New Microsoft Ad Campaign Targets Mac Prices

[bruinsrme]

is... my last Mac laptop that I bought in 1999, lasted for 6 years without a blip, hick-up or issue. I used it everyday for those 6 years and it worked flawless. I don't know of a single non-apple laptop that would have lasted and been useful for that long.

All the Mac's we have in-house are 2 to 4 years old (two MacBooks, one MacBook Pro, and one iMac). None have issues. We've never had viruses. We've never had to "reinstall" or do anything to our Macs.

Yes... you pay a premium for Macs, but in my opinion, as well as many others, (remember, Apple makes several computers that are in the top 10 selling desktop and laptops out there), it's worth every penny to not have to be a slave to my computer... instead.... it's a slave to me!

I have a Dell 5000E bought in 2000. I still use it for all my HT tuning.
It has a little duct tape on it holding it together after the last fall but it is still working. Dell inspiron 5100 series that is at least 5 years old that looks brand new and still work.
there are two for ya.

 

[yossim]

I have a Dell 5000E bought in 2000. I still use it for all my HT tuning.
It has a little duct tape on it holding it together after the last fall but it is still working. Dell inspiron 5100 series that is at least 5 years old that looks brand new and still work.
there are two for ya.

Those are in the minority.

 

[wiseoracle]

I am serious....

Yes, I am in IT and I own a various assortment of hardware: mac, pc, and Sun. I wrote my reply from the average user's perspective. Yes, I know that Norton bites however, the fact remains that they are still in business because laptop manufacturers bundle their software with the $699 PC. People generally take the path of least resistance and usually do exactly what the PC tells them because they know nothing about the alternatives. The average user is not as resourceful as the average IT guy/girl. This is why you see plenty of folks lining up a Geek Squad to pay serious money to perform simple maintenance tasks that we can do ourselves.

Ubuntu, Mandriva, etc are all good products and I do use linux for some of my development efforts however, the average user is not going to seek these distributions out and install them.


The new battery comment came from my own first hand experience with "budget" PCs. I purchased 5 one year ago for family members who insisted on getting the paper special. They quickly found that the batteries were the 4 or 6 cell variety(can't remember which) and that an extended battery would need to be purchased if they hoped to use the notebook more that 2 hours.

Again, my arguments have been about the hidden cost associated the average user will incur when buying the $699 pc. I am sure that there are some good ones out there but I have owned 4 compaqs (before HP) and 2 HP's of late and the quality of the material used for the body of the laptops has gone downhill. I have two older P3 based compaqs that are total tanks with regard to heft but they have had no body issues and work without incident. My two HP DV series have both had body/mechanical issues after one year of use and HP refused to correct the problem free of charge.

And Yes, I own a few macs as well but I can guarantee you that I have NEVER spent anything close to $3500 to purchase them.

LOL Norton? SERIOUSLY? i hope to God that you are not an IT guy.
Tune up utilities....... last time i checked CCleaner is free
spysweeper and Norton can both replaced by the best AV at this time, Antivir, guess what, its FREE (second place is ESET smart security, third is Bit defender and AVG)
Diskeeper Lite is free, Diskeeper is more for domain/network maintainence.
nero? cdburner xp is free, and most of the time nero basic comes with the comptuers for free.
office 2007, openoffice/staroffice is FREE
battery upgrade? WTF? it should last at least 2 years before dropping to 50% capacity


build quality poor? HP/Compaq laptops are made by both Quanta and Compal, Apple used to use Quanta to build macbookpros, but now they are using Hon Hai.

you also are forgetting that alot of people will DBAN the HDD and install ubuntu or linux mint (both of these OS's are DEAD easy to install with a live CD setup environment)

Ubuntu has more software built in on a 700MB disc than OSX and XP/Vista also ubuntu has a massive repository for free software

you remind me of that mactard at work that wanted to spend $3500+ just so he could

get a MBP, install XP to add to the domain (boot camp) then buy VMWARE ace workstation, and run OSX in that vmware workstation, then get another copy of iwork or whatever the apple equiv to office is just so he wouldnt have to email files back and forth between his MBA and Dell work laptop.

 

[pr5owner]

My M5 cost more than a Toyota Corolla but that is comparing Apples to Oranges.

Somehow trying to say all laptops are the same and the only thing that counts is trying to get the lowest price model makes no sense.

well lets say

CPU = engine
CPU Clock = Horse power
Ram = Handling
Ram Speed = braking (60-0)
HDD = Acceleration (like boot up time)
HDD Speed = Slalom
esata, usb, vga, hdmi = incar options like power seats, mirrors, moonroof, etc

lets compare my original MSi computer since its the same price ($999)

CPU Type Intel Core 2 Duo P8400 2.26G
Screen 17" WSXGA+
Memory Size 4GB DDR2
Hard Disk 320GB
Optical Drive DVD Super Multi
Graphics Card NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
Video Memory 512MB DDR3 VRAM
Communication Modem, Gigabit LAN and WLAN
Card slot 1 x Express Card

Macbook = M5
Msi = Corolla

Engine and Horse Power
M5 = V10 500HP
Corolla = V12 750HP (2.26 is faster than 2.0 obviously)

Handling
M5 = 0.88Gs (2GB ram)
Corolla = 1.76Gs (4GB of ram)

braking 60-0
M5 = 110ft (thats actaully really good in real life)
Corolla = 110ft (667MHz vs 667MHz ram)

Accleration 0-60
M5 = 4.8s
Corolla = 3.5s (320GB HDDs even at the same RPM is vastly superior than a 120GB due to data density)


Slalom
M5 = 68.9MPH
corolla 69.9MPH

eSata, VGA, HDMI
the corolla has more features than the M5

numerical pad (easier to use spreadsheets with)
the corolla has more legroom, head room, etc, etc

looks like the corolla slaughters the M5 for cheaper, and uses Regular fuel instead of Preimium

 

[KnightWRX]

The ones that make you go hmmmmmm at the moment are the Mac Pro, and to a lesser extent the Mac Mini and the MBP 15".

Not really. Compare them to their competitors (the Dell Precision line, the Dell Studio Hybrid line and the Dell Lattitude line) and you'll see they aren't really more expensive.

 

[123]

try looking at brands that are the ORIGINAL (Asus, Clevo/Sager, Quanta, MSi, Compal) you will see the quality is much higher (most companies will keep the highest quality items to themselves)

Yeah, like the MSi one you posted earlier:

"The build quality is very poor, the feel of it is very cheap. I am very dissapointed in this laptop for the price it should be alot better than it is."

And please back this up: "most companies will keep the highest quality items to themselves"

Why shouldn't they sell parts of equal quality to other manufacturers if the price is right? Especially when you're a lesser known brand and make way more money with these contracts than with your own computers.

 

[pr5owner]

I will happily acknowledge that PC's are cheaper, however upon doing so they refuse to acknowledge that a Mac is a superior, more robust, rock solid, reliable system compared to the PC. For some, in this climate especially, the cost of something is more important than the quality.

superior?

tell me 1 mac that can outperform my $1700 inferior Gaming PC

Core2duo E8400 overclocked to 4.2GHz
4GB of patriot 1066MHz ram
dual 74GB WD Raptors in Raid 0
1x 500GB Seagate
Dual GTX280s in SLI 2GB of video ram
eVGA 750 SLI FTW (mobo with a TON of Overclocking options and expansion ports)
Bluray BD ROM
Lightscribe 22x DVDRW/RAM
Acer 21.5 1080p monitor

oh and that mac has to be from last year.

my gaming PC running vista 64bit has never crashed, i ran orthos (multithreaded prime95) for 2 days straight
memtest for 2 days straight
i have over 20 games installed and none of them have slowed down or crashed (games are more demanding since it requires all your HW to be fast)
and i can run Crysis at a reasonable 60FPS avg

Yeah, like the MSi one you posted earlier:

"The build quality is very poor, the feel of it is very cheap. I am very dissapointed in this laptop for the price it should be alot better than it is."

And please back this up: "most companies will keep the highest quality items to themselves"

Why shouldn't they sell parts of equal quality to other manufacturers if the price is right? Especially when you're a lesser known brand and make way more money with these contracts than with your own computers.

MSi laptops are generally high quality, this one has 5/5 stars.. or Eggs

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834152086

also check out the MSi wind and what people say about the "quality" of cheapest MSi laptop

 

[blackhand1001]

By engaging Apple in a direct comparison/attack, big ol' Microsoft has taken the bait and invited Apple into a much more direct marketing battle. And now you can't say that Apple is "picking on Microsoft." But given that Apple has more than doubled its market share at Redmond's expense, you figured this was coming.

However MS' biggest battle isn't with Apple, it's with history. Like Ford, Standard Oil, and the other monopolists, the monopoly will go away either by competition or via government intervention. And unlike American monopolies of the past, Microsoft is battling foreign governments around the globe, trying to maintain the unmaintainable.

By lending credibility and viability to the Mac with this campaign (otherwise, why would they attack it?), Microsoft invites more open comparisons to its software, Apple's and even open source. And although you can buy a cheaper computer in most categories, MS falls down in many ways:

- MS Office is much more expensive than Apple's iWork
- Vista Premium is much more expensive than MacOS X.5
- Apple support surpasses MS and all others in independent rankings
- Mac resale value is much higher (and will subsidize future Mac buys)
- Mac quality is generally superior to all other PC makes
- and there's more

Apple may have to respond with some pricing/model options to address the coming two-way debate which, for consumers, isn't a bad thing. But what would be hilarious would be for Apple to put the laptop this woman/actress bought into Apple Stores, and place it right next to their MacBooks in order to show what $699 really gets you. Call it the Mac Challenge (Pepsi deja vu) and let the consumer decide.

If mac build quality is always so superior why have so many models suffered mechanical failures of hinges or of the clips that held the screens down. Apple isn't god. Apples build quality doesn't even come close to what lenovo thinkpad gives you.

 

[123]

Not really. Compare them to their competitors (the Dell Precision line, the Dell Studio Hybrid line and the Dell Lattitude line) and you'll see they aren't really more expensive.

Any i7 system is a competitor of the MP Quad and costs less than half.

 

[blackhand1001]

Not really. Compare them to their competitors (the Dell Precision line, the Dell Studio Hybrid line and the Dell Lattitude line) and you'll see they aren't really more expensive.

The hardware you get in those is superior to apples though. Their 17 inch has an rgb led backlit display. And the studio doesn't even run close to the price of the macbook pro. Also the graphics card the mac pro is so low end i don;t even think that the precisions offer it as an option.

Here is an example of anyone who claims apple doesn't make ridiculous margins on their hardware.

 

[mosx]

Ask any video editor about what's the *only* decent (if not the only one) video editing SUITE for Windows. Remember, SUITE, NOT Video editor.

The sad thing is, that person could still buy a system more powerful than the Mac Pro and that software and still come in at less money than they would have spent on a Mac Pro and said software.

Buying something and improving it is not copying, is not a ripoff.

Double standard much? Apple fans blast MS for doing the same thing, yet its okay for Apple to do it?

OS X was built off of open software and is still better than Windows...Good job, Microsoft!

Oh yeah? How is it better? Why can't I cut and paste in Finder? Why can't I play blu-ray movies?

The exception that confirms the rule. I can't believe that people still can't admit that OS X is more stable than Windows.

Because it's not. In the last 2 years I've used Tiger, Leopard, XP, Vista, and Windows 7. Vista has been the most stable of all.

this doesn't prevent you from getting infected from an USB drive

Something that hasn't been possible for nearly a decade.

shared network

A network cannot execute code. XP and Vista with proper updates (say in the last 5 years) won't allow code to run without the users permission.

visiting a normal website which has been hacked, even if just for a few minutes. It's not that difficult.

The last time that happened was a Quicktime flaw. Other than that, IE7 and IE8, as well as Firefox and built-in protection will give the user about half a dozen warnings and attempts to stop malicious code from executing. The user has to actually run malicious code these days.

Because, I used Windows a lot and I had to use CCleaner, SpeedUpMyPC, Registry Booster + Registry Mechanic (manually checking registry entries to avoid any damage) and UltimateDefrag every 5 days or a week, too keep my system efficient.
You got some malfunctioning system. It can happen.

No, you just went extremely overboard there. All you need is ccleaner as it does all of that. cccleaner + defrag will keep your system running as good as new. I know this from experience. And it takes about the same amount of time as Onyx.

Oh and I don't have a malfunctioning Mac. Hardware problems affect all software and OSes. Windows has been rock solid on my Macs.

Arguably Apple's buggiest release after 10.0. It wasn't until 10.5.3 or thereabouts it could be considered stable.

Yeah no kidding. My favorite part about Leopard up until 10.5.3 was that Leopard would report having an IP address (router and external) but wouldn't let me browse the web or do anything requiring an internet connection until I turned Airpot on and off a few times.

Norton 360 $80.00

Don't need it, as long as you have common sense. Anyway, AVG is free.

Tune Up utilities $50.00

Ccleaner is free.

SpySweeper $25.00

Don't need it. AdAware is free anyway.

Diskeeper $30.00

Don't need it.

Nero $60.00

PCs from Dell, HP, etc. ship with CD/DVD burning software. Vista has built-in data DVD and video DVD burning utilities. XP had built-in CD burning before OS X.

Office 2007 $150.00

OpenOffice is free. Plus that $699 PC in this commercial ships with MS Works.

Battery Upgrade $125.00

6-cell battery in my $900 HP (same as the one in every 15.4" HP) lasts me about 3.5 hours.

What does Windsux have out-of-the=box? Internet explorer and minesweeper...
Plus, if windows didn't come with her laptop then she needs to go buy Winsux for another $400

Then, depending on what the hell she does with this laptop, she needs to go get Microsoft Office for ANOTHER $400. I sure as hell do not see her playing games on that computer and considering that Windows doesn't have a decent text editor out-of-the-box she is probably going to get it anyways.

If you had actually done your research on the computer she bought, you'd know that the computer she bought ships with full DVD and movie editing software, full CD/DVD burning tools, MS Works, and other software. THe only trialware it shipped with was a Norton trial and an Office trial. Oh and Windows ships with Notepad and Wordpad, same as OS X shipping with TextEdit

Couldn't have said it any better.
not to mention all the worthless trial software that comes preinstalled.

As I've said many times in this thread, the computer she bought shipped with only two pieces of trialware. Norton and Office. Everything else is full version and both will completely uninstall cleanly.

Two of my Macs also shipped with two pieces of trialware

No antivirus software needed
No antispyware/adware software needed

Hey that sounds like modern Windows

No maintenance/maintenance software needed
No maintenance of any other kind needed

Not true. Onyx should be a built-in app.

No slowdowns over time

Only if you don't run apps like Onyx.

Greater stability

False. I know this from experience.

Best in-class software (especially out of the box)
Best-in-Class design (of the hardware and the OS UI)

Subjective.

Better resale value

Only among Apple fans. Try selling a year old MBP for $1500 to an average person and they'll laugh in your face. Even at $1,000 they'll laugh at you.

Hardware/software integration that can't be beat

Obviously you've never used Windows.

Seamless integration between OS X and other Apple devices, all with equally beautiful and usable UIs.

Thats only because Apple doesn't offer hardware support for other devices.

All I can say is......

Conficker

All I can say is.....

oh sorry my Mac crashed while I was typing and now I have to repair disk permissions and hope my data and install aren't messed up.

 

[BVeritas]

Surprise, surprise

Guess people prefer a better experience.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/pc/565108/ref=pd_ts_pc_nav

 

[*LTD*]

superior?

tell me 1 mac that can outperform my $1700 inferior Gaming PC

Core2duo E8400 overclocked to 4.2GHz
4GB of patriot 1066MHz ram
dual 74GB WD Raptors in Raid 0
1x 500GB Seagate
Dual GTX280s in SLI 2GB of video ram
eVGA 750 SLI FTW (mobo with a TON of Overclocking options and expansion ports)
Bluray BD ROM
Lightscribe 22x DVDRW/RAM
Acer 21.5 1080p monitor

oh and that mac has to be from last year.

my gaming PC running vista 64bit has never crashed, i ran orthos (multithreaded prime95) for 2 days straight
memtest for 2 days straight
i have over 20 games installed and none of them have slowed down or crashed (games are more demanding since it requires all your HW to be fast)
and i can run Crysis at a reasonable 60FPS avg

No Mac user cares about your gaming PC that doesn't run OS X.

Macs don't need to outperform your GAMING PC. The only thing that leverages the hardware in your PC are games. Most Mac users don't play games on their PCs.

Most of us don't care about Crysis. Or framerates. Or fragging speed. I think quite a few of us have outgrown all that. We don't buy a Mac for the raw specs. You and people like you can't seem to get this through your heads.

 

[123]

tell me 1 mac that can outperform my $1700 inferior Gaming PC

Core2duo E8400 overclocked to 4.2GHz

Are you serious? Maybe you should give us your definition of "outperform" but I wouldn't bet a lot of money on your dual core if the benchmark is multithreaded.

my gaming PC running vista 64bit has never crashed, i ran orthos (multithreaded prime95) for 2 days straight

Maybe you meant 2 years, otherwise I don't know why you think anyone should be impressed.

 

[KnightWRX]

The hardware you get in those is superior to apples though. Their 17 inch has an rgb led backlit display. And the studio doesn't even run close to the price of the macbook pro. Also the graphics card the mac pro is so low end i don;t even think that the precisions offer it as an option.

The Lattitude is the MBP competitor, the Studio Hybrid is a competitor to the Mac Mini.

At least try to know what you're comparing before spouting nonsense.

 

[KnightWRX]

Something that hasn't been possible for nearly a decade.

Windows still defaults to having Autorun enabled for USB devices. Also, through careful manipulation of Autorun.inf, you can make the default action being execute malicious code instead of explore.

Most users won't right click -> Explore their USB drive.

 

[blackhand1001]

The Lattitude is the MBP competitor, the Studio Hybrid is a competitor to the Mac Mini.

At least try to know what you're comparing before spouting nonsense.

The dell studio 17 and 15 are the real competitors of the macbook pro. The latitudes are not a consumer laptop.

 

[mosx]

Windows still defaults to having Autorun enabled for USB devices. Also, through careful manipulation of Autorun.inf, you can make the default action being execute malicious code instead of explore.

Most users won't right click -> Explore their USB drive.

Well good job proving you don't use Windows Autorun is only for optical discs. And Vista asks you if you want to run the autorun program before running it. Essentially, Autorun is no longer autorun.

 

[mosx]

No Mac user cares about your gaming PC that doesn't run OS X.

Macs don't need to outperform your GAMING PC. The only thing that leverages the hardware in your PC are games. Most Mac users don't play games on their PCs.

Most of us don't care about Crysis. Or framerates. Or fragging speed. I think quite a few of us have outgrown all that. We don't buy a Mac for the raw specs. You and people like you can't seem to get this through your heads.

Outgrown? You know that the average gamer is an adult, right? And there are more gamers than Mac users. Look at the App store on iTunes. Look how many top sellers are games. People want their games.

The thing Mac users can't get through their heads is the fact that PCs can be EVERYTHING. Work machines, game machines, high definition movie players, etc. Macs can't be.

 

[kabunaru]

Macs can't be.

Macs are good for video production and photography at least in my honest opinion.

 

[Anuba]

The Lattitude is the MBP competitor, the Studio Hybrid is a competitor to the Mac Mini.

At least try to know what you're comparing before spouting nonsense.

He was obviously talking about the Studio notebooks. They're using "Studio" a lot now and it's getting a little confusing, admittedly. There's a Studio desktop series, a Studio notebook series, an XPS Studio desktop and the Studio Hybrid. What unites them (other than the Hybrid) is the glossy black exterior with silver details.

While Latitude and Precision (essentially the same) are Dell's professional lines, they're not directly comparable to the MBP machines. MBP is more like a MacBook deluxe now than a pro machine, it's got a glossy screen and so-so connectivity (3 USB ports is consumer territory). Precision is more industrial, CAD/CAM, Latitude is for office and executive types. The Studio is more Vaio-ish, Mac-ish, multimedia oriented.

 

[NT1440]

Outgrown? You know that the average gamer is an adult, right? And there are more gamers than Mac users. Look at the App store on iTunes. Look how many top sellers are games. People want their games.

The thing Mac users can't get through their heads is the fact that PCs can be EVERYTHING. Work machines, game machines, high definition movie players, etc. Macs can't be.

What does it matter to you? If I like a mac why does it bother you so much that I will buy one.

 

[yizzle0912]

If mac build quality is always so superior why have so many models suffered mechanical failures of hinges or of the clips that held the screens down. Apple isn't god. Apples build quality doesn't even come close to what lenovo thinkpad gives you.

As with anything, it depends on the model. In my experience the G3 iMacs, 12" PBs, PowerMacs in general, and some other models are bulletproof. However, some models like the TiBooks, Rev. A MBAir and nVidia MBPs, among others, have higher failure rates.

Recent laptop quality from Apple has been terrible compared to the past. When I buy a $1500+ machine, it's very fair to expect it to be 100% out of the box. But when issues are surfacing consistently on a top-of-the-line product, it's really frustrating.

HOWEVER, Apple notebooks are still more reliable than the competition. The PCWorld survey polls show that Apple still has a significant edge in reliability; and if you've ever compared PC tech support to Apple support, you'll find that Macs are easier to fix after they've failed. Apparently, 1/3 of laptop users reported significant problems with their computers. Read this:http://www.pcworld.com/article/156450/apple_laptops_extend_their_lead_in_reliability.html

 

[kabunaru]

How is iMovie "powerful" again?

All I can say is iMovie 6 is better/more powerful than iMovie '08.

 

[wiseoracle]

I am serious....

Yes, I am in IT and I own a various assortment of hardware: mac, pc, and Sun. I wrote my reply from the average user's perspective. Yes, I know that Norton bites however, the fact remains that they are still in business because laptop manufacturers bundle their software with the $699 PC. People generally take the path of least resistance and usually do exactly what the PC tells them because they know nothing about the alternatives. The average user is not as resourceful as the average IT guy/girl. This is why you see plenty of folks lining up a Geek Squad to pay serious money to perform simple maintenance tasks that we can do ourselves.

Ubuntu, Mandriva, etc are all good products and I do use linux for some of my development efforts however, the average user is not going to seek these distributions out and install them.


The new battery comment came from my own first hand experience with "budget" PCs. I purchased 5 one year ago for family members who insisted on getting the paper special. They quickly found that the batteries were the 4 or 6 cell variety(can't remember which) and that an extended battery would need to be purchased if they hoped to use the notebook more that 2 hours.

Again, my arguments have been about the hidden cost associated the average user will incur when buying the $699 pc. I am sure that there are some good ones out there but I have owned 4 compaqs (before HP) and 2 HP's of late and the quality of the material used for the body of the laptops has gone downhill. I have two older P3 based compaqs that are total tanks with regard to heft but they have had no body issues and work without incident. My two HP DV series have both had body/mechanical issues after one year of use and HP refused to correct the problem free of charge.

And Yes, I own a few macs as well but I can guarantee you that I have NEVER spent anything close to $3500 to purchase them.

LOL Norton? SERIOUSLY? i hope to God that you are not an IT guy.
Tune up utilities....... last time i checked CCleaner is free
spysweeper and Norton can both replaced by the best AV at this time, Antivir, guess what, its FREE (second place is ESET smart security, third is Bit defender and AVG)
Diskeeper Lite is free, Diskeeper is more for domain/network maintainence.
nero? cdburner xp is free, and most of the time nero basic comes with the comptuers for free.
office 2007, openoffice/staroffice is FREE
battery upgrade? WTF? it should last at least 2 years before dropping to 50% capacity


build quality poor? HP/Compaq laptops are made by both Quanta and Compal, Apple used to use Quanta to build macbookpros, but now they are using Hon Hai.

you also are forgetting that alot of people will DBAN the HDD and install ubuntu or linux mint (both of these OS's are DEAD easy to install with a live CD setup environment)

Ubuntu has more software built in on a 700MB disc than OSX and XP/Vista also ubuntu has a massive repository for free software

you remind me of that mactard at work that wanted to spend $3500+ just so he could

get a MBP, install XP to add to the domain (boot camp) then buy VMWARE ace workstation, and run OSX in that vmware workstation, then get another copy of iwork or whatever the apple equiv to office is just so he wouldnt have to email files back and forth between his MBA and Dell work laptop.