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New PowerMacs Released

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon


i seriously doubt your 1200$ pc was similiarly speced. that is my point. sounds lie you had a barebones system. thats why it is cheap. spec out a new pc right now, matching each and every component. you will find the powermacs are well priced. people have done this on these boards time and time again and found that the pc is not cheaper. sure you can build a stripped down pc, and claim it is cheaper but thats not really fair now is it? you would have to compare that to a stripped mac then.
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*sigh* I was hoping to stay out of this, but I just had to join in here.


Date: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 10:58:11 AM CDT
Catalog Number: 29 19

Category Description Product Code SKU
Dell Dimension 8200 Series: Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.53GHz with 533MHz system bus/ 512K L2 Cache D825W [221-0191]
Memory: SAVE $80! (savings included in price) 512MB PC800 RDRAM 512M82P [461-5718]
Keyboard: Dell® Quietkey® Keyboard QK [310-1582]
Monitors: No Monitor N [320-3000]
Video Card: New 64MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce4™ Ti 4200 Graphics Card with TV Out and DVI 64T4200 [320-0491]
Hard Drive: Save $60! (Savings included in price) 120GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive 120P [461-3813]
Floppy Drive: 3.5 in Floppy Drive 3 [340-1927]
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition WHXP [313-7222] [412-0189] [420-3079]
Mouse: MS IntelliMouse® IM [310-2757]
Network Card: 10/100 PCI Fast Ethernet NIC CNET [430-5353]
Modem: 56K PCI Telephony Modem 56KWSXP [313-1583]
CD or DVD Drive: Save $50! DVD+RW/+R Drive with CDRW (includes 1 DVD+RW disc) DVDRWP [313-1203] [430-0310] [430-0365] [461-3858]
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Live! Digital Sound Card SB1024 [313-1488]
Speakers: Harman Kardon HK-395 Speakers with Subwoofer HK395 [313-7284]
Bundled Software: Microsoft® Works Suite 2002 w/Money Standard WORKS [412-0133]
Virus Protection: Norton AntiVirus™ 2002, 90-day introductory offer NAV2002 [412-0259]
Digital Music: Dell Jukebox powered by MusicMatch MMBASE [412-0246]
Digital Photography: Dell Picture Studio, Image Expert Standard DPS [412-0271] [412-0273]
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options: 3 Year Limited Warranty plus 3 Year At-Home Service S3OS [950-1272] [950-3339] [950-4270]
Internet Access Service: 6 Months of America Online Membership Included AOLDHS [412-0258] [412-0279] [412-0287]
Recommended Media: Free Verbatim DVD+RW Media,1 Disc 1RWDISK [313-1203]
Protect Your System: Belkin Surgemaster Gold Power BELGOLD [A0004763]

-----------------------------
$1996 vs. Apple's $3299
 
i seriously doubt your 1200$ pc was similiarly speced. that is my point. sounds lie you had a barebones system.

Yes it was similarly speced, except for Superdrive which they obviously don't offer. By similarly speced, I'm counting on the AMD 2200 by be similar in performance to today's dual 1 gig.

As far as stripped down, I could buy one of those for $500 with monitor.
 
Re: Re: I ain't switching yet

Originally posted by bretm


I thought the proof was in the "pudding." Have I just been eating way too much desert? Or is it dessert?
Click to expand...


I think the saying actually goes "The proof of the pudding is in the eating". As in, you can't tell how good something is by looking at it, or reading about it, but only by using it.

In the case of new PowerMacs, you can compare specs and read that Apple think its 90% faster than a P4, but really THE PROOF OF THE PUDDING IS IN THE EATING. i.e. when you use it, you'll know whether its any good, and not before!



Cheers,
Dobbin
 
AmbitiousLemon:

"ok, so this one is the best. all you spec morons read closely."

As in SPEC, the industry-standard benchmark where G4's get their asses kicked by P3's, P4's, Athlon's, Sparc's, Power4's, Itaniums, and a few more? :) Anyway, all you did was quote Apple marketing speak... that means exactly nothing. (Zero.)

General Commentary for Everyone:

The 166mhz FSB with 1.3gb/s bandwith is obviously NOT DDR, or else it would have a higher bandwidth to match the DDR 333 and not only that, but Apple would call it a 333mhz FSB just like Intel and AMD do. However 166mhz is 25% faster than 133mhz and this is a good thing.

I am also suspicious of just how fast the L3 caches are running... they may have "adjusted" the multiplyer on those. I haven't really seen anywhere where they say up front what the clock speed and bandwith is for the L3's on each model.

Anyway, things have come to pass much as I have been predicting for weeks, perhaps months. I did my part to keep the hype under control... but some people just never listen.
 
And Just imagine how cheap that same PC will be when the new 1.25 actually ships. Knock another $200 off the price or add about 200 Mhz!
 
Did anyone else notice that the monitor rebate is still going on with a purchase of a new tower?

When does that finish?
 
very disappointing. these are not only ugly but i'm guessing will be unreliable as well. besides looking slapped together i don't feel safe knowing they felt the need to put in a giant heat sink and a million vents and holes. i think these are tweaked/overclocked beyond the safety range and will turn out to be be pieces of crapola. just my opinion.
 
Can anyone answer my question though :

Which is better for overall performance, a larger L3 cache or a faster system bus?
 
Originally posted by topicolo
Just to nitpick a little:
Click to expand...

Yea, for some reason I was giving AGP more credit and thinking it was a 64 bit bus, not 32. And yes, the new Nvidia and ATI cards are getting close to saturating the bus, but I was thinking more towards video editing/ 2d graphics than games.

I was also unsure if the sound functions were inplemented in the system controller or on the PCI bus, which is why I kept them seperate. But yes, if they're part of the PCI bus then they take away from that.



As for your little quoting of the Apple specs- maybe you should go read a good CprE book on processor design instead of just quoting Apple. Apple is not the be all end all source on computing architecture- they just want you to buy their products.

A processor with a shorter pipeline is more efficient, however, a processor with a longer pipeline scales to higher speeds. So, it becomes a math equation- efficiency over clock speed. Additionally, the effiency only comes into play when a processor miscalculates a branch and has to abort the pipeline. So, while the P4 may have a longer pipeline, it has a faster clock to make up for aborted pipeline efficiency, and it also has a very good BPU.

If you want to be an educated consumer, Apple's (Or Intel's or Amd's or VIA's or Transmeta's) website is not the place to learn from. Take a class, read a book, but don't copy and paste something from the seller's website and take it as 100% truth.
 
Not directed at me?

Work is using Beige G3, doesn't mean i'm "holding onto one", though i admit i can always use a little education. Maybe i was being a little oversensitive.
:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by tjwett
very disappointing. these are not only ugly but i'm guessing will be unreliable as well. besides looking slapped together i don't feel safe knowing they felt the need to put in a giant heat sink and a million vents and holes. i think these are tweaked/overclocked beyond the safety range and will turn out to be be pieces of crapola. just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I agree, I think this is a desperate attempt to satisfy the masses. I want to switch over from PC but there is still to much of a gap. I got Protools running great on XP, I just wanted to switch for better 3rd party software reasons...but I think I will wait...


regards,
spooky
 
does the xserve also have an ata/66 controller? the new powermacs have 1 ata/100 controllin 2 drives and a ata/66 controlling the other two. WTF is 133? is apple really confident that mac fans are so fanatical about apple's computers that they're not going to pay attention to some of the inner specs. also, the 1.25 with ddr only offers ~3.5gigaflops more than the dual 1 without ddr. I guess you can say this is an improvement. It just makes me happier I got my 933 back in april although i was very pissed to see the 800 tibook came out the next week with l3 (could easily compete with my 933 and its portable :eek: )
 
tjwett:

What's with all this "overclocked" sillyness? (Making an effort to stay positive.) Don't you realize that a large heatsink with large slow fan is also a very very quiet way to cool processors? The Quicksilvers are louder than most OEM PC's I've seen, for crying out loud. It's great to see Apple's new cooling system. Stop whining, yes we only have a 25% increase, but that doesn't suddenly mean that it's a 25% overclock!

I mean, what would you have said about the 1.4ghz or 1.6ghz rumored chips? Oh no, no that's not an overclock, only 1.25ghz chips are overclocked!

And what the hell is an overclock anyway? If Moto or Intel or AMD sells a chip at "x" ghz that's it's speed. It is not "over" clocked until it is made to run faster than the seller said it should.
 
Originally posted by ddtlm
AmbitiousLemon:

"ok, so this one is the best. all you spec morons read closely."

As in SPEC, the industry-standard benchmark where G4's get their asses kicked by P3's, P4's, Athlon's, Sparc's, Power4's, Itaniums, and a few more? :) Anyway, all you did was quote Apple marketing speak... that means exactly nothing. (Zero.)
Click to expand...

Yeah, the G4 gets it's butt spanked all around town. Apple doesn't even submit systems to SPEC because they can't keep up. It's what we get for using a chip that's better suited for embedded than desktop. Wonder if my Cisco router could run OS X. *snicker*

And to that Apple marketing crap someone posted about not using speculative execution...speculative execution at both the instruction and thread level is going to be a hallmark of "next-generation" processors and MCMs (multi-chip modules). And if IA-64 pans out to be a winner we'll probably see some predication too. Apple just bashes it because they're not there yet. Once they are, I'll betcha Apple PR will spin it a different way.
 
Originally posted by hitman
Can anyone answer my question though :

Which is better for overall performance, a larger L3 cache or a faster system bus?
Click to expand...

Come on people, someone has to know....

I'm pricing the new towers and I am either aiming for the low-end or mid-range....
 
Overall, I'm glad they finally got new PM's out the door. But 5k for the top end system is insane. I busted out laughing when I read that. Unless it comes w/a 17" Studio Display and a 20gig iPod that rig is a complete rip off. Apple has NO comp hardware that is worth that much money.

I just hope Apple comes out w/some serious x86 butt kicking hardware at MWSF so we can get some real speed and Apple can disconinue the "Type-R" strategy that they are using now.


Lethal
 
Re: What about pro mouse/keyboard?

Originally posted by ImAlwaysRight
Has anyone else noticed that Apple includes absolutely no (zero) keyboards nor mice in their photographs of the new G4 PowerMac? I'm curious if the color of the new keyboards will be white or black. I'd guess white given the rumors of black has been EOL'ed.
Click to expand...

Keyboard and mouse are included in the Quicktime VR.
 
G4 bus

If you look at apples architecture, each proccessor has its own 167 bus to it, then the DDR cache for each processor. This makes the data transfer to the processors operate at DDR speeds. :D

Also, Jaguar has even more enhancements for symmetic processing and preemtive multitasking. ;)

To address the cache vs. bus issue, more cache will help if your doing high end graphics or gene research, but a faster bus makes the less tasking even application (even games) faster. :cool:
 
Hmmmm...


• Power Mac G4 Dual 867MHz w/133MHz system bus
• 256MB PC2100 DDR SDRAM - 1 DIMM
• 80GB Ultra ATA drive
• Optical 1 - Combo Drive (DVD/CD-RW)
• Optical 2 - None
• ATI Radeon 9000 Pro dual-display w/64MB DDR
• Apple Pro Keyboard - U.S. English
• Mac OS - U.S. English

$1,820.00

---------

• Power Mac G4 Dual 1GHz w/167MHz system bus
• 256MB PC2700 DDR SDRAM - 1 DIMM
• 80GB Ultra ATA drive
• Optical 1 - Combo Drive (DVD/CD-RW)
• Optical 2 - None
• ATI Radeon 9000 Pro dual-display w/64MB DDR
• Apple Pro Keyboard - U.S. English
• Mac OS - U.S. English

$2,270.00

Surely a 133Mhz increase and a slightly faster bus is not worth $450! :eek:

I could get an iPod with the difference! :eek:
 
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