New PowerBooks on Tuesday.

[WM.]

Originally posted by Tom Golden
"All of the new models will run a Jaguar OS variant code-named Blackrider. Like Smeagol, the build train for the Power Mac G5, Blackrider is a special version of Mac OS X 10.2.7 with hardware support for the new models."-Thinksecret

If I am wrong correct me...but I thought that 10.2.7 was to enhance functionability for the g5, if the powerbooks don't have a g5 in them why bother putting a variant of 10.2.7?

Uh, the Smeagol variant of 10.2.7 was for the G5s. The Blackrider variant is for the new iMacs and PowerBooks (if they stay G4) and whatever else may come out before Panther ships pre-installed.

The Blackrider variant has since been renamed 10.2.8.

HTH
WM

 

[Loopy]

Hope things go well

Originally posted by psxndc
I'm glad this is happening early in the morning. Since my surgery is at 2:30 PM EST, if something goes wrong, at least I can die saying I finally saw the PB updates.

-p

PS It is minor surgery (abdominal hernia) so don't anyone go getting worried.

Can you please order a 15 and just in case something goes wrong can you send it to me for safe keeping.

 

[WM.]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
Actually, I believe if you read the developer's notes for the 12" PB, it will actually handle 4 gigs of RAM.

Well, I can't find it...the table listing the possible DIMM configurations is kind of hard to replicate and I think it's all screwed up anyway, but there is this footnote:

"1 GB is a theoretical max and is reserved for future expansion. 1 GB dual die package is not supported."

That's the only place it mentions DIMMs bigger than 512 MB or RAM capacity beyond 640 MB.

Of course, by the time a 4 gig chip is available for a reasonable price, odds are no one will be using the current 12" PB anymore.

Quite true.

WM

 

[jouster]

Originally posted by ilovemacs
First post on these boards, and i must say we got a good G4/G5 discussion going on here.

Here is everything that I'd like to see happen at the Expo on Tuesday @ 3am Eastern.

--------------------------------------------------
I currently own a 12"- Superdrive which I payed 1999 for 7 months ago.

This thing DOES get EXTREMELY Hot! There were red marks on my leg the other day from resting this on it.

so that brings me to #1:

An Updated 12" with significant cooling upgrades. A bit faster and a bit thinner would be nice as well. but leave them at the same price they are now 1599 and 1799.

Tough to get faster, thinner AND cooler all at once.

 

[tizza]

At last I can rest in peace! (hopefully)

 

[WM.]

Originally posted by adamfilip
one thing with G5's in a laptop.

the G5 processors in the New PowerMacs are desktop processors you cant just plug one into a laptop and expect it to work...

Define "desktop processor".

also the packaging of the g5 chip is too large to fit in a laptop

What packaging? It's just a hunk o' silicon on a ceramic (???) plate, just like any other chip...

and IBM would need to develop a paper thin packing setup just made to notebooks/laptops.

i havent heard of any reports stating that IBM is working on adapting the G5 to a thin packaging system..

so i dont expect g5 laptops for a while.

but IBM could have developed one and not disclosed the info until the new Powerbooks are out.

Seems to me like the main "thick" part of the G5 as implemented in the Power Macs is all the stuff between the heatsink and the actual processor die, and the cooling stuff for the power supply section of the module, etc. etc. etc. But my guess is that that's all Apple-designed, and in any case with a slower, cooler processor, maybe the design could be different. No one really knows at this point.

In case anyone cares, I give G5 PowerBooks between a 33% and 40% chance of showing up in Paris.

FWIW
WM

 

[jouster]

Originally posted by WM.

In case anyone cares, I give G5 PowerBooks between a 33% and 40% chance of showing up in Paris.

FWIW
WM

33%? wow, that's exact!!!

jk!,

Welcome to Macrumors!!

 

[aras]

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
After reviewing all the current G5 Benchmarks I wonder how much faster a 1.25 G5 would really be compared to a 1.25 G4.

I agree - on most applications I don't think it will make much difference. Therefore until G5's can be 1.6 or 2.0 Gighz in Powerbooks - there is no reason to go G5 except for possibly battery savings. Though it probably requires a whole new motherboard.

 

[Powerbook G5]

Well it will be nice to have a new PowerBook released. The other day I spent a few hours working on my laptop trying to reinstall/clean the system folder and all because for some unknown reason everything would quit on me for no apparent reason and cause me to have to restart. I've since got it working again, but my nearly 5 year old PowerBook is definitely showing its age and nodging me softly into the direction of a new PowerBook.

 

[WM.]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not too hot...

Originally posted by displaced
All G5s cost the same to produce, since there is only the one process used to create them.

(edit: although obviously there's a higher markup on the higher-rated products. But if there's a significant percentage of yield which is rated lower, being able to sell these on is also good)

It'd be interesting to track down some figures on the yields at different clock ratings. As I noted earlier, chip fabs do not produce processors at X or Y GHz. You churn the chips out, test, and sell them at whatever speed they work at.

The only difference between a 1.2 GHz and a 2.0 GHz G5 is the quality and tolerance of the final product.

It all depends on how predictable the fab plant's output is. AFAIK, Apple are the only company building 970-based systems. If IBM have a certain amount of cores unable to reach 1.6 GHz, but run fine at 1.2, they may be an option.

I think IBM has announced that they're going to make some Linux blades with the 970, but AFAIK they haven't materialized.

Otherwise, I totally agree with both your posts, and just to make it real simple and easy for everybody else, here's how they make chips:

1) Make chip. All of them are created equal, as much as possible.
2) Test chip. Determine maximum stable clock speed for given temperature. (See Sonnet scandal of a few months ago. Fortunately that seems to have blown over, since they were doing nothing wrong or deceptive whatsoever.)
3) Stamp chip with appropriate clock speed and temperature--which may be based on what a customer wants. Again, see Sonnet scandal for more on this.

WM

 

[SiliconAddict]

Will everyone shut up after Tues?

This is getting really, REALLY pathetic. Look. If apple couldn't ship a G5 PowerBook back when kids were going back to school they aren't shipping it NOW! This is moto's fault. Period. End of story. Enough already.
I'm going to be the first person to post that everyone shut up about G5's when the expo announces that everything is still G4. There won’t be any special edition. There won’t be any sneak surprise release. You are going to get speed bumps in the line, with some extra tweaking on the 15” line, and that is it. It ain't going to happen people.
1st quarter 2004 will most likely bring about the announced of the G5 PowerBooks and ship 2nd quarter.

Moto screwed Apple’s plans. No mystery here. Move on Columbo.

 

[WM.]

Originally posted by jouster
33%? wow, that's exact!!!

Well, my initial guesstimate was 40% (which I posted earlier in another thread), because it's nice and round and I don't think there's a 50% chance of G5 PBs. Then I decided that was too high, so I figured 1/3 (33%) was the next nice, round number down.

I totally see both sides of the argument here, and as I posted in that other thread we're buying a 15" regardless. A G5 will just be that much better, but only if MS can get off their ass and get VPC working on it--I'd like to have some PC apps running on the PB by the start of next summer. But I digress.

jk!,

Welcome to Macrumors!!

Thanks! I'm actually approaching five months of posting here, I think, but I tend to mostly post about news items...unless I'm bored, in which case I venture into the rest of the forums. This is probably the most I've posted in one thread except for that quasi-flamewar a few weeks ago...in both threads I've just been trying to clear up mis/disinformation...there can be a lot of it sometimes...

WM

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Re: easy reason

Originally posted by eric67
they have to design a brand new mother board, if they do so, they want the latest technology (and even the future ones) to be included. in addition to desgin new chipset for the G5
I will be very (positively) suprised if Apple can intro a G5 laptop less than 3-4 month after announcing a G5 desktop....

What makes you think they haven't already been working on that new motherboard? Apple has more than one design team.

Originally posted by mxpiazza
ok buddy, before you run around throwing stuff around like you're better that someone else, i said they were too hot AT THESE PRODUCTION PROCESSES AND SPEEDS (1.6-2.0). I said nothing about lower clock speeds, and I am writing on the assumption that 1.6-2.0 are the only g5 processors that are being mass produced. so settle down.

That's a bad assumption

Originally posted by Vlade
They would put the G5 in the high end 17" ones WAY before the cheaper 15" ones, at least thats what I would do.

The 17 inch isn't supposed to be more high end, it's just supposed to have a bigger screen. The PowerBook line in general is supposed to be high-end. The iBook is supposed to be cheaper. There isn't a high and low end that correlates with screen size.

Originally posted by jouster
It does, but there is some doubt as to whether IBM can currently produce enought to use in PMs as well as PBs.

What the hell are you talking about? They have Fishkill!

Originally posted by utilizer
MWNY 2002 - BY FAR -- The worst of the worst expos EVER: iDVD released.

MWNY 2002 was the worst expo ever? Does no one remember Amelio's debacle at MWSF 1996?

To add one:

MW Boston 1997: The deal with Microsoft. Steve's first keynote.

 

[BlueDjinn]

My Blind Guesswork...

Everyone else is chiming in, so here's my predictions:

Current 12" PB Combo: Price Drop Only ($1,599 -> $1,499)

Current 12" PB SuperDrive: Price Drop Only ($1,799 -> $1,699)

New 15.4" PB SuperDrive: $1,999
1.0 GHz G4 AlBook (side ports)
Backlighting, FW800, AirportExtreme (card included), Bluetooth (card included)
256 MB DDR-PC2700

New 17" PB ComboDrive: $2,499
1.0 GHz G4
FW800, AirportExtreme (card included), Bluetooth (card included)
256 MB DDR-PC2700

New 17" PB SuperDrive: $2,999
1.33 GHz G4
FW800, AirportExtreme (card included), Bluetooth (card included)
512 MB DDR-PC2700

(basically, instead of 15" Combo/15" Super/17" Super, they'd go to 15" Super/17" Combo/17" Super)

 

[utilizer]

I'll go out on a limb here...

...and say the 17 in. gets dual 1.25 G4s and is convertible, i.e., converts to a tablet pc to a laptop and vice versa.
That's the bombshell. At least duals will be enough but hey, if it's G5s, bring 'em on! I really don't believe that though.
Realistically speaking, dual 1.25 G4s and that's that. Oh, and to those that say it's inefficient to run duals on battery power, I agree.
That's why the new PowerBooks will have a feature similar to the new G5s where you have a variant of the slewing component, meaning as soon as you unplug your PowerBook, one processor is disabled, therefore more battery life. When you plug it back in, boom: You've got your duals back! Now, that'll be neat!

 

[DakotaGuy]

Originally posted by yujini
There's no way for steve jobs to say "now let's look at the new powerbooks!!! AND IT USES A G4!!!"
why would he want to do that at the expo?
Has he ever announced a hardware that used an older generation chip (except when it's a new line of hardware)? I'd say that's the reason why they didn't announce the new iMacs at the expo (since it's using a G4).

I don't agree with this because a lot less has been introduced on stage by Steve Jobs. If it is a G4 "7557" there are quite a few improvements, higher clock speed, 512 on-chip L2 cache, higher L3 cache, and some rumors of a 200Mhz bus. Other things like a new enclosure for the 15", USB 2, FW 800, etc. This would be a Powerbook that Steve would want to show off. Heck if it has a G4 I could see them doing what they did to the Powerbook G3 on the last revision before the Powerbook G4. I don't know if anyone remembers, but they dropped the G3 from the name and it was just called a Powerbook for awhile.

 

[mvc]

Re: Will everyone shut up after Tues?

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
This is getting really, REALLY pathetic.

What is MOST interesting about this whole G5/G4 debate is the different emotional tenet of the two sides.

The positives are truly positive, and the negatives are REALLY negative in both their outlook and language.

Its like they have some vested emotional interest in the status quo, or maybe vested financial interest in Motorola.

Why DO the negatives feel it is necessary to attempt to crush genuine debate with sweeping scornful remarks rather than factual discussion? Is it because they are really hurting inside?

They say cynics are just dissappointed idealists.

As for G5 powerbooks, anything IS possible; the technical heat/power consumption challenges are NOT insurmountable according to the numbers quoted on this board, Steve usually only shows up to speak for the bigger upgrades, and the long revision delay is difficult to explain as simply a Motorola supply problem.

Apple has both suprised and dissappointed us all before, so we will just have to wait and see which way it falls.

 

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by BlueDjinn
Everyone else is chiming in, so here's my predictions:

Current 12" PB Combo: Price Drop Only ($1,599 -> $1,499)

Current 12" PB SuperDrive: Price Drop Only ($1,799 -> $1,699)

New 15.4" PB SuperDrive: $1,999
1.0 GHz G4 AlBook (side ports)
Backlighting, FW800, AirportExtreme (card included), Bluetooth (card included)
256 MB DDR-PC2700

It's nice to see some folks speculating specs. Just a few comments.

• It seems unlikely that Apple would drop the price of the 12" AlBook again, unless it was a last-ditch effort to clear out existing stock.
• Current rumors suggest a 15.2" screen, not the previously rumored 15.4" one.

 

[Hawthorne]

Re: I'll go out on a limb here...

Originally posted by utilizer
...and say the 17 in. gets dual 1.25 G4s and is convertible, i.e., converts to a tablet pc to a laptop and vice versa.
That's the bombshell.

That's not a limb, that's a twig.

Doubtful. It'd be cool, the pieces are there with Inkwell and the like, but doubtful.

 

[jouster]

Phil: I made the assumption that IBM was initiall slow in producing 970s because, well, SOMETHING held up the PM G5s at first.

ALso, there was a lot of talk about a month ago about Fishkill having initial problems ramping up.

I certainly don't expect that to remain the case, once the initial rush for G5s has levelled out.

 

[Rocketman]

Re: Availability?

Originally posted by crees!
Hey Arn,

Any word on the availability? Whether it would be immediate, 1-2 weeks, or longer?

Pardon me. Isn't it Arn's job to lurk silently? Why call god from his high horse when he already chummed the waters for you?

Merely Rocketman

 

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
If apple couldn't ship a G5 PowerBook back when kids were going back to school they aren't shipping it NOW!

The Powerbook - and the G5 for that matter - are most definitely not targeted towards the "Back to School" market. That's hardly a reason why Apple wouldn't release a G5 Powerbook.

A Powerbook G5 is possible, but a G4 is more likely.

This is moto's fault. Period. End of story. Enough already.

Well, sure. Just about everything is Motorola's fault. But that doesn't support arguments for or against a G5 Powerbook.

This is getting really, REALLY pathetic.

You know what's really, really pathetic? People who start a post by saying "This is getting really, REALLY pathetic." Let's keep the conversation friendly.

 

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by jouster

Apple has a choice. It can

(a) Build them soon, using lower specced 970s (say @ 1.2 Ghz) which dissipate as little heat as a MOT G4 or,

(b) Wait for the process shrink and release faster 970s @ 90 nM.

The decision will be made for financial reasons rather than technical ones,

I would speculate. I believe they will wait for option (b)

I would kind of disagree. I feel they will try to have a single motherboard design with legs. One which is updated every 2 months till they feel a release is practical. Who knows how many versions of a PB G5 motherboard there have been. Perhaps tens.

I think they have a motherboard "class" designed for the 90um process G5 (at the lowest end of processor speeds to be released) targeted for the PB G5's. What will be interesting with this is if they come out with a dual G5 Powerbook, which seems likely and practical.

Rocketman

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by jouster
Phil: I made the assumption that IBM was initiall slow in producing 970s because, well, SOMETHING held up the PM G5s at first.

ALso, there was a lot of talk about a month ago about Fishkill having initial problems ramping up.

I certainly don't expect that to remain the case, once the initial rush for G5s has levelled out.

Maybe. But Fishkill has had plenty of time to run at full capacity. And I think that G5 production (in terms of the full system) was the bottleneck, not 970 production.

 

[tizza]

Re: Will everyone shut up after Tues?

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
This is getting really, REALLY pathetic. Look. If apple couldn't ship a G5 PowerBook back when kids were going back to school they aren't shipping it NOW! This is moto's fault. Period. End of story. Enough already.
I'm going to be the first person to post that everyone shut up about G5's when the expo announces that everything is still G4. There won’t be any special edition. There won’t be any sneak surprise release. You are going to get speed bumps in the line, with some extra tweaking on the 15” line, and that is it. It ain't going to happen people.
1st quarter 2004 will most likely bring about the announced of the G5 PowerBooks and ship 2nd quarter.

Moto screwed Apple’s plans. No mystery here. Move on Columbo.

I think it's really sad when posts like this are made. One of the reasons I joined mac rumors was to bounce ideas around about things that AREN'T fully known. At the end of the day none of us really know what's happening. If someone just wants the facts and can't handle speculation I would suggest they stick to www.apple.com.