New PowerMac 1.8GHz Released

[nagromme]

Over a year ago apple released a single 1.8ghz G5/900mhz bus/160GB HD/5200Ultra/etc/etc... and it cost 2k edu

NOW, in the present, apple releases a single 1.8ghz G5/600mhz bus/80GB HD/5200Ultra/etc/etc... and now it costs $500 less.

Is it just me? or is there something wrong with this picture? Ah, i just figured it out... THEY'RE MOVING BACKWARDS!

No, backwards would be offering less for the same price. You may wish prices had dropped even more than they have--you may wish things had moved forward faster--but this is not backwards.

Back then, the low-end was a G4 tower and the middle was a single 1.8. Now the low-end is a single G5 with SLIGHTLY lower specs than the old middle, for $500 cheaper.

That's moving forward, even if not in the way that meets your particular goals.

 

[Eaon]

What's with the Edu thing?

Time and again in this thread people are quoting the educational price for this machine. I'm just curious, is there anyone here that ISN'T a student just talking about buying this machine even though, as a student, they clearly don't have any money left after tuition to actually make a computer purchase? Is there anyone here who works in the real world, actually makes money, might actually have the cash in their bank account at this moment to buy this thing? Has anyone stopped to ask THAT kind of person if they'd buy one? I am that kind of person, and I would buy this computer. I've got a 21" CRT that I'm quite fond of. I've got a 12" PowerBook, which got me into the Mac world. And I think this would be a great addition to my computer room. Something I could use to do a little more intense gaming than on the PB (my "intense" gaming is around the level of Zoo Tycoon and SimCity), something my wife could use (I hog the laptop, it's mine, all mine). Ya, it's a lot like the iMac, not as spiffy looking, no screen, but appeals to my geek need to be able to open the box every once in a while and toss something new in (ram, video, hard drive, whatever), while still not getting too far past the "anger the wife" price range.

It's nice to hear all the students talk about this machine and much cheaper they could get it if only student loans were given to cover the latest Apple hardware, but those of us who can actually afford one will buy one. Oh, and most people who buy Macs don't care nearly as much about the FSB than you all do, so again, I think it has a chance.

 

[iMeowbot]

for the person who contended that the lower FSB was necessary due to lower quality chips, well that doesn't make sense. the higher the ratio between processor and motherboard, the more stability problems you may run into. I am inferring this from the eMac 800MHz - 1.4GHz thread on these forums. the rest of the PM line, with the 2:1 ratio, is by comparison way more stable.

That would be working from the very broad assumption that the G4 and G5, with entirely different CPUs, would display identical characteristics, and that the weak spot involved frequency multiplication.

A much simpler explanation is that some interface logic simply does not work at higher frequencies. Speculation on a higher speed being more stable would be irrelevant if the higher speed doesn't work at all.

 

[Macmaniac]

People need to stop automatically adding an Apple FP to the price, you can get a great LCD($600) or CRT($200), so this machine is easily under $2000, people have been looking for a low cost expandable Mac, the common person does not even know what the FSB is. All they care is that they can add HDs, RAM, and video cards.
You can get extra RAM for under $200, and another HD for under $100, this gives you a great system thats good for gaming, or video editing.
Yes gaming is a niche market, but a low cost video system is viable from this system as well.

 

[nagromme]

People need to stop automatically adding an Apple FP to the price

Especially if you already OWN a display.

 

[aswitcher]

Finally Apple, us Aussies have a better deal than some other countries... The new SP G5 is AU$5,000 less than the top spec iMac, and i have believed the iMac to be underpriced. For an expandable and fast computer, this almost fills a niche for Apple, and I may buy one, but i will have to BTO it, as there is a crappy graphics card, and a 3rd party ram specialist will be visited too.

A decent computer for the price, and way less than the top spec iMac, which is a plus in itself.

$5000 AUD less....?

No...top end iMac is under $4K AUD and this thing is only like $1300 AUD less at $2700 AUD.

$1300 cheaper gets you an ok machine (with room for future expansion) but with no 20" LCD ($2299 AUD), smaller HDD, no WiFi or BT...which when added on (and Apple care) are all going to add up...

 

[Blue Velvet]

I don't get it...

Why all the passion and fury?

If you don't want/need to buy it, then don't.

It's a marketplace -- if it doesn't sell then it will be withdrawn.
If you're so clued up about Macs, then you won't want it, will you?

When you add up all the things that are missing...
It does seem aimed at the educational market, however.

But... I can think of one friend of mine that will be tempted...

 

[nek]

Als added new GeForce 6800 too?

No more 9600XT (still there as a BTO though...)?

With the 6800 GT coming in November and the X800 coming in the near future, I would expect Apple to drop both the GeForce 5200 and the Radeon 9600 from the Powermacs. That would leave the Radeon 9800 as the base graphics card, with the 6800 GT, 6800 Ultra, and X800 as options.

 

[The Red Wolf]

Optical Audio

...Doesn't it suck that in order to use an Apple with a better video card, you're essentially paying the cost of the card + $300 or so?...

Optical audio is not available on the iMac. Gigabit Ethernet is not available on the iMac. Firewire 800 is not available on the iMac. 4 GB of RAM. PCI slots. Space for more than one drive. Sorry, the PowerMac doesn't come with the option of wall mounting the whole machine like the iMac. But seriously, think about what you're saying when all you care about is the GPU...

If I feel like it, I can slam a ATI 9800 Mac Special Edition Pro 256MB VRAM Board into my Cube. Who says it can't be done to the iMac with a little engineering and some luck. But upgrading to one of the newer machines would be a bit more price worthy. However perfection of the Cube is absolute. Resistance is futile. Or so I hear.

 

[rcs128]

A good value

There are so many Mac users that every configuration has a potential market. Think about the thousands of ad agencies out there... this new single processor mac would be a great buy for graphic artists who use quark/indesign, some occasional photoshop, illustrator, web apps, etc. It'd be much easier to convince the boss to buy one of these than to drop $3000 for a 2.5DP, and they'd still have tons of processing power over an old G3/G4. Plus there's the easy expandibility, they can use exisiting displays, etc... this new Mac should sell just fine.

 

[Garissimo]

how silent will this thing be?

this SHOULD be a silent machine: 970FX 1.8 Ghz, the "lite" memory controller found in the iMac G5 (also using 90nm technology) a lots of space to dissipate heat...

Won't it still come with the full complement of fans found in the other PowerMac towers?

Can anyone with a single 1.6 G5 (last year's model) comment on noise?

 

[Converted2Truth]

I've read in a number of threads (including this one) that the G5 is 'upgradable'. Indeed it is. But can the CPU/FSB be upgraded?

For the FSB, i think we'd need a hack (bust out the soldering tools)

but i emailed sonnet (along with some ther CPU upgrade companies) and sonnet wrote me back! Here's what the dude said:

Well, you'd be the first person requesting such an upgrade that's for sure. For most G5 owners, they haven't tapped the potential of them yet. But I know our engineers have looked into possible G5 upgrades. The drawback at this point is that the fastest G5 upgrades require the fastest G5 chips and Apple is getting them all. They tend to lock up the production runs on the newest G5 chips for about six months.

The only thing we know is that a single processor G5 can't be converted to a dual processor G5 machine. The only thing that will be available will be a faster single processor upgrade.

Not sure when such upgrades will come out. This is very future stuff. Right now there is literally no demand for such an upgrade.

So we do know a little from this. Mainly, a single cannot be upgraded to a dual. And probably vice versa. Anyway, for what it's worth...

 

[HelloKitty]

I wonder if this means we're not gonna see any updates until June next year.. Hope we'll hear from Apple in between..

For my personal opinion, I think this is what Apple should come up with today:

2.5 GHz Dual G5 PowerMac
2.2 GHz Dual G5 PowerMac
2.0 GHz Dual G5 PowerMac (I'll buy one right away)
2.0 GHz Single G5 PowerMac (USD $1499, 800MHz FSB..etc..)

But I guess this isn't happening..

 

[Ups85]

First of all I don't buy the "apple is moving backward arguement". Apple saw a hole in their lineup, and is just adding in a "low cost" machine to fill that gap. If they had kept the single 1.8Ghz on the market, no one would be complaining they were moving forward (yes they lowered the fsb, don't know what that was about)

I also don't see why this is a good value. Sure, I understand the compatability aspect. But why is it the same price as the iMac? I'm sure apple priced the iMac to maximize the profit margin. Can you imagine the profit margin for this machine? They make whatever they would make on an iMac plus the extra money for no screen! And, they are using an old form factor, so there's no extra money to create a new case. I think this is ridiculous. It certainly makes me wonder how overpriced my powerbook was. This can't help their image.

 

[Dr. No]

Does this new single 1.8 GHz use dual-channel RAM?

 

[angerson]

Honestly I don't think this is that bad of a deal. I run a small web design business and I've been using an upgraded G4 Cube 1 Ghz with a 32MB GPU for quite some time as my main work machine. It'd be kind to say that this little trooper is on its last leg, I mean it requires 3 fans just to stay on. The trouble is I have *maybe* $1300 to allocate to a new system so I keep using the cube until a viable option presents itself.

Prior to this G5 Tower 'lite' my options were:

1. The new G5 iMac. Truly a great machine for the price. Biggest problem? I prefer dual displays and the thought of a non-upgradeable video card scares me. Plus I don't like all-in-ones and I have a perfectly serviceable brand new Sony 17" LCD display.

2. A PC. Right now I can grab a brand new Dell Dimension 3000 P4 2.80Ghz, 265MB, 40GB, CD-RW Drive, 17" LCD for $529 with Free Shipping. That's tempting especially since as a web designer working on a PC does make sense. And again the thought of buying a machine at less than half of my budget is quite nice. The problem is all of my apps are Mac (obviously) and, man, I really hate Windows.

If you add this new pro Mac into the mix you can see how it becomes a viable option to someone like me. I get to keep my software investment plus I can utilize some of the hardware I have now (17" Sony LCD, etc.), I don't have to forgo the expandability and I don't have to invest more than $1500. Not a bad deal.

 

[Santaduck]

yeah, and pci slots, audio in, optical audio out (that's not on the imac right?) fw 800, gigabit ethernet, front ports...i'd still buy the imac for my $1500

actually you do indeed get the line in *and* optical audio out in the imac g5 in a neat dual-use port... think the iLife strategy, and it makes sense.

the price point for that fsb is definitely an odd choice. . .

 

[mrwheet]

I'm guessing that this is loosely heat-related. Basically, yields are low on 2.0 GHz+ processors, meaning more and more 1.8s. So, they're trying to find a nice way to unload all those 1.8s that they'd hoped would pass at 2.0...(???) maybe?

 

[Converted2Truth]

I'm guessing that this is loosely heat-related. Basically, yields are low on 2.0 GHz+ processors, meaning more and more 1.8s. So, they're trying to find a nice way to unload all those 1.8s that they'd hoped would pass at 2.0...(???) maybe?

what's that got to do with the FSB chop? that's what everyone is pissed about.

 

[Converted2Truth]

Apple needs only two powermac line-ups:

Single CPU line-up: $1k - 2.5k stock
-choose CPU, GPU, RAM, ETC

Dual CPU line-up: $1.5k - 3k stock
-choose CPU, GPU, RAM, ETC

Give all the options. let someone have a dual 1.6 if they want. Now that would please everyone. no doubt.

 

[MacinDoc]

Apple Canada Rip-Off

This is currently the worst rip-off by Apple Canada. At the current exchange rate, this machine should be priced at $1899 or less, but it's $2099 CDN! Even the 17" 1.8 GHz iMac (still a rip-off, in terms of exchange rate), which has the same U.S. price as the new Power Mac, only costs $1999 CDN! Or, for $2099 Canadian, you can buy a 12" Porwebook! What makes Apple Canada think it's entitled to an extra $200?

I know this isn't the first exchange rate beef, but I'm amazed that Apple Canada doesn't even rip us off for the same amount on products that have the same U.S. price!

 

[dejo]

This is currently the worst rip-off by Apple Canada. At the current exchange rate, this machine should be priced at $1899 or less, but it's $2099 CDN! Even the 17" 1.8 GHz iMac (still a rip-off, in terms of exchange rate), which has the same U.S. price as the new Power Mac, only costs $1999 CDN! Or, for $2099 Canadian, you can buy a 12" Porwebook! What makes Apple Canada think it's entitled to an extra $200?

I know this isn't the first exchange rate beef, but I'm amazed that Apple Canada doesn't even rip us off for the same amount on products that have the same U.S. price!

If Apple Canada used the current exchange rate (which, even that, varies depending on WHO you go to), they would have to change their prices daily, at least. Perhaps there is more to the equation than a simple currency conversion.

 

[mrwheet]

Converted2Truth,

Too true... but why should anyone be suprised that Apple did something really f***ed up with the "bottom of the line" model. They've been doing that for years! I mean, why did they go out of their way to put the current dual 1.8 on the old 1.6 single mobo?

I was only talking about why there might be another 1.8 *anything*.

People can be pissed if they want. I just found a great deal on a previous generation dual 1.8 -- full RAM/bus/bandwidth, 160 GB HD, 512 MB RAM, all "standard". I'm happy!

 

[~Shard~]

This is currently the worst rip-off by Apple Canada. At the current exchange rate, this machine should be priced at $1899 or less, but it's $2099 CDN! Even the 17" 1.8 GHz iMac (still a rip-off, in terms of exchange rate), which has the same U.S. price as the new Power Mac, only costs $1999 CDN! Or, for $2099 Canadian, you can buy a 12" Porwebook! What makes Apple Canada think it's entitled to an extra $200?

I know this isn't the first exchange rate beef, but I'm amazed that Apple Canada doesn't even rip us off for the same amount on products that have the same U.S. price!

First of all, there are more factors at play here than just the exchange rate, secondly, Apple Canada can't be expected to adjust its prices daily based on the continually-fluctuating dollar strength, and lastly, if it's a better deal to buy direct from USA Apple, then do it and bypass Canada - whatever gets you the best deal, I say! That's what I did when I bought my iPod at the SoHo store in NY in April - saved well over $100 CAD by doing that....

 

[dejo]

That's what I did when I bought my iPod at the SoHo store in NY in April - saved well over $100 CAD by doing that....

Did you have to pay any extra at the border or did they have no idea?

P.S. I doubt you could order from Apple USA and have it shipped to Canada.