, MSI wind u100, with OSX 10.5 installed. A very nice machine in the price range Apple won't enter. I suppose the hardware is mostly the same as in any "budget" Mac (yes, I know the CPU is one that Apple has not used (yet?)).

And the user experience - quite good. Biggest problem getting used to a somewhat smaller keyboard. Using that keyboard is stellar compared to the one on the iPhone, IMHO.

Apple probably could have made a lot of money licensing the OSX to be used on PCs, but they would lose some control, and who would buy their own expensive hardware if any grey box would do?

Nice thought though; you could consider any machine, and make your own choice between windows, OSX or Linux. I guess Microsoft would not be happy at all.

Oh well...
 
Those on this forum do think about the value proposition, but most of the Mac purchasers blindly buy MS Office when OpenOffice would do just fine. Actually, if Apple ran ads that suggested not buying MS Office, it would hurt MS much more than any Mac purchase.

I gotta admit, I could kick myself for shelling out $400 for MS Office for Mac. Open Office would have done everything I need.
 
What kind of losers feel compelled to write an article about how the ad is "fake"? These are probably 35-old men who have seen 6,000 commercials, and they actually thought that all of them were REAL until now?

Look. Wouldn't it be logical to take a REAL person, randomly, and offer him/her money? Why did they need to use an actress?

The Apple commercial featured real celebrities, not actors pretending to be celebrities.

Yes, they still support G5 computers from 2006 (yay!), but you know what I mean. I remember when they removed serial ports with no notice so users of expensive bigass 8x8 MIDI interfaces had to drill holes in their G3:s to fit them with a "stealth port". Or how about when they threw out the entire system OS9, made a half-arsed effort to create a "classic mode" where only half the software worked, and the whole thing was removed a couple of years down the line. When I talk about legacy support in the Microsoft sense of the word I mean stuff like being able to run software that was made for effing Windows 3.11.


I personally like Apple's way better, even if it gets overly harsh against legacy users on occasion. All manufacturers can ditch all 9-pin, 25-pin, PS/2 and VGA ports for all I care. But this isn't about personal tastes, it was about the work that goes into development of the OS.

......


When I use Windows, I feel like I've been completely ripped off. Every single cent I spent for that PC, completely wasted.

When I use OS X, I feel that my computer is completely worth every single cent I paid for it.

And quite a lot of people feel the same.
 
Mac fan RAGE = Publicity + $$$$$$ for Microsoft

John C. Dvorak does the same thing for page hits.

The difference now is that Dvorak has been fairly positive when discussing Apple, and talks about how Microsoft "is done".

I've not seen much "rage" either. Just a lot of impassioned people.

That's just like Apple though; they make products that people are passionate about. Microsoft can only compete on price. ;)
 
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