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New Surface Pro 4 Ad Takes on Apple's 'What's a Computer?' iPad Pro Campaign

Michael Goff said:
Cook needs to go up to Federighi and tell him to fix his crappy iWork software. It needs to be feature complete, comparative with how Office is today. Heck, they haven't update it in how long?
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big thank you for your words!
I wrote several feedback mails to apple about iwork and they dont listen.
The OSX Version is nice (could have more features tough).

Missing Features:
- Data Duplication Filter
- Easy Header Filter/sort
- Filter on iOS VErsions (what a joke, you can just activate/deactivate filter, but not set one)
- side by side comparison of spreadsheets (on iOS! Workaround, open 2nd Numbers File in a file manager app like Documents -- joke!!!)
...
 
konqerror said:
The fundamental problem is those apps are iPhone apps scaled up. They have the same core functionality as an iPhone app.

The question is, is it easier for a developer to take a desktop app and modify the UI to make it touch-compatible, or is it easier for them to port all the features of the desktop app into a mobile app? The answer, from a developer perspective is the former.
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That is a very valid question, but how many developers are actually doing it? A quick comparison of the apps available in the Windows Store versus the App Store shows that the answer is "not many".
 
I am an Apple guy, but Microsoft is correct. The iPad PRO is just a large iphone with a stylus.
 
Ghost31 said:
It's hard to have conversations about this because you get stuck generalizing uses and how many people use what. And for what purpose. It's like when politicians repeat the same tired "Americans want THIS thing" as if they can speak on behalf of all Americans.
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You don't need to worry about how many people use what. 15% do app dev, 25% do graphic design, etc. That's all meaningless. It's just a matter of how many people don't want to do anything that the iPad can't do. And that number is not zero, but it's small enough that Timmy sounds like an idiot when they makes fun of anyone who wants to buy a computer.

And politicians just want to confuse things :).
 
spinedoc77 said:
Games are actually better on the surface series, let's see those ipad owners enjoy Fallout 4, GTA V, Skyrim, etc etc. But his comment is short sighted. Microsoft has made so many inroads for touch use in the OS, but also in their programs such as Office. Other companies also have done this, with a prime example being Photoshop. But as I asserted before, if you are getting down to real work you are going to want a mouse anyway, and probably a larger screen/keyboard. I've repeatedly put out the challenge to find me which app on iOS didn't have a counterpart on windows in some form and no one was able to find anything, although I'm sure some do exist. There may be functional differences, but I believe either side would have its own set of shortcomings.
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The Surface's greatest advantage is also its greatest hindrance because app developers don't have much incentive to exploit its benefits. If you're a developer and you have to choose how to allocate your programming resources, are you going to invest in a touch-enabled interface that benefits maybe 5% of your user base, or new functionality that benefits the full 100%? Huge companies like Adobe have resources to spare to address niche markets, but most developers do not.

It's like this with the games you mentioned. Sure, a Surface can play those games. But how many of those games were written with Windows tablets in mind? If one wants to play keyboard+mouse games then they can get a gaming laptop with better graphics performance for FAR less than the cost of a comparable i7-equipped SP4. if you're that much into gaming then you probably already have an X-Box or PlayStation that does a better job than either of these.

This segways nicely into your challenge of finding an iOS app without a Windows equivalent. If it's just a matter of ticking every box on a feature list, then you make a valid point. But factor in the user experience and the tables turn for many apps. If it didn't then the tablet wouldn't have a reason for being.
 
Here's a riddle for Timothy: Assuming one only has the iPad Pro because obviously it's the perfect computer replacement, how does one import their entire CD collection to their iPad Pro?
 
I don't really want the iPad to replace my computer, but i;m a designer, so it'd make no sense. I had a Surface Pro for 2 weeks, but hated the OS so i sold it. Unless Microsoft computers start running Apple's OS, i don't care what it can do
 
vertical smile said:
Well, MS is right about the Surface being more of a traditional computer than the iPad Pro.

But, the Surface is not a replacement for a desktop. The iPad Pro doesn't come close.
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How's that? My SP3 and now SP4 replaced my desktop just fine. It drives 32" 4k display at 60hz and all my peripherals via the Surface Dock (which unfortunately is limited in its ability to drive two 4k displays at 60hz, grrrrr, but otherwise is great) and does everything my desktop was doing and more. I have virtualized entire server labs on it via Hyper-V. Now if Intel could just get the friggin video issues under win10 fixed - atrocious.
 
jonnyo said:
The Surface's greatest advantage is also its greatest hindrance because app developers don't have much incentive to exploit its benefits. If you're a developer and you have to choose how to allocate your programming resources, are you going to invest in a touch-enabled interface that benefits maybe 5% of your user base, or new functionality that benefits the full 100%? Huge companies like Adobe have resources to spare to address niche markets, but most developers do not.

It's like this with the games you mentioned. Sure, a Surface can play those games. But how many of those games were written with Windows tablets in mind? If one wants to play keyboard+mouse games then they can get a gaming laptop with better graphics performance for FAR less than the cost of a comparable i7-equipped SP4. if you're that much into gaming then you probably already have an X-Box or PlayStation that does a better job than either of these.

This segways nicely into your challenge of finding an iOS app without a Windows equivalent. If it's just a matter of ticking every box on a feature list, then you make a valid point. But factor in the user experience and the tables turn for many apps. If it didn't then the tablet wouldn't have a reason for being.
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Yeah I don't fully disagree with you at all. But you have to look at the surface device as a sum of its parts. Yes a gaming laptop can play games better, but do I want to lug around a 10lb laptop and brick with me? Do I want to carry my xbox of PS4 with me when I travel? It already has a keyboard and I can simply pack in a mouse, but there are also programs which let you create and customize onscreen buttons which work well. Plus you still have a decent amount of tablet optimized games in the store. It's amazing to me to have all that power and functionality in such a small package, even with its warts.

I agree also on development, but with the way Microsoft has fixed the UI and DPI many legacy programs actually work pretty decently with touch, or only need minor changes and not major rewrites. Devs will go where the money is, and the surface line has been a great success so I'm sure there is some motivation there, but we'll have to see where that goes.

I also agree on apps and the user experience being a plus. For me there are many examples of when an app is the worse choice, due to limited functionality or a poor UI. Makes me appreciate my surface because many programs trounce their app counterparts and I have the choice. Heck if all else fails I can just install Android on to it and run Android apps, life with choice is nice.
 
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pika2000 said:
Hardware wasn't there? What are you talking about? The Surface Pro has had all the main features from day 1, pen + touch screen, compact form factor, and removable (sold separately) keyboard. Each rev is just a refinement (better internals, tweaked design, etc). Overall, it's still the same concept from 1 to 4. MS thought they could fight the iPad, and it didn't work because as a tablet, the Surface is truly lacking. MS finally did the smarter move by positioning the SP against Macbooks. Against traditional laptops, the Surface Pro has a fighting chance, and it worked.

Now, going back against the iPad is not wise. It will only remind people how lacking the SP is as a tablet.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_(2012_tablet)
I own it

PRO came one year after it.
 
Carlanga said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_(2012_tablet)
I own it.
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Yeah, but the RT was a bit lacking, wasn't it? It was thicker and heavier, used a 16:9 aspect ratio (horrible for tablets) without anywhere near the app selection to compensate for its design shortcomings.

I'd say that the Surface line didn't become truly good until the SP3/4. It's not as nice a pure tablet as the iPad, I'd consider it more a laptop, but it can handle some tablet tasks fairly well in a pinch. I use my SP4 to read books at night, and I'll occasionally jump into the app version of Word to change a few things here and there.

Anyway, to get somewhat on topic...

My person opinion of the tiny computer scene is that the 10 inch iPad Pro is your best bet if you want something feather light and super portable with stylus support, and the SP4 if you want a light, small PC that can work as a tablet on occasion.

The 12 inch iPad? It's the worst of both worlds, not really offering anything compelling by itself. The biggest tragedy is that the hardware has enough power to compete with the Surfaces, but Apple continues to hamstring the software for the sake of so called convenience.
 
Zirel said:
Do you expect people to believe that?

Are you telling me an infrastructure engineer can use a tiny 12" screen?

the bare minimum is 22", dual almost a necessity!

If they are going to use it docked, then what's the point in buying an underpowered and expensive laptop that says it's a tablet?
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it's called a work flow. they take the surface pro 4 on meetings, view drawings on the go, open up revit models at meetings (via a projector).

look at spread sheets etc.

and when it comes to structural analysis programs, they slot it into the surface dock and boom they have two big screens.

so call me a liar all you like, but this is the current workflow in my office.

of course when it comes to the actual grunt work I still use a workstation, but my manager just got a Dell xps and revit works like a champ (minus it took forever to get the resolution to work with revit 2016).

so we are thinking of getting more XPS 15's.
 
Renzatic said:
Yeah, but the RT was a bit lacking, wasn't it? It was thicker and heavier, used a 16:9 aspect ratio (horrible for tablets) without anywhere near the app selection to compensate for its design shortcomings.

...
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Correct that is why I said at the beginning they tried to compete w the iPad but win rt failed hard and they had to unify everything. Nevertheless it feels solid and well built; feels more deluxe than any Apple portable device I have owned. The flap to hold it is overrated though since you can't adjust the incline. As far as the ratio surpringly I like it for reading more than the 10" w the more standard ratio format. Good for movies as well.

IMHO SP4 is a better overall tablet than the iPad Pro. If all you care about is using the pencil then the iPad would be a better choice. If apple brings a $500 10" tablet w pencil support then it can bring more excitement to the tablet line and more sales.
 
finally, this is the best AD ever. Even Microsoft gets it !!!!!!

I wonder why no one has fired Timmy and replaced the entire board yet
 
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